The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kreiberg.ole/1996/kreiberg.0696


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Jun  5 02:05:26 PDT 1996
Article: 30911 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Communism and Multiracialism
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:08:59 +0100
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In article <31A62483.3F06@scott.net>, evil Beavis  wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg wrote:
>> 
>> In article <4nq94f$ag2@aphex.direct.ca>, Cthulhu wrote:
>> >In article <4npm2s$a0v@news-e2b.gnn.com>, MITIDUX1@gnn.com (Nope) wrote:
>> >>If this is'nt the biggest pile of liberal politically correct
>> >>bullshit I have ever heard. Karen you need to wake up and take a
>> >>look around, you are talking about a perfect world which will never
>> >>happen.
>> >
>> >YOU are preventing the perfect world from happening. YOU are standing in the
>> >way of progress.
>> >
>>   You speak like Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot. They also believed that they
>> just have to remove some people standing in the way of progress. So they
>> finished off millions of people and what did they accomplish? Some kind
>> of perfection? And what about Hitler? He believed that if he just got all
>> those Jews standing in the way of progress deported, he would be able to
>> create a perfect Germany. I think that you are exposing the totalitarian
>> nature of antiracialism. Thank you for that.
>> 
>> OLK
>> --
>
>You are not suggesting the murder of millions by saying that 
>multiculturalism is progress and that it should be encouraged. It is 
>racists that tend to view everything in fatalistic terms and see every 
>damn issue as a "war" for their values! Waco, Montana, 3rd Reich etc., 
>etc.
>
>eB

  Communism like multiracialism are based on the dream and the illusion 
that the obvious differences and inequalities of men originate from 
enviroment and not heredity. According to these two ideologies it is 
possible remove the inherent human differences through progress. This is 
however against the laws of nature and will always end in either tyranny and 
madness (communism) or chaos and decline (multiracialism). Communism and
multiracialism are both bogus ideologies based on an impossible dream of
a happy brotherhood of man.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun  6 13:02:25 PDT 1996
Article: 21710 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Some Quotations about the Race Question
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:55:16 +0100
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In article <4onl1j$6gi@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:
>In fact, what you did bugs me so much I'm posting my response here,
>too.
>
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
> 
> And although Coon does not say so, there were *many* critics of his
> theory of human evolution (which entailed the racial superiority of
> "whites") who *were* physical anthropologists, including Sherwood
> Washburn and Ashley Montagu, both of whom were very vocal in the
> *scientific* criticisms of Coon's argument.

Hm Ashly Montagu (born Israel Ehrenberg) says the following on 
page 66 in "The Anatonomy on controversy, part two":

"It is a fact that such recognitions [statistical results] cannot have
any meaning of this simple reason that all men by virtue of their
human nature have the right to be given every opportunity to fulfil 
themselves. No results neither from the scientific anthropology, the 
ethnology nor from psychological tests can by no means have influence 
on this principle which is a ethical principle"
(I have translated the above English from a German translation. I am sorry 
that I could not find the original one). 

  He admits that his arguments are rather based on ethics than pure science.


> 
> It is also noteworthy that, today, most introductions to human
> evolution still include discussion of Coon's basic argument about
> the evolution of modern humans, i.e., that Homo sapiens emerged from
> Homo erectus in a number of different parts of the world, rather than
> in a single location.  This idea, however, is not well-supported by
> the accumulating fossil and biochemical (mitochondrial DNA) evidence.
> Given the lack of support, it is no small wonder that Coon's corollary
> argument about the earlier emergence of "whites"/Europeans and their
> alleged superiority does not merit serious discussion.
>  
Carleton S. Coon wrote in 1962 (The Origins Of Races) p.18:

" I am making these statements not for any political or social purpose but
merely to show that, were it not for the mechanism cited above, men would 
not be black, white, yellow, or brown. We would all be light khaki, for 
there has been enough gene flow the clinal* regions of the world during the
last half millions yaers to have homogenized us all had that been the 
evolutionary scheme of things, and had it not been advantageous to each of 
the geographical races for it to retain, for the most part, the adaptive 
elements in its genetic status quo.
  This status quo entails not only the variations in bones and teeth that
are evident in fossil man, and those of the surface features of living men, 
like skin, hair, lips, and ears, by which we can distinguish races almost 
at a glance, but also subtler differences seen only on the dissecting table    
or through the eyepieces of microscopes. Races differ in the extent and 
manner in which the fine subcutaneous muscles of the lips and cheeks have
become differentiated from the parent mammalian muscle body; in the chemical 
composition of hair and of bodily secretions, including milk; in the ways
in which different endocrines: in certain details of the nervous system,  
as, for example, how far down in the lumbar vertebrae the neural canal 
extends; and in the capacity of individuals to tolerate crowding and
stress.
  In studying racial differences in living men, physical anthropologists 
are now relying less and less on anthropometry and more and more on 
research in blood groups, hemoglobins, and other biochemical features.
This is all to the good because the inheritance of these newly discovered
characteristics can be accurately determined. In them, racial differences 
have been found, differences just as the better known and much less 
controversial than the latter in an increasingly race-conscious world. To
me, at least, it is encouraging to know that biochemistry divides us into 
the same subspecies that we have long recognized on the basis of other
criteria"

*A cline is defined as "a region of racial transition, a frontier-in-depth
within which a subspecies [or what is commonly called a race] grades into
another through intermediate forms",


OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun  6 13:05:51 PDT 1996
Article: 31207 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Some Quotations about the Race Question
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 21:20:43 +0100
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In article <4onl1j$6gi@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:
>In fact, what you did bugs me so much I'm posting my response here,
>too.
>
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
> 
> And although Coon does not say so, there were *many* critics of his
> theory of human evolution (which entailed the racial superiority of
> "whites") who *were* physical anthropologists, including Sherwood
> Washburn and Ashley Montagu, both of whom were very vocal in the
> *scientific* criticisms of Coon's argument.

Hm Ashly Montagu (born Israel Ehrenberg) says the following on 
page 66 in "The Anatonomy on controversy, part two":

"It is a fact that such recognitions [statistical results] cannot have
any meaning of this simple reason that all men by virtue of their
human nature have the right to be given every opportunity to fulfil 
themselves. No results neither from the scientific anthropology, the 
ethnology nor from psychological tests can by no means have influence 
on this principle which is a ethical principle"
(I have translated the above English from a German translation. I am sorry 
that I could not find the original one). 

  He admits that his arguments are rather based on ethics than pure science.


> 
> It is also noteworthy that, today, most introductions to human
> evolution still include discussion of Coon's basic argument about
> the evolution of modern humans, i.e., that Homo sapiens emerged from
> Homo erectus in a number of different parts of the world, rather than
> in a single location.  This idea, however, is not well-supported by
> the accumulating fossil and biochemical (mitochondrial DNA) evidence.
> Given the lack of support, it is no small wonder that Coon's corollary
> argument about the earlier emergence of "whites"/Europeans and their
> alleged superiority does not merit serious discussion.
>  
Carleton S. Coon wrote in 1962 (The Origins Of Races) p.18:

" I am making these statements not for any political or social purpose but
merely to show that, were it not for the mechanism cited above, men would 
not be black, white, yellow, or brown. We would all be light khaki, for 
there has been enough gene flow the clinal* regions of the world during the
last half millions yaers to have homogenized us all had that been the 
evolutionary scheme of things, and had it not been advantageous to each of 
the geographical races for it to retain, for the most part, the adaptive 
elements in its genetic status quo.
  This status quo entails not only the variations in bones and teeth that
are evident in fossil man, and those of the surface features of living men, 
like skin, hair, lips, and ears, by which we can distinguish races almost 
at a glance, but also subtler differences seen only on the dissecting table    
or through the eyepieces of microscopes. Races differ in the extent and 
manner in which the fine subcutaneous muscles of the lips and cheeks have
become differentiated from the parent mammalian muscle body; in the chemical 
composition of hair and of bodily secretions, including milk; in the ways
in which different endocrines: in certain details of the nervous system,  
as, for example, how far down in the lumbar vertebrae the neural canal 
extends; and in the capacity of individuals to tolerate crowding and
stress.
  In studying racial differences in living men, physical anthropologists 
are now relying less and less on anthropometry and more and more on 
research in blood groups, hemoglobins, and other biochemical features.
This is all to the good because the inheritance of these newly discovered
characteristics can be accurately determined. In them, racial differences 
have been found, differences just as the better known and much less 
controversial than the latter in an increasingly race-conscious world. To
me, at least, it is encouraging to know that biochemistry divides us into 
the same subspecies that we have long recognized on the basis of other
criteria"

*A cline is defined as "a region of racial transition, a frontier-in-depth
within which a subspecies [or what is commonly called a race] grades into
another through intermediate forms",


OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Jun  9 13:26:00 PDT 1996
Article: 31613 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revolution.counter
Subject: Stalin on Soviet capital punishment for anti-semitism
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 19:53:51 +0100
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  In a reply to an enquiry from a Jewish News Agency in the USA Joseph 
Stalin wrote on the 12th January 1931: (translated from a Danish translation
published by a Danish Stalinist communist organisation back in 1978.)

