The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/h/holman.eugene/2001/holman.0111


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Thu Nov  1 12:11:03 EST 2001
Article: 979115 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: tom moran's Loyalty and Objectivity
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:16:10 +0300
Organization: University of Helsinki
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In article <3BD9E6B9.87D57F71@earthlink.net>, "Richard G. Phillips"
 wrote:

> 
> ===============================================
> Phillips
> 
> Your first mistake is to confuse a nation with its government; the two
> are not the same. 

Athough admittedly not the same, there is a question of definition. In
this forum you have expressed more than once opinions according to
which the American nation constitutes a microscopic portion of the
citizenry of the United States. In particular, you have claimed for
youself the right to be a member of the American nation while
challenging the right of three of the most powerful members of the
American government, Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security
Advisor Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy Secretary of Defence Paul
Wolfowitz (a Jew and an ald college associate of mine, btw) to consider
themselves members of the American nation. As you have seen, very few
people share your viewpoint.

> ===============================================
> Phillips 
> 
> Your second mistake is to take concurrence with a
> government as the measure of loyalty to a nation; the two have nothing
> to do with each other.

A statement like that underscores the danger of technical education
with no humanist background. Since the Romantic Era there has been a
strong tendency in Europe and the parts of the world influenced by
European culture to have as large an overlap as possible between
nations and governments. Since both are artificial constructs, those
who control the channels of information are at a great advantage when
it come to manipulating people to be sensitive to these two concepts.

> ===============================================
> Phillips
> 
> From every quarter we are told that we must rally behind the pres, that
> this is no time for dissent. Speaking for myself, I am not especially
> inspired by the tailor's dummy whom the Plutocracy happens to have
> picked for the years 2000-2004 and, far from agreeing that this is no
> time for dissent, I maintain it is the best possible time.

If I remember correctly, Richard Phillips rejoiced that Bush rather
than Gore became president, despite the fact that Gore received several
hundred thousand more popular votes.

> ===============================================
> Phillips
> 
> I want to see
> some very embarrassing questions asked as to just WHY this thing
> happened to us and I also want to see more questions asked about why we
> were so defenceless.

If terrorists attack from within the US using such original weapons as
hijacked airlinrs on kamikaze missions or anthrax-tainted envelopes, do
you really think that there is a defense?

> ===============================================
> Phillips
> 
> Certainly I want to see us get our own back on the Fuzzy-wuzzies, but I
> consider the questions far more important.
> 

In a perverse way I agree with you. Even though I have cut most of my
contacts with the US, I still have kith and kin there and cannot be
indifferent to terrorist attacks on the land of my birth. It seems to
me that Americans have to admit that they are vulnerable like everyone
else in this world, and that no amount of precaution can prevent a
brilliantly implemented act of terrorism [for that is what it was] such
as we saw on Sept. 11. Welcome to the real world!

Regards, 
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Thu Nov  1 12:11:03 EST 2001
Article: 979651 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
Subject: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:38:42 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
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Message-ID: <291020011838425578%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
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In article <3BDB43A4.4CF0D1BE@earthlink.net>, "Richard G. Phillips"
 wrote:

> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> 
> > In article <3BDB2A1E.79441FA3@telus.net>, Werner Knoll 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I wonder what Charles Krauthammer had in mind when he wrote about "Major
> > > Jewish Demos"? I wonder who Leuchter said that some of his clients were
> > > warnet not to do business with him?
> >
> > Tell us, old fool.
> >
> > Which organizations supposedly warned Leuchter's clients not to do business
> > with
> > him?
> 
> ================================================
> Phillips
> 
> Which Jews were gassed at Auschwitz?
> 
> ==============================

For starters, 762 Norwegian Jews:

A document from the Stettin police documents that a train carrying 532
Norwegian Jews left the northern platform of the railway station at
Danzig at 15.00 on November 30, 1942, arriving at Auschwitz the next
evening at 21:00. This is accompanied by a list of the names of the 532
Jews that were included in the transport

(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d06c06/norw22z3.html).
This is the last record we have of these people. Only a handful have
ever been seen or heard from since. A further 168 Jews were arrested in
a dragnet of Oslo in February 1943. They were sent to Berlin where they
joined a transport of Jews from Berlin and sent to Auschwitz, with only
a few surviving the camp and the war. The majority were selected fro
extermination on or soon after arrival. This was long before allied air
attacks were cutting supply  and after the summer 1942 typhus epidemic
at Auschwitz.


