The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/h/hardy.george.f/1996/hardy.0996


From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep  1 16:32:20 PDT 1996
Article: 84632 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: "Wer [eine] Jude ist. bestimme Ich"
Message-ID: <917cc$81413.ef@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 13:20:19 GMT
References: <4vo8c6$339@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> <4vvlbc$8ap@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> <0000210e+00006f4f@msn.com> 
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In article , peter@xilinx.com (Peter Alfke) says:
>
>In article <0000210e+00006f4f@msn.com>, tkttw@msn.com (Gerard Doherty) wrote:
>
>> Why is there still such a preoccupation with Jews in Germany?
>
>That "preoccupation" has nothing to do with capitalism. It is the 
>result of a bad conscience, a feeling of horror, about what was 
>done, by the then German government, to a particular racially 
>identified group of innocent people. 

No, it has little to do with "a bad conscience".  It has to do with
the desire of Jews to keep their victim status alive.  Keep in mind
that Israel received *every year* over DM 1,500 per Jew (not 
including Arabs) from the USA.  To keep this money flowing they
need to provide constant reminders of their victim status.  What
better place to demonstrate their 'victim status' than Germany?

Frankly, I don't think most Germans really care one way or the
other.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep  4 14:01:01 PDT 1996
Article: 84857 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Words to Deutschland Uber Alles?
Message-ID: <937cc$a6c.135@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 15:06:12 GMT
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In article <322B2223.5740@twics.com>, "Rene v. Rentzell"  says:

>Huh? The Deutschlandlied hasn't changed. Only the first verse
>(Deutschland ueber alles...) was replaced by the second one (Einigkeit
>und Recht und Freiheit...) as national anthem. 

The real problem with the first verse was the geographic extent
of "Deutschland".  Maas to Memel; Echt to Belt.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep  8 10:14:43 PDT 1996
Article: 85256 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,soc.culture.german,misc.legal
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR:  WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Message-ID: <977cc$f10.169@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 20:01:00 GMT
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It means that, since we can not win the case in court, we will
simply accuse you without allowing you a defense.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep  8 10:14:44 PDT 1996
Article: 85260 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Please help with German translation
Message-ID: <977cc$e3b4.2cb@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 19:59:04 GMT
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In article <322F0EE7.485E@msbg.med.ge.com>, GE Employee  says:
>
>Hi,
>
>You nice people who speaks the wonderful language of German, would you 
>kindly help me with the following English to German translation?
>
>English:
>No data saved to video tape recorder.
>
>German:
>??? Keine Untersuchungsdaten aufgenommen ???
>
>What is it in German? Thanks in advance for your help.

Hey, come on!  I am an American and I have no idea what "No data
saved to the video recorder." means.  You have an incomplete
thought here.

Do you mean: "No data is saved to the video tape recorder if you 
forget to turn it on."?  "No data is ever saved to the video tape
recorder." (because it is made of wood.)  "No data saved to the 
video tape recorder can be used."?  (it is only for the CIA)  
Or "This video tape recorder does not work."

If you could express yourself more clearly then there is some
hope that, at least in translation, your manual might be of some
little use.  :-)

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep  8 10:14:45 PDT 1996
Article: 85262 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,sci.econ,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: WAR & FUTURE, chapter 1.1, book by A@P
Message-ID: <977cc$e3112.c9@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 19:49:18 GMT
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In article <50n6v6$u6r@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium) says:
>I called it the
>Rules of War and its chief message was that when at war, the major
>effort should be focused on the assassination of the enemies leader.
>Such little effort, say in the assassination of Hitler would have
>changed the flow of so much energy and time expended.

An interesting point, but not popular with "leaders".  They seem to
recognize that by targeting the enemy leaders they make themselves
targets.  Bush was not unique in his claim that the purpose of the
Gulf War was *not* to kill Sadam Hussain.

Even Churchill, who felt that Hitler was evil incarnate, did not
mount an effort to kill him.  It would not have been hard, if one
did not burden the attempt with the proposition that the killer 
should escape.

There was a time when it was considered 'unsporting' to shoot at
an opposing general.  On the other hand, in Napoleonic War sea
battles it was recognized that killing the opposing captain was
better than even the most devastating broadside.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep  8 10:14:45 PDT 1996
Article: 85287 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Why are consumer goods so expensive in Germany?
Message-ID: <977cc$e34b.fa@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 19:52:11 GMT
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In article , "H. Kaltinger"  says:
>
>Also with the European Union many prices are guaranteed not to fall 
>below a particular price, so that the producers could eventually earn 
>more money...

Is price fixing (fair trade) legal in the EU?

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep  8 11:48:45 PDT 1996
Article: 98204 of soc.culture.canada
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,sci.econ,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: WAR & FUTURE, chapter 1.1, book by A@P
Message-ID: <977cc$e3112.c9@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 19:49:18 GMT
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In article <50n6v6$u6r@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium) says:
>I called it the
>Rules of War and its chief message was that when at war, the major
>effort should be focused on the assassination of the enemies leader.
>Such little effort, say in the assassination of Hitler would have
>changed the flow of so much energy and time expended.

An interesting point, but not popular with "leaders".  They seem to
recognize that by targeting the enemy leaders they make themselves
targets.  Bush was not unique in his claim that the purpose of the
Gulf War was *not* to kill Sadam Hussain.

Even Churchill, who felt that Hitler was evil incarnate, did not
mount an effort to kill him.  It would not have been hard, if one
did not burden the attempt with the proposition that the killer 
should escape.

There was a time when it was considered 'unsporting' to shoot at
an opposing general.  On the other hand, in Napoleonic War sea
battles it was recognized that killing the opposing captain was
better than even the most devastating broadside.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 10 10:37:28 PDT 1996
Article: 85576 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: US law vs German law
Message-ID: <9a7cc$93137.28e@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:49:55 GMT
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In article <511ac2$e4u@crcnis3.unl.edu>, 00155639@bigred.unl.edu (Chad Edward Weidner) says:

>I have an interesting question regarding this conviction.  Although I 
>deplore what Lauck has said, in America, one has the right to express 
>their own ideas- even if they are stupid and absurd.  But should't the 
>US gov't recognize that Lauck has the freedom of expression?  After 
>all, he IS AN AMERICAN, right?  He practiced his right in this 
>country, and was arrested for doing so.  

I am afraid that you are really way off base.  You seem to expect
foreign students in Lincoln to obey American laws.  Why do you
think that Americans overseas don't have to obey the local laws
of the countries they are in?  Being "AN AMERICAN" is not being
appointed as a junior god.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 10 10:37:30 PDT 1996
Article: 85585 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Seeking online German dictionary with pronunciation **
Message-ID: <9a7cc$91a18.299@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:26:24 GMT
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In article , jkatz@netcom.com (Joseph Katz) says:
>
>Hello,
>
>I am trying to locate a software based German dictionary that 
>contains word pronunciations.  I really only need the word, 
>its pronunciation (snip)

Unlike English, German is pronounced as it is spelled.  When a
foreign word is added to German its spelling is changed to
result in correct pronunciation in German (e.g. Amerika).