  In reply to your request:

  National- and race-chauvinism are relics from the misanthropic customs
which were characteristic of the age of cannibalism. Anti-semitism is an
extreme form of race-chauvinism, the most dangerous relic of cannibalism.

  Anti-semitism benefit the exploiters as a lightning conductor that
wards off the blows that the working people makes against capitalism. 
The anti-semitism is a danger for the working people like a dead end which 
leads away from the right track and makes them lose their way in the 
Jungle. Therefore communists, as consistent internationalists, can only be  
uncompromising, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

  In the USSR anti-semitism is punished, as a phenomenon in deep conflict
with the Soviet society, with the maximum penalty. Active anti-semites 
can according to Soviet law be punished with death.

                                                 Yours Faithfully,

                                                 J. Stalin
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Jun 14 09:10:12 PDT 1996
Article: 32240 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Communism and multiracialism (A quotation)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:04:21 +0100
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 Israel Cohen, a leading communist in England, in his A Racial Program For 
 Twenties Century from 1912 wrote:
 "We must realize that our Party's most powerful weapon is racial tension.
 By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries
 they have been oppressed by the whites, we can mould them to the program 
 of the Communist Party. In America, we will aim for subtle victory. While  
 inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will instill into the
 whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid
 the Negroes to rise to prominence in every walk of life, in the professions
 and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro 
 will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will
 deliver America into our hands"
    
OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Jun 15 15:08:53 PDT 1996
Article: 32443 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Thank You, Ole Kreiberg, For Proving Stalin Death Penalty for Anti-Semitism
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:37:11 +0100
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In article <4pg2no$fpf@molokini.conterra.com>, bob whitaker  wrote:

>    I point out that self-styled "anti-racists" are actually 
>anti-white".  They keep indicating that massive immigration and 
>miscegenation from the third world into Majority white 
>countries will solve what they call "the race problem".  By 
>this, they NEVER mean that immigration and miscegenation will 
>remove blacks from beibng the race of Africa, or Mongoloids 
>from being the race of most of Asia.
>     No way.  When so-called "anti-racists" say "solve the race 
>problem", they mean "solve the WHITE problem".  I wish more of 
>us would keep pointing that out.
>     Thanks again.  
>

So true, so true.

OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Jun 15 15:43:06 PDT 1996
Article: 77175 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:04:17 +0100
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In article <31C068D0.7AB1@scott.net>, evil Beavis  wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg wrote:
>> 
>>   You may wonder what the discussion of race has to do with the European
>> Union. However the European Union has issued a directive in order to
>> control the thoughts of the citizens of the Union concerning race.
>> Furthermore on the 19th March this year the ministers of justice and
>> internal affairs agreed on a common action against those citizens who
>> express views which deviate from those guidelines dictated by the
>> European Union. The European Union has dictated that all citizens
>> must believe in the multi-ethnic society or go to prison. Dissident views
>> on atrocities commited by the Germans during WW2 will not be tolerated
>> either. All citizens are ordered to believe in the holocaust.
>> 
>> 
>> OLK
>> --
>
>Really, you go to jail if you don't believe in the holocaust or 
>multiculturalism?? 

 In Germany you do, and the Germans are working hard through the 
European Union to export their legislation to the other European nations. 
You see the Germans are too cowardly to take the full responsibility for 
what they did or did not do to the Jews during WW2. They want to make it 
look like it is was the "Europeans" who committed the socalled holocaust and 
not only the Germans. They want to tyrannize the rest of Europe with their 
miserable past. In Denmark, so far, all the politicians from the right to the 
extreme left refuse to see the history of WW2 from a German perpective, and 
they have therefore rejected pressure from the German government to legislate
about what the historical truth is. Allthough very few Danes agree with
my revisionist views on the holocaust, all of them however identify 
themselves with Danish history. According to Danish history Denmark was 
invaded by a wellknown historical enemy in 1940. This was experienced as
a humiliation. The nazi ideology was experienced as "Kraut stuff" and 
something alien to Danish culture and mentality. No Danes participated
in any actions against the Jews, and some Danes even helped the Jews to
escape to Sweden. Even all the Jews agree that Danish people did not 
do any harm to them during WW2.  Remember, that Hitler said several times 
that National Socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for export. 

 It is distortion of history to say that the holocaust teaches us what 
people are able to do against people. No, it only teaches us what the 
Germans are able to do when they are worst. 

>I think it is rather you can get arrested if you run 
>around screaming heil hitler and offending people whose ancestors 

 Have you never heard about the Guenther Deckert case or the Hans Schmidt
case. The latter is a German born naturalized American citizens. After he 
had been on a short visit to Germany in order to visit his sick old mother 
in Germany, he was arrested by the German police on August 9 before his
departure from Franfurt Airport and held in custody for several monthes. 
His thought-crime was that he had sent a letter to Rudy Geil, a member of 
the upper house (Bundesrat) of Germany's parliament, at his home in Schwerin. 
 The "crime" was that he had used the word "infested" (verseuchten) in 
connection with freemasons and Jews. Concerning German justice it can
sometimes be difficult to see the difference between the Federal Republic of
Germany and the former DDR (East-Germany). 

 I do not feel that I owe the Germans or Jews something and I will 
certainly say whatever it suits me about the holocaust - no matter how much 
the German government and it's European Union are trying to bully me. What 
Germany did not succeed in on the battle field in WW1 and WW2 it will try 
to accomplish through the European Union, and that is German hegemony over 
the rest of Europe. German history is already more important than the 
history of the other european countries according to the European Union. 

 Please note that there is no laws prohibiting denial of British or French 
atrocities committed in all of those big empires where the British and 
the French people once were the undisputed masterraces. Who cares about that 
one fifth of Boer population in Transvaal in South Africa died in British 
concentrations camps during the Boerwar, or that one fifth of the Algerian 
civilian population were killed by the brutal Frenchmen in the Algerian war. 
And what about the treatment of the Red Indian population in Latinamerica 
by the Spanish. You can deny all that as much as you want, because England, 
France and Spain are not so important as Germany, and Boers, Arabs, and Red   
Indians are not as importants as Jews. So simple is that according to German
logic.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Jun 15 17:54:42 PDT 1996
Article: 77210 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: 66 Fragen und Antworten ueber den Holocaust - 66tys0.wps (1/1)
Date: 14 Jun 1996 21:06:25 GMT
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100322.722@compuserve.com (Tomas Schild) writes:

>"Guess who" postete, bezeichnenderweise anonym, hier eine
>altbekannte Neonazischrift namens
>"66 Fragen und Antworten ueber den Holocaust".

Du luegst. Diese Schrift hat nichts mit Nazismus zu tun. 

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Jun 16 11:40:59 PDT 1996
Article: 77271 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 10:02:06 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:3951 soc.culture.nordic:45945 soc.culture.german:77271

In article <4pupj2$sum@sol.caps.maine.edu>, Scott Erb wrote:
>In article <1RgmnOev1uU4065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk says...
>>
> 
>>You see the Germans are too cowardly to take the full responsibility for 
>>what they did or did not do to the Jews during WW2. They want to make it 
>>look like it is was the "Europeans" who committed the socalled holocaust 
>>and not only the Germans.
>
>You continue to be a liar, Ole.  The Germans take full responsibility for 
>the holocaust, and have never, ever tried to claim it was the "Europeans" 
>who are to blame. 
 
 If it is so, why are they bothering the Danes about the Holocaust.