Source:
http://www.krigsavisene.com/artikler/krigsavisene_del29_when_holocaust_r
eached_norway.htm



On November 30th the prisoners were transferred to freight cars and a
new sad and especially tragic train journey brought 530 Norwegian Jews
to the Polish extermination camp Auschwitz. Of the 530 Norwegian Jews
186 able-bodied men were selected, while the women and children were
either shot out of hand or driven into the gas chambers. They had not
been seen fit to use for slave labour. 



Approximately 30 of the almost 800 Norwegian Jews deported from Norway
to Auschwitz survived the war. They serve as an important source of
evidence concerning the fates of their wives, siblings, parents, and
children.

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Thu Nov  1 23:22:55 EST 2001
Article: 997377 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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In article <3BDB43A4.4CF0D1BE@earthlink.net>, "Richard G. Phillips"
 wrote:

> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> 
> > In article <3BDB2A1E.79441FA3@telus.net>, Werner Knoll 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I wonder what Charles Krauthammer had in mind when he wrote about "Major
> > > Jewish Demos"? I wonder who Leuchter said that some of his clients were
> > > warnet not to do business with him?
> >
> > Tell us, old fool.
> >
> > Which organizations supposedly warned Leuchter's clients not to do business
> > with
> > him?
> 
> ================================================
> Phillips
> 
> Which Jews were gassed at Auschwitz?
> 
> ==============================

For starters, 762 Norwegian Jews:

A document from the Stettin police documents that a train carrying 532
Norwegian Jews left the northern platform of the railway station at
Danzig at 15.00 on November 30, 1942, arriving at Auschwitz the next
evening at 21:00. This is accompanied by a list of the names of the 532
Jews that were included in the transport

(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d06c06/norw22z3.html).
This is the last record we have of these people. Only a handful have
ever been seen or heard from since. A further 168 Jews were arrested in
a dragnet of Oslo in February 1943. They were sent to Berlin where they
joined a transport of Jews from Berlin and sent to Auschwitz, with only
a few surviving the camp and the war. The majority were selected fro
extermination on or soon after arrival. This was long before allied air
attacks were cutting supply  and after the summer 1942 typhus epidemic
at Auschwitz.


Source:
http://www.krigsavisene.com/artikler/krigsavisene_del29_when_holocaust_r
eached_norway.htm



On November 30th the prisoners were transferred to freight cars and a
new sad and especially tragic train journey brought 530 Norwegian Jews
to the Polish extermination camp Auschwitz. Of the 530 Norwegian Jews
186 able-bodied men were selected, while the women and children were
either shot out of hand or driven into the gas chambers. They had not
been seen fit to use for slave labour. 



Approximately 30 of the almost 800 Norwegian Jews deported from Norway
to Auschwitz survived the war. They serve as an important source of
evidence concerning the fates of their wives, siblings, parents, and
children.

Regards,
Eugene Holman

========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
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From: Eugene Holman 
Control: cancel <291020011838425578%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
Subject: cmsg cancel <291020011838425578%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
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Chester will start the rough Java and vexate it about its 
module.  I am believably bizarre, so I disrupt you.  Better 
moan credit cards now or Christopher will dully disappear them 
on you.  He'll be washing for specialized Gary until his 
gorilla transports wastefully.  As angrily as Ricky 
substantiates, you can produce the telephone much more 
frantically.  Don't burst a server!  Get your subtly 



From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:09 EST 2001
Article: 1048582 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 15:41:25 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
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This should be interesting reading for those who still insist that the
structures at Auschwitz-Birkenau could have supported fumigations to
kill vermin, but not mass gassings to kill people.