As one who has designed "speaking dictionaries" I can say that
only English really requires one.  As soon as you learn the 
(simple) rules, you can pronounce German, Spanish, French and
Japanese correctly based on the spelling.  Of course you'll sound
like a foreigner, but you will anyway.  :-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 10 10:37:31 PDT 1996
Article: 85588 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Trip to Germany
Message-ID: <9a7cc$92d26.71@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:45:38 GMT
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In article <5122gi$3u@gondor.sdsu.edu>, weikel@rohan.sdsu.edu (weikel) says:

>I'd like to go to Germany after I graduate in December.  Any
>advice?  I'd like to visit the castles on the Rhine.  What would
>be the best time of year for this?  Where are the best places to
>eat?  Are there any special events I should know about?  Would
>one week be enough or should I try to take off enough work for
>two weeks?
>

It is impossible to advise you about "the best places to eat"
without some idea of your budget.  Germany is (in general) more
expensive than the USA, although one can visit Germany quite
inexpensively -- though not by visiting "the best places to eat".

>I've never had a holiday before.  I know enough German to
>understand bits and pieces of conversation, and can read decently.
>Should I study up some more?

Absolutely yes.  Though you will not need it in the western
part of the country.  If you are interested in the "old"
Germany, and are willing to speak German as a necessity, I
recommend Thüringen.  See Eisenach (Wartburg), Mühlhausen,
Weimar, Jena, Erfurt (a Catholic city in the middle of a
Protestant Land), Arnstadt (if interested in Bach or Telemann),
and one of my favorites, Freyburg and Burgscheidungen.  Then
go south to Rudolstadt (see the Richter Villa and Heidecksburg,
the paint on the walls there is the paint put on in the 1740s,
not a "redo" after W.W.II.  Then Lauenstein, Coburg and Sesslach.

Don't miss Pommersfelden or Würzburg on the way back.

Enjoy.
GFH
This broad high plain is the heart of German culture and
was almost untouched by the 20th Century



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 10 10:37:32 PDT 1996
Article: 85589 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Words to Deutschland Uber Alles?
Message-ID: <9a7cc$a421.1aa@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:04:33 GMT
References: <043304Z29081996@anon.penet.fi> <50e38i$shb@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <50qarj$6co@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu> <50stn7$tsq@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <511a5v$7n6@umbc10.umbc.edu>
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In article <511a5v$7n6@umbc10.umbc.edu>, tmarsh1@umbc.edu (marshallsay timothy) says:
>
>National anthems are supposed to be fawningly patriotic and slightly tacky; it
>is their sole reason for being.

Yes, but it is bad form to include much of your neighbor's property
in your "realm".  Consider a US anthem which claimed from the Artic
(Ocean) to the Isthmus (of Panama).  Mexicans and Canadians might
be better off, but there would be some 'stick-in-the-muds' who would 
consider this geographic description a little expansionist.  ;-)


"Von der Maas bis an die Memel, Von der Etsch bis an den Belt" 

You can not explain away these words.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 10 10:37:34 PDT 1996
Article: 85592 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German (was: GENDER in Esperanto)
Message-ID: <9a7cc$9362a.2f5@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:54:42 GMT
References: <50uvid$laq@netnews.upenn.edu> <511bso$j1n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <511dq1$c79@netnews.upenn.edu>
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In article <511dq1$c79@netnews.upenn.edu>, weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) says:
>
>AnkerStein (ankerstein@aol.com) wrote:
>: >I myself am most happy with randomly alternating male and female 
>: >plurals; it keeps grammar and spelling intact and upsets the kinds of 
>: >people I enjoy upsetting.
>
>: I find it quite upsetting to read about groups of people who change
>: gender randomly though the text.  I wonder whether perhaps the
>: sex-change operation industry is going wild.  ;-)
>
>: Stick with one "non-sex-specific" and one plural.  German makes it easy,
>: all "non-sex-specific" nouns should be neuter.
>
>On your say-so? That would involve quite an overhaul of the language. 
>

German could stand some rework.  ;-)

So could English.  :-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 11 11:06:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64415 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9b7cc$a2023.2c8@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:32:35 GMT
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In article , qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) says:

>
>What's stupider than censorship?  Believing that Germany is a 
>free nation?
>

No, believing the USA is.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 11 11:57:53 PDT 1996
Article: 85715 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.onr.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Octoberfest Games
Message-ID: <9b7cc$ae2c.3a4@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:14:44 GMT
References: <3235BFF4.42DE@cameron.edu>
Organization: self
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In article <3235BFF4.42DE@cameron.edu>, KCCU  says:
>
>I am in charge of coming up with some "Family" games for our Octoberfest 
>in our community. 
>
>Can you help me come up with a bunch of fun games.  Some of the ones we 
>have done in the past include:
>
>1)how fast can you eat a german roll, or sausage.
>2)a yodel contest
>3)a hummel look a like contest.

I believe that the most traditional of all Oktoberfest games is
drinking a liter of beer.  It is a family game, as some women are
stiff competitors.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 11 11:57:54 PDT 1996
Article: 85719 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Words to Deutschland Uber Alles?
Message-ID: <9b7cc$ad6.38f@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:13:06 GMT
References: <043304Z29081996@anon.penet.fi> <50e38i$shb@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <50qarj$6co@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu> <50stn7$tsq@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <511a <51463o$mhc@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <51463o$mhc@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, lange@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca (U Lange) says:
>
>After having written the following, I realized that I agree with your
>text as an answer to the claim that "National anthems are supposed to be
>fawningly patriotic...". I was a bit confused, because one part of the
>discussion here is not only the use of the text as a national anthem, but
>the original meaning of the text.
>
>Nonetheless, I post the following to point out these two different levels
>of the discussion, because other readers are probably easily confused by
>that, too. 

Just because you are "easily confused", do not include others, without 
evidence, in that catagory.  ;-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 11 11:57:55 PDT 1996
Article: 85729 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: sci.lang,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!scanner.worldgate.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.nevada.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German (was: GENDER in Esperanto)
Message-ID: <9b7cc$a916.1c1@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:09:22 GMT
References: <4vgd6s$7hr@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz> <4vkgmp$q39@panix2.panix.com> <4vs9i6$5ii@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <4vvviv$s5f@mips.pfalz.de> <50hfd3$q9v@lyra <5147r9$je2@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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In article <5147r9$je2@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, zenoink@ix.netcom.com(Zenoink) says:

>And do you really live in such a rural area you still get milk
>delivered?

Yes, the cows come to the barn and "deliver" it.  The cows, btw,
are female.  :-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 11 11:57:56 PDT 1996
Article: 85739 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: sci.lang,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German (was: GENDER in Esperanto)
Message-ID: <9b7cc$a1f26.21c@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:31:38 GMT
References: <4vgd6s$7hr@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz> <4vkgmp$q39@panix2.panix.com> <4vs9i6$5ii@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <4vvviv$s5f@mips.pfalz.de> <50hfd3$q9v@lyra 
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In article , gonser@eawag.ch (-Tom-) says:
>Just say you want to write in
>Swiss German, and don't bother with it. :-)
>
And that excuse will also serve to explain your horrible 
pronunciation.  :-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 11 19:22:53 PDT 1996
Article: 64507 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9b7cc$a1d7.84@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:29:07 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  <50agrb$17s@sjx 
Organization: self
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In article , qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) says:
>
>In <5163rt$1l1u@sol.caps.maine.edu> scotterb@maine.maine.edu (Scott Erb) writes:
>
>! If you wish to argue the merits of greater free speech (Germany is 
>! one of the most liberal states in the world in this regard, by the 
>! way), you can do so. 
>
>Are you that deaf?  Germany is not a free nation.
>

Every bit as free as the USA.  In Germany I can see a police car
come up from behind me without that sudden shock of fear.