>Furthermore, the laws against neo-nazi activity (note, 
>they don't control what you THINK -- another of your lies -- but what you 
>DO) are evidence that this is something they take very seriously. To try to 
>claim otherwise is simply ridiculous.
>
>> It is distortion of history to say that the holocaust teaches us what 
>>people are able to do against people. No, it only teaches us what the 
>>Germans are able to do when they are worst. 
>
>Are you saying that Germans are not people?  That Germans at their worst act 
>differently than other people at their worst?  

  The Germans are much more passionate, bordering the fanatic, than 
Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxon people. Let us assume that the holocaust did 
happen. In that case such an act could only be made out of extreme fanatism. 
The development of such fanatism would be unthinkable in Denmark. 

>What basis do you make for 
>this claim?  How are Germans fundamentally different from Danes?  Do no 
>Danes at their worst ever kill, abuse or torture other people?  

 Experience from the real world and thousand years of history proves that
the Danes have never done something like the alleged holocaust. They never 
become frenzied like the choleric Germans. They understand how to control 
themselves. Remember you are innocent until otherwise proved.

>Have they 
>ever in the past? I know Americans are capable of everything Germans did.  

  Have you got any evidence for this accusation against the American people 
>from  the real world? Your statement is defamation and slander against the 
American people.

>>His thought-crime was that he had sent a letter to Rudy Geil,
>
>er, Ole, sending a letter is an ACT.  

Sure, sending a letter is certainly not a crime in a true democracy.

>It is not a THOUGHT.  

  In a true democracy you have the right to express your thoughts freely. 
Take a look on section 77 in the Danish constitution. 
  

>I am not 
>surprised that you don't recognize what thought is, since you seem not to do 
>much thinking before posting.
>
>> The "crime" was that he had used the word ...
>
>Again, using a word is an act, not a thought.  One can disagree with these 
>laws, but to pretend they are "thought crimes" is simply wrong.  I suggest 
>you try to make your case against such laws with accurate labels.
>
>>Indians are not as importants as Jews. So simple is that according to German
>>logic.
>
>No, that's according to Ole's weird way of conceptualizing history.  You 
>have to remember that German laws about denying the holocaust or engaging 
>in neo-nazi activity were made right after the evil racist regime (those 
>words, evil and racist, belong together in virtually all cases, by the way) 
>had subverted democracy and instituted an ideology which became a state 
>psuedo-religion.  De-nazifaction was necessary.  

  It is their problem, and they have no right to bother Danes with their 
history.

>difference is that if you do the latter, people will simply laugh you off, if 
>you do the former, you usually have some evil ulterior motive, and may be a 
>danger to freedom.

  An evil ulterior motive? Yes, If you are paranoid you may believe so. It is 
true that the neo-nazis support revisionism, but they only constitute a 
minority of the revisionists. To me it does not mean that much whether or not
the holocaust happened. What really matters are the attempts to gag free 
speech.  

>
>As an American, I personally believe in free speech, and think that Germany 
>and other EU states have a strong enough democratic system to warrant 
>liberalizing those laws.  However, one can agree with the position that those 
>laws are wrong (and EU laws of such a sort would be ill advised as well) 
>without buying into the bizarre and illogical rhetorical fantasy of yours.
>-scott
>
  This is the way an American or a Dane think, but the Germans with their 
authoritarian mentality think differently. Germany of today is just as big 
a danger to democracy in the European countries as it was in 1939. The 
German problem was not solved with the German defeat in WW2. You simply 
cannot change the character of the Germans. Let me give you an example.  
Twice when I have written something to soc.culture.german that some Germans 
did not like, they have sent complaints to my postmaster. Running home to 
their mother crying or complaining to an authority when things become a 
little rough instead of taking up the challenge, is typical for Germans.   
I have certainly not met such cowardice from the Danes or Americans I am
usually debating with in other newsgroups. Look at yourself. You are
an American and you take up the challenge when I post something against you,
instead of chicken out and seeking protection and security from some 
allmighty authority, postmaster, great Fuehrer or what ever. Face it
the Germans are Germans and will always be. It will be over my dead body
that I submit to their will and stop expressing dissident views on the 
holocaust or anything else.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Jun 16 20:15:29 PDT 1996
Article: 77305 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:52:36 +0100
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In article <4q13rt$1geg@sol.caps.maine.edu>, Scott Erb wrote:
>In article , olk@login.dknet.dk says...
>
>>  The Germans are much more passionate, bordering the fanatic, than 
>>Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxon people. Let us assume that the holocaust did 
>>happen. In that case such an act could only be made out of extreme fanatism. 
>>The development of such fanatism would be unthinkable in Denmark. 
>
>Really?  If it had happened in Denmark, I suspect the Germans would say it 
>would be unthinkable in Germany.  

But things like that would never happen in Denmark, period.

>It's easy to assume that you wouldn't do 
>what someone else does.  But, of course, I reject the whole notions that 
>Germans are somehow "by nature" so different.  I've lived in Germany, I've 
>visited Scandinavia a few times, and I've lived in Italy and (mostly) the 
>U.S.  I fail to see any essential differences between the peoples, esp. in 
>terms of "bordering on the fanatic," though Italy does have a different set 
>of cultural norms.  Denmark and Germany are quite similar.
>                    
>> Experience from the real world and thousand years of history proves that
>>the Danes have never done something like the alleged holocaust.
>
>"Alleged?"  Well, Ole, if it didn't happen than your whole argument about the 
>Germans is wrong.  

Sure, either the holocaust happened, and the Germans were exceptional evil, 
or it did nor happen, which I believe, and the Germans were not exceptional
evil. Being a nice guy I really want to think nice about other people, even 
the Germans. :-)
>
>You have a contradiction that destroys both sides of your 
>argument!
>
>>  Have you got any evidence for this accusation against the American people 
>>from the real world? Your statement is defamation and slander against the 
>>American people.
>
>Yawn.  Genocide against the native Americans perhaps?  A mini low tech 
>holocaust.  Sound familar?  Other activities in the Third World weren't much 
>better.  I'd suggest to the book by Michael Hunt "Ideology and Foreign 
>Policy."  For a look at colonialism, check out David Spurr's "The Rhetoric of 
>Empire."  In any event, here in America we can be very critical of our 
>history and past actions without considering it slander and defamation of 
>'the American people.'
>
>>Sure, sending a letter is certainly not a crime in a true democracy.
>
>Sending letters with various contents can be.  For instance, if you send a 
>letter with holocaust denying propaganda, you are using the federal 
>government's mail service to deliver your letter. Therefore, you are getting 
>the state directly involved in spreading your propaganda, easily making it 
>something which is far, far outside a thought crime, and something that the 
>state has a right to control.  Even here in the U.S., where freedom of speech 
>is protected, you can't just send anybody anything via the postal service.
>

  In Denmark there is a law which prescribes the secrecy of the mails. The
consequence of this is that the mail services cannot be held responsible for
what their customers mail. Furthermore I have difficulties in understanding 
what holocaust denying "propaganda" has to do with crime. To me the German 
laws against dissident views on the holocaust are nothing but political
repression and expose the wicked nature of the German society.


>>  In a true democracy you have the right to express your thoughts freely. 
>>Take a look on section 77 in the Danish constitution. 
>
>Can you stand up in a movie theater and yell "fire, fire"?  Can you go to the 
>airport and tell the security people that you think that hijacking is OK, and 
>you may do it sometime, and joke that you might have a gun with you?  There 
>is always a line between thinking and acting to express those thoughts.  Not 
>every form of expression is legal any where.  Lines are just drawn 
>differently.

  But I can certainly say, as much as I like, that I do not believe that it 
was technical possible to kill and cremate 6 million Jews as quickly and in 
the way described in the established historiography. 

> 
>>  It is their problem, and they have no right to bother Danes with their 
>>history.
>
>You're the only one who seems bothered.  Therefore, I suggest it is YOUR 
>problem.

  All the Danish politicians find it inaprobiate to legislate about German 
history in Denmark. A group of Danes once wanted to have the tiny Danish 
naziparty prohibited, but even the leader those anti-nazis said to the 
Danish television that he thought that it was a human right for everybody to 
falsify history. 


OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Jun 16 20:15:30 PDT 1996
Article: 77306 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:02:13 +0100
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In article , Simen Gaure wrote:

>Remember that
>theories of racial purity and supremacy were quite commonplace
>at that time, also in scientific circles.  That's of course 
>not an excuse for the atrocities, but it's a partial explanation for
>why such ideas could spread.  That's the most important lesson,
>and, with the advent of modern "racial purity" practices like human
>gene diagnostics, euthanasia etc, the lesson should never be forgotten.
>
  It is purely political propaganda to claim that ideas of racial purity
automatically leads to massmurders or similiar events. It would be just
as wrong as to claim that ideas of social justice and better conditions for 
the working class automatically leads to camps and killings as those of 
Stalin and Pol Pot. Or to claim that religiosity automatically leads to
burning of witches and heritics or religious wars. Like it is not guns 
that kill but rather people with guns that kill, it is not political ideas 
and religions that kill but rather people with political ideas religions
that kill. Heavy passions and fanatism often kill. 

  Therefore I am sick and tired of hearing political propaganda about how 
dangerous nazism is, and if we all just could avoid being nazis or 
"racists" the world would be a much better place. Sure there were many evil 
nazis like there were many evil communists etc., but these people would have 
been evil anyhow. The wickedness would just have found another expression. 
When I hear that the Germans have arrested a man just because he has 
written the word "infested" in a letter I see the same evil Germans who 
worked for the Gestapo or the STASI in the former DDR. I then ask myself, 
will these Germans never stop persecuting and imprisoning each other 
because of dissident views on this and that? Why are they so?

  All the paranoia and hysteria about nazism and the "importance" of
remembering the "holocaust" serve only one real purpose that is as 
political propaganda against the opponents of the immigration from the 
third world to Europe and North America, and those who speak out against 
the multiethnic society. It is propaganda in favour of internationalism.
Anyway the communists were consistent and keen internationalists and 
there still died more people in communist camps than in nazi camps. So why
do you want me to believe that internationalism makes people better than 
nationalism?

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Jun 18 10:53:41 PDT 1996
Article: 32931 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Finnish, Estonians, Hungarians - what about them?
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:35:11 +0100
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In article <01bb5b7a.f160a0c0$49c054a6@globalcenter.net>, Arti Itra wrote:
>Hi,
>
>As they are not Indo-European where would they stand in an Aryan state?
>
>Arti
>
  Racially they are white. Are anyone able to distinguish e.g. a Finn 
racially from a Swede? I guess not. For racialists it is race that counts,
and not language. All the Black Americans speak English which is an Indo-
European language. Does that make them White?

OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Jun 18 10:53:43 PDT 1996
Article: 32961 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Communism and multiracialism (A quotation)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:16:24 +0100
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In article <31c4d69a.197989434@news.concentric.net>, Craig Lambert wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:04:21 +0100, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Israel Cohen, a leading communist in England, in his A Racial Program For 
>> Twenties Century from 1912 wrote:

[snip]

>Is this an original, published work you have seen, or are you quoting this
>from some other source which cites it?  Can you provide more details,
>please?
>

  Sure: the Congressional Record, published by the United States Government 
Printing Office, Proceeding of the House, 1957, page 8559.

OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Jun 18 11:37:12 PDT 1996
Article: 77408 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Eine Antwort zu Tomas Schild (war 66 Fragen und Ant.......)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:26:58 +0100
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>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>>100322.722@compuserve.com (Tomas Schild) writes:
>
>>>"Guess who" postete, bezeichnenderweise anonym, hier eine
>>>altbekannte Neonazischrift namens
>>>"66 Fragen und Antworten ueber den Holocaust".
>
>>Du luegst. Diese Schrift hat nichts mit Nazismus zu tun. 
>
>>Ole Kreiberg
>>--
>
>Ob z.B. die Behauptung, "dass die Deutschen nur solche internierten,
>die eine tatsaechliche oder anzunehmende Gefaerdung der deutschen
>Sache bedeuteten" (Punkt 8 des Textes) und "Die Juden [...] als eine
>umittelbare Existenzbedrohung des nationalsozialistischen deutschen
>Staates betrachtet [wurden], nachdem fast die gesamte kommunistische
>Elite aus Juden bestand." (Punkt 9)  etwas mit Nazismus zu tun haben,
>wird wohl allgemein anders beurteilt als von Herrn Kreiberg. Den 
>Vorwurf der Luege muss ich zurueckweisen.
>
  Die Schrift ist ueber einen Teil der deutsche Geschichte. Es handelt sich 
um die behandlung der Juden von dem dritten Reich, aber die Schrift ist
nicht nationalsocialistisch. Nur ein Minderheit von den Revisionisten 
sind Nazis. Persoenlich glaube ich nicht an den Holocaust, und ich bin 
kein Nationalsocialist. Erinnernen Sie bitte was Hitler gesagt hatte:

"Der Nationalsozialismus kennt nur das Deutschtum, und ihn interessiert 
sonst nichts auf der Welt.
... Die nationalsozialistische Lehre ist, und ich habe das immer wieder
betont, keine Exportware. Sie is nur fuer das deutsche Volk geschaffen." 

(von seiner letzen Rede)

OLK



--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Jun 19 17:25:26 PDT 1996
Article: 77527 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:39:05 +0100
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In article <4q25qq$18qm@sol.caps.maine.edu>, Scott Erb wrote:
>In article , olk@login.dknet.dk says...
>
>>It would be just
>>as wrong as to claim that ideas of social justice and better conditions for 
>>the working class automatically leads to camps and killings as those of 
>>Stalin and Pol Pot. 
>
>Since when did anyone associate Stalin or Pol Pot with ideas of social 
>justice?

  Communists associate themselves with a struggle for social justice and
equality.  Stalin and Pol Pot were believing communist.


>>  Therefore I am sick and tired of hearing political propaganda about how 
>>dangerous nazism is,
>
>It's not propaganda.  It's called truth, Ole.

It ought to be called paranoia. 

>
>>  All the paranoia and hysteria about nazism and the "importance" of
>>remembering the "holocaust" serve only one real purpose that is as 
>>political propaganda against the opponents of the immigration from the 
>>third world to Europe and North America, and those who speak out against 
>>the multiethnic society.
>
>Oh, so you'd rather just forget?  No there are many purposes, including to 
>illustrate the danger of fascist and racist ideology, and to make sure such a 
>thing never happens again.
>
>As for a multiethnic society.  Well, there's no way you're ever going to 
>escape that!  

If everyone think like you, it may be so. But if we decide to fight back
against the undesired the multiethnic society, we can do it.

>The trends point to easier communication and transportation, 
>and diversity will increase.  You may not like it, but c'est la realite.
>
>> It is propaganda in favour of internationalism.
>>Anyway the communists were consistent and keen internationalists and 
>>there still died more people in communist camps than in nazi camps. So why
>>do you want me to believe that internationalism makes people better than 
>>nationalism?
>
>False logic, Ole.  Stalin wasn't an internationalist.  Remember "socialism in 
>one country."  

 But the communist ideology and movement certainly were internationalist.
When the Soviet Union failed to have the communist revolution exported to 
other countries Stalin was forced to accept the idea socialism in one 
country. As soon as he got the chance he had no scruples in installing 
communist governments in all those Eastern European countries which he 
liberated from German occupation. So much for socialism in one country.

>Also, there are many internationalists, and most are 
>non-communist.  So you can't claim that because SOME communists are 
>internationalists, all calls for internationalism will lead to communism.
>

I do not say that all internationalism leads to communism. I just say that
the nature of communism is internalistic.

>In any event, all your whining aside, you're on the losing side of this 
>issue.  Global trends are against you, as is the educated public.  This isn't 
>the EU I'm talking about -- Maastricht may fail, some countries may pull out 
>-- but global society.  We're leaving behind the type of world you yearn for 
>(it may never really have existed).  It may be dangerous, but that's where 
>we're going.  Deal with it.

  This sounds very fatalistic. If you accept it this way it will be so, but
I know that opposition and resistance in the long run will be able blow 
this ugly new world order away. Concerning the poltical correct socalled
educated public I cannot help thinking of the story of the emperor's new
clothes. Your ideas seem to be of the same nature.

OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 20 11:12:27 PDT 1996
Article: 77612 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:10:28 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4084 soc.culture.nordic:45992 soc.culture.german:77612

In article <4q1qe1$9b1@newsgate.dircon.co.uk>, Robert Smith wrote:

>
>We (people in general) are likely to do this when we feel humiliated
>and find politicians and others who play on our fears of 'race'. I
>presume Ole that your are Danish, if so you are no different
>'racially' (by that I mean a common ancestory) from the mixed group of
>german tribes who settled most of north western Europe.

