The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kreiberg.ole/1996/kreiberg.0296


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Feb  8 00:21:18 PST 1996
Article: 22985 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Jews and the Sovjet Union during WW2
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 23:42:15 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 148
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk

John Morris wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg wrote:

>>  What really happened to the millions of Jews who lived in Poland before 
>>the WW2? 

>>At the census in Poland in 1931 the number of Jews is estimated to 3.1 
>>million. However, there was a considerable emigration in thirties of Jews to 
>>Palestine, South America, USA, France, the Benelux, England etc. The 
>>Institute of Contemporary History in Munich estimates that approximately 
>>hundred thousand Polish Jews emigrated each year from 1933.

>And they said this where exactly?

Yes

>> Thus there 
>>arrived solely 68000 to Palestine between 1934 and 1937. Therefore it is 
>>estimated that there were app. 2664000 Jews in Poland at the outbrake of 
>>the war in 1939. After the German and Sovjet invasion at least 750000 
>>Jews escaped from the German occupied part of Poland to the Sovjet occupied.

>And who says this? Where?

There are a lot of sources which confirm this (Excerpts from Walter Sanning,
The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry):

  Nine years after WW2 on September 22 and 23, 1954 an investigating commitee  
of the US House of Representatives (Select Commitee on Communist Aggression)
conducted hearings where representatives of several Jewish organizations 
testified under oath on the subject of the persecution of Jews by the Sovjet.
One Herschel Weinrauch, formerly an associate editor of the Sovjet newspaper 
The Star, declared that he was an official in the civil administration of 
Bialystok following the Sovjet occupation in 1939. In his testimony he said
the Communists made all refugee Jews from German-occupied Poland choose in
spring of 1940 between accepting Sovjet citizenship or returning to German
control.
  Because of the barbarian treatment accorded to these Jews from the western
portion of divided Poland by the Sovjets most of them opted for a return.
Shortly thereafter, though, the Sovjet government arrested all those who had 
decided to return and transported them to Siberia. In Bialystok alone, 
50-60000 Jewish refugees were arrested. All in all, the Sovjet deported  
roughly one million Jewish refugees from western Poland to Siberia. (Source:
Treatment of Jews by the Sovjet. 17th Interim Report of Hearings before
the Select Commitee on Communist Aggression, House of Representatives, 83rd
Congress, New York, September 22 and 23, 1954 p. 40.)
  Another witness, Bronislaw Teichholz, chairman of the International 
Commitee for Jewish refugees from Concentration Camps from 1945 to 1952 
confirmed Weinrauch's testimony. At that time he had been working in Lvov
where about 50000 Jewish refugees had decided to return; all of them were   
deported by the Sovjets, in the process crowding 70 to 80 persons into
railroad cars and then moving them eastward.
  A third witness, Adolph Held, chairman of the Jewish Labor commitee, was 
absent due to an incident of death in his family, but he had his testimony 
read to the investigating commitee by the vice chairman, Jacob T Zukerman. 
This witness, too, confirmed that up to one million Jews escaped to Russia. 
Another witness, Henry Edward Schultz, national chairman of the 
Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, put the number of Jewish refugees
>from  western Poland deported on Stalin's orders to Siberian labor camps at
600000; 450000 of these unfortunate people have vanished without a trace.
  The Polish Goverment-in-Exile, too, declared the Sovjets deported   
600000 Jewish refugees from western Poland in the spring of 1940. The Jewish
statistician J Kulischer, asserted that Stalin "evacuated" 530000 Jews - 
500000 from eastern Poland and 30000 from the Baltic countries.(Source: 
Gedeon Haganov, Le Communisme and les "juifs") Other Jewish sources arrive 
at even lower figures.
  Rabbi Aaron Pechenick described the Sovjet mass deportation in his book, 
Zionism and Judaism in Sovjet Russia published in New York in 1943 as
follows:

  "In two days and two nights [end of June 1940] almost one million jews 
  were loaded into cattle waggons under the most horrible circumstances and 
  deported to Siberia and the Ural. ... The terrible journey lasted from 
  four to six weeks. Having arrived at their destinations the Jews obtained 
  only bread and water to sustain their lives after the long working days
  in the forest."

The Joint Distribution Commitee wrote in it's bulletin of June 1943:

  " From a fifth to a third of the number of refugees died... whoever did
  not see the thousands of graves, mostly of children, cannot understand"  

 From Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 11 p.184 you can find the following:

 "With the outbreak of the war in September, the Poles began to loot stores
and attack the Jews ... the Jews were deported by the Germans [September 
1939] to the area under Sovjet control on the other side of the San River.
... Those who were deported to the Sovjet Zone lived there in very difficult 
economic conditions. In the summer of 1940 many of them were deported to
the Sovjet interior."


>Martin Gilbert indicates that 250,000 Jews escaped eastward from
>Poland (_Atlas of the Holocaust_, p.36).

>>These refugees were spread all over the Sovjet Union. Those who refused to 
>>apply for Sovjet citizensship were sent to special work camps, where hundred 
>>of thousands died.

>And who says this? Where?

>> In the Jewish Universal Encyclopedia vol. 6  page 176 is 
>>written that the Jewish relief organisation, The Joint Distribution 
>>Commitee in the beginning of 1942 organized relief to 600000 Polish-Jewish 
>>refugees, alone in the Asiatic parts of the Sovjet Union.

>These 600,000. Are they specified as Jews fleeing from Poland in the
>wake of the Nazi invasion, or were they emigrants from the period
>1933-39?

As Jews fleeing from the Nazi invasion. I do not think that Stalin's Sovjet 
Union ever received any immigrants at all.


>Hey, wait a second. You already subtracted these as people that
>escaped to the Soviet Union three paragraphs ago.

No, No and No. The 600000 is comprised in the 750000. 


>> Most of the Sovjet Jews lived in the cities. After 
>>the war in June 1946 there were 240489 registered Jews in Poland. (This was 
>>in the Western part of Poland which was occupied by the Germans 1939. The 
>>other half occupied by Stalin was incoperated in the Sovjet Union after the 
>>war.) It is not known, how many Jews fled to Western Europe and from there 
>>to Palestine and the USA at the end of the war.

>What the hell? You still had 950,000 Jews still alive in Poland even
>after double subtracting the escapees. Where are the other 700,000?
>Fudged away in the great "we don't know?"

Remember that Stalin kept his part of Poland, where almost half of the 
pre-war Jews lived. How many were there after the war in these area, and
how many were evacuated? 

>Now explain whatever possessed the Nazis to conclude at the Wansee
>Conference on January 20, 1942 that there were 2,704,000 Jews in the
>Polish territories under their control.

 I think that they were exaggerating the size of the socalled "Jewish 
Danger" of political and ideologically reasons. I do not understand why
you always have so much faith in the credibility of the nazis. It is much
more common for dictatorships than democracies to exaggerate, distort and
lie.             

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Feb  8 09:20:59 PST 1996
Article: 13499 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Zionism = racism?
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 19:34:28 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
References: <823367075snz@augur.demon.co.uk>  <823422540snz@augur.demon.co.uk> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:18138 alt.politics.nationalism.white:13499

In article , Les Griswold wrote:
>Caesar (Caesar@augur.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>> 
>> If the UN is controlled by Jews, how come the UN General Assembly
>> passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism with racism?
>
>You might also want to mention that the UN General Assembly overturned
>that resolution shortly afterwards.
>

  This resolution was not overturned until a few years ago. After the fall
of communism in eastern Europe, the policy of these countries became more
western and pro-Israel, and a lot of third world countries followed. 

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Feb 10 13:42:07 PST 1996
Article: 67835 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: The Polish Jews during WW2
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:00:57 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 195
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk

  The following are two articles I have had posted in alt.revisionism. 
The content is based entirely on Jewish and Allied sources, so I cannot 
imagine that you will be able to find anything which can be regarded
as thought-crimes by your crazy and obscure laws.


  What really happened to the millions of Jews who lived in Poland before 
the WW2? 

