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Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/griswold.leslie/lies/les-10q


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination
Subject: Ten Questions for Les Griswold 
Summary: Les Griswold admits he's a liar after a mere 270
         days, and faces one amended question and one completely new 
         question.
Followup-To: alt.politics.white-power
Distribution: world
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Keywords: 

Archive/File: people/g/griswold.leslie/les-10q
Last-Modified: 1996/06/22 (File split)

Mr. Griswold,

   You have often, in your embarrassing years here on the net, made 
   statements which others have questioned.  Strangely, however, you 
   rarely, if ever, provide _answers_ to those questions.

   In the never-ending quest for reality, therefore, I have determined
   to repeat these questions for you, in the hope that you will
   eventually get around to answering them. (That is unlikely,
   of course, since, as a leading Canadian "National Alliance"
   member (Is Mr. Griswold _really_ the best the National
   Alliance can come up with in Canada?), you don't deal in 
   facts, but empty rhetoric.)

Question One                                     [January, 1995]
------------

   (I have omitted the background data here, as this specific issue 
   is dealt with extensively in another regular post.*)

   A. How many Natives were there on the North American
      continent prior to the arrival of the white man?
   B. How many are there now?

Question Two, v1.0                                 [April, 1995]
Question Two, v1.5                              [December, 1995]
------------

   This question has been changed. The background text
   remains the same, but the question itself has changed.

   On April 3, 1995, you published the following assertions:

     Liberals LOVE to go on about how "Whites beat Blacks too, so
     let's not hear about Black-on-White crime anymore!" As if a
     few isolated incidents equal the undeclared race war that
     the Black race is perpetrating on the White race!  Just a
     few facts:

     1.  A majority of people murdered by Blacks are not Black.

     2.  In 1988 there were ten cases of White men raping Black
     women in the U.S., but NINE THOUSAND, FOUR HUNDRED AND FIVE
     (that's 9,405) cases of Blacks raping White women.
     
     3.  White criminals attack Blacks only 2% of the time.

     4.  In 1985, there were 629,000 interracial attacks recorded
     by the FBI.  90% were Black on White.

     Gee, since Blacks only make up about 13% of the U.S.
     population, one would expect that they only commit 13% of
     the crime.

     (Yeah, we really believe THAT one!) (Griswold, Black on Black)

   When queried about the source for your statistics, you claimed it
   to be "The FBI Uniform Crime Report," (Griswold, Griswold makes
   more claims) but, as more than one user pointed out, the FBI does
   _not_ report arrest figures for interracial rape.  (See, for
   instance, Marty Kelly, who published the following...)

   "So I took a look at Susan Brownmiller's _Against Our Will: Men,
   Women and Rape_ (New York, Simon & Schuster, 1975), one of the more
   significant discussions of how discussions of rape get used
   politically.  I knew her 1970s statistics wouldn't be generalizable
   to this thread, but thought I might find some useful points.  I
   did.  In her discussion of the thorny complications involved in
   talking about rape and race, she mentions that "The FBI holds to a
   firm policy of not reporting arrest figures for interracial rape"
   (Brownmiller 214). ...that policy still seems to be in effect."
   (Kelly, Griswold makes up...)

   ==> New text begins here

   The OLD question, therefore, was this: (a) Where did you get your
   statistics, and (b) why did you lie about them, since it is quite
   clear that you did _not_ obtain them from the cited source?

   The new question has its roots in an ongoing discussion with one 
   Mr. Jeffrey Brown, who made the following comment:

     Which observations, Griswold? Observations like the 9,405 
     black-on-white rapes you claimed took place in 1988, for 
     which no documentation has ever been produced? 
     Observations of _that_ quality?

   To your credit, Mr. Griswold, you admit "having been
   proven wrong." Alas, Mr. Griswold, you were gilding
   the lily just a tad: the reality is that you were 
   admitting to the truth: that you had openly lied 
   about their source. We had suspected that you had
   simply made them up from the beginning - April 3rd, 
   1995, and known you were lying on April 14. Your
   long-delayed admission follows:

     That's really good, Brown.  The fact is, NEGROES COMMIT 
     CRIME, and they commit crime far out of proportion to their 
     representation in the general population.  Don't wet 
     yourself over having proved me wrong on one stat; you may 
     have won the battle, but you are FAR from winning the war.
     (Griswold, re: sickening)

   The amended question, v1.5, therefore is:

   Why did you wait 270 days before admitting you were a liar,
   when it had been common knowledge for fully 259 days?