  Hm if you watch it from a pure ethnic point of view the Germans are much
more mixed up with Slavs, Kelts, Baltics and Southern Europeans than the 
Danes. They have preserved their Germanic language but cannot be regarded 
as pure germanic, although they may like to see themselves that way.
>
>I am aware the Danes did what they could for their Jews, but I am also
>aware that some people in the other occupied countries (including the
>Channel Islands) were happy to join the persecution of the Jews. Your
>comments are racist. The Germans are just ordinary North Europeans
>like you and I. When we try to put the blame soley on them it is
>because we are afraid to look in ourselves and find them staring back.

 Hey do you think that North Europeans are more evil than other people
in the world (e.g. Cambodjans and Rwandans). I do not think that many
people here in Denmark feel more guilt toward the alleged holocaust
than a Kenyan or a Chinese. And why should they? Because they have the 
same skincolour as the Germans? I do not think you can sell that "we-are-
all-guilty-in-holocaust-crap" to the Danes. Remember that the Jews 
frequently come running to the Danes claiming that it was no less than the 
whole Danish nation that helped the Danish Jews to escape to Sweden during
WW2. I think that most Danes prefer to buy the latter, if they are going 
to buy some crap in the first place.
						       
OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 20 11:12:29 PDT 1996
Article: 77617 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:31:20 +0100
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In article <31C5FF5E.1932@cam.org>, Achim Recktenwald  wrote:
>Robert Smith wrote:
>> 
>> olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>> 
>> <>
>> >  The Germans are much more passionate, bordering the fanatic, than
>> >Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxon people. Let us assume that the holocaust did
>> >happen. In that case such an act could only be made out of extreme fanatism.
>> >The development of such fanatism would be unthinkable in Denmark.
>> <>
>> 
>
>
>The Germans are actually of Danish heritage. During the migration of nations, I think it was around 
>800 - 600 B.C., they wandered into the present German territory from northern Jutland.
>
>Achim

  Hm, The Danes are supposed have wandered into Denmark from Southern Sweden. 
Those who gave Sweden its name was a North Germanic tribe called Swions. 
They lived to the North and they conquored and subjugated later the Southern 
parts of Sweden. The Danes subjugated those Germanic people already living 
in what today is Denmark (called Herulers by the Danes ) and from which, 
according to some theories, some of those Anglo-Saxons who conquered England 
may have descended. The Danes were the name of a North germanic tribe, and 
Danish is a North Germanic language which have a closer resemblance to 
Swedish and in particular to Norwegian than to German, English and Dutch. 
In language, culture and mentality the Danes are Scandinavians.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Jun 21 23:08:04 PDT 1996
Article: 23528 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: The usual question for the "Reverend" Ron Schoedel
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:56:18 +0100
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In article , Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>Why won't you answer the question, "Reverend":  
>
>
>Have you stopped fucking your dog yet?
>
  Only a sick pervert asks such a question. I have followed your post
for almost a year, and you seem to be much preoccupied with sick fantasies
about the sexlife of other people. Have you ever thought about consulting
a psychiatrist about your problem? What is the purpose of exposing yourself
to the world? Do you get some kicks out of that?

OLK 
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Jun 23 11:58:19 PDT 1996
Article: 33785 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Finnish, Estonians, Hungarians - what about them?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:45:56 +0100
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In article , Eugene Holman wrote:
>In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>> In article <01bb5b7a.f160a0c0$49c054a6@globalcenter.net>, Arti Itra wrote:
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >As they are not Indo-European where would they stand in an Aryan state?
>> >
>> >Arti
>> >
>
>According to dedicated racialists, Finns, Estonians, and especially
>Hungarians are 'white trash', in the same class as Irishmen, Poles,
>Russians, Italians, Frenchmen, Romanians, Greeks, and other people who are
>'white' but not 'White'. Remember the English saying "Wogs start at
>Calais". The sure way to distinguish 'white' (= wog) from 'White' (=
>'Aryan') is to examine the surname: 'unpronounceable' surnames ending in
>vowels can be 'white', but not 'White'. So simple is the world.
>
 Your problem is that you are not able distinguish American White Anglo
Saxon Prostestant chauvinism from pure racialism. It is like the German
nazism which had more the character of German chauvinism. Racialism
was just a tool to support this chauvinism. Seen from a purely racial
point of view there is not much significant racial differences between
Poles and Germans. There is a lot national differences in Europe and that
is something else. There is not much race involved in the conflicts in
e.g. Northern Ireland and the former Yougoslavia. 
>
>>   Racially they are white. Are anyone able to distinguish e.g. a Finn 
>> racially from a Swede? I guess not.
>
>Guessing isn't good enough.
>
>Anthropological taxonomists generally make a distinction between the
>western Finns, who are predominantly 'Nordic' [tall, thin, blue-eyed,
>tendency to have ashen or light brown hair, angular features, long limbs],
>and eastern Finns, who are 'East-Baltic' [shorter, gray-eyed, chubby, more
>rounded features, suggestion of almond-shaped eyes, tendency to have
>'mousey blond' or ruddy hair, shorter limbs]. We find the same division in
>Estonia, with the East-Baltic types predominating in both countries.
>Hungary, with its complex mixture of Alpine, Mediterranean, Balkan, and
>Gypsy strains, is too complex to discuss here.

 Take a look at the Germans and the Austrians. They are a mixture of the 
above-mentioned White subraces. Take a look at Hitler, Goebels and Himmler. 
Were they Nordids? Can you describe in which racial way these three 
Gentlemen racially differ from the average Pole? Anyway all those subraces 
are all _white_, and it is useless to quibble about the possibility that 
some of them may be lesser white than the other. *This is not the case*

>
>At my American university (Cornell in the early 1960s) nobody with a
>Finnish, Estonian, or Hungarian surname could have dreamed of being
>accepted by an elitist 'White' fraternity house such as Alpha Delta Phi or
>Delta Upsilon. This was the cause of more than one suicide as well as
>several nervous breakdowns and dropouts when many a freshman discovered
>that he was 'white' but not 'White'. 

 This is local American problems from decades back. They might have been 
the consequence of the irresponsible American immigration policy in the
19 century and in the beginning of 20 century. The USA was indiscriminately 
overflooded with millions of Europeans and had problems with absorbing so 
many at a time.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Jun 23 12:12:16 PDT 1996
Article: 77802 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:40:53 +0100
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In article <4q8o9a$bvm@sol.caps.maine.edu>, Scott Erb wrote:
>In article <90pnnOev1KfK065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk says...
>
>>  Communists associate themselves with a struggle for social justice and
>>equality.  Stalin and Pol Pot were believing communist.
>
>Christians associate themselves with love and peace.  Yet a lot of 
>Christians have created the crusades, the inquisition, etc.  By your logic, 
>love and peace lead to the crusades and the inquisition.  That's the same 
>type of logic as saying a belief in social justice leads to Stalin and Pol 
>Pot.

 But you have suggested that ideologies of racial purity etc. automatically
lead to genocide, while I am saying that only fanatism leads to masskilling.
Fanatic christianity once lead to crusades, inquisition etc.. Fanatic 
communism and other efforts to create equality lead to phenomenas such 
as the killings fields of cambodja, and the butchering of the French royalty 
and nobelity in connection with the French revolution. Fanatic racists would
of course also be able to commit atrocities. What I am saying is just that
the historiography of the treatment of the Jews during WW2 by the fanatic 
Germans contains heavy exaggerations and distortions. Fanatics of all sorts 
are dangerous not just "racists" and nazis, and some peoples are more  
more predisposed to fanatism than others. In Western Europe I will point out
the Germans and French as particular predisposed to fanatism based on the 
experience of history, and it is exactly the French and the Germans who
are behind the race-directive of the European Union. It is the French and 
the Germans who want to uplift the multiracial ideology and beliefs to holy 
doctrines which it must be made prohibited to express disbelieve in. 
>
>>>>  Therefore I am sick and tired of hearing political propaganda about how 
>>>>dangerous nazism is,
>>>
>>>It's not propaganda.  It's called truth, Ole.
>>
>>It ought to be called paranoia. 
>
>Nazism led to a major war, the destruction of a major power (Germany), the 
>killing of many innocent people due to their political beliefs, religious/
>ethnic background, or refusal to support the regime, and Nazism used methods 
>of terror and chaos.  In the history of humankind, it's hard to find a more 
>dangerous ideology.  