At the census in Poland in 1931 the number of Jews is estimated to 3.1 
million. However, there was a considerable emigration in thirties of Jews to 
Palestine, South America, USA, France, the Benelux, England etc. The 
Institute of Contemporary History in Munich estimates that approximately 
hundred thousand Polish Jews emigrated each year from 1933. Thus there 
arrived solely 68000 to Palestine between 1934 and 1937. Therefore it is 
estimated that there were app. 2664000 Jews in Poland at the outbrake of 
the war in 1939. After the German and Sovjet invasion at least 750000 
Jews escaped from the German occupied part of Poland to the Sovjet occupied. 
These refugees were spread all over the Sovjet Union. Those who refused to 
apply for Sovjet citizensship were sent to special work camps, where hundred 
of thousands died. In the Jewish Universal Encyclopedia vol. 6  page 176 is 
written that the Jewish relief organisation, The Joint Distribution 
Commitee in the beginning of 1942 organized relief to 600000 Polish-Jewish 
refugees, alone in the Asiatic parts of the Sovjet Union. There were now 
757000 Jews left under German control. 100000 Jews escaped to Romania via 
Bukovina. From Romania there was an escape route by ship to Turkey. When 
the Germans invaded the Sovjet Union in 1941, millions of people were 
evacuated to the east by the Sovjet authorities. These were in particular 
the population of the cities and the towns that was regarded the most useful 
in the armament industry. Most of the Sovjet Jews lived in the cities. After 
the war in June 1946 there were 240489 registered Jews in Poland. (This was 
in the Western part of Poland which was occupied by the Germans 1939. The 
other half occupied by Stalin was incoperated in the Sovjet Union after the 
war.) It is not known, how many Jews fled to Western Europe and from there 
to Palestine and the USA at the end of the war.

 
Follow-up: 


John Morris wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg wrote:

>>  What really happened to the millions of Jews who lived in Poland before 
>>the WW2? 

>>At the census in Poland in 1931 the number of Jews is estimated to 3.1 
>>million. However, there was a considerable emigration in thirties of Jews to 
>>Palestine, South America, USA, France, the Benelux, England etc. The 
>>Institute of Contemporary History in Munich estimates that approximately 
>>hundred thousand Polish Jews emigrated each year from 1933.

>And they said this where exactly?

Yes

>> Thus there 
>>arrived solely 68000 to Palestine between 1934 and 1937. Therefore it is 
>>estimated that there were app. 2664000 Jews in Poland at the outbrake of 
>>the war in 1939. After the German and Sovjet invasion at least 750000 
>>Jews escaped from the German occupied part of Poland to the Sovjet occupied.

>And who says this? Where?

There are a lot of sources which confirm this (Excerpts from Walter Sanning,
The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry):

  Nine years after WW2 on September 22 and 23, 1954 an investigating commitee  
of the US House of Representatives (Select Commitee on Communist Aggression)
conducted hearings where representatives of several Jewish organizations 
testified under oath on the subject of the persecution of Jews by the Sovjet.
One Herschel Weinrauch, formerly an associate editor of the Sovjet newspaper 
The Star, declared that he was an official in the civil administration of 
Bialystok following the Sovjet occupation in 1939. In his testimony he said
the Communists made all refugee Jews from German-occupied Poland choose in
spring of 1940 between accepting Sovjet citizenship or returning to German
control.
  Because of the barbarian treatment accorded to these Jews from the western
portion of divided Poland by the Sovjets most of them opted for a return.
Shortly thereafter, though, the Sovjet government arrested all those who had 
decided to return and transported them to Siberia. In Bialystok alone, 
50-60000 Jewish refugees were arrested. All in all, the Sovjet deported  
roughly one million Jewish refugees from western Poland to Siberia. (Source:
Treatment of Jews by the Sovjet. 17th Interim Report of Hearings before
the Select Commitee on Communist Aggression, House of Representatives, 83rd
Congress, New York, September 22 and 23, 1954 p. 40.)
  Another witness, Bronislaw Teichholz, chairman of the International 
Commitee for Jewish refugees from Concentration Camps from 1945 to 1952 
confirmed Weinrauch's testimony. At that time he had been working in Lvov
where about 50000 Jewish refugees had decided to return; all of them were   
deported by the Sovjets, in the process crowding 70 to 80 persons into
railroad cars and then moving them eastward.
  A third witness, Adolph Held, chairman of the Jewish Labor commitee, was 
absent due to an incident of death in his family, but he had his testimony 
read to the investigating commitee by the vice chairman, Jacob T Zukerman. 
This witness, too, confirmed that up to one million Jews escaped to Russia. 
Another witness, Henry Edward Schultz, national chairman of the 
Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, put the number of Jewish refugees
>from  western Poland deported on Stalin's orders to Siberian labor camps at
600000; 450000 of these unfortunate people have vanished without a trace.
  The Polish Goverment-in-Exile, too, declared the Sovjets deported   
600000 Jewish refugees from western Poland in the spring of 1940. The Jewish
statistician J Kulischer, asserted that Stalin "evacuated" 530000 Jews - 
500000 from eastern Poland and 30000 from the Baltic countries.(Source: 
Gedeon Haganov, Le Communisme and les "juifs") Other Jewish sources arrive 
at even lower figures.
  Rabbi Aaron Pechenick described the Sovjet mass deportation in his book, 
Zionism and Judaism in Sovjet Russia published in New York in 1943 as
follows:

  "In two days and two nights [end of June 1940] almost one million jews 
  were loaded into cattle waggons under the most horrible circumstances and 
  deported to Siberia and the Ural. ... The terrible journey lasted from 
  four to six weeks. Having arrived at their destinations the Jews obtained 
  only bread and water to sustain their lives after the long working days
  in the forest."

The Joint Distribution Commitee wrote in it's bulletin of June 1943:

  " From a fifth to a third of the number of refugees died... whoever did
  not see the thousands of graves, mostly of children, cannot understand"  

 From Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 11 p.184 you can find the following:

 "With the outbreak of the war in September, the Poles began to loot stores
and attack the Jews ... the Jews were deported by the Germans [September 
1939] to the area under Sovjet control on the other side of the San River.
... Those who were deported to the Sovjet Zone lived there in very difficult 
economic conditions. In the summer of 1940 many of them were deported to
the Sovjet interior."


>Martin Gilbert indicates that 250,000 Jews escaped eastward from
>Poland (_Atlas of the Holocaust_, p.36).

>>These refugees were spread all over the Sovjet Union. Those who refused to 
>>apply for Sovjet citizensship were sent to special work camps, where hundred 
>>of thousands died.

>And who says this? Where?

See above

>> In the Jewish Universal Encyclopedia vol. 6  page 176 is 
>>written that the Jewish relief organisation, The Joint Distribution 
>>Commitee in the beginning of 1942 organized relief to 600000 Polish-Jewish 
>>refugees, alone in the Asiatic parts of the Sovjet Union.

>These 600,000. Are they specified as Jews fleeing from Poland in the
>wake of the Nazi invasion, or were they emigrants from the period
>1933-39?

As Jews fleeing from the Nazi invasion. I do not think that Stalin's Sovjet 
Union ever received any immigrants at all.


>Hey, wait a second. You already subtracted these as people that
>escaped to the Soviet Union three paragraphs ago.

No, No and No. The 600000 is comprised in the 750000. 


>> Most of the Sovjet Jews lived in the cities. After 
>>the war in June 1946 there were 240489 registered Jews in Poland. (This was 
>>in the Western part of Poland which was occupied by the Germans 1939. The 
>>other half occupied by Stalin was incoperated in the Sovjet Union after the 
>>war.) It is not known, how many Jews fled to Western Europe and from there 
>>to Palestine and the USA at the end of the war.

>What the hell? You still had 950,000 Jews still alive in Poland even
>after double subtracting the escapees. Where are the other 700,000?
>Fudged away in the great "we don't know?"

Remember that Stalin kept his part of Poland, where almost half of the 
pre-war Jews lived. How many were there after the war in this area, and
how many were evacuated? 

>Now explain whatever possessed the Nazis to conclude at the Wansee
>Conference on January 20, 1942 that there were 2,704,000 Jews in the
>Polish territories under their control.

 I think that they were exaggerating the size of the socalled "Jewish 
Danger" of political and ideological reasons. I do not understand why
you always have so much faith in the credibility of the nazis. It is much
more common for dictatorships than democracies to exaggerate, distort and
lie.             