Question Three					[March 1995]
--------------

               The Jews are in the United States

   In late March of 1995, in response to the following query from
   Kevin Filan,

   "Assuming the Holocaust was a "hoax," where did all the Jews of
   Poland and eastern Europe go?"

   Your considered reply was: "The United States." (Griswold, 6
   Million)

   Mr. Filan responded with the following:

   "You obviously believe that the missing Jews of Eastern Europe are
   now in New York and Miami Beach," to which you replied:

     "And you obviously believe that they aren't."

   Mr.  Filan then asked if you could provide evidence for your
   assertion that the Jews had immigrated to the United States.  Your
   response appeared calculated to suggest that immigration statistics
   would not provide evidence, since "Jew" was not a relevant
   classification:

     "Do you mean before or after "jew" was no longer a racial
     classification, and jews called themselves as "German", "Polish",
     "Hungarian", etc., depending on their country of origin?"
     (Griswold, 6 Million [2])

   Mr.  Filan then produced relevant immigration statistics from the
   United States government.  These statistics demonstrated that
   approximately 480,000 people, of all races and national origins,
   immigrated to the United States during the Nazi era, thus
   demolishing your claim that the missing European Jews had all moved
   to the United States. (Filan, 6 Million) The Jewish population of 
   Miami Beach, by the way, Mr. Griswold, is approximately 340,000. 

   Question #3, therefore, Mr. Griswold, is as follows:

   Since it has been conclusively demonstrated that the missing
   European Jews could not possibly have immigrated to the United
   States, where did the Jews of Eastern Europe go?

Question Four					[April 1995]
-------------

   In early April of 1995, you made the following statement:

     And you might want to keep a lid on that "human soap" shit -
     no-one buys it anymore, not even hollow cause hucksters.
     (Griswold, ADV)

   In my reply (1995Apr22.224610.23271@oneb.almanac.bc.ca), I asked you
   the following question, and asked that you share your sources:

     Does this mean, Mr.  Griswold, that you, alone among scholars,
     "revisionist" or no, have finally located the long-sought
     refutation of the testimony of Mazur et al with regard to
     Stutthof?

   To date, Mr. Griswold, you have failed to respond in any way, or,
   of course, provide any source documentation for your assertion
   regarding "human soap shit." My question above, therefore,
   constitutes Question #4.

   You have not attempted to question the Stutthof experiments.

   You have not attempted to discredit Mazur, or the others who
   testified at Nuremberg. Instead, you elected silence, even in the
   certain knowledge that it would make you appear even more foolish
   than you have in the past - which is saying something.
   
   Why is that, Mr. Griswold? Are you content to have the world regard
   you as nothing more than a loud-mouthed, uneducated simpleton? (A
   regard which, judging from your track record thus far, is richly
   deserved, and utterly accurate.)

Question Five					[June 1995]
-------------

   In June of 1995, you made the astounding claim reproduced below:

     Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:

     > In article , 
     > bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
 
     >> It has everything to do with this or any other newsgroup on 
     >> politics. Oh, your favorite hero Adolf Hitler commited suicide 
     >> in case you had forgotton.
    
     > Wartime propaganda.  Hitler died fighting.
 
     > Fighting whom? Are you saying that he didn't die in the bunker, 
     > but on the front lines? Amazing that no one noticed him.

     No, Raggedy Andy, he died fighting the Russians.  Remember those 
     lovable, cuddly communist nice guys?  They were swarming all over 
     Berlin in late April of 1945. 

   The question, Mr. Griswold, is this: What led you to this astounding
   conclusion, given the documented history of Hitler's suicide?