There is no BATF breaking into people's homes.

You can buy a round trip airline ticket with cash without having
the DEA "arrest" your cash.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 07:33:49 PDT 1996
Article: 64557 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!scanner.worldgate.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9b7cc$163620.d6@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:54:32 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  
Organization: self
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In article , qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) says:
>
>In <9b7cc$a2023.2c8@news.comet.net> georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:
>
>! >What's stupider than censorship?  Believing that Germany is a 
>! >free nation?
>! 
>! No, believing the USA is.
>
>We're not that stupid.
>

Clearly you have not been to Lincoln, Nebraska.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 07:33:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64651 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9c7cc$93b2e.2ec@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:59:46 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  
Organization: self
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In article , "H. Kaltinger"  says:
>
>On 11 Sep 1996, Silke-Maria Weineck wrote:
>> Dave Harman OBC (qut@netcom.com) wrote:
>> : In <511iqg$vhq@sol.caps.maine.edu> Scott Erb writes:
>>
>> : What's stupider than censorship?  Believing that Germany is a free 
>> : nation?
>> 
>> Believing that the US has freedom of speech? Hell, you don't even 
>> have freedom of fellatio!

>HA! Sounds like you don't know the U.S. very well, do you??? No one 
>person is 100% free- there have to be rules to keep order in society!!!!
>

Overlooking Silke's sexual hang-ups, please answer why the US needs
"rules to keep order in society" that limit what two consenting
adults do in their bedroom.

Rules are needed only when a person's freedom infringes another's
freedom, not counting a fetus as a "person".

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 10:03:10 PDT 1996
Article: 100515 of alt.censorship
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9c7cc$a18.3d0@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:01:08 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  
Organization: self
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In article , qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) says:
>
>
>Nebraskans aren't any stupider than other Americans or Germans in 
>believing we live in a free nation.
>

I suggest that you read the opening post of this thread.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 11:33:27 PDT 1996
Article: 85819 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!scanner.worldgate.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Words to Deutschland Uber Alles?
Message-ID: <9b7cc$163521.320@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:53:33 GMT
References: <043304Z29081996@anon.penet.fi> <50e38i$shb@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <50qarj$6co@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu> <50stn7$tsq@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <511a <5172hp$fu$2@montespan.pasteur.fr>
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In article <5172hp$fu$2@montespan.pasteur.fr>, Joerg Stuelke  says:

>Okay, but this geographical description is not part of the National 
>Anthem. There is nothing referring to geography in the Anthem at all.
>The two first parts ceased to be part of the Anthem after the war.
>I hope, this clarifies the point.

We all know that.  The question was the "earlier" version.  And
why no longer now.  Actually the original question was 'what
were the original words?'.

I hope, this clarifies the point.  ;-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 11:33:31 PDT 1996
Article: 85824 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German
Message-ID: <9b7cc$163b35.2ae@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:59:53 GMT
References: <4vgd6s$7hr@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz> <50tqc1$j4u@Iolo.quincy.edu> <6GY6msX_36B@alnilam.toppoint.de> <6GfbeXoAjHB@hit-l.huth.hit.handshake.de>
Organization: self
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In article <6GfbeXoAjHB@hit-l.huth.hit.handshake.de>, l.huth@hit.handshake.de (Lisa C. Huth) says:
  

>Those who say "StudentIn" is garbage and characterize everybody who 
>uses it as a fool normally have missed the last 30 years of social 
> development.

You have no idea how grateful I am that I have missed all of your
wonderful "social development".

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 11:33:32 PDT 1996
Article: 85869 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9c7cc$a18.3d0@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:01:08 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  
Organization: self
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In article , qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) says:
>
>
>Nebraskans aren't any stupider than other Americans or Germans in 
>believing we live in a free nation.
>

I suggest that you read the opening post of this thread.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 11:33:33 PDT 1996
Article: 85870 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Words to Deutschland Uber Alles?
Message-ID: <9c7cc$a33a.4f@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:03:58 GMT
References: <043304Z29081996@anon.penet.fi> <50e38i$shb@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <50qarj$6co@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu> <50stn7$tsq@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <511a <517dor$jp8@newsgate.dircon.co.uk>
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In article <517dor$jp8@newsgate.dircon.co.uk>, rikrob@dircon.co.uk (Robert Smith) says:

>Consider the British one, the second verse, now no longer used talked
>about 'crushing rebellious Scots', and we wonder why they want their
>own parliament!!!

Good point, the British also 'changed' their anthem because of
political realities.

But, the Scots do need 'crushing'.  ;-)

GFH 



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 11:33:34 PDT 1996
Article: 85871 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,sci.lang
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German (was: GENDER in Esperanto)
Message-ID: <9c7cc$a924.114@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:09:36 GMT
References: <4vgd6s$7hr@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz> <4vkgmp$q39@panix2.panix.com> <4vs9i6$5ii@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <4vvviv$s5f@mips.pfalz.de> <50hfd3$q9v@lyra 
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In article , sebastiano hartviga  says:
>

>according to the new german orthography "tschüß" ("tschüß") 
>can be written "tschüss" ("tschüss"). but indeed many germans 
>write "tschüs" ("tschüs") with one "s".both forms are correct 
>as some people pronounce the "ü" ("ü") long but others short.

For html, one can also use ü = ü and $#223 = ß.  The real 
advantage of the &# technique is that it provides easy access 
to all 256 html characters.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 12:39:20 PDT 1996
Article: 64653 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9c7cc$a18.3d0@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:01:08 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  
Organization: self
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In article , qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) says:
>
>
>Nebraskans aren't any stupider than other Americans or Germans in 
>believing we live in a free nation.
>

I suggest that you read the opening post of this thread.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 12 12:39:21 PDT 1996
Article: 64723 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9c7cc$e72c.3c2@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:07:44 GMT
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  
Organization: self
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In article <51960k$t6o@netnews.upenn.edu>, weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) says:
>
>George F. Hardy (georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us) wrote:

>: >> Believing that the US has freedom of speech? Hell, you don't even 
>: >> have freedom of fellatio!

>: Overlooking Silke's sexual hang-ups, please answer why the US needs
>: "rules to keep order in society" that limit what two consenting
>: adults do in their bedroom.
>
>How American to think of fellatio as a sexual hang-up! Condolences.
>
>Silke

No, only complaining on the net about fellatio is a hang-up .

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Fri Sep 13 09:38:15 PDT 1996
Article: 65050 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9d7cc$9c36.2b3@news.comet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:12:54 GMT
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In article <51a4al$m3d@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rcgraves@ix.netcom.com (Rich Graves) says:
>
>George? You entirely missed Silke's point. Stop it with the fellatio
>already -- it seems to be interfering with your ability to construct a
>logical argument, or for that matter, to read. Besides, I believe it's
>illegal in Virginia and several other states, but not in Germany. 