Ole Kreiberg

A quote from the German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer:

How the unwanted Truth are received: "First it is ridiculed, then fought
violently, for at last to be accepted self-evident"

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Feb 11 08:34:42 PST 1996
Article: 13632 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Aryans and India
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:18:27 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 136
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References:   <199601310036.SAA26677@howdy.wustl.edu>  <4f64et$aq3@newsreader.wustl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:13632 alt.politics.white-power:18419

In article <4f64et$aq3@newsreader.wustl.edu>, K. Lakshmi Narayan wrote:
>From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
>
>
>>Didn't the ancient Persians absorb all the aboriginal people in
>>their gene pool, while the the Indo-Aryans tried to avoid this
>>by introducing the caste system? According to C S Churye the
>>the Brahmans in Punjab, Rajputna and the western parts of Uttar 
>>Pradesh are quite unmmixed and belong to the [White] Mediterranean 
>>race (The tall type). I have myself travelled these parts of India
>>and have made the same observations. They do indeed look much 
>>like people of Southern Europe. 
>
>       Can't speak too much for the Persians, except that there was a
>       flourishing trade between them and N. India well into 700 AD, at which
>       point it was abruptly cut off, no doubt, due to Islamic invasion of
>       Persia. As for gene-pool mixing, AFAIK there weren't any indigenous
>       people in Iran except for the nomadic Aryans, so I wouldn't think
>       mixing really comes into it. The Semitic Arabs came in much later.

  How can you be so sure that there were no aboriginal people there? So
far as I know at least in the areas around the Persian Golf there were 
supposed to have lived Negritos (black people). How about slavery? The 
slavery was widespread in all of the countries around the Mediterranean
and in the Middle East. When released or after the abolishment of slavery 
these slaves were free to be absorbed into the genepool, and I do not think
many of them were of Aryan origin.

>
>       I would like to ask you a few questions (maybe you have addressed
>       these elsewhere, I don't know). You appear fairly educated than the
>       white power lot here; why are you so hung up on Aryanism? 

 Because I am much absorbed with the race-question. It is my major interest.

>        Do you
>       recognise that in Europe it does not even make sense to classify people
>       into Semites, Slavics, Finno-Ugrics, Aryans, Celtics, Eskimos etc. in
>       most cases? Can you produce ANY documented evidence that these races 
>       have not mingled? Can you demonstrate Gentiles are Simon-pure Aryans?
>
  I have never maintained that there today exists a thing like completely
pure Aryans. I rather agree with Gobineau, that all races are more or less
impure, but some ethnic groups are more pure than others. In India you may 
say some castes are more pure Aryan than others. 


>       Or is it just your tendency towards perceptible identification and
>       categorization into whites? In which case, you are NOT looking for
>       Aryans; you are searching for whites.


>
>       I take it that you are of Scandinavian (at least Germanic) descent.
>       Can you show me the features of distinguishing between a Gentile
>       and a Finno-Ugric? Take, for e.g., the Samis. Most of these are of
>       bona-fide Eskimoic origin (I believe quiet pure too, considering
>       the way they are looked down upon in Upper Scandinavia). Can you
>       identify the distinct features that seperate them from others?
>
          I live in Denmark where there are no Samis. As far as I know
        the Samis are very mixed. Some may look almost mongolian and some 
        almost White.

>       I don't think you can. In fact, most can not.
>
>>Yaeh, I will be regarded as a Mlechchha, that is a foreigner or  
>>a stranger to the Hindu society. 
>
>       Perhaps, but I am not too sure. Definitely the English were not
>       regarded that way. 

        So what were they regarded then?
        Hm, the Australian professor Basham who wrote the book, The Wonder
        that Was India, called himself a Mlechcha in an adress to the 
        Indians, or so he at least expected them to regard him. He could
        of course have been of Australian Aboriginal stock :-) .  
    
                                                                
>       FYI, mlechchan is a word used to identify all those
>       "unclassifiable" Australoid tribals. You see, the shudras were the ones
>       those embraced Hinduism, and led a relatively settled existence as
>       farmers, cultivators, laborers, etc: But then you had all those
>       "slash-and-burn" nomadics (not too unlike Germanic tribes of, say, the
>       Roman era) who were very tough to civilise, because these people lived
>       in remote mountaineous regions. Racially speaking, they are believed to
>       be close to Australian aborgines. These were the mlechchas.

        Hm, If that is your definition, what do you then think a Javana is?
        

>
>       The point here is that foreign conquests had become too much of a part
>       of the society, that granting a fresh classification to each invader
>       was getting out-of-hand. Also, in many cases assimilation also went on
>       at a brisk pace (e.g., the Portuguese and Dutch of the East, the 
>       Semites, etc.). And the Brahmanas, in general, deliberately excluded
>       themselves from these mixes.
>
>>Hmm are the Slavs not of Indo-European stock? The idea of Gobineau
>>was that the population of the North-Western Europe was the most 
>>pure Aryans, although far from completely pure. 
>
>       I have read about this too, but I was taught that there was more
>       evidence to the theory that Slavics, in their habitations, generally
>       pre-dated the Aryans of Asia-Minor and Trans-Caucasus, i.e., they
>       arrived earlier. 

Linguistic the Slavic languages are Aryan or Indo-European. I myself know 
both a little Russian and Sanskrit, and to me these two languages have
much more in common grammatically than they have with e.g. Danish or English.
As far as I know the European language which has most in common with Sanskrit
is Lithuanian which is not Slavic but closely related. Racially the Slavs 
seem to be as White as people in the West. 

Hitler's idea of Slavs as "subhumans" has more to do with German chauvinism
than true racialism. You must also admit that it was his crazy "Ostpolitik"
which started the WW2 (Poland) and which led to his total defeat 
(Barbarossa - the attack on the Sovjet Union). If he had had a more 
realistic view on the Slavs, things would not in my opinion have turned out 
so disastrously for him.

>       In any case, I think you need to read someone that
>       holds more credibility than Gobbinneau. For a start, try Max Mueller,
>       for instance. He is one of those people who really elevated Indology
>       to the level os science. Sad thing was, after this it passed onto the
>       hands of Goebbels and Houston Cahmberlain, at which point it was well
>       out of the scientists' realm.

By the way, have you ever read The Aryan World View by Houston Chamberlain?  
This book is one long praise of the Ancient Indo-Aryan spirit.


Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Feb 11 08:57:01 PST 1996
Article: 67835 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: The Polish Jews during WW2
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:00:57 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 195
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk

  The following are two articles I have had posted in alt.revisionism. 
The content is based entirely on Jewish and Allied sources, so I cannot 
imagine that you will be able to find anything which can be regarded
as thought-crimes by your crazy and obscure laws.


  What really happened to the millions of Jews who lived in Poland before 
the WW2? 

At the census in Poland in 1931 the number of Jews is estimated to 3.1 
million. However, there was a considerable emigration in thirties of Jews to 
Palestine, South America, USA, France, the Benelux, England etc. The 
Institute of Contemporary History in Munich estimates that approximately 
hundred thousand Polish Jews emigrated each year from 1933. Thus there 
arrived solely 68000 to Palestine between 1934 and 1937. Therefore it is 
estimated that there were app. 2664000 Jews in Poland at the outbrake of 
the war in 1939. After the German and Sovjet invasion at least 750000 
Jews escaped from the German occupied part of Poland to the Sovjet occupied. 
These refugees were spread all over the Sovjet Union. Those who refused to 
apply for Sovjet citizensship were sent to special work camps, where hundred 
of thousands died. In the Jewish Universal Encyclopedia vol. 6  page 176 is 
written that the Jewish relief organisation, The Joint Distribution 
Commitee in the beginning of 1942 organized relief to 600000 Polish-Jewish 
refugees, alone in the Asiatic parts of the Sovjet Union. There were now 
757000 Jews left under German control. 100000 Jews escaped to Romania via 
Bukovina. From Romania there was an escape route by ship to Turkey. When 
the Germans invaded the Sovjet Union in 1941, millions of people were 
evacuated to the east by the Sovjet authorities. These were in particular 
the population of the cities and the towns that was regarded the most useful 
in the armament industry. Most of the Sovjet Jews lived in the cities. After 
the war in June 1946 there were 240489 registered Jews in Poland. (This was 
in the Western part of Poland which was occupied by the Germans 1939. The 
other half occupied by Stalin was incoperated in the Sovjet Union after the 
war.) It is not known, how many Jews fled to Western Europe and from there 
to Palestine and the USA at the end of the war.