 A lot of evil wars involving Germany have been started without nazism. E.g. 
what about the first world war? Or the 1864 war between Denmark and Germany 
and Austria, in which thousand of Danish soldiers died and Germany robbed 
land from Denmark (compare that to WW2, where only 13 Danish soldiers died
in combat during the invasion of Denmark in 1940)? In my opinion WW2 would 
have started with or without nazism. Please let me quote one of your 
countrymen Major General T.H. Bliss who was an advisor to the American 
President Woodrow Wilson at the time of the Versailles peace negotiations 
after WW1: "Putting 2.1 million Germans under the rule of a nation [Poland] 
which has never demonstrated the capacity for a strong self-government in 
its entire history will, in my opinion, necessary lead to a new war in 
eastern Europe sooner or later". And the English Prime Minister, Lloyd 
George, went to the wall map during the peace nogatiations in Versailles, 
pointed to Danzig and West Prussia and said: "This will be the cause of 
the next war". Or Woodrow Wilson who exclaimed when he discovered that 
millions of Germans lived in Sudetenland awarded to Czechoslovakia: 
"Why, Masaryk (the Czech Prime Minister) did not tell me that."

 My view is that the Versailles Treaty left enough conflict stuff to ignite
the second world war with or without nazism. 

>You are big on making assertions concerning your views.  Your rhetoric is 
>fancy.  But you are the one with a naked argument.  You have no evidence to 
>back up for claims, nothing except vague accusations that the world order is 
>"ugly."  I have economics (free trade, comparative advantage), a belief in 
>freedom and democracy (democracies don't fight each other; freedom is of 
>course normative), the example of the dynamism of the U.S., etc.  

I will soon be back with a translation of a commentary I once had printed in
a Danish social democratic newspaper. Unfortunately I have been quite  
busy the last couple of days.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Jun 24 22:32:50 PDT 1996
Article: 77893 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:28:26 +0100
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In article , Jens S. Larsen wrote:
>Why can't you just stay in alt.revisionism where you belong, Ole?

 Why can't the German government stop bothering Denmark with their miserable
past. The Germans come to Denmark and demand that the Danes by law should be
enforced to think the same way as they do about WW2 and the socalled 
holocaust. So in return I come to them. If they want confrontation with 
Danish citizens I am ready to face them. Had they from the beginning had 
the attitude that only the Germans are responsible for what happened to the
Jews during WW2, and in particular since no Danish citizens are reported to 
have been in any of the alleged extermination camps in Poland either as 
victims or as executioners it is inaprobiate *for Germany* to bother Denmark 
with this part of *its* history. In that case I would never have posted to 
soc.culture.german. What ever Danish citizens think of this and that is 
strickly an internal Danish affair. If Germany absolutely has to bother 
Denmark with events from WW2 they can do something much more aprobiate. 
Germany still owes Denmark more than 1 billion dollars from loans granted 
to Germany during WW2. My message to the German government is: "Pay back 
your debt or keep your mouth shut and mind your own business".

>
>> You see the Germans are too cowardly to take the full responsibility for 
>> what they did or did not do to the Jews during WW2.
>
>Not really, but the nazis are.

 What really happened to the Jews and the people in the countries occupied by
the Germans are the responsibility of the German nation and not just some 
nazis. The silly German government thinks that by punishing some nazis they 
can make it look like it was just those nazis who did this and that. The 
nazis have become scapegoats the same way the Jews were during WW2. The 
Germans punished evil Jews in the past and the evil nazis today and Germany 
will become good. This proves that you cannot change the nature of the 
Germans. Everytime I read that now the Germans have caught another little 
old German man in South America I feel I am going to puke.

>
>> No Danes participated
>> in any actions against the Jews, and some Danes even helped the Jews to
>> escape to Sweden. Even all the Jews agree that Danish people did not 
>> do any harm to them during WW2.  Remember, that Hitler said several times 
>> that National Socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for export. 
>
>Aha.  What was the German army doing in Norway and Greece then?
>Taking a five year vacation? 

 In Greece they were aiding their Italian Ally. The Germans wanted German 
hegemony over Europe but they certainly did not want to nazify the 
non-German part of Europe, because according to their nazi ideology it 
was the Germans and nobody else who were regarded the masterrace. Is that 
clear?

OLK

--
Let me repeat that Hitler said several times that national socialism knows 
only Germany and is not meant for export. His exact words were:

"Der Nationalsozialismus kennt nur das Deutchtum, und ihn interessiert sonst 
sonst nichts auf der Welt..... Die nationalsozialistische Lehre ist, und 
ich habe das wieder betont, keine exportware. Sie ist nur fuer das deutsche
Volk geschaffen".
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 27 10:19:43 PDT 1996
Article: 78016 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:20:31 +0100
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In article , Holger Skok wrote:
>
>However, I'd like to ask you something else.
>
>You have claimed previously, that the holocaust did not happen
>as described in current history books. You claimed that it must
>have been impossible to kill as many people in the given amount 
>of time.
>
>Care to back that up a bit? Sources - Leuchter report, maybe?
>
 And the Walther Lueftl report and the Rudolph Germer report. In the 
homepage of the anti-revisionists, the Nizkor project, you will find the 
innumeral articles that I have posted to alt.revisionism. (see under 
"persons")

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 27 10:19:44 PDT 1996
Article: 78031 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:49:20 -0100
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In article <4qn63k$jcl@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, Tor Slettnes wrote:
>
>Ole - Here you indicate that the Germans have more of a responsibility
>than other Europeans.  That means you believe it happened.
>
>I.e. I think you think it happened - your expressions to the fact that
>history was rewritten by the winners is nothing more than a feeble
>attempt at legitimizing nazism, and hatred of jews.
>
  I think that it is historians and other scientists who should deal 
with the challenge of revision. This dispute has absolutely nothing
to do in courthouses. It is a myth that it is only nazis and anti-semites
that question the holocaust. The most active revisionist in the USA is
Bradley Smith. This guy has been married to a Jewish woman with whom
he has children. Today he is married to a mexican immigrant with whom he
has children too. He works closely together with a Jew by the name David
Cole. David Cole once made a remarkable revisionist movie about Auschwitz. 
The address of Bradley Smith's homepage is http://www.valleynet.com/~brsmith. 
If you want a view of all the controversial as well as the anti-revisonist 
and anti-racist homepages on the internet I can recommend you the homepage 
of Danish antiracist Peter Herngaard http://inet.uni-c.dk/~pethern. 

OLK


--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 27 10:19:45 PDT 1996
Article: 78043 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:33:50 -0100
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In article <4qcdni$nna@suncom.rz.hu-berlin.de>, kai Schirmer wrote:
>Hello,
>
>stop to talk about _the Danes_, _the Germans_, _the Jews_ !!!!!!
>
>That is absolutly incorrect and sounds like Goebbels! 
                   ^^^^^^^^^
 Do you mean political incorrect? Sure I am certainly political incorrect.
In all other Western countries except Germany and few other countries 
political correctness are used derogatory and as a term of abuse.
 
 The Danes have been different from the Germans from time immemorial. Maybe 
national identity may be controversial for German prople because of Hitler's 
extremism and fanatism, but this is not the case in Denmark. The first 
reaction to the German occupation of Denmark in 1940 was an upsurge of 
nationalism and gathering of crowds singing national anthems. You see 
Danish nationalism is often very anti-german, and this did fit very well to 
that particular situation. Anti-german chauvinism is the word used by the
Germans back then to describe it or for that matter further back before 
Hitler even was born. German national pride was smashed in the WW2 while 
the Danish national identity was enhanced by that event. 

OLK

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 27 10:19:46 PDT 1996
Article: 78086 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:41:36 +0100
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In article , Holger Skok wrote:
>The catchy principle behind them simply states: "No freedom for the 
>enemies of freedom!" - a slogan based on the understanding, that the 
>Weimar Republic was just too lenient, allowed too much freedom to those 
>whose only aim it was to destroy the Republic and its freedom along with 
>it.

 But the communists are tolerated. As far as I know there is even in the 
German Parliament a communist party that descents from the old DDR 
(East Germany) communist party. PDS is the name as far as I remember.
My question is the following: "Was DDR a friend or an enemy of freedom
and democracy"?

>So, I am personally undecided. As long as the legal practice is not
>extended to new "thought" crimes - and as far as I can see it isn't,
>the laws should remain in effect. 