All meaningful discussion died on this thread well before Silke's
effort to inject a little life into the discussion.  Having attended
UofPa, I know just how dull Philadelphia is and how hard one must
work to make in interesting.  It seems that Silke is doing her part 
to perk up that rather uninteresting city.  New York, it is not!

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 14 09:33:51 PDT 1996
Article: 86060 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: U.S. Law vs. German law (cont'd)
Message-ID: <9e7cc$961b.8d@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:06:27 GMT
References: <519bbd$ir5@crcnis3.unl.edu>
Organization: self
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.4
Lines: 7

About the only meaningfulpoint in this thread has been that 
US law applies in the USA, German law applies in Germany.

Americans in Germany must obey German law, regardles of whether
that law is different from US law.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 15 09:26:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65785 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9f7cc$a322b.375@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:50:43 GMT
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In article <51fel8$t4n@netnews.upenn.edu>, weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) says:

>
>: Does Germany allow it's citizens to purchase firearms? 
>
>Yes, so we can snip the nonsense below.

Not only does the German government allow Germans to have
a firearm possession Gewehrbesitz permit, foreign visitors, 
tourists, can get one too.  Try that in the USA. 

In fact, you can easily buy a firearm in Germany, but your
problems only have started when you land in the USA and
are confronted by the jack-booted thugs of the BATF.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 15 10:40:54 PDT 1996
Article: 86116 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: German Lebkuchen in the USA
Message-ID: <9f7cc$a192f.19d@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:25:47 GMT
References: <323B6B10.97C@german-usa.com>
Organization: self
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In article <323B6B10.97C@german-usa.com>, Katharina Davitt  says:
>
>Here are two URL's for Lebkuchen in the USA.
>

>And with the second one you can order online.
>http://www.german-usa.com/home/F&F_International/
>You can order until December or January.

This address is wrong.  You will get a No URL message.
Try http://www.webcom.com/german/home/F&F_International/welcome.ht

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 15 10:40:55 PDT 1996
Article: 86120 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: US law vs German law
Message-ID: <9f7cc$a2b29.166@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:43:41 GMT
References:  <516cgh$6pk@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> <517h62$o1b@news.vanderbilt.edu> 
Organization: self
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In article , "
H. Kaltinger"  says:

>Freedom of speech should be allowed, but not threats. People must learn 
>to respect one another. 

Absolutely wrong.  There is no requirement that you respect the
speaker.  The requirement is that you tolerate him.  If you are
required to respect the speaker, then you need some way, censor-
ship, to see to it that the speech is worthy of respect.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 18 11:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 86305 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: any germans out on uva grounds?
Message-ID: <9117cc$e1c7.113@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:28:07 GMT
References: 
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.4
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In article , mrw3e@avery.med.Virginia.EDU (Martin R. Weihrauch) says:
>
>hi there,
>
>i am a student from germany and i would like to meet other german 
>people here in charlottesville or close area.
>
>e-mail me at mrw3e@virginia.edu


Not a lot.  As another C'ville resident, I know.

Check out http://www.comet.net/personal/georgeh/

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 18 11:10:52 PDT 1996
Article: 86314 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.punk.europe,de.org.ccc,de.soc.kultur,de.soc.politik,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Hooligans
Message-ID: <9117cc$e1f12.c8@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:31:18 GMT
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Remember: Hooligan is a good Irish name.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 18 11:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 20654 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Influence on bomb decision?
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 19:54:57 -0400
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In article <50v1v3$oba@nntp5.u.washington.edu>, clw@teleport.com (C. L.
Waltemath) says:
>
>In article <50rusm$ati@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, at278@freenet.carleton.ca
>(Anne-Marie Kokesch) wrote:
>
>> 
>> Heard a botanist author on radio yesterday claiming that Japan 
>> absolutely controlled the world's supply of much-valued and 
>> needed rubber at the end of WW2. 
>
>Not true.  Any areas still held by the IJA after mid 1944 were simply
>bypassed (left to wither on the vine) units.  

As I remember, and I am ready to be corrected on this, the USA 
developed synthetic rubber (not the really excellent quality we 
have today) in time for use during W.W.II.  Quinine was another
product which was synthetically produced in time for W.W.II use.

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 18 11:53:50 PDT 1996
Article: 20692 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Crete/ South Pacific
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 09:07:07 -0400
Organization: self
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In article <510iop$cne@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, samos@inforamp.net says:
>
>
>What models did Americans planners have as they set out on the Pacific
>Island campaign?  I cant' think of anything else in military history
>that involved the distances and logistical complexity of the US island
>hopping drive across the S. Pacific. Did they study the German Crete
>campaign as the way NOT to do it?


The tactical situation in the South Pacific and Crete were totally 
different.  The US could have obtained *no* useful guidance from the
Crete invasion.  In the Crete situation, the Germans did not control
the seas.  In fact, the Germans were unable to follow up their air
drop with seaborn troops.  In the South Pacific the US *always*
had total sea and air control.  So why would the US have ever 
even considered paratroops?

Paratroops were proven to be very useful *if*) one could reasonably 
expect that relieving troops would arrive within 48 hours.  The 
Germans proved that in the western Netherlands, the British proved 
the converse in the eastern Netherlands a few years later.  One should
view Crete as an unusual (not to be tried again) situation.  German
loses were very high, so high that Hitler never allowed another
paratroop attack, even though a good argument could be made for
Malta.

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 18 11:53:51 PDT 1996
Article: 20729 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Massacre of Japanese by crocodiles
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:23:35 -0400
Organization: self
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Approved: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
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In article <510vhd$gut@nina.pagesz.net>, larmoe@hevanet.com says:
>
>Can anyone point me to a good reference for an account of a large 
>massacre of Japanese soldiers by crocodiles, I believe late in the 
>war on a Burmese island? I've heard of this event but have been 
>unable to dig up any facts on it.  Many thanks.


Is it possible you are referring to the 'death march' the the
Australians led the Japanese Army of Burma on across the Indo-
China peninsula?  Of course, this event occurred after the
end of the war.  As I remember, the survival rate of the 
Japanese was about 1%.  This was the only "large massacre"
of Japanese soldiers (othr than battle) that I know about.

Feelings were high on the Burma front.  Gen. Slim disobeyed
orders and accepted Japanese swords during the surrender.

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 18 11:53:51 PDT 1996
Article: 20816 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Operation Market Garden
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:33:24 -0400
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In article <51406o$h11@nntp5.u.washington.edu>,
boe.andersson@sala.mail.telia.com (Edvin Andersson) says:
>
>Does anybody know about any good books about Operation Market Garden??? 
>

The classic is "A Bridge Too Far".  I highly recommend it.

If the British had not held up for two weeks of "r & r" in Antwerp,
they would have won.  Only Monty could think that "elevenses" was
appropriate when the enemy was on the run.