 
Follow-up: 


John Morris wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg wrote:

>>  What really happened to the millions of Jews who lived in Poland before 
>>the WW2? 

>>At the census in Poland in 1931 the number of Jews is estimated to 3.1 
>>million. However, there was a considerable emigration in thirties of Jews to 
>>Palestine, South America, USA, France, the Benelux, England etc. The 
>>Institute of Contemporary History in Munich estimates that approximately 
>>hundred thousand Polish Jews emigrated each year from 1933.

>And they said this where exactly?

Yes

>> Thus there 
>>arrived solely 68000 to Palestine between 1934 and 1937. Therefore it is 
>>estimated that there were app. 2664000 Jews in Poland at the outbrake of 
>>the war in 1939. After the German and Sovjet invasion at least 750000 
>>Jews escaped from the German occupied part of Poland to the Sovjet occupied.

>And who says this? Where?

There are a lot of sources which confirm this (Excerpts from Walter Sanning,
The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry):

  Nine years after WW2 on September 22 and 23, 1954 an investigating commitee  
of the US House of Representatives (Select Commitee on Communist Aggression)
conducted hearings where representatives of several Jewish organizations 
testified under oath on the subject of the persecution of Jews by the Sovjet.
One Herschel Weinrauch, formerly an associate editor of the Sovjet newspaper 
The Star, declared that he was an official in the civil administration of 
Bialystok following the Sovjet occupation in 1939. In his testimony he said
the Communists made all refugee Jews from German-occupied Poland choose in
spring of 1940 between accepting Sovjet citizenship or returning to German
control.
  Because of the barbarian treatment accorded to these Jews from the western
portion of divided Poland by the Sovjets most of them opted for a return.
Shortly thereafter, though, the Sovjet government arrested all those who had 
decided to return and transported them to Siberia. In Bialystok alone, 
50-60000 Jewish refugees were arrested. All in all, the Sovjet deported  
roughly one million Jewish refugees from western Poland to Siberia. (Source:
Treatment of Jews by the Sovjet. 17th Interim Report of Hearings before
the Select Commitee on Communist Aggression, House of Representatives, 83rd
Congress, New York, September 22 and 23, 1954 p. 40.)
  Another witness, Bronislaw Teichholz, chairman of the International 
Commitee for Jewish refugees from Concentration Camps from 1945 to 1952 
confirmed Weinrauch's testimony. At that time he had been working in Lvov
where about 50000 Jewish refugees had decided to return; all of them were   
deported by the Sovjets, in the process crowding 70 to 80 persons into
railroad cars and then moving them eastward.
  A third witness, Adolph Held, chairman of the Jewish Labor commitee, was 
absent due to an incident of death in his family, but he had his testimony 
read to the investigating commitee by the vice chairman, Jacob T Zukerman. 
This witness, too, confirmed that up to one million Jews escaped to Russia. 
Another witness, Henry Edward Schultz, national chairman of the 
Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, put the number of Jewish refugees
>from  western Poland deported on Stalin's orders to Siberian labor camps at
600000; 450000 of these unfortunate people have vanished without a trace.
  The Polish Goverment-in-Exile, too, declared the Sovjets deported   
600000 Jewish refugees from western Poland in the spring of 1940. The Jewish
statistician J Kulischer, asserted that Stalin "evacuated" 530000 Jews - 
500000 from eastern Poland and 30000 from the Baltic countries.(Source: 
Gedeon Haganov, Le Communisme and les "juifs") Other Jewish sources arrive 
at even lower figures.
  Rabbi Aaron Pechenick described the Sovjet mass deportation in his book, 
Zionism and Judaism in Sovjet Russia published in New York in 1943 as
follows:

  "In two days and two nights [end of June 1940] almost one million jews 
  were loaded into cattle waggons under the most horrible circumstances and 
  deported to Siberia and the Ural. ... The terrible journey lasted from 
  four to six weeks. Having arrived at their destinations the Jews obtained 
  only bread and water to sustain their lives after the long working days
  in the forest."

The Joint Distribution Commitee wrote in it's bulletin of June 1943:

  " From a fifth to a third of the number of refugees died... whoever did
  not see the thousands of graves, mostly of children, cannot understand"  

 From Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 11 p.184 you can find the following:

 "With the outbreak of the war in September, the Poles began to loot stores
and attack the Jews ... the Jews were deported by the Germans [September 
1939] to the area under Sovjet control on the other side of the San River.
... Those who were deported to the Sovjet Zone lived there in very difficult 
economic conditions. In the summer of 1940 many of them were deported to
the Sovjet interior."


>Martin Gilbert indicates that 250,000 Jews escaped eastward from
>Poland (_Atlas of the Holocaust_, p.36).

>>These refugees were spread all over the Sovjet Union. Those who refused to 
>>apply for Sovjet citizensship were sent to special work camps, where hundred 
>>of thousands died.

>And who says this? Where?

See above

>> In the Jewish Universal Encyclopedia vol. 6  page 176 is 
>>written that the Jewish relief organisation, The Joint Distribution 
>>Commitee in the beginning of 1942 organized relief to 600000 Polish-Jewish 
>>refugees, alone in the Asiatic parts of the Sovjet Union.

>These 600,000. Are they specified as Jews fleeing from Poland in the
>wake of the Nazi invasion, or were they emigrants from the period
>1933-39?

As Jews fleeing from the Nazi invasion. I do not think that Stalin's Sovjet 
Union ever received any immigrants at all.


>Hey, wait a second. You already subtracted these as people that
>escaped to the Soviet Union three paragraphs ago.

No, No and No. The 600000 is comprised in the 750000. 


>> Most of the Sovjet Jews lived in the cities. After 
>>the war in June 1946 there were 240489 registered Jews in Poland. (This was 
>>in the Western part of Poland which was occupied by the Germans 1939. The 
>>other half occupied by Stalin was incoperated in the Sovjet Union after the 
>>war.) It is not known, how many Jews fled to Western Europe and from there 
>>to Palestine and the USA at the end of the war.

>What the hell? You still had 950,000 Jews still alive in Poland even
>after double subtracting the escapees. Where are the other 700,000?
>Fudged away in the great "we don't know?"

Remember that Stalin kept his part of Poland, where almost half of the 
pre-war Jews lived. How many were there after the war in this area, and
how many were evacuated? 

>Now explain whatever possessed the Nazis to conclude at the Wansee
>Conference on January 20, 1942 that there were 2,704,000 Jews in the
>Polish territories under their control.

 I think that they were exaggerating the size of the socalled "Jewish 
Danger" of political and ideological reasons. I do not understand why
you always have so much faith in the credibility of the nazis. It is much
more common for dictatorships than democracies to exaggerate, distort and
lie.             

Ole Kreiberg

A quote from the German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer:

How the unwanted Truth are received: "First it is ridiculed, then fought
violently, for at last to be accepted self-evident"

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Feb 11 08:57:02 PST 1996
Article: 67852 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Simon Wiesenthal - The Most Feared Person in Germany
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:27:19 +0100
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In article <4ffm3b$75i@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca>, Mark Webber wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>
>>This is a critical article by the American historian Mark Weber:
>
>
>>             *** SIMON WIESENTHAL: Bogus "Nazi Hunter" ***
>> 
>>                             by Mark Weber
>>-- 
>
>>Posted by Ole Kreiberg 
>>--
>
>It' s probably so obvious that it doesn't need to be said, but I'll
>say it anyway:
>
>(1)  The Mark Weber with one "b" isn't a historian, but a well-known
>holocaust denier whose credibility in serious academic circles and
>everywhere except his little circle of fellow falisfiers is zilch
>[zero]..

So you claim that he is not a historian. He graduated from Indiana 
University in 1977 with M.A. in history. 

>
>(2)  The Mark Weber with one "b" isn't the same person as MW with two
>"b"s (at least not the last time I looked in the mirror).
>
>(3)  Ole Kreiberg is also well-known for his support of the
>one-"b"-Weberians of this world.

Yes I am a staunch suporter of free speech and thruth in history. Secondly
I regard myself as a kind self-styled lawyer of the defense for the German 
Nazis, old as well as new. In a constitutional democracy even the worst 
criminal has right to defend himself and be defended by a lawyer. I demand 
these rights from the German government. 