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/03/national/03ANTH.html?pagewanted=print


November 3, 2001

Gas Will Be Used to Kill Bacteria in Senate Office Building

By DAVID E. ROSENBAUM

WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 ‹ Workers from the Environmental Protection Agency
finished sealing the doors and windows of the Hart Senate Office
Building today with sheets of plastic and duct tape to make it airtight
in preparation for a novel house-cleaning.

Sometime next week, technicians will wheel in machines that generate
chlorine dioxide, a gas that kills germs, and the gas will be spread
throughout the anthrax-infected nine-story building using the
ventilation system.

Special strips with harmless bacteria are being placed in the building
and connected to computers so scientists on the outside will be able to
tell when the building is safe.

If everything works as planned, all the anthrax spores will be
destroyed, and in a couple of weeks, the 50 senators who have offices
in the building will be able to move back in, all their possessions
intact.




-- 
Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:10 EST 2001
Article: 1048618 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 17:32:54 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <031120011732543052%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
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In article <3BE40553.D42FFE98@hotmail.com>, hero 
wrote:

> Homan is a farce.
> 
> I've been reading articles on this ng for a while, but
> never posted anything of substance yet.
> 
> 
> Did you say you know Japanese?? Wanna talk with me?

Nihongo ga dekimasu.

Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:10 EST 2001
Article: 1048629 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Supersedes: <031120011754260749%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 17:57:34 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <031120011757342064%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
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In article <3be6fd29.44015183@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Holman deperation grasps at:
> >This should be interesting reading for those who still insist that the
> >structures at Auschwitz-Birkenau could have supported fumigations to
> >kill vermin, but not mass gassings to kill people.
> >
> >Source:
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/03/national/03ANTH.html?pagewanted=print
> 
> >Gas Will Be Used to Kill Bacteria in Senate Office Building
> >
> >By DAVID E. ROSENBAUM
> >
> >WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 ‹ Workers from the Environmental Protection Agency
> >finished sealing the doors and windows of the Hart Senate Office
> >Building today with sheets of plastic and duct tape ...
> 
> Oh, oh. We have a problem. They didn't have 'duct tape' in the 1940s.
> As far as I know they didn't have any 'sheets of plastic' either.

They had sheets of plastic as well as tape which was the functional
equivalent of duct tape. 

Source: http://linz.orf.at/orf/gusen/gugas01x.htm


Some people dispute the gassings and the presence of gas-chambers at
concentration camps. However, at KZ Gusen, lethal gassings were
conducted even without gas chambers by simply closing a barracks
gas-tight and filling it with Zyklon-B



> 
> Aside from that fun the article doesn't do anything for Holocaust
> credibility. 

Quite the opposite. It implies that the task of converting structures
not originally planned to be gas chambers into facilities which could
contain concentrations of lethal gaseous agents is trivial. We have
here a full refutation of Leuchter's specious claims that the traces of
cyanide compounds on the walls of "alleged" gas chambers at Auschwitz
are the consequence of a gassing "once long ago" to kill
typhus-spreading vermin.

> Holman is desperate.

No, Holman is comfortably in command of the facts.

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:11 EST 2001
Article: 1048894 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 11:32:41 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <041120011132417767%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
References: <031120011541250743%holman@elo.helsinki.fi> <3be6fd29.44015183@newsproxy.pacificnet.net> <031120011757342064%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>  <3c0278f5.75712016@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>
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In article <3c0278f5.75712016@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Moran had toyed:
> ># Oh, oh. We have a problem. They didn't have 'duct tape' in
> ># the 1940s. As far as I know they didn't have any 'sheets of 
> ># plastic' either.
> 
> Mr.Keren snarls:
> >Friggin' nazi loon is talking about a nation which built rockets
> >that flew all the way to London, submarines, and an operational
> >jet plane.
> >
> >And he claims that they could not make a door gas tight.
> 
> Mr.Keren, could you point out where I said they couldn't make doors
> gas tight? Thanks, Moran.