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 19 08:08:16 PDT 1996
Article: 71872 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.community.military,can.general,can.politics,soc.history.war.misc,soc.culture.canada
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Valour and Horror (was: Re: Somalia Enquiry)
Message-ID: <9127cc$92bb.302@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:43:11 GMT
References: <5022qj$dt0@ktk2.smartt.com>  <50cigu$3dl@ktk2.smartt.com> <50j8c4$7pd@freenet-news.carleton.ca <323de57c.10025789@198.59.115.25>
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In article <323de57c.10025789@198.59.115.25>, schelby@swcp.com (E.F.Schelby) says:

>
>Result: a carefully planned firestorm (not a fluke) that had
>hurricane force, produced temperatures of 800 degrees Centigrade,
>and sucked up all air/oxygen. Street frontages of about 130 miles
>were ablaze during the inferno.
>
>45,000 non-combatants died. At least 5000 of them were children.
>Causes of death: suffocation; being roasted alive; being buried
>alive; dying from severe burns and lack of medical help in the midst
>of chaos. A new word entered the language: "Schrumpfleiche" for
>black bodies shrunken to half their size by incineration. 900,000
>people became homeless.

There is no question that the results noted above were the intended
results.  The US and UK bomber commands knew quite well what they
were trying to do.  It is also true that many US (but not UK) 
aviators were lied to so as to salve their consciences.

The only meaningful question is 'was it proper to kill as many
German civilians as possible?'.  

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 19 08:17:50 PDT 1996
Article: 86415 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: A german flag is wanted!
Message-ID: <9117cc$e1a25.24a@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:26:37 GMT
References: <323b416a.4391607@news.oar.net> <323D746C.2F44@xilinx.com> 
Organization: self
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.4
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>On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Peter Alfke wrote:
>
>> "I do not know what one looks like or if there is more than one". 
>> 
>> Statements like this give American education a bad name.
>> If you are a student, it should not take you more than 10 minutes to 
>> find the colors of the German flag in a book your library.
>> Remember: That's what libraries are there for. Finding information.
>> 


Black, red, mustard; equal horizontal stripes.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 19 09:06:13 PDT 1996
Article: 98786 of soc.culture.canada
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc,soc.history.science,soc.culture.usa,sci.econ,soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.canada,soc.cultur
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Canadian States?
Message-ID: <9127cc$9251e.23a@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:37:30 GMT
References: <50sfmc$hkn@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  <510vgm$f17@misc.twics.com> <51acfe$1ch@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>   <3238E0AC.5D2C@popmail.skypoint.com> <51f <51mh3q$c59@news.inforamp.net>
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In article <51mh3q$c59@news.inforamp.net>, dlj@inforamp.net (David Lloyd-Jones) says:
>
>Joseph Edward Nemec  wrote:
>
>>Come on, it's a much greater chance than that. You and I both know that
>>Quebec is going to secede within the next 5-10 years, and all bets are
>>off after that. It just takes one sincere US President to offer
>>Canadians a one-for-one deal on the dollar, American for Canadian, and
>>I'd be willing to be that there is a union.
> 
>Americanizing the Canadian dollar at one for one would wipe out the
>Canadian auto industry overnight and put us all on pogey -- if we
>still had pogey after the American right wing got through with us.
> 
>Not a terribly bright idea.
> 


If a weak currency resulted in a strong economy, then Italy would
be leading Europe and Germany would be an economic basket case.

IMHO, the USA should invite all English speaking areas of Canada to
join the union.  The French speaking areas would not be welcome.

Remember: French is the national language of Canada.  If a product
is labeled only in French it can be put on retail shelves all over
Canada.  Untrue of any other language.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 19 09:06:14 PDT 1996
Article: 98798 of soc.culture.canada
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc,soc.history.science,soc.culture.usa,sci.econ,soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.canada,soc.cultur
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Canadian States?
Message-ID: <9127cc$f28e.253@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 20:40:14 GMT
References: <50sfmc$hkn@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  <510vgm$f17@misc.twics.com> <51acfe$1ch@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>   <3238E0AC.5D2C@popmail.skypoint.com> <51f <51pc7o$q3g@usenet.Hydro.ON.CA>
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In article <51pc7o$q3g@usenet.Hydro.ON.CA>, Dwight Zerkee  says:

>Secondly, English and French are the official languages of Canada and 
all packaging has to have both languages on them. One could only get 
>away with French only in Quebec. In Alberta or BC, there would be a 
>riot.
>

No, not a riot, but reduced sales.  I tried it.  :-)  No problem with
'the authorities'.  In B.C. and Alberta one can use any one language, 
Chinese, Japanese, Korean, French, or even English.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 19 09:06:15 PDT 1996
Article: 98808 of soc.culture.canada
Newsgroups: can.community.military,can.general,can.politics,soc.history.war.misc,soc.culture.canada
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Valour and Horror (was: Re: Somalia Enquiry)
Message-ID: <9127cc$92bb.302@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:43:11 GMT
References: <5022qj$dt0@ktk2.smartt.com>  <50cigu$3dl@ktk2.smartt.com> <50j8c4$7pd@freenet-news.carleton.ca <323de57c.10025789@198.59.115.25>
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In article <323de57c.10025789@198.59.115.25>, schelby@swcp.com (E.F.Schelby) says:

>
>Result: a carefully planned firestorm (not a fluke) that had
>hurricane force, produced temperatures of 800 degrees Centigrade,
>and sucked up all air/oxygen. Street frontages of about 130 miles
>were ablaze during the inferno.
>
>45,000 non-combatants died. At least 5000 of them were children.
>Causes of death: suffocation; being roasted alive; being buried
>alive; dying from severe burns and lack of medical help in the midst
>of chaos. A new word entered the language: "Schrumpfleiche" for
>black bodies shrunken to half their size by incineration. 900,000
>people became homeless.

There is no question that the results noted above were the intended
results.  The US and UK bomber commands knew quite well what they
were trying to do.  It is also true that many US (but not UK) 
aviators were lied to so as to salve their consciences.

The only meaningful question is 'was it proper to kill as many
German civilians as possible?'.  

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Thu Sep 19 12:48:56 PDT 1996
Article: 91375 of can.general
Newsgroups: can.community.military,can.general,can.politics,soc.history.war.misc,soc.culture.canada
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Valour and Horror (was: Re: Somalia Enquiry)
Message-ID: <9127cc$92bb.302@news.comet.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:43:11 GMT
References: <5022qj$dt0@ktk2.smartt.com>  <50cigu$3dl@ktk2.smartt.com> <50j8c4$7pd@freenet-news.carleton.ca <323de57c.10025789@198.59.115.25>
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In article <323de57c.10025789@198.59.115.25>, schelby@swcp.com (E.F.Schelby) says:

>
>Result: a carefully planned firestorm (not a fluke) that had
>hurricane force, produced temperatures of 800 degrees Centigrade,
>and sucked up all air/oxygen. Street frontages of about 130 miles
>were ablaze during the inferno.
>
>45,000 non-combatants died. At least 5000 of them were children.
>Causes of death: suffocation; being roasted alive; being buried
>alive; dying from severe burns and lack of medical help in the midst
>of chaos. A new word entered the language: "Schrumpfleiche" for
>black bodies shrunken to half their size by incineration. 900,000
>people became homeless.

There is no question that the results noted above were the intended
results.  The US and UK bomber commands knew quite well what they
were trying to do.  It is also true that many US (but not UK) 
aviators were lied to so as to salve their consciences.

The only meaningful question is 'was it proper to kill as many
German civilians as possible?'.  