 But they should certainly not be enforced upon the neighbouring countries
which have an entirely different history and certainly do not identify
themselves with the cause of Germany. Despite all mumbo jumbo about 
the meaning of the concept "Germanic", Germany was regarded the enemy in 
Denmark during WW2 and long before that for that matter. When I hear the 
old generation speak about the occupation you hear only the word Germans
and Germany. They never say that Denmark was occupied by the nazis but
always the by Germans. Germany and the Germans were the enemies and nazism
was just one their attributes at that time. Had the Germans been something 
else, even democrats, they would certainly have been hated as well. Therefore 
it is in my opinion of no use trying to say that it was the nazis who were 
responsible for the occupation of Denmark and all the other countries when 
it really was the Germans and nobody else who were responsible for nazism.

>
>[other nations atrocities not similarly protected]
> 
>> You may have a point, but how did you suddenly become a concerned
>> world citizen?
>
>Good question - are you gonna tell us Ole?
>
 First I regard myself a citizen of Denmark. Secondly of Europe (ethnic as
well as culturally). Thirdly and of far less importance of the world. In 
that order.

OLK
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Jun 27 10:19:47 PDT 1996
Article: 78096 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:39:39 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
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References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <-WRpnOev1iML065yn@login.dknet.dk>  <$jypnOev1KSP065yn@login.dknet.dk> 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4264 soc.culture.nordic:46105 soc.culture.german:78096

In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>
># In article ,
># Holger Skok wrote:
>
>## However, I'd like to ask you something else.
>##
>## You have claimed previously, that the holocaust did not happen
>## as described in current history books. You claimed that it must
>## have been impossible to kill as many people in the given amount
>## of time.
>##
>## Care to back that up a bit? Sources - Leuchter report, maybe?
>
># And the Walther Lueftl report and the Rudolph Germer report.
>
>Both of which are a pile of pseudo-scientific rubbish, riddled
>with errors and outright lies.
>
  If it really were a pile of pseudo-scientific rubbish etc., why do the 
governments of France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany fear it so much 
that they have taken so drastic steps as to ban it. This indicates that 
the revisionists must have a very strong message. When I first heard of the 
legislation and persecution of the revisionists in France I became curious 
to see for myself what revisionism was about. Today I defend many of the 
revisionist views thanks to the French government.

OLK

PS Daniel Keren had the follow ups set to alt.revisionism only. However 
since this is _not_ a discussion whether or not the holocaust happened, but 
_solely_ about legislation in some European countries and the pressure from 
Germany through European Union to have similiar legislation enforced in 
*all* the EU countries, I have changed this setting. 

--


From hkr@ifi.uio.no Thu Jun 27 10:31:26 PDT 1996
Article: 78039 of soc.culture.german
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From: Hans Kristian Ruud 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark
Date: 24 Jun 1996 12:57:59 +0200
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
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In , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
writes:

< snip >

>  The silly German government thinks that by punishing some nazis they
> can make it look like it was just those nazis who did this and that.

But it was the Nazis who commited the bespoke crimes against humanity.
For which there is a wealth of documentation. And the crimes were
committed as an integral part of National Socialism.

> Hitler said several times that national socialism knows only Germany and is
> not meant for export.

Which did not stop him from acknowledging followers in other countries.
Indeed, both Denmark and Norway were slated as junior partners in the
Tausend Jahre Reich. Otherwise, I suppose you might find a support for
anything in Hitlers madman ravings.


--
* Hans Kr. Ruud						The noble art    *
* Kristine Bonnevies vei 15				of losing face   *
* 0592 ┼RVOLL						may one day save *
* Tlf. 22 65 22 34 (hjemme) 22 77 05 35 (jobb)  	the human race   *


From skok@itw.uni-stuttgart.de Thu Jun 27 10:31:54 PDT 1996
Article: 78041 of soc.culture.german
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From: skok@itw.uni-stuttgart.de (Holger Skok)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:02:00 +0200
Organization: IAW
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In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Holger
Skok wrote:
> >The catchy principle behind them simply states: "No freedom for the 
> >enemies of freedom!" - a slogan based on the understanding, that the 
> >Weimar Republic was just too lenient, allowed too much freedom to those 
> >whose only aim it was to destroy the Republic and its freedom along with 
> >it.
 
>  But the communists are tolerated. As far as I know there is even in the 
> German Parliament a communist party that descents from the old DDR 
> (East Germany) communist party. PDS is the name as far as I remember.
> My question is the following: "Was DDR a friend or an enemy of freedom
> and democracy"?
 
Well, first of all, the laws we are talking about were laws of the 
Federal Republic of Germany  - de facto a different state than the GDR.
Since the DDR (GDR) has joined the Federal Republic - that's what has
happened in a sense, much to the chagrin of many East Germans for
many different reasons - our laws have simply been extended to East
Germany.

Secondly, some extremist parties have been and are being tolerated. 
The rationale behind that is that it's easier to observe what their
members do as long as they do it out in the open. So NPD, DVU and
"Reps" - right wing extremists are being tolerated, even though
NPD membership can get you into trouble if you're a teacher, and so
were DKP (R.I.P.) and SDS, and so is the PDS, which by the way I
wouldn't consider a communist party. Left wing: yes, orthodox
communist: no - even though an orthodox faction exists inside the
PDS - Kommunistische Plattform, Sarah Wagenknecht.

Other extreme right wing or left wing groupings have been dissolved.
The decision to start the proceedings necessary for doing so has to
be made by the legislature, but the decision is being made by the
judiciary (Verfassungsgericht, if I'm not mistaken). 

I don't see what the DDR has to do with dissolving extremist
parties or not. It certainly was a dictatorship (of the proletariat,
you know ;-) -  a proletariat consisting of a few old geezers
in the end) but what does that have to do with what we did in the 
Federal Republic?

> >So, I am personally undecided. As long as the legal practice is not
> >extended to new "thought" crimes - and as far as I can see it isn't,
> >the laws should remain in effect. 
 
>  But they should certainly not be enforced upon the neighbouring countries
> which have an entirely different history and certainly do not identify
> themselves with the cause of Germany. Despite all mumbo jumbo about 
> the meaning of the concept "Germanic", Germany was regarded the enemy in 
> Denmark during WW2 and long before that for that matter. When I hear the 
> old generation speak about the occupation you hear only the word Germans
> and Germany. They never say that Denmark was occupied by the nazis but
> always the by Germans. Germany and the Germans were the enemies and nazism
> was just one their attributes at that time. Had the Germans been something 
> else, even democrats, they would certainly have been hated as well. Therefore 
> it is in my opinion of no use trying to say that it was the nazis who were 
> responsible for the occupation of Denmark and all the other countries when 
> it really was the Germans and nobody else who were responsible for nazism.


Depends, I'd say. 

If there is going to be a United Europe, then there will have to be some 
federal institutions, among them a Supreme Court - which exists as the 
European Court of Justice already. An independent judiciary, with a supreme
court to handle human rights cases, protecting European citizens' human 
rights against their national governments and the EU government is a
necessary ingredient of limited and constitutional government.

Naturally, there will have to be some constitution to base decisions on.
Currently the basis consists of the different pertinent treaties 
between the member states. There has been no citizens' participation
in the process, and that should be changed. When that happens, German
and Danish citizens will get a say and then, of course, some of our ideas
will be introduced just as well as some Danish ones (and Italian, French
and so on). 

Concerning the distinction between "Nazis" and "Germans" you're 
probably right, as long as you're talking about the Germany in the
years between say, 1920 and 1945. It was indeed "the Germans"
who invaded neighbouring nations, but if you were to attribute 
the same deeds to Germans having been born after, say, 1938
then you wouldn't have a point and be needlessly insulting.  Talking
about the Germany of today it is clearer to say "the Nazis" or 
"the generation of our grandparents" invaded France... 