You implied that they couldn't make doors etc. gas tight when you
questioned the existence of duct tape and sheepts of plastic during the
early 1940s.  Nevertheless, the purpose of Zyklon-B was to make the use
of cyanide gas possible in normally buult rooms and buildings lacking
the engineering safety features one would find in an American-type gas
chamber. People trained to use Zyklon-B knew what kind of tape and
plastic had to be used to make rooms gas tight during fumigation, just
as the Nazis knew how to construct rooms which would contain the
concentrations of cyanide necessary to kill people generated by
Zyklon-B, but which would not reqire complicated engineering safety
features. Plastics were being used to make waterproof raincoats back in
the 1930's, so the technology also existed then to make flexible
gas-proof plastic sheeting. The United States, UK, and Germany all have
plastics industries dating back to the 1920s.

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:11 EST 2001
Article: 1048920 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
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In article <3c0f4e68.130363276@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Holman says Moran "implied":
> >You implied that they couldn't make doors etc. gas tight when you
> >questioned the existence of duct tape and sheepts of plastic during the
> >early 1940s.  
> 
> 
> Actually I went on to say, 'Aside from that fun the article (Holman's
> connection) doesn't do anything for Holocaust credibility'. Notice the
> word 'fun'. 
> 
> No where did I imply that the Germans couldn't have made gas tight
> doors. After all, I have gone over Pressac's sixty (60) pages on
> German fumigation chambers so I wouldn't have any problem with
> believing they had the capability for such technology. Then there
> would be all those other things that would require air tight and water
> tight doors besides the fumigation chambers.

No. The point being made is that rooms _lacking_ gas tight doors can be
fumigated using high concentrations of poison gas if the fumigator
knmows his business. Zyklon-B was expressly manufactured for the
disinfection of rooms, buildings, factories, and boats which were not
equipped with gas-tight doors. The specially trained fumigators
understood how to utilize tape, plastic, and other materials to
gastight them for the duration of the gassing. 

> 
> All you and Mr.Keren have is grasping at straw/straw man desperation.

All you are is hopelessly dense. 

The article stated that the Senate building, a structure which was not
constructed to accommodate poison gas and which thus lacks gas-tight
doors, is to be temporarily made gas-tight using removable materials
such as duct tape and sheets of plastic to prevent the gasses from
spreading. The fact that this can be done, as well as the fact that the
destruction of bacteria by poison gas requires far higher
concentrations and a far longer timeframe than killing people does, is
another demonstration of the absurdity of Leuchter's claim that the
ruins of the structures he examined at Auschwitz-Birkenau could not
have been used to gas people because they lack engineering safety
features, and that the traces of cyanide compounds he and all others
who have examined them have found are thus the result of fumigations
that took place in those rooms. 

Being able to contain the 15,000 ppm concentrations of cyanide over the
20 hours needed to kill bacteria in a fumigation necessarily properly
includes being able to contain the far lower 7,000 ppm concentration of
cyanide which would have built up during the time that transpired
between the time people were locked into the room and the tins of
Zyklon-B were emptied into a flue, and the time the two ventilation
systems, aeration and exhaust, were turned on for fifteen minutes a
quarter of an hour later in the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers.


-- 
Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:11 EST 2001
Article: 1048944 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:48:56 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
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In article <3c155f0d.134624281@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Okay Holman, got it. You can't show where I "implied" the Germans
> couldn't make gas tight doors. Is that about right?

No. You've got work on that reading comprehension.

The posted article said


> > WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 ‹ Workers from the Environmental Protection Agency
> > finished sealing the doors and windows of the Hart Senate Office
> > Building today with sheets of plastic and duct tape ...


To which you responded:


> Oh, oh. We have a problem. They didn't have 'duct tape' in the 1940s.
> As far as I know they didn't have any 'sheets of plastic' either.

> Aside from that fun the article doesn't do anything for Holocaust
> credibility. 