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 21 18:45:26 PDT 1996
Article: 67466 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Message-ID: <9137cc$8161a.d2@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:22:26 GMT
References: <518gkq$mvb@dscomsa.desy.de>   <51kn6e$3ck@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <51kvn5$1c44@sol.caps.maine.edu> 
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In article <51ph8n$frk@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) says:
>
>On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:05:40 +0100, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>>The reason, why WW2 started, was because Hitler invaded 
>>Non-German countries like Poland.  If Germany had stayed 
>>within it's own border, England and France would never
>>have declared war. England and France would never have 
>>started a war of solely ideological reasons. WW2 was 
>>not an ideological war. 
>
>        Germany only invaded Silesia which was part of Germany 
>that had been given to Poland.  England declared war against 
>Germany in defense of the Treaty of Versailles despite the 
>excuse that it was in defense of Poland.  Had it been the
>latter they would have attacked Russia also.  

Certainly Germany had more "right" to the Polish Corridor
than, say, the 'rest of' Czechoslovakia.  

The borders set after W.W.I were crazy.  (And I agree that they
were, in large measure, the design of US President Wilson, easily
a prime contender for the "worst president" prize.)  Look at the
problem areas today, Jugoslovkia, Kusdistan, Czechoslovakia, all
Wilson concepts.  He created the Polish Corridor and gave
Danzig, a German city, to the Poles.  He felt that Poland had
to have access to the sea.  Why?  Czechoslovakia didn't have 
access.

Anyway, W.W.I's Treaty of Versailles and Wilson were the cause of
W.W.II.  And we are continuing to pay for Wilson's mistakes in
other parts of the world.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 21 18:45:27 PDT 1996
Article: 67467 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Message-ID: <9137cc$81820.10f@news.comet.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:24:32 GMT
References:    
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In article <51jd27$7p@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>, abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) says:
>
>schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>>Silke is NOT the only person who has stated this.
>>
>>Please admit your mistake.
>
>This is true. Although it is not possible to BUY "Mein Kampf" 
>you won't be thrown into prison if you possess a copy.

No, you can not print and distribute "Mein Kampf", but you
can legally buy (or sell) an old printing.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 22 08:30:27 PDT 1996
Article: 86612 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Oktoberfest Origin?
Message-ID: <9157cc$102112.b8@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:33:18 GMT
Organization: self
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.4
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I read that the origin of Oktoberfest was as follows:  
Due to the warm weather beer could not be brewed in
Germany from about May through September.  To supply
the summer needs beer was brewed and stored.  When
in September the first new beer was ready, there
was a festival at which all of the old beer was 
drunk up -- after all, it was no longer marketable
with new beer available.

Is this true?


BTW, the best Oktoberfest beer is Watzdorfer Oktoberfest
dunkel.  Try it.  Watzdorf is near Bad Blankenburg in
Thüringen; Watzdorfer, seit 1411.

GFH 

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 22 23:08:27 PDT 1996
Article: 67816 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Message-ID: <9167cc$10376.15@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:55:06 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <523me4$nom@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
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Let no one forget that the attempt by the US Navy to
come to the aid of the USS Liberty was recalled by Sec.
of Defense McNamara -- up to his ususal high quality of
service.

And one really has to hand it to the Israelis, they have
managed to bury the USS Liberty incident quite thoroughly.

For a politician to look into the USS Liberty is to assure
millions of dollars spent for his defeat in the next
election.  That threat works.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 22 23:33:58 PDT 1996
Article: 86691 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GERMAN TRANSLATION NEEDED!!!
Message-ID: <9167cc$10392f.2c0@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:57:47 GMT
References: <4p2mp8$8o1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <523h11$gg0@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
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In article <523h11$gg0@lantana.singnet.com.sg>, ashley65@singnet.com.sg (Ash) says:

>I need someone to translate an German article
>to English. It is a .htm file, which talks about
>a certain musician. 

Just post the German (without the html marks) and you will
probably (90 - 95% sure) get a good translation here.

If it is Mozart, Telemann or Haydn, I'll do it myself.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 23 10:18:01 PDT 1996
Article: 21093 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Doenitz at Nuremberg
Date: 22 Sep 1996 17:55:21 GMT
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In article <521mcq$elj@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, ad201@freenet.carleton.ca
(Donald Phillipson) says:
>Wrong:  Nuremberg 1945-6 was almost the only trial conducted with a
>4-power panel of judges.  Nearly all later trials were by single
>nations (US, British, French, Russian, Australian, etc.)

Yes, the actual Nuremberg trials were more limited than people
generally remember, because they add the other trials, often of
military leaders like von Manstein, to the catagory of the
"Nuremberg war crimes trials".  As these individuals were tried
under principles developed in Nuremberg, I generally agree that
such a 'lumping together' is appropriate.

>Right:  Germans were never tried for breach of "military justice
>proceedures of any of the Allied Powers;"  they were tried for
>breaches of (a) German military code, (b) German criminal law, (c)
>international law ratified by Germany, (d) "crimes against humanity"
>(judge-made law dating from Nuremberg 1945-6.)

I find it hard to agree that these men were tried under 1, 2 or
3 above.  Certainly the proceedures were all # 4 - "judge-made
law dating from Nuremberg 1945-6". 

>>You will note that the major objection to the Nuremberg Process
>>found on this thread is the use of special rules to try enemy
>>officers for 'crimes' which were also carried out by Allied
>>officers, often with medals as rewards.
>
>This is simply unfounded. (snip) It means one country's attacking 
>a neutral (e.g. Denmark, Holland, 1940) or a country with which it 
>has a peace pact (Russia 1941.))

Oh well.  Woodrow Wilson invaded 16 countries, including Mexaco,
to teach the Mexicans to vote for the correct candidate.  It seems 
to me that all wars start between countries which were at peace at 
the time.  

>No Allied officers were "often" rewarded with medals for actions like
>the Nazis'.

My favorite is the destroyer captain who, off Norfolk, sunk a 
German u-boat (the first sinking by an American) and depth charged
the swimming Germans (clear proof that the sub was sunk) and then
brought 39 bodies back to Norfolk, where he was rewarded.

There are too many examples of machine-gunning survivors in
life rafts to even list.  PT boats killed 3,000 Japanese
in one night in this way.
 
>1.  Doenitz was indicted by the Big Four (not Britain alone).  (Anyone
>who was head of the Nazi state and government at the date of surrender
>would have been indicted, whatever his job had been one month or five
>years before.)

I find it hard to accept that whoever was responsible for the
German government at the surrender *had* to be indicted.  Perhaps
he was in htat position *because* he had clean hands.

>3.  The prosecutor's actual charges of criminal conduct were:
>-- Participation in the Nazi conspiracy;

A charge of monumental scope and vagueness.  

>-- Orders to sink ships without prior warning (which Doenitz said
>   was forced by Britain's arming merchant ships with guns);

Hey, didn't Roosevelt issue an identical order for US forces in
the Pacific?  Japan is not Germany, one can not claim reciprocity.

>-- Hitler's "Commando Order" of Oct. 1942 (that captured commandos
>   including boat crews should not become PoWs, but handed over to the
>   SD for immediate execution);

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't our commandos have orders
not to take prisoners?  Reciprocity is a well established principle
of war.

>-- Sinking ships under neutral flags (in war zones.)