  Like a lawyer, performing the defense of e.g. thieves and bank-robbers, 
does not have to be a bankrobber or a thief himself or even to symphatize
with such acts, I am of course not a Nazi myself. I regard nazism a 
particular German phenomena grown out of the particular authoritarian
German mentality. Hitler said that national socialism knows only Germany, 
and is not meant for export. You may then ask me why I am meddling 
in this internal German affair. The answer is that the German government
has tried to pressure the Danish politicians to make laws concerning German
history, as well as they have bullied Denmark in a problem it had with the
USA about an American thought-criminal - a problem which did not concern 
Denmark at all. I regard the German government an enemy who wants to limit 
my freedom of speech like in 1940-45. Because the Germans once did something 
bad against the Jews, the Danes have to have their freedom of speech limited. 
Do you think that this is fair? No Danes participated in actions against the 
Jews during WW2. The Jews themselves even claim that it was the Danish 
people who saved most of the Danish Jews from being deported to 
Theresienstadt. How dare the impudent German government approach Denmark as 
if we had the slightes part in the German guilt? 

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Feb 14 07:50:29 PST 1996
Article: 13802 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Aryans and India
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:36:05 +0100
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In article <4fo5te$1kaj@hearst.cac.psu.edu>, Tuthmosis III  wrote:
>    What I know of the ancient civilization that existed in the Indus 
>Valley is this : When the Aryan hordes or Germanic hordes , (what ever 
>they were) finally dispersed sometime before 2000 bc ; Vast civilizations 
>had already been set up by blacks in many parts of the world . When i say 
>blacks I mean blacks ; the people of India are and were , blacks . Anyhow 
>; when the Aryans arrived in India where they found the great 
>civilization created by the great black people of India. 

Sure the culture of the black people was great, but unfortunately for them 
it was not as great as that of the Aryans. That is why the White Aryans 
ended in the top of the social order. The White Aryans are on top of 
evolution. Just take a look on Latin-America where the population mostly 
are a mixture of Whites, Red Indians and Blacks. The higher you come on the 
social latter the Whiter the skin-colour in general. I do not blame the 
coloured people for their natural and inborn insufficiencies in comparison 
to White people. I just regard this nature's order of things. Trying to 
deny this or fight against it, is madness. When I speak of race I mean a 
race as a unified whole. Claiming that all Blacks are stupid would be just 
as wrong as claiming that all Whites are intelligent. Of course there are
many intelligent Black people and many stupid White people. It is just a 
fact that there are proportionally many more intelligent and creative people 
in the White race than in the Black race, and that there are proportionally 
many more unintelligent people in the Black race.

                                            
> they described 
>the people as having snub noses and thick lips . Thier features reminded 
>them of the demons in thier mythology . They overpowered and ruled the 
>indigenous population and installed a caste system which had the darkest 
>of people at the bottom and the lightest of course , with the most power 
>and wealth . Evidence of this can still be seen in the present population 
>today . It is the Brahmans who have the lightest of skin and the Sudras , 
>the untouchables who are the darkest . 

You are right apart from the fact that the Sudras are not the untouchables. 
The Sudras are just the lowest cast according to the Vedas. The untouchables 
or the Candalas (litt. dog eaters) are casteless and are supposed to be of 
mixed ancestry - the offspring of sexual connection between Aryan women and 
Non-Aryan men. That is why they are regarded particular abominable.

>   So , once again ; we have the same familiar situation in which whites 
>met up with blacks and where the blacks have been responsible for the 
>development of early civilization . 

Hm I doubt that very much.

>
>Two questions for you racists : If whites are so superior ; why did 
>technical civilization not emerge in the Eurasian steeps or in the heart 
>of Europe ?

The Industrial revolution began in England. 

>And if you are still hopelessly claiming that the peoples of ancient 
>Egypt , Elam , Indus Valley , were whites ; Why did it take the meeting 
>of whites with blacks for so many creative aptitudes to appear ? 
>

The Egyptian civilisation went down in time with the original White people
who created and sustained this civilisation became mixed up with Black
people slowly oozing in from the south. The original Egyptians were of
Mediterranean White race.

>By no means am I implying that blacks , or peoples of varying skin shades 
>are superior to others . Im just probing the reason of those who do . 
>
>Tuthmosis III     
>

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Feb 14 08:03:42 PST 1996
Article: 18718 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Aryans and India
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:36:05 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
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References:  <4fo5te$1kaj@hearst.cac.psu.edu>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:13802 alt.politics.white-power:18718

In article <4fo5te$1kaj@hearst.cac.psu.edu>, Tuthmosis III  wrote:
>    What I know of the ancient civilization that existed in the Indus 
>Valley is this : When the Aryan hordes or Germanic hordes , (what ever 
>they were) finally dispersed sometime before 2000 bc ; Vast civilizations 
>had already been set up by blacks in many parts of the world . When i say 
>blacks I mean blacks ; the people of India are and were , blacks . Anyhow 
>; when the Aryans arrived in India where they found the great 
>civilization created by the great black people of India. 

Sure the culture of the black people was great, but unfortunately for them 
it was not as great as that of the Aryans. That is why the White Aryans 
ended in the top of the social order. The White Aryans are on top of 
evolution. Just take a look on Latin-America where the population mostly 
are a mixture of Whites, Red Indians and Blacks. The higher you come on the 
social latter the Whiter the skin-colour in general. I do not blame the 
coloured people for their natural and inborn insufficiencies in comparison 
to White people. I just regard this nature's order of things. Trying to 
deny this or fight against it, is madness. When I speak of race I mean a 
race as a unified whole. Claiming that all Blacks are stupid would be just 
as wrong as claiming that all Whites are intelligent. Of course there are
many intelligent Black people and many stupid White people. It is just a 
fact that there are proportionally many more intelligent and creative people 
in the White race than in the Black race, and that there are proportionally 
many more unintelligent people in the Black race.

                                            
> they described 
>the people as having snub noses and thick lips . Thier features reminded 
>them of the demons in thier mythology . They overpowered and ruled the 
>indigenous population and installed a caste system which had the darkest 
>of people at the bottom and the lightest of course , with the most power 
>and wealth . Evidence of this can still be seen in the present population 
>today . It is the Brahmans who have the lightest of skin and the Sudras , 
>the untouchables who are the darkest . 

You are right apart from the fact that the Sudras are not the untouchables. 
The Sudras are just the lowest cast according to the Vedas. The untouchables 
or the Candalas (litt. dog eaters) are casteless and are supposed to be of 
mixed ancestry - the offspring of sexual connection between Aryan women and 
Non-Aryan men. That is why they are regarded particular abominable.

>   So , once again ; we have the same familiar situation in which whites 
>met up with blacks and where the blacks have been responsible for the 
>development of early civilization . 

Hm I doubt that very much.

>
>Two questions for you racists : If whites are so superior ; why did 
>technical civilization not emerge in the Eurasian steeps or in the heart 
>of Europe ?

The Industrial revolution began in England. 

>And if you are still hopelessly claiming that the peoples of ancient 
>Egypt , Elam , Indus Valley , were whites ; Why did it take the meeting 
>of whites with blacks for so many creative aptitudes to appear ? 
>

The Egyptian civilisation went down in time with the original White people
who created and sustained this civilisation became mixed up with Black
people slowly oozing in from the south. The original Egyptians were of
Mediterranean White race.

>By no means am I implying that blacks , or peoples of varying skin shades 
>are superior to others . Im just probing the reason of those who do . 
>
>Tuthmosis III     
>

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Feb 17 09:49:24 PST 1996
Article: 13952 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: More about Aryans and India
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 09:54:27 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:13952 alt.politics.white-power:18983

Mind Wipe wrote:
>I deal heavily with multicultural enginering topics, since most top 
>level engineers aren't white, but are literally the best from every 
>culture, and I have a few East Indian co-workers who have told me about 
>their gods, Krishna, Rama, and especially Arjun.  Now as I take it, 
>Aryan is really the people of Arjun.  

  Nonsens, Arjuna (not mispelled Arjun) is not a God. He is an Aryan prince
and the main character of the Bhagad Gita. Being of Royal family he is a 
member of the warrior caste and therefore not a God but a human being. 