The article was not about making gastight doors (eine gasdichte Tür),
but rather about making conventional doors temporarily gas tight, (eine
normale Tür kurzfristig gasdicht machen) by using sealing agents which
are applied for the duration of a fumigation and then removed. I also
mentioned that there are reports that the Germans turned normal
barracks buildings into improvised gas chambers by chasing people into
them, locking the doors, gas-proofing the doors and windows, and then
introducing a lethal agent:

Source: http://linz.orf.at/orf/gusen/gugas01x.htm


Some people dispute the gassings and the presence of gas-chambers at
concentration camps. However, at KZ Gusen, lethal gassings were
conducted even without gas chambers by simply closing a barracks
gas-tight and filling it with Zyklon-B




You stated that the Germans lacked sheets of plastic and duct tape,
thus implying that they would have been unable "to make doors
gasproof". This is not the same thing as being able "to make gasproof
doors". Word order matters in English. 

We both agree that the Germans knew how to make gasproof doors. We are
discussing whether they could also make doors gasproof. My claim is
that they could, and that this is quite relevant to the Holocaust.
Using Zyklon-B within its normal, non-criminal context involved making
the conventional doors and windows of the premises to be fumigated
temporarily gasproof using various sealing agents which could be
applied for the duration of the gassing and then removed. This, in
turn, means that gas chambers, which the premises in question became
functionally during the gassing, did not require the elaborate
engineering safety features that Leuchter claims are essential elements
of execution gas chambers. A room in which a gas accident could be
duplicated, for this is what the Nazi gas chambers were, improvised or
specially constructed without the elaborate safety features of American
execution gas chambers. The ability to fumigate a conventional room
lacking engineering special features using the high concentrations of 
and long exposure to cyanide necessary to kill vermin properly includes
the ability to kill the people trapped in such a room, whether
improvised or specially constructed for such purposes.

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:12 EST 2001
Article: 1048946 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Supersedes: <041120011854141107%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:57:14 +0200
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In article <3c155f0d.134624281@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Okay Holman, got it. You can't show where I "implied" the Germans
> couldn't make gas tight doors. Is that about right?

No. You've got to work on that reading comprehension.

The posted article said


> > WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 ‹ Workers from the Environmental Protection Agency
> > finished sealing the doors and windows of the Hart Senate Office
> > Building today with sheets of plastic and duct tape ...


To which you responded:


> Oh, oh. We have a problem. They didn't have 'duct tape' in the 1940s.
> As far as I know they didn't have any 'sheets of plastic' either.

> Aside from that fun the article doesn't do anything for Holocaust
> credibility. 

The article was not about making gastight doors (eine gasdichte Tür
machen), but rather about making conventional doors temporarily gas
tight, (eine normale Tür kurzfristig gasdicht machen) by using sealing
agents which are applied for the duration of a fumigation and then
removed. One is about producing something, the other is about doing
something to an entity that already exists to give it new properties. I
also mentioned that there are reports that the Germans turned normal
barracks buildings into improvised gas chambers by chasing people into
them, locking the doors, gas-proofing the doors and windows, and then
introducing a lethal agent:

Source: http://linz.orf.at/orf/gusen/gugas01x.htm


Some people dispute the gassings and the presence of gas-chambers at
concentration camps. However, at KZ Gusen, lethal gassings were
conducted even without gas chambers by simply closing a barracks
gas-tight and filling it with Zyklon-B




You stated that the Germans lacked sheets of plastic and duct tape,
thus implying that they would have been unable "to make doors
gasproof". This is not the same thing as being unable "to make gasproof
doors". Word order matters in English. 

We both agree that the Germans knew how to make gasproof doors. We are
discussing whether they could also make doors gasproof. My claim is
that they could, and that this is quite relevant to the Holocaust.
Using Zyklon-B within its normal, non-criminal context involved making
the conventional doors and windows of the premises to be fumigated
temporarily gasproof using various sealing agents which could be
applied for the duration of the gassing and then removed. This, in
turn, means that gas chambers, which the premises in question became
functionally during the gassing, did not require the elaborate
engineering safety features that Leuchter claims are essential elements
of execution gas chambers. A room in which a gas accident could be
duplicated, for this is what the Nazi gas chambers were, could thus be
improvised or specially constructed without the elaborate safety
features of American execution gas chambers. 