Didn't US Navy ships, flying a neutral flag, attack and sink German
u-boats in the North Atlantic before war was declared?  Mistakes do
happen; others were deliberate tricks by the UK to make the Germans
look evil -- advising a ship-load of refugees that they had arranged
with the Germans that the ship could sail from France to England
with all light on for identification; never telling the Germans;
result the ship was sunk and the British claimed a propaganda victory.

But the worst misuse of the 'war crimes rules' was by the individual
countries, including the USA.  Officers were tried, convicted and
executed for "crimes" which were specifically permitted by the
military standards of the country conducting the trials.

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 23 10:18:02 PDT 1996
Article: 21108 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Blatant SOVIET assaults and the HYPOCRACY of the west.
Date: 23 Sep 1996 00:14:49 GMT
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In article <523ueg$sj0@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, jstrzelc@chem.utoronto.ca
(Jacek Strzelczyk) says:
>
>On 20 Sep 1996 20:50:24 GMT, DvdThomas (dvdthomas@aol.com) wrote:
>
>>Poland is often portrayed as an innocent victim through the years, 
>>when in fact they often acted out the part of saber-rattling 
>>aggressors.  
>
>        Care to provide some evidence for this generalization?
>

Not exactly on that point, but on the issue of Poland's borders
as established after W.W.I.  Poland's insistance on the Polish
Corridor and the "free city" of Danzig virtually assured Poland
a position in front of the sights of a German gun.  The decision
to take "German" territory from Czechoslovokia and Poland was
ill-fated, as was almost all of Woodrow Wilson's international
actions.  W.W.II was a direct consequence, and we are still
trying to clean up his mistakes in Jugoslovia and Kurdistan.
Thankfully Czechoslovokia managed to make corrections on their
own.

GFH




From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 23 13:02:55 PDT 1996
Article: 68023 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <9177cc$c372e.3df@news.comet.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:55:46 GMT
References:  <50agrb$17s@sjx <51fel8$t4n@netnews.upenn.edu> <9f7cc$a322b.375@news.comet.net> <524n4r$824@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
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In article <524n4r$824@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>, wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) says:
>
>Pardon me, but I have never seen a BATF agent at all, much less a
>jackbooted one. I do own arms. 

Are you aware that the BATF has admitted that it is their
standard policy to lie in court?  That an investigation of
testimony of BATF agents in criminal trials found that in 49% 
of all cases, the BATF agents committed perjury, with the full
approval of the administration.  And that this has been the
policy since, at least, 1979, so both political parties are
in agreement with this policy.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 23 14:08:05 PDT 1996
Article: 68085 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.netone.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Message-ID: <9177cc$d127.30a@news.comet.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:01:39 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) says:

>Perhaps you could back up, though, and explain to us what the
>whole situation has to do with the Holocaust?  

Absolutely nothing.  Why did you bring up the Holocaust when
the thread was on the USS Liberty?  I did not interject it,
you did.

The McNamara reference was to the Vietnam War -- very aggressive
in that case, but unwilling to all the US Navy to support its
own ship in the USS Liberty incident.  Why?

GFH 



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 23 15:39:07 PDT 1996
Article: 86771 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Message-ID: <9177cc$d127.30a@news.comet.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:01:39 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) says:

>Perhaps you could back up, though, and explain to us what the
>whole situation has to do with the Holocaust?  

Absolutely nothing.  Why did you bring up the Holocaust when
the thread was on the USS Liberty?  I did not interject it,
you did.

The McNamara reference was to the Vietnam War -- very aggressive
in that case, but unwilling to all the US Navy to support its
own ship in the USS Liberty incident.  Why?

GFH 



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 23 17:34:25 PDT 1996
Article: 102181 of alt.censorship
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.netone.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Message-ID: <9177cc$d127.30a@news.comet.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:01:39 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) says:

>Perhaps you could back up, though, and explain to us what the
>whole situation has to do with the Holocaust?  

Absolutely nothing.  Why did you bring up the Holocaust when
the thread was on the USS Liberty?  I did not interject it,
you did.

The McNamara reference was to the Vietnam War -- very aggressive
in that case, but unwilling to all the US Navy to support its
own ship in the USS Liberty incident.  Why?

GFH 



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 24 08:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 68330 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Message-ID: <9187cc$a228.2f2@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:02:40 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <527835$sct@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <527835$sct@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) says:
>
>George F. Hardy (georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us) wrote:
>: In article <5254pr$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) says:
>: Absolutely nothing.  Why did you bring up the Holocaust when
>: the thread was on the USS Liberty?  I did not interject it,
>: you did.
>
>Well, you're posting on alt.revisionism...
>

I LOVE it.  All things are related to the Holocaust, if posted on
alt.revisionism.

Ever heard of John Dean, Watergate and his effort to prevent 
proof that his wife, Mo, was a prostitute and booked clients
through the Democratic National Committee?  That sound like
"revisionism", whether from a lie to the truth, or the other
way around is still to be determined.  And the Holocaust fit
in just how???

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Tue Sep 24 15:19:29 PDT 1996
Article: 68422 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Message-ID: <9187cc$1119e.b0@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:25:14 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <3247f9e3.4446508@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <3247f9e3.4446508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) says:

>        Israel is the product of the Holocaust.

You are the first I have encountered who will admit it.

The Holocaust was a necessary and sufficient condition for
the creation of Israel.  So thank the Germans.  ;-)

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Wed Sep 25 10:00:40 PDT 1996
Article: 99053 of soc.culture.canada
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc,soc.history.science,soc.culture.usa,sci.econ,soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.canada,soc.cultur
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Canadian States?
Message-ID: <9187cc$93130.d5@news.comet.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:49:48 GMT
References: <50sfmc$hkn@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <521prh$4gp@milo.vcn.bc.ca>
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In article <521prh$4gp@milo.vcn.bc.ca>, risdon@vcn.bc.ca (James Risdon) says:
>
>As a Canadian, I can assure you that Canada will not join 
>the United States. 

Thank God!  And I hope you enjoy your Quebecoirs (sp?).

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 28 09:32:17 PDT 1996
Article: 69613 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder.
Message-ID: <91c7cc$93510.1e@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 14:53:16 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <324C017A.435D@tor250.org>
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In article <324C017A.435D@tor250.org>, A Gryn  says:

>The fact that the Liberty was a spy ship just means that it wouldn't
>have been murder to have killed all of them.


The USS Liberty was not a spy ship.  It flew a USA flag quite
clearly.  

Israel painted out the naitonal markings on the aircraft they
used to attack the USS Liberty.

I would say that the facts speak for themselves.  Israel was
the dishonest, covert, (by international law) illegally acting
country.  The USA was operating a military ship, clearly marked,
in international waters.

Israel was wrong, and *knew* that they were wrong.

GFH  



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 28 10:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 102973 of alt.censorship
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder.
Message-ID: <91c7cc$93510.1e@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 14:53:16 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <324C017A.435D@tor250.org>
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In article <324C017A.435D@tor250.org>, A Gryn  says:

>The fact that the Liberty was a spy ship just means that it wouldn't
>have been murder to have killed all of them.


The USS Liberty was not a spy ship.  It flew a USA flag quite
clearly.  

Israel painted out the naitonal markings on the aircraft they
used to attack the USS Liberty.