Question Six					[June 1995]
------------

   In June of 1995, during a discussion in which you seemed to
   support selective inbreeding, you made the following comment:
 
     "... if you had been following the debate earlier, you'd realize that 
     inbreeding must be coupled with keeping undesirable specimens from 
     breeding.  Of course, most libs had shrieking fits when they saw that."
     (Griswold, Incest)

   I would ask, Mr. Griswold, that you define the term "undesirable
   specimens," and outline precisely how you would prevent them from
   breeding.

Question Seven					[June 1995]
--------------

   During a discussion with Andy Walton (Griswold, Tactics for Racial
   Survival), you made the following comment:

     "Like that LBJ was right to force White girls at bayonet point i
     into a school with a Black student?"

   Although many users responded by asking you to document the
   claim that a white girl was forced, at bayonet point, "into
   a school with a Black student," you have failed to do so.
   Question Seven, therefore, is this:

   At what school did this event allegedly occur, and on what
   day? In addition, can you cite specific newspaper reports
   and/or published books which document this event?

Question Eight					[June 1995]
--------------

   In a classic example of Griswoldese, you made the following
   statements in a discussion in alt.skinheads:

     If a jewish kiddie is TAUGHT that it's normal for the nice 
     bearded man to touch him/her on the naughty bits, then he/she 
     won't REPORT it as sexual abuse, will he/she?

     Anyway, what about the oral sex that all jewish boys are 
     submitted to by eight days of age when the _mohel_ 
     circumcises them, then sucks the blood out of the wound, 
     with a mouthful of wine the whole time?

   Please do enlighten your non-Jewish audience, Mr. Griswold,
   by providing documentation for both assertions (that Jewish
   children are _taught_ to submit to sexual abuse, and that
   the mohel's practice equates with oral sex).

Question Nine					[August 1995]
-------------

   In article , in response to a 
   continuing discussion between myself and Marc Lemire, during
   which I stated:

      "Mr. Lemire apparently has difficulty relating to Canada's 
      legal system, as he continues to assert that the "Jewish 
      Armed Resistance" (an apparently non-existent, long-defunct 
      group) was responsible for the Zundel arson."

   You replied:

      "Funny, that.  A Revisionist gets his house torched by a party, 
      or parties, unknown, and you rush to their defense with 'innocent 
      until proven guilty'.  Yet, EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of White on 
      non-White violence is a 'neoNazi' plot.  Am I the only one who 
      smells 'double standard' around here?" (Griswold, McOyVay the
      masochist!)

   It would appear that your intent was to create the impression
   that I and other users here believe, and state, that "every
   single instance of white on non-white violence is a neo-nazi
   plot."

   The question, therefore, is this: What articles can you provide
   that establish that either I, or others here, have expressed
   this view?  

   Since it is clear that you cannot provide any such articles,
   the second part of the question addresses your motivation:
   Why have you lied about this matter?

Question Ten					[August 1995]
------------
   On August 19, 1995, you surpassed even your own previous
   performance levels with the following assertion:

      The "Russian" Mafia is mostly jewish.  (Griswold, 
      lynch-pin)

   Please enlighten your vast audience of uneducated users
   by telling us how you arrived at this conclusion, and do
   remember to provide verifiable documentation... you might
   also tell us if this statement represents the "official"
   view of the National Alliance in Canada.

                            ----

   One can, of course, only speculate as to why Mr. Griswold refuses
   to address the questions so frequently asked of him.  What is
   clear, however, is that Mr.  Griswold is afraid of open debate,
   unafraid of inventing statistics to suit his racist, neo-nazi
   agenda, and absolutely unconcerned about being clearly shown to be
   both a liar and a fraud. (How fitting, therefore, that Mr.
   Griswold should represent the "National Alliance" in Canada.
   It would appear that the primary criteria for joining this
   "party" include a proven track record of racism and lies.)

   What a sterling example our Mr. Griswold provides for other
   starry-eyed nazi wannabees...

   * For the complete file on "the Native Population According to
     Griswold," see pub/people/g/griswold.les/natives at
     ftp.almanac.bc.ca. (Anonymous ftp users welcome.)

Works Cited are available at URL
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/griswold.leslie/les-questions.work-cited, or anonymous ftp in

ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/people/g/griswold.leslie/les-questions.work-cited,
or the Nizkor mirror,
nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/people/g/griswold.leslie/les-questions.work-cited

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