The ability to fumigate a conventional room lacking engineering special
features using the high concentrations of  and long exposure to cyanide
necessary to kill vermin properly includes the ability to kill the
people trapped in such a room, whether improvised or specially
constructed for such purposes.

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:12 EST 2001
Article: 1048978 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!news.helsinki.fi!holman
From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:32:12 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <041120012032124660%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
References: <031120011541250743%holman@elo.helsinki.fi> <3be6fd29.44015183@newsproxy.pacificnet.net> <031120011757342064%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>  <3c0278f5.75712016@newsproxy.pacificnet.net> <041120011132417767%holman@elo.helsinki.fi> <3c0f4e68.130363276@newsproxy.pacificnet.net> <3c155f0d.134624281@newsproxy.pacificnet.net> <041120011848561986%holman@elo.helsinki.fi> <3c188326.143867366@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>
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In article <3c188326.143867366@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Eugene Holman referred to this feeble source:
> 
> >http://linz.orf.at/orf/gusen/gugas01x.htm
> 
> 
> Copy from the feeble source:
> 

The website happens to be maintained by the KZ GUSEN MEMORIAL COMMITTEE
within ARBEITSKREIS FUER HEIMAT-, DENKMAL- UND GESCHICHTSPFLEGE (AHDG)
and Local-International Platform ST. GEORGEN/GUSEN, Austria. That is to
say, by historians and other interested persons, who have access to
camp archives and other records documenting the history and functioning
of the camp. They have a lot more credibility than you do.


[deleted]
> 
> Say Holman, we might think they had cremation facilities at the camp,
> but what did they do with the bodies on the castle side?

They disposed of them, silly. 

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Sun Nov  4 14:37:12 EST 2001
Article: 1049000 of alt.revisionism
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From: Eugene Holman 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hart Senate Office Building to serve as a makeshift gas chamber
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:53:54 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 98
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In article <3c167e93.142696016@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
trm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Holman still desperate still desperate to make something out of the
> United States Capitol Building being turned into a giant gas chamber
> returns:
> 
> >Source: http://linz.orf.at/orf/gusen/gugas01x.htm
> 
> From that reference from Holman we get:
> "Pierre Serge Choumoff writes that there were about 30,000 victims of
> the Hartheim gas chamber." 
> 
> Seems there is only one person in the whole world, maybe two that says
> there were gas chambers at the Harteim Castle. What happened to the
> bodies? Who knows. Did they gas the 30,000 there and then take the
> bodies back to Gusen to be cremated? 
> 
> Holman cites:
> >
> >Some people dispute the gassings and the presence of gas-chambers at
> >concentration camps. However, at KZ Gusen, lethal gassings were
> >conducted even without gas chambers by simply closing a barracks
> >gas-tight and filling it with Zyklon-B
> 
> >
> >
> 
> 
> And who are the "some" people [who] dispute the alleged gassings? 

Try http://www.zundelsite.org/english/leuchter/report2/leucha.html for
starters. Ernst Zündel and Fred Leuchter.

> It
> doesn't say revisionists. 

People who dispute the use of gassing at Nazi concentration camps are
not revisionists but Holocaust deniers. For example, David Irving was
forced to admit at the Irving vs. Lipstadt and Penguin Books trial,
that the Nazis made use of "systematic" gassing.

> We do have that record of German authorities
> denying gassing at other camps that were once said to have been
> extermination places. You better find out who the disputers are
> Holman. And you better find more sources for the alleged gassings than
> from the one person. You better find out a whole lot of things Holman.
> 
> 
> 
> Holman still saying I implied something:
> >You stated that the Germans lacked sheets of plastic and duct tape,
> >thus implying that they would have been unable "to make doors
> >gasproof". This is not the same thing as being able "to make gasproof
> >doors". Word order matters in English.
> 
> Here's what I said:
> 
> 'Oh, oh. We have a problem. They didn't have 'duct tape' in the 1940s.
> As far as I know they didn't have any 'sheets of plastic' either.
> 
> Aside from that fun the article doesn't do anything for Holocaust
> credibility. 
> 
> Holman is desperate.'