Ciao,
HSK

-- 
Holger Skok ITW, Uni Stuttgart
email: skok@itw.uni-stuttgart.de
phone: +49 711 685 3230


From skok@itw.uni-stuttgart.de Thu Jun 27 10:32:35 PDT 1996
Article: 78046 of soc.culture.german
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From: skok@itw.uni-stuttgart.de (Holger Skok)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark (was: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:38:28 +0200
Organization: IAW
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In article <4qng5u$9sa@sol.caps.maine.edu>, scotterb@maine.maine.edu
(scott Erb) wrote:

> In article <4qn63k$jcl@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, tor@elsi.com says...
> >  Making martyrs of these pigs
> >will only prompt future generations of historians and public at large to
> >question the holocaust, as well. (What did these politicians in the 90's
> >have to hide?  Did they try to rewrite history?)
> 
> Yes, I think you're right.  The problem, of course, is that there probably 
> was legitimate grounds in the late forties to pass these laws.  Germany's 
> democratic traditions were weak, and de-nazification needed to move forward. 
> I think now democracy is well grounded, and such laws can be liberalized.  
> Also, those laws are abused to, among other things, harass the PDS and other 
> parties which might rub certain politicians the wrong way.
> -scott

I think you're mixing things up a bit here. There are several issues 
involved here.

For one thing: Denazification was handled by the Allied forces. The only
ones who did that thoroughly in their occupation zone were the Soviets - 
they had a replacement government handy, after all. In the Western Zones
both the French and the British had too heavy a load on their hands just
keeping the vanquished population from starving and freezing to death 
in the first post-war winter to look too hard at Germans willing to
cooperate. The Americans worked a bit more thoroughly in the beginning,
but the original aims slowly faded behind the commencing cold war.

We Germans were happy to just forget and work and survive. Not to touch
at the past was the tacit agreement between all post-war parties. That
didn't change until the end of the sixties when the student movement 
derived much of its impetus from uncovering the Nazi past of many 
professors and politicians. So much about denazification for now.

Secondly, the law, or rather the executive order which could be used
against members of extremist parties is the so called "Radikalenerlass".
It stipulates that members of institutions opposed to our constitution 
cannot become public servants - eg teachers. Too rubbery formulations,
little possibility of attacking decisions  based on it in the courts - it
should be scrapped.

Thirdly, activities against political parties like the PDS can be based
on the constitutionality of their aims. An organization wanting
to style itself as a political party - with ensuing priviledges - has to
meet certain criteria. Internal democratic decision making has to be
guaranteed for example, and the basic aims of the organization must
be constitutional. Human rights and the basic democratic and republican
organization of our state have to be accepted in the programmatic 
statements of the would-be party. These are formal criteria which 
apply to every party. (Recently the elections for the Buergerschaft 
(city parliament) of Hamburg had to be repeated because a Christian
Democratic dissident had successfully argued in court that the 
determination of the CDU candidates for the election had not been
democratic)

The constitutionality of a political party is being decided upon by
the courts - I believe that this has to be taken up to the 
Verfassungsgericht (supreme court) - but the judiciary does not
act on its own in these cases. Someone (another political party
in this case, if I am not mistaken) has to start the proceedings.
If the program of the political party in question is then found
to be unconstitutional, it will be prohibited. The party has to 
dissolve itself, membership becomes a misdemeanor, I think.

That way, the KPD was banned, but the DKP continued to exist
until its source of financing - the DDR ceased to exist. NPD,
DVU and Reps are still around, even though one could probably
call them unconstitutional. And some Christian Democrats would
surely like to have the PDS declared unconstitutional. But - as
I said - it is up to them to start the proceedings but they don't
make the decision.

Finally, we've got the thorny field of revisionism. The original
intention of making the denial of the holocaust an offense itself
was to protect the honour and memory of the victims and the
survivors. The German state will thus prosecute in lieue of
the survivors statements which could otherwise only be 
treated in civil courts, where the survivors would have to 
individually prove the historically proven fact of the holocaust.
A bit odious in view of the freedom of speech, to be sure, but
maybe defensible due to our dark history. Same goes for the
public display of Nazi symbols. 

The results of the pertinent laws is mixed and - as I have
stated in previous postings - I have mixed feelings about
them. I'd expect them to slowly loose importance and be
overturned, maybe, by the European Court in a decade or two.

Ciao,
HSK

-- 
Holger Skok ITW, Uni Stuttgart
email: skok@itw.uni-stuttgart.de
phone: +49 711 685 3230


From jens@cphling.dk Thu Jun 27 10:35:10 PDT 1996
Article: 78058 of soc.culture.german
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From: "Jens S. Larsen" 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There is something Kreiberg in the state of Denmark
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:15:30 +0200
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> From           olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
> Date           Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:28:26 +0100
> Message-ID     

> In article , Jens S. Larsen
> wrote:
> >Why can't you just stay in alt.revisionism where you belong, Ole?
> 
> Why can't the German government stop bothering Denmark with their
> miserable past.

Because we have it in common, I guess.

> The Germans come to Denmark and demand that the Danes by law should
> be enforced to think the same way as they do about WW2 and the socalled
> holocaust.

`The Germans'?  Do all people think the same way just by being
residents in the same geographical area?  I think not!  Just look at
us!

> So in return I come to them.

Did you remember to get some tax-free smoke and booze on the ferry
on your way home?

> If they want confrontation with 
> Danish citizens I am ready to face them.

You seem confused as to whether you are one or several persons,
Ole.  Don't worry, it'll probably weer off when we get that bridge
to Fehmern.

> Had they from the beginning had 
> the attitude that only the Germans are responsible for what happened to
> the Jews during WW2,
> and in particular since no Danish citizens are reported to 
> have been in any of the alleged extermination camps in Poland either as 
> victims or as executioners
> it is inaprobiate *for Germany* to bother Denmark 
> with this part of *its* history.

If the German government thinks it needs our help in order not to
repeat some of the more dim aspects of its past, then I think we
should give it to them.  I don't know what form the help will take;
I'm not the Danish official appointed to the task.

> In that case I would never have posted to 
> soc.culture.german. What ever Danish citizens think of this and that is 
> strickly an internal Danish affair.

"Die Gedanken sind frei", Ole; sogar zollfrei. (They are not cheaper
on the ferries, though).  Germans and others may think and say
whatever they want about internal and external Danish affairs, and
it goes the other way too.  The more the merrier.

> If Germany absolutely has to bother 
> Denmark with events from WW2 they can do something much more aprobiate. 
> Germany still owes Denmark more than 1 billion dollars from loans granted 
> to Germany during WW2. My message to the German government is: "Pay back 
> your debt or keep your mouth shut and mind your own business".

Sure that isn't just an urban legend?

> >> You see the Germans are too cowardly to take the full responsibility
> >> for what they did or did not do to the Jews during WW2.

> >Not really, but the nazis are.

> What really happened to the Jews and the people in the countries occupied
> by the Germans are the responsibility of the German nation and not just some 
> nazis.

If you could read, you'd noticed I said just that.

> The silly German government thinks that by punishing some nazis
> they can make it look like it was just those nazis who did this and that.
> The nazis have become scapegoats the same way the Jews were during WW2.
> The Germans punished evil Jews in the past and the evil nazis today and
> Germany will become good.

No-no, you got it all wrong: they try to punish those citizens they
think to be doing evil things, and reward those they think to be
doing good things.  All societies work that way.

> This proves that you cannot change the nature of the Germans.

You could try gene therapy.

> Everytime I read that now the Germans have caught another little 
> old German man in South America I feel I am going to puke.

Feeling ignored every time, are we?


> >> No Danes participated
> >> in any actions against the Jews, and some Danes even helped the Jews to
> >> escape to Sweden. Even all the Jews agree that Danish people did not 
> >> do any harm to them during WW2.  Remember, that Hitler said several
> >> times 
> >> that National Socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for export. 

> >Aha.  What was the German army doing in Norway and Greece then?
> >Taking a five year vacation? 

>  In Greece they were aiding their Italian Ally. The Germans wanted German 
> hegemony over Europe but they certainly did not want to nazify the 
> non-German part of Europe, because according to their nazi ideology it 
> was the Germans and nobody else who were regarded the masterrace. Is that 
> clear?

Why didn't they just stay in Germany then?  And why did they give a
damn about Italy's problems?

> OLK
> 
> --
> Let me repeat that Hitler said several times that national socialism knows 
> only Germany and is not meant for export. His exact words were:
> 
> "Der Nationalsozialismus kennt nur das Deutchtum, und ihn interessiert
> sonst 
> sonst nichts auf der Welt..... Die nationalsozialistische Lehre ist, und 
> ich habe das wieder betont, keine exportware. Sie ist nur fuer das
> deutsche
> Volk geschaffen".
> --

Interesting. I didn't know Hitler had a spelling problem.

--
Gxis, CU, TschŘ▀, Hej, Salut   /Jens S. Larsen, lingvist (BA in spe)





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