I would say that the facts speak for themselves.  Israel was
the dishonest, covert, (by international law) illegally acting
country.  The USA was operating a military ship, clearly marked,
in international waters.

Israel was wrong, and *knew* that they were wrong.

GFH  



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 28 10:11:17 PDT 1996
Article: 87204 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German
Message-ID: <91b7cc$c2e1a.32e@news.comet.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:46:26 GMT
References: <4vgd6s$7hr@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz> <6GfbeXoAjHB@hit-l.huth.hit.handshake.de> <51i2l4$2jcs@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <6HV5pYvfjHB@hit-l.huth.hit.handshake.de>
Organization: self
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In article <6HV5pYvfjHB@hit-l.huth.hit.handshake.de>, l.huth@hit.handshake.de (Lisa C. Huth) says:
>
>
>>What is one to call "das Maedchen"?  :-)
>
>Very interesting point. "DAS Mädchen" reveals a lot about the 
>social relations of our forefathers: You just had "das Mädchen" 
>and "die Frau". A female was considered as a neuter being as long 
>as it was not in the "propriety" of her husband. 

No, no, no.

A female was never considered neuter.  You confuse "sex" and "gender".
In German, the diminutive, regardless of "sex", is neuter gender.

Just because Americans say "gender" when they mean "sex" (because
they feel the extra syllable adds class?), doesn't means that
Germans don't know the difference.

Gender is covered by rules in the German language, and does cut
across sexual boundaries.

GF



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 28 10:11:18 PDT 1996
Article: 87263 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder.
Message-ID: <91c7cc$93510.1e@news.comet.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 14:53:16 GMT
References:  <6doDoOev1WUE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <51c401$bir@ <324C017A.435D@tor250.org>
Organization: self
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In article <324C017A.435D@tor250.org>, A Gryn  says:

>The fact that the Liberty was a spy ship just means that it wouldn't
>have been murder to have killed all of them.


The USS Liberty was not a spy ship.  It flew a USA flag quite
clearly.  

Israel painted out the naitonal markings on the aircraft they
used to attack the USS Liberty.

I would say that the facts speak for themselves.  Israel was
the dishonest, covert, (by international law) illegally acting
country.  The USA was operating a military ship, clearly marked,
in international waters.

Israel was wrong, and *knew* that they were wrong.

GFH  



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 28 18:01:09 PDT 1996
Article: 31599 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.california,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.usa,43,alt.anything,alt.fan-howard-stern,alt.christnet,alt.chr
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.comet.net!not-for-mail
From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Christain
Message-ID: <91c7cc$131d33.69@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:29:51 GMT
References: <324084A6.80A@avana.net> <51t02r$9mo_001@bopeep.uwaterloo.ca> <521e9f$6fn@news.onramp.net> <32445b55.5707751@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <521ran$epi@n <52itfd$ija@news.ios.com>
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In article <52itfd$ija@news.ios.com>, Beth  says:

>        On the other hand there exists extensive evidence of a 
>forensic, demographic, analytical, documentary, anecdotal, and 
>comparative nature which clearly proves the impossibility of such 
>a figure as six million Jewish dead, an exaggeration of possibly 
>1000%.


I barely scanned the rest of this diatribe.  Too much and too long
and too full of bias.  How exaggerated is "six million"?  My guess
is about 3x to 4x.  So what?  Whatever the number it was a lot,
far too many.  

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sat Sep 28 18:01:10 PDT 1996
Article: 31600 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.california,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.usa,43,alt.anything,alt.fan-howard-stern,alt.christnet,alt.chr
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Christain
Message-ID: <91c7cc$13242f.248@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:36:47 GMT
References: <324084A6.80A@avana.net> <51t02r$9mo_001@bopeep.uwaterloo.ca> <521e9f$6fn@news.onramp.net> <32445b55.5707751@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <521ran$epi@n <324D358B.7D6A@cannet.com>
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In article <324D358B.7D6A@cannet.com>, "Fr. John W. Morris"  says:

>
>>         27. IS THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANK GENUINE?
>> 
>Yes. You can go to the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam.


If that is the best you can answer, then I have to conclude
that the accusation is correct.  I can visit the Sleeping
Beauty Castle -- in several countries.  In this part of 
Virginia I can see John-boy's home.

Yes, Anne Frank was real.  Does that provide the least evidence
that she wrote the diary?  Credibility requires a better, and
more meaningful answer.  It would have been better simply to
delete this question, instead of coming up with this inadequate
answer.

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 29 09:09:20 PDT 1996
Article: 69954 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder.
Message-ID: <91d7cc$a112d.212@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:17:45 GMT
References:  <324C017A.435D@tor250.org> <91c7cc$93510.1e@news.comet.net> <52k3th$pp5@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
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In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) says:
>
>when I was studying this matter in 1992.
>

OK, what do you think is the explanation for the attack on
the USS Liberty?

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 29 09:55:09 PDT 1996
Article: 87295 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: GENDER in English and German
Message-ID: <91c7cc$13182a.6e@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:24:42 GMT
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In article , gonser@eawag.ch (-Tom-) says:
>
>muller@noao.edu (Beatrice Muller) wrote:

>
>No. Once they reach a certain age they like to say Jungs and Maedels.

Maedel is a contraction of Maedelein, just as Gretel is a contraction.
I believe that the neuter gender still applies.

Remember "das Kaiserlein".

GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 29 16:39:44 PDT 1996
Article: 103188 of alt.censorship
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder.
Message-ID: <91d7cc$112716.231@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:39:22 GMT
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In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) says:
>
>georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:
>
># OK, what do you think is the explanation for the attack on
># the USS Liberty?
>
>The same explanation as the one for the cases of "friendly
>fire" in the Gulf War. The ship was misidentified as an
>Egyptian ship.

Was that the air attack or the torpedo attack several hours 
later by the boats -- the ones who machine gunned the life
rafts and took one on board?

No, Israel tried the "confused with an Egyptian ship" excuse
and could not find any Egyptian ship which came even close to
the USS LIberty.

Care for another go?
GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Sun Sep 29 16:52:05 PDT 1996
Article: 70075 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder.
Message-ID: <91d7cc$112716.231@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:39:22 GMT
References:  <52k3th$pp5@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <91d7cc$a112d.212@news.comet.net> 
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In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) says:
>
>georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:
>
># OK, what do you think is the explanation for the attack on
># the USS Liberty?
>
>The same explanation as the one for the cases of "friendly
>fire" in the Gulf War. The ship was misidentified as an
>Egyptian ship.

Was that the air attack or the torpedo attack several hours 
later by the boats -- the ones who machine gunned the life
rafts and took one on board?

No, Israel tried the "confused with an Egyptian ship" excuse
and could not find any Egyptian ship which came even close to
the USS LIberty.

Care for another go?
GFH



From georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us Mon Sep 30 08:44:58 PDT 1996
Article: 31719 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy)
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Christain
Message-ID: <91d7cc$11282c.3ac@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:40:44 GMT
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In article <52k07b$22d@news1.panix.com>, fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) says:
>
>I'll just guarantee that Father Morris is a Jesuit.
>
>Gotta love Jesuits!!!  Best kinda Catholic around.  Sharpest minds in
>the church, bar none.


And your point is???

GFH




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