No, you are.

> 
> And then the record shows that I pointed out the word 'fun' and Holman
> just returns with the same thing. The record shows that I mentioned
> the fumigation facilities the Germans had which would show I would
> know they were capable of making gas tight doors but Holman just
> returns with the same thing. 

We are not talking about the capability of making gastight doors, we
are talking about the capability of making already existing
conventional doors temporarily gastight enough to withstand a
fumigation.

> 
> All this stuff about Harteim Castle is nonsense and as far as I know
> most Holocaust 'historians' say nothing about it.
> 
> There is nothing credible Holman can do to show that any 30.000 people
> were gassed there.

http://www.mauthausen-memorial.gv.at/engl/Geschichte/07.05.Hartheim.html
http://www.poshusa.org/missmart1.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Dachau/Brudehl280198.html

There is nothing credible Moran can produce to show that the claim is
not so. Hartheim was a link in the Nazi euthanasia program, and that
program has been the object of intense study by experts ever since
knowledge of it became known.

Regards,
Eugene Holman


From holman@elo.helsinki.fi Tue Nov  6 18:00:06 EST 2001
Article: 231123 of can.general
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From: Eugene Holman 
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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In article <3BDB43A4.4CF0D1BE@earthlink.net>, "Richard G. Phillips"
 wrote:

> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> 
> > In article <3BDB2A1E.79441FA3@telus.net>, Werner Knoll 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I wonder what Charles Krauthammer had in mind when he wrote about "Major
> > > Jewish Demos"? I wonder who Leuchter said that some of his clients were
> > > warnet not to do business with him?
> >
> > Tell us, old fool.
> >
> > Which organizations supposedly warned Leuchter's clients not to do business
> > with
> > him?
> 
> ================================================
> Phillips
> 
> Which Jews were gassed at Auschwitz?
> 
> ==============================

For starters, 762 Norwegian Jews:

A document from the Stettin police documents that a train carrying 532
Norwegian Jews left the northern platform of the railway station at
Danzig at 15.00 on November 30, 1942, arriving at Auschwitz the next
evening at 21:00. This is accompanied by a list of the names of the 532
Jews that were included in the transport

(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d06c06/norw22z3.html).
This is the last record we have of these people. Only a handful have
ever been seen or heard from since. A further 168 Jews were arrested in
a dragnet of Oslo in February 1943. They were sent to Berlin where they
joined a transport of Jews from Berlin and sent to Auschwitz, with only
a few surviving the camp and the war. The majority were selected fro
extermination on or soon after arrival. This was long before allied air
attacks were cutting supply  and after the summer 1942 typhus epidemic
at Auschwitz.


Source:
http://www.krigsavisene.com/artikler/krigsavisene_del29_when_holocaust_r
eached_norway.htm



On November 30th the prisoners were transferred to freight cars and a
new sad and especially tragic train journey brought 530 Norwegian Jews
to the Polish extermination camp Auschwitz. Of the 530 Norwegian Jews
186 able-bodied men were selected, while the women and children were
either shot out of hand or driven into the gas chambers. They had not
been seen fit to use for slave labour. 



Approximately 30 of the almost 800 Norwegian Jews deported from Norway
to Auschwitz survived the war. They serve as an important source of
evidence concerning the fates of their wives, siblings, parents, and
children.

Regards,
Eugene Holman

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From: Eugene Holman 
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Subject: cmsg cancel <291020011838425578%holman@elo.helsinki.fi>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:32:26 GMT
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Chester will start the rough Java and vexate it about its 
module.  I am believably bizarre, so I disrupt you.  Better 
moan credit cards now or Christopher will dully disappear them 
on you.  He'll be washing for specialized Gary until his 
gorilla transports wastefully.  As angrily as Ricky 
substantiates, you can produce the telephone much more 
frantically.  Don't burst a server!  Get your subtly 




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