>Arjun was the best friend of Krisna, who was dark.  

  Krisna is God himself. Krisna also means black in Sanskrit. However in the
Vedic litteratur he is described of bluish colour (cyan) and in statues 
in many Hindu temples, he is blue. However he is God and not man, and is 
therefore not composed of the same of earthly material (prakrit).  In the 
pure spiritual realm of God (vaikuntha) "humans" as well as God are 
supposed to be blue as the sky. The realm of God is suppoesed to be beyond 
the sky. 
    
>Arjun, I take it must have been light colored.  

Gee, how do you know that for sure?

>Now Krisna translated into english, the son of God, means Christ.  
>As we all know, Christ was dark.

  Do we all know that? Jesus was a Jew who even once described himself as 
the King of the Jews. He would probably have looked like the sephatic
Jews of today, that is like the people of the Middle East. And remember
Krisna was never the son of God but God himself.

  Please let me quote from the ancient Hindu lawbook, the Manu-samhita.
  
  A girl belonging to his own caste is recommended to a Brahmana [a man of
the highest caste] for holy wedlock... Let him not marry a girl of brown 
complexion, or one with a limb in less or excess, one who is pronounced 
invalid...
 
...By marrying a lowcaste [Non-Aryan] woman through the intoxication of 
desire (passion), a twice-born one [an Aryan] degrades himself, with nine  
generation of his progeny to the status of a Sudra [a lowcaste Non-Aryan]

...The King shall cause the defilers of other men's wives to be banished
>from  the country. Since it is through such men that hybridisation of castes
is effected; and intermixture of castes is the primal cause of vice which
leads to universal destruction.

...For having visited a woman of superior caste a man of inferior caste 
must be punished with death, but for having visited a girl of his own 
caste, the father of the girl ask for a money compensation (lit, duty), 
he shall to pay to the father.

>From  Manusmriti translated by Manmatha Nath Dutt M.A., Varanasi 1979

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Feb 17 09:52:06 PST 1996
Article: 18983 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: More about Aryans and India
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 09:54:27 +0100
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Mind Wipe wrote:
>I deal heavily with multicultural enginering topics, since most top 
>level engineers aren't white, but are literally the best from every 
>culture, and I have a few East Indian co-workers who have told me about 
>their gods, Krishna, Rama, and especially Arjun.  Now as I take it, 
>Aryan is really the people of Arjun.  

  Nonsens, Arjuna (not mispelled Arjun) is not a God. He is an Aryan prince
and the main character of the Bhagad Gita. Being of Royal family he is a 
member of the warrior caste and therefore not a God but a human being. 

>Arjun was the best friend of Krisna, who was dark.  

  Krisna is God himself. Krisna also means black in Sanskrit. However in the
Vedic litteratur he is described of bluish colour (cyan) and in statues 
in many Hindu temples, he is blue. However he is God and not man, and is 
therefore not composed of the same of earthly material (prakrit).  In the 
pure spiritual realm of God (vaikuntha) "humans" as well as God are 
supposed to be blue as the sky. The realm of God is suppoesed to be beyond 
the sky. 
    
>Arjun, I take it must have been light colored.  

Gee, how do you know that for sure?

>Now Krisna translated into english, the son of God, means Christ.  
>As we all know, Christ was dark.

  Do we all know that? Jesus was a Jew who even once described himself as 
the King of the Jews. He would probably have looked like the sephatic
Jews of today, that is like the people of the Middle East. And remember
Krisna was never the son of God but God himself.

  Please let me quote from the ancient Hindu lawbook, the Manu-samhita.
  
  A girl belonging to his own caste is recommended to a Brahmana [a man of
the highest caste] for holy wedlock... Let him not marry a girl of brown 
complexion, or one with a limb in less or excess, one who is pronounced 
invalid...
 
...By marrying a lowcaste [Non-Aryan] woman through the intoxication of 
desire (passion), a twice-born one [an Aryan] degrades himself, with nine  
generation of his progeny to the status of a Sudra [a lowcaste Non-Aryan]

...The King shall cause the defilers of other men's wives to be banished
>from  the country. Since it is through such men that hybridisation of castes
is effected; and intermixture of castes is the primal cause of vice which
leads to universal destruction.

...For having visited a woman of superior caste a man of inferior caste 
must be punished with death, but for having visited a girl of his own 
caste, the father of the girl ask for a money compensation (lit, duty), 
he shall to pay to the father.

>From  Manusmriti translated by Manmatha Nath Dutt M.A., Varanasi 1979

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 19 08:37:39 PST 1996
Article: 24158 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Confession by A Lithuanian Jew
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:42:01 +0100
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       This is an excerpt from an essay by Aleksandras Shtromas, a
       professor of political science at Hillsdale College (Michigan) who
       was interned during the Second World War in the Kaunas (Lithuania)
       Ghetto. Published in The World & I (Washington,DC), February 1992,
       pp. 572, 577:


         It is a fact that more than half of the membership of the tiny
       pre-Soviet Lithuanian Communist Party, about a eight hundred
       people, were Jews . It is also a fact that these Jewish Communists
       in 1940 and 1941 played prominent roles in the Soviet occupation
       administration of Lithuania. The most notorious interrogators of
       the Lithuanian branch of Soviet security police, the NKVD, were
       Lithuanian Jewish communists, and many such Jewish communists
       manned the NKVD detachments, which randomly arrested and deported
       to Siberia the alleged class enemies and other so-called "anti-
       Soviet elements" of Lithuania.
         No wonder then that as soon as the Lithuanians got rid of the
       Soviets (this they did in a national uprising on the first day of
       the Soviet-German war [June 22,1941], taking control of the
       country long before the German troops were able to occupy it), a
       series of wild Jewish pogroms broke out in the country, the first
       Jewish progroms on Lituanian soil in the whole 600-year-old
       history of Lithuanian-Jewish cohabition. It is believed that in
       Kaunas alone 3800 Jews were killed during these progroms. Along
       with these spontaneous acts of violence the Lithuanian rebel
       troops started indiscriminately arresting Jews for their
       "collaboration with the Soviets" in a more organized but not less
       random fashion. In Kaunas, the thus arrested alleged Jewish
       collaborators of the Soviets were assembled in a huge garage and
       cruelly massacred there the next day. My father was one of the
       victims of that Lietukis garage massacre. The German troops
       marched into Kaunas on the day of this massacre only to witness
       the last instants of that bloody orgy.
         ... As a Jew, I must reject the assumption that we Jews forever
       were just the faultless and powerless victims of other people's
       abuse and injustices, and must admit our own faults, such as, for
       example: our certain insensitivity to some of the grave problems
       facing our Gentile countrymen; our self-centredness that only too
       often urged some of us to seek our particular goals without giving
       much consideration to how the achievement of these goals would
       effect the interests of others; the frivolousness that what is
       good for the Jews must be even better for the Gentiles. Too many
       of us, let by such considerations, were more than ready to engage
       ourselves thoughtlessly in all kinds of subversive and
       revolutionary activities threatening the integrity and even
       survival of our host countries. For this we have to confess our
       guilt.

       Posted by Ole Kreiberg

  
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 19 10:35:30 PST 1996
Article: 68378 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: The Polish Jews during WW2
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:09:50 +0100
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In article <4fnju1$34f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Deja Pooh wrote:
>How the unwanted Truth are received: "First it is ridiculed, then fought
>violently, for at last to be accepted self-evident"
>
>Seems to me that you are fighting violently against the truth of the
>Holocost. Sad.

  Violently?? me?? How?? The foul and vile German government, the enemy 
number one of the freedom of speech is imprisoning people who are 
disagreeing with the established holocaust story. I myself have never 
committed any violent acts.

Ole Kreiberg


--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Feb 21 20:14:48 PST 1996
Article: 14184 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Nigerian-Finn selected as Miss Finland 1996
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 19:16:24 +0100
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>bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>
>>Eugene Holman (holman@katk.helsinki.fi) writes:
>
>>> This is a highly remarkable development in a country with a 'black
>>> population' of approximately one pro mille, with an overabundance of
>>> attractive blond-haired, blue-eyed women, and where beauty contests are
>>> taken dead seriously as exercises in international public relations.
>
>>Just what we need:  ANOTHER moronic Scandanavian to join evil "Foot-boy"
>>Beavis' club.
>
>>Les

  Eugene Holman is not a Scandinavian but an American (probably a Jew as
far as I can understand from a debate I had with him in soc.culture.nordic) 
living in Finland. Finland is one of those countries in Europe which has
the most restrictive policy toward immigration of so-called political 
"refugees".

