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From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Aug 21 17:13:11 PDT 1996
Article: 58796 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination,alt.fan.howard-stern,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.libertarian,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anti-Racist Education 05: Semiotics of the Mac
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:16:17 +0000
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Duncan Coons wrote:
> 
> Anti-Racist Educators Uncover the Mac's Secret Agenda
> 
> Built into computer interfaces are also a series of semiotic messages
> that support this alignment along the axes of class, race, and gender.
> The white pointer hand, for example, ubiquitous in the Macintosh
> primary interface, is one such gesture, as are the menu items of the
> Appleshare server tray and hand, calculator, the moving van (for the
> font DA mover), the suitcase, and the desk calendar. Other
> images--those included in the HyperCard interface commercial clip art
> collections, and in the Apple systems documentation--include a
> preponderance of white people and icons of middle- and upper-class
> white culture and professional, office-oriented computer use. These
> images signal--to users of color, to users who come from a non-English
> language background, to users from low socio-economic backgrounds--that
> entering the virtual world of interfaces also means, at least in part
> at some level, entering a world constituted around the lives and values
> of white, male, middle- and upper-class professionals. Users of color,
> users from non-English language background, users from a low
> socio-economic class who view this map of reality, submit--if only
> partially and momentarily--to an interested version of reality
> represented in terms of both language and image.
> 
> (Richard and Cynthia Selfe writing in the *Journal of the Conference on
> College Composition and Communication*, December 1994; cited in
> *American Spectator* February 1995.)

That's the way it is folks. When "white, male, middle and upper-class
professionals" are replaced as the movers and shakers in this society
by "people of color", then they can change it. Just because the
government
mollycoddles these groups, doesn't mean that business has to or will.
If "people of color" spent more time working on a good education, and 
working on entering the mainstream of late 20th century life instead of
worrying about the color of computer icons, and complaining about subtle
or latent racism, they would find that those cultural anomolies would go
away. Racism continues to exist solely because a case can still be made
(based on the overall performance in this society of black and brown
races)
that these people are perhaps "inferior" in some way. As more brown and 
black people enter the mainstream of western life, and as fewer of them
hold onto those characteristics which give racists fuel for their fires,
the
less racism there will be. After all, you don't hear racial slurs on
Irish-
Americans. or Italian- Americans any more (except in fun. I say in fun 
because jokes about "micks" and "Dagos" don't hurt those of Irish or 
Italian descent any more. They made it, and there is no reason for them 
to feel sensitive about their heritage. No Need for them to feel
anything 
but real pride in their accomplishments both as a group and
personally.), 
and they used to be as bad as anything perpetrated on "people of color' 
today. Its because these people have assimilated and become successful
members of society. That's the key to killing racism. Not this bullKorn
above about Macintosh Icons being "lilly white". Liberal whinners like
this don't help people at all, they only impede the progress of "people
of color" by putting excuses for failure in their path. Just My opinion.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Aug 23 11:33:32 PDT 1996
Article: 52379 of alt.discrimination
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination,alt.fan.howard-stern,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.libertarian,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anti-Racist Education 05: Semiotics of the Mac
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:20:17 +0000
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 57
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Loren Petrich wrote:
> 
> In article <321B1A22.6909@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> >Duncan Coons wrote:
> 
> >> Anti-Racist Educators Uncover the Mac's Secret Agenda
> 
>         [Some fatuous article deleted...]
> 
>         I'm waiting for its authors to announce that it was a hoax.
> 
> >That's the way it is folks. When "white, male, middle and upper-class
> >professionals" are replaced as the movers and shakers in this society
> >by "people of color", then they can change it. Just because the
> >government
> >mollycoddles these groups, doesn't mean that business has to or will.
> 
>         What's "the government"? And how are they being "mollycoddled"???
> I don't call police brutality "mollycoddling".

I call Welfare and "Affirmative Action" Mollycoddling by the State and
Mostly Federal governments.

> 
> >If "people of color" spent more time working on a good education, and
> >working on entering the mainstream of late 20th century life instead of
> >worrying about the color of computer icons, and complaining about subtle
> >or latent racism, they would find that those cultural anomolies would go
> >away.
> 
>         Like what do you have in mind? The sort of fatuous
> deconstructionism originally posted here is little-known outside of
> academia.
> 
>         I may also note that Jews have traditionally valued education --
> but that has *never* stopped people from being prejudiced against them.
> In fact, the classic anti-Semitic stereotype is that they have a gigantic
> and dangerous intelligence.
> 
> ... Racism continues to exist solely because a case can still be made
> >(based on the overall performance in this society of black and brown
> >races)
> >that these people are perhaps "inferior" in some way. As more brown and
> >black people enter the mainstream of western life, and as fewer of them
> >hold onto those characteristics which give racists fuel for their fires,
> >the
> >less racism there will be.
> 
>         "Niggers and spics are not worth wasting any time on" becomes
> rather self-fulfilling.

I don't believe that at all. A good number of people "waste their time"
on
these groups and have seen some wonderful results from doing so.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Aug 23 11:38:06 PDT 1996
Article: 59098 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination,alt.fan.howard-stern,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.libertarian,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anti-Racist Education 05: Semiotics of the Mac
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:20:17 +0000
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <321C6C99.426F@aimnet.com>
References: <01bb8f35$de8f6a00$43ded3c6@default> <321B1A22.6909@aimnet.com> 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:59098 alt.discrimination:52379 alt.fan.howard-stern:29435 alt.society.conservatism:50313 alt.politics.libertarian:199660 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:65793

Loren Petrich wrote:
> 
> In article <321B1A22.6909@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> >Duncan Coons wrote:
> 
> >> Anti-Racist Educators Uncover the Mac's Secret Agenda
> 
>         [Some fatuous article deleted...]
> 
>         I'm waiting for its authors to announce that it was a hoax.
> 
> >That's the way it is folks. When "white, male, middle and upper-class
> >professionals" are replaced as the movers and shakers in this society
> >by "people of color", then they can change it. Just because the
> >government
> >mollycoddles these groups, doesn't mean that business has to or will.
> 
>         What's "the government"? And how are they being "mollycoddled"???
> I don't call police brutality "mollycoddling".

I call Welfare and "Affirmative Action" Mollycoddling by the State and
Mostly Federal governments.

> 
> >If "people of color" spent more time working on a good education, and
> >working on entering the mainstream of late 20th century life instead of
> >worrying about the color of computer icons, and complaining about subtle
> >or latent racism, they would find that those cultural anomolies would go
> >away.
> 
>         Like what do you have in mind? The sort of fatuous
> deconstructionism originally posted here is little-known outside of
> academia.
> 
>         I may also note that Jews have traditionally valued education --
> but that has *never* stopped people from being prejudiced against them.
> In fact, the classic anti-Semitic stereotype is that they have a gigantic
> and dangerous intelligence.
> 
> ... Racism continues to exist solely because a case can still be made
> >(based on the overall performance in this society of black and brown
> >races)
> >that these people are perhaps "inferior" in some way. As more brown and
> >black people enter the mainstream of western life, and as fewer of them
> >hold onto those characteristics which give racists fuel for their fires,
> >the
> >less racism there will be.
> 
>         "Niggers and spics are not worth wasting any time on" becomes
> rather self-fulfilling.

I don't believe that at all. A good number of people "waste their time"
on
these groups and have seen some wonderful results from doing so.

George Graves



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