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Feb 21 20:16:11 PST 1996
Article: 19433 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Nigerian-Finn selected as Miss Finland 1996
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 19:16:24 +0100
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>bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>
>>Eugene Holman (holman@katk.helsinki.fi) writes:
>
>>> This is a highly remarkable development in a country with a 'black
>>> population' of approximately one pro mille, with an overabundance of
>>> attractive blond-haired, blue-eyed women, and where beauty contests are
>>> taken dead seriously as exercises in international public relations.
>
>>Just what we need:  ANOTHER moronic Scandanavian to join evil "Foot-boy"
>>Beavis' club.
>
>>Les

  Eugene Holman is not a Scandinavian but an American (probably a Jew as
far as I can understand from a debate I had with him in soc.culture.nordic) 
living in Finland. Finland is one of those countries in Europe which has
the most restrictive policy toward immigration of so-called political 
"refugees".

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Feb 22 13:12:02 PST 1996
Article: 14211 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Aryans and India
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 20:43:09 +0100
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In article , Rubin Friedman wrote:
>
>Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) writes:

>Can we please get this straight.
>
>We have absolutely no idea what colour Aryans were.  They came from
>Central Asia around Lake Van.  

They descended from the Western Turan, the area around the Caspian See, 
north of Iran.

>
>"They" are people who spoke related languages.  "They" could have been a
>racially mixed horde for all we know.  Similarly, there is no proof that
>there were "no" people with light colour skins in India before the
>invasion of the Aryans.

There is a lot which indicates that they were at least whiter than the
Non-Aryans whom they called Dasas or Dasyus and referred to as flatnosed 
or rather noseless. In the Rigveda they speak about the Aryanvarna and the 
Dasyuvarna. The word, varna means both colour and caste. Indra the King of 
the demi-gods and tutelary deity of the Aryans hates the colour of the 
dasyus. Even today you will find differences in skincolour and features 
between the highcaste Hindus and the lowcaste Hindus in particular in the
Northwestern area which was the major settlement area of Aryans known as 
Aryavarta. There are so much which indicates this, that the burden of proof 
lies with those who deny a racial dissimilarity. You are only right in one 
thing, one does not exactly know how they looked like, as there has not been 
found any archaeological relics of the past Aryans.

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 26 15:04:02 PST 1996
Article: 14595 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Who's 'White'?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:08:14 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:20109 alt.politics.nationalism.white:14595

In article , Eugene Holman wrote:
>In article <9mYBnOev1uQC065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>
>> 
>>   Has it ever worked the abovementioned way? I doubt that. I have no 
>> problem in singling out who is White and who is not White. All ethnic
>> Europeans are White (The same goes of course with the descendants of 
>> European settlers oversees e.g. Euro-Americans, Euro-Australians, Euro- 
>> South-Africans and so on). 
>
>What about those who are three-quarters, seven-eighths, or
>fifteen-sixteenths 'white'? The legal system in many American states
>defines such individuals as non-white, i.e. ARKANSAS 41-808. "Person of
>Negro race defined:... defines "person of Negro race as "any person who
>has in his or her veins any Negro blood whatsoever." (Acts 1911, No. 320,
>Sec. 3, p. 295.)
>
>I myself am, as far as I know, the descendant of people of African,
>American Indian, English, Dutch, and Spanish origin. Because my pigment is
>dark and my hair somewhat curly, I am regarded as 'black' or, even more
>absurdly, 'African American'. The truth is, however, much more complex.
>
  What is so complex about that? You are a person of mixed race, that is all. 

Ole Kreiberg

  
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 26 15:04:05 PST 1996
Article: 14596 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Who's 'White'?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:46:26 +0100
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In article , Eugene Holman wrote:
>In article <9mYBnOev1uQC065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>> In article , Eugene Holman
>wrote:
>
>In the US it doesn't work that way. At an American university you are not
>going to find a person with a name like Melvin Czechowicz, Joe Costello,
>or Zoltan Nagy in a 'White House'-type fraternity. Jews are excluded by
>religion, and Catholics as well as southern and eastern Europeans for
>other reasons. Not even all Americans would accept a person named 'Ole
>Kreiberg' as 'White', because the surname sounds too Jewish and the given
>name for many Americans, is just off the wall. The Ku Klux Klan, that
>bastion of Whiteness, works according to essentially the same
>understanding of 'White'.
>

  I think that you confuse race with American national identity. I think the 
above-mentioned rather refer to who is accepted as a true American of White 
Anglo Saxon Protestant origin. 

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 26 15:06:12 PST 1996
Article: 20109 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Who's 'White'?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:08:14 +0100
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In article , Eugene Holman wrote:
>In article <9mYBnOev1uQC065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>
>> 
>>   Has it ever worked the abovementioned way? I doubt that. I have no 
>> problem in singling out who is White and who is not White. All ethnic
>> Europeans are White (The same goes of course with the descendants of 
>> European settlers oversees e.g. Euro-Americans, Euro-Australians, Euro- 
>> South-Africans and so on). 
>
>What about those who are three-quarters, seven-eighths, or
>fifteen-sixteenths 'white'? The legal system in many American states
>defines such individuals as non-white, i.e. ARKANSAS 41-808. "Person of
>Negro race defined:... defines "person of Negro race as "any person who
>has in his or her veins any Negro blood whatsoever." (Acts 1911, No. 320,
>Sec. 3, p. 295.)
>
>I myself am, as far as I know, the descendant of people of African,
>American Indian, English, Dutch, and Spanish origin. Because my pigment is
>dark and my hair somewhat curly, I am regarded as 'black' or, even more
>absurdly, 'African American'. The truth is, however, much more complex.
>
  What is so complex about that? You are a person of mixed race, that is all. 

Ole Kreiberg

  
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 26 15:06:13 PST 1996
Article: 20110 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Who's 'White'?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:46:26 +0100
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In article , Eugene Holman wrote:
>In article <9mYBnOev1uQC065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>> In article , Eugene Holman
>wrote:
>
>In the US it doesn't work that way. At an American university you are not
>going to find a person with a name like Melvin Czechowicz, Joe Costello,
>or Zoltan Nagy in a 'White House'-type fraternity. Jews are excluded by
>religion, and Catholics as well as southern and eastern Europeans for
>other reasons. Not even all Americans would accept a person named 'Ole
>Kreiberg' as 'White', because the surname sounds too Jewish and the given
>name for many Americans, is just off the wall. The Ku Klux Klan, that
>bastion of Whiteness, works according to essentially the same
>understanding of 'White'.
>

  I think that you confuse race with American national identity. I think the 
above-mentioned rather refer to who is accepted as a true American of White 
Anglo Saxon Protestant origin. 

Ole Kreiberg

--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 26 15:06:13 PST 1996
Article: 20111 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Negros Origin of mankind!
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:29:45 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:112379 alt.politics.white-power:20111

In article <199602262006.UAA38052@r02n07.cac.psu.edu>, THE MIGHTY KUSHITE  wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>>
>>  The Ancient egyptians were ethnic closely related to the Berbers, the 
>>indiginous population of North Africa. The Berbers are, if they are unmixed
>>of White Mediterreanoid race. So were the the Ancient Egyptians. 
>>
>>  The ancient Egypt declined in time with inmixture of Negro genes into
>>the genepool of it's population. The cause of the decline of ancient
>>Egypt is miscegenation and nothing else.
>>
>>Ole Kreiberg
>>
>>--
>
>
>That is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen . It was Champollion 
>Figeac who first asertted that the ancient Egyptians were of the same 
>race as the Berbers . This IDEA was later refuted , thanks to the science 
>of Anthropology . The cephalic index of the ancients  share all 
>affinities with the people of ancient Ethiopia . The cranial morphology 
>with the exception of facial prognathism is shared by some southern 
>Europeans  . But the morphology as a whole , is closer to Africans than 
>Europeans . 

That is because they already had become mongrels. 

G Maspero writes in the History of Egypt p.260:

  "The large number of Black women found in the harems of the rich, and even 
   in the huts of the common people, quickly impaired the purity the race, 
   even among the upper classes of the nation, and the types began to 
   resemble that of the Negro tribes of Equatorial Africa. The language 
   fared no better in the face of this invasion, and the written characters
   soon became as corrupt as the language. The taste for art decayed;
   technical ability began deteriorate, The moral and intellectual standards
   declined and the mass of the people showed signs of relapsing into 
   barbarism."

>It is the long headed characteristic and the facial 
>prognathism , that tells us that they were no different from other 
>ancient East african peoples . But it was and is the work of  
>eurocentrists and ideologists ,who would rather place the Egyptians in a 
>category with the white race ; that brings us to contemporay Egyptology 
>and the IDEA that the Egyptians were of the caucasion race .   

  The Ethiopians are not pure Blacks but rather mongrels of indiginous
Blacks and White people from North Africa of the same type as the Berbers 
and ancient Egyptians. The Ethiopians speak a Hamitic language like the 
Berbers. Until Emperor Haile Salassie was dethroned and with him the old
social order, the Etiopian upper class or nobility was more light-skinned
than the common people.

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Feb 26 16:28:44 PST 1996
Article: 112379 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Negros Origin of mankind!
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:29:45 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:112379 alt.politics.white-power:20111

In article <199602262006.UAA38052@r02n07.cac.psu.edu>, THE MIGHTY KUSHITE  wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>>
>>  The Ancient egyptians were ethnic closely related to the Berbers, the 
>>indiginous population of North Africa. The Berbers are, if they are unmixed
>>of White Mediterreanoid race. So were the the Ancient Egyptians. 
>>
>>  The ancient Egypt declined in time with inmixture of Negro genes into
>>the genepool of it's population. The cause of the decline of ancient
>>Egypt is miscegenation and nothing else.
>>
>>Ole Kreiberg
>>
>>--
>
>
>That is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen . It was Champollion 
>Figeac who first asertted that the ancient Egyptians were of the same 
>race as the Berbers . This IDEA was later refuted , thanks to the science 
>of Anthropology . The cephalic index of the ancients  share all 
>affinities with the people of ancient Ethiopia . The cranial morphology 
>with the exception of facial prognathism is shared by some southern 
>Europeans  . But the morphology as a whole , is closer to Africans than 
>Europeans . 

That is because they already had become mongrels. 

G Maspero writes in the History of Egypt p.260:

  "The large number of Black women found in the harems of the rich, and even 
   in the huts of the common people, quickly impaired the purity the race, 
   even among the upper classes of the nation, and the types began to 
   resemble that of the Negro tribes of Equatorial Africa. The language 
   fared no better in the face of this invasion, and the written characters
   soon became as corrupt as the language. The taste for art decayed;
   technical ability began deteriorate, The moral and intellectual standards
   declined and the mass of the people showed signs of relapsing into 
   barbarism."

>It is the long headed characteristic and the facial 
>prognathism , that tells us that they were no different from other 
>ancient East african peoples . But it was and is the work of  
>eurocentrists and ideologists ,who would rather place the Egyptians in a 
>category with the white race ; that brings us to contemporay Egyptology 
>and the IDEA that the Egyptians were of the caucasion race .   

  The Ethiopians are not pure Blacks but rather mongrels of indiginous
Blacks and White people from North Africa of the same type as the Berbers 
and ancient Egyptians. The Ethiopians speak a Hamitic language like the 
Berbers. Until Emperor Haile Salassie was dethroned and with him the old
social order, the Etiopian upper class or nobility was more light-skinned
than the common people.

Ole Kreiberg
--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Feb 27 07:45:46 PST 1996
Article: 25251 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More about the Polish Jews during WW2
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:58:09 +0100
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In article <4gc8rr$qj4@sat.ipp-garching.mpg.de>, Jean-Marc Schwartz wrote:
>In article <-5GAnOev1Gx2065yn@login.dknet.dk>, Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) 
>says...
>>
>>  What really happened to the millions of Jews who lived in Poland before 
>>the WW2? 
>>
>>(...)
>
>
>Your mathematics look foreign to me :
>you have 1914000 Jews in the German occupied part of Poland in 1939,
>and 240489 in 1946. What with the difference ?

  You forget that all the Jews living in the area occupied by the Soviets. 
Remember that Poland never got this part back from the Sovjets. The 240489 
is the number living in Western Poland. We do not know how many lived in 
Eastern Poland after the war.

  In 1939 the Jews in Poland was dispersed as follows:

              Areas incoperated  by Germany   534000  (20.3 %)
              Government General of Poland   1073000  (40.8 %)
              ------------------------------------------------
              Under German administration    1607000  (61.0 %)
              Annexed by the Soviet Union    1026000  (39.0 %)
              ------------------------------------------------
              Former Polish Jews (1939)      2633000  (100.0%)

  After the escape of of at least 750000 Jews from Western Poland to 
  Soviet occupied Eastern Poland:

              Areas under German control      757000  (28.8 %)
              Areas under Soviet control     1776000  (67.5 %) 
              Refugees in Rumania             100000  ( 3.8 %)
              ------------------------------------------------
              Polish Jews (end of 1939)      2633000  (100.0%)
>
>If "it is not known, how many Jews fled to Western Europe and from there 
>to Palestine and the USA" is your only argument, you can pack in your theory.


Jews in Western Poland in the end of 1939     757000
and after the war                             240489
----------------------------------------------------
Number of Jews missing from the statistics    516511 

  How many of these Jews were killed by the Germans, how many died from  
the many epidemics of typhoid fever, and how many fled to the west at the 
end of the war?

Ole Kreiberg

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From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Feb 28 07:33:43 PST 1996
Article: 20309 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Negros Origin of mankind!
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:16:50 +0100
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References: <1996Feb5.163602.1@ucsvax> 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:112423 alt.politics.white-power:20309


  The Ancient egyptians were ethnic closely related to the Berbers, the 
indiginous population of North Africa. The Berbers are, if they are unmixed
of White Mediterreanoid race. So were the the Ancient Egyptians. 

  The ancient Egypt declined in time with inmixture of Negro genes into
the genepool of it's population. The cause of the decline of ancient
Egypt is miscegenation and nothing else.

Ole Kreiberg

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From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Feb 28 10:22:49 PST 1996
Article: 69097 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: A Lithuanian Jew Speaks out
Date: 27 Feb 1996 10:29:41 GMT
Organization: DKnet / Login Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4gumel$8ks@news.dknet.dk>
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zra60100@baracke.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Michael Resch) writes:

>Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) wrote:
>:          ... As a Jew,

>sorry. but times are over that human beings had to speak
>"as jew", "as a christian", "as a muslim", "as a german",
>"as a russain", ..... this is the net. you speak as a
>normal user which is a human being.

>michael (MiR)

>:        Posted by Ole Kreiberg
>is there anything important _you_ have to say?

      Sure. 
      
         So you authoritarian and submissive German think that it is not
       political correct to mention if somebody is e.g. a Jew. Is it
       something your crazy government has ordered you to think? Will the
       STASI or the foul Verfassungschutz, as you call it in the BDR,
       have you picked you up, if you disobey. The "Fuhrer befehl - Wir
       folgen dir" mentality did not die in 1945. Did I commit a thought-
       crime in mentioning his Jewish ancestry? What is wrong with that.
       I am proud of my nordic Danish ancestry.

         To me the German mentality is as alien as the Chinese and the
       Arab, and I only wish that Denmark could get out of the ugly EU as
       quick as possible.


       Ole Kreiberg

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From olk@login.dknet.dk Thu Feb 29 07:18:14 PST 1996
Article: 69202 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: A Lithuanian Jew Speaks out
Date: 28 Feb 1996 21:20:54 GMT
Organization: DKnet / Login Service
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References: <1GTCnOev1yG0065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4gssrt$3t3k@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> <4gumel$8ks@news.dknet.dk> <4gv6jj$35us@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
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zra60100@baracke.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Michael Resch) writes:

>Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) wrote:
>:          So you authoritarian and submissive German think...

>i'm very sorry for you but i'm not german.
>now is there anything left you would like to add?

  What are you then? An Austrian? I regard Austrians as a kind of 
Germans. Remember Hitler was Austrian.

Ole Kreiberg

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