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Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/giwer.matt/1994/giwer_debate_9402


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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Debate/Poli-Phil - (2471)
To:      Paul Smith                             26 Feb 94 06:02:10
Subject: McDonalds Smoking Ba                   

PS>  PS>           Have you heard about the new natioinwide ban on
PS>  PS>   smoking by McDonalds Restaurants?  The OWNERS are
PS>  PS>   beginning to wise up too.  Hundreds of thousands of
PS>  PS>   children will benefit by this outstanding example.  I hope
PS>  PS>   that all of the others follow suit VERY soon.

PS>  MG>  MacDonalds bent over for the recyclers also.  So what kind
PS>  MG>  of any example is that?  Other than the common fantasies
PS>  MG>  about second hand smoke can you think of any other
PS>  MG>  benefit?

PS>  I certainly can Matt.  It's about time that we started
PS>  practicing what we preach.  It's hypocritical to smoke out
PS>  of one corner of the mouth and tell children not to smoke
PS>  out of the other.

     I know of no children on this conference.  I thought we were
talking to adults.  If you have specific examples please provide
them.

McDonalds is setting a precedent and a
PS>  standard which I hope many will follow.  I know I'll be
PS>  supporting McDonalds to say thanks for such an enlightened
PS>  decision (and, of course, to avoid the nasty tobacco smoke
PS>  ).

     So they decided to get butt fucked by the anti-smokers.

     The millionth dose fantasy still applies.

     I think the current estimate is a person needs be in a
restaurant 24 hours a day for a month to equal on cigarette.

     City living has been defined as a four cigarette a day
habit.

     Run some numbers.

     I looked in and dropped out of this thread as I have dropped
out of the abortion threads.  Both sides on smoking and abortion
are no different in their failure to reason.


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 * RM 1.2 01261 * The Ghost of Gen. Custer is Clinton's military advisor.
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 * Origin: Florida Mail Hub * REC18 * 813-321-0734 * 50:5813/22 (1:3603/20)

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Debate/Poli-Phil - (2472)
To:      Paul Smith                             26 Feb 94 18:01:10
Subject: McDonalds Smoking Ba                   

PS>  MG>  MacDonalds bent over for the recyclers also.  So what kind
PS>  MG>  of any example is that?  Other than the common fantasies
PS>  MG>  about second hand smoke can you think of any other
PS>  MG>  benefit?

PS>  I certainly can Matt.  It's about time that we started
PS>  practicing what we preach.  It's hypocritical to smoke out
PS>  of one corner of the mouth and tell children not to smoke
PS>  out of the other.  McDonalds is setting a precedent and a
PS>  standard which I hope many will follow.  I know I'll be
PS>  supporting McDonalds to say thanks for such an enlightened
PS>  decision (and, of course, to avoid the nasty tobacco smoke
PS>  ).

     And you only have to sit in a MacD 24 hours a day for a
month to get the effect of one cigarette.  You have to be very
hard up for a fix to do that.  In the mean time you will be
living a genuine heart attack diet consuming more fat in a day
than you should in a week.

     Now do you understand the strategy behind this marketing
decision?


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 * RM 1.2 01261 * If you think health care is expensive now, wait til its free
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 * Origin: Florida Mail Hub * REC18 * 813-321-0734 * 50:5813/22 (1:3603/20)

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Debate/Poli-Phil - (2473)
To:      All                                    27 Feb 94 03:01:10
Subject: SOME FUN @ HCI'S EXPENSE               

 *********** Original       To: ALL
 * SILICON *      was       By: MATT GIWER
 *  DUPE   *   posted:      On: MERCOPUS
 ***********              Conf: 1412 - Z_Main_Flame
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 **********  Original From: BOB CLARK
 * STOLEN *             To: DAVID NEWELL
 *  STUFF *    Date/Number: 02/25/94 - 0000669
 **********             On: GUNTALK - 0002 - MEMBER
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

DN>BC>  At any rate, on February 24, 1994 from 12:00 to 15:00 Pacific at
  >BC>570 AM KVI (Seattle) a spokesperson from HCI will be on the radio to
  >BC>defend HCI against this "confidential memo."

DN>Bob --

DN>PLEASE let us know how this went!  I'm sure that everyone would like to
  >know!

  Since I was asked:

  At one o'clock KVI 570 AM (Seattle) presented HCI to Western
Washington. I guess the background is the "alleged confidential memo"
appeared on the Internet sometime yesterday.  KVI, always on the prowl,
received copies of the "alleged confidential memo" from two sources and
broke the story. Today's show was designed to allow HCI a forum to
refute/rebut the contents of the "alleged confidential memo."
  HCI was given about 40 minutes of air time.  The questioning went like
this:
     KVI:  HCI totally disavows this memo?
     HCI:  Correct.
     KVI:  Does HCI want to ban the private ownership of handguns?
     HCI:  The legislation we want doesn't preclude ownership; we
endorse restrictions.  We want to reduce gun violence through common
sense legislation.
     KVI:  What about the 2nd Amendment?
     HCI:  No right is absolute.  (Spokesperson then read 2A up to the
comma).
     KVI:  Well then, if the Founders meant RKBA for the Militia, why
didn't they continue using the term Militia instead of People?
     HCI:  < Quick side step. >
     KVI:  What do you think of this "alleged confidential memo?"
     HCI:   "Silly."
"Outlandish fantasy."  This memo is causing HCI to devote time to
defending itself rather than saving lives.
     KVI:  I won't believe this memo isn't from your organization until
you sue the originators of the hoax for defamation.
     HCI:  Well, we can't find out who originated it because it came
from the Internet.  But it's a hoax.
     KVI:  You support raising fees for FFLs?
     HCI:  Yes.  Everyone should pay the same rate no matter whether you
are a "mom 'n' pop" gun seller or a million dollar retail chain.  No
guns should be sold outside of a retail establishment.  Paying a $1,000
fee is the cost of doing business.

  After that exchange, KVI had Alan Gottlieb (my apologies if I bungled
the name) of the 2nd Amendment Foundation on the air for about 15
minutes.  Mr. Gottlieb did a pretty good job of making HCI sound like
advocates of "hidden agendas."  Mr. Gottlieb illustrated his point by
saying something like:

      HCI always sounds reasonable in public.  But their court documents
      ALWAYS argue there is no right to private ownership of any
      firearms. They always act one way publicly and another in Court.

   Finally, KVI ended the hour with a rant against development of
public policy via manipulative tactics. The thrust of the rant was if
a group is going to argue something, put the idea(s) before the American
people and DEBATE the MERITS of the idea(s).

   A pretty good hour: HCI in a fluster; its sincerity and integrity in
question -- 'bout time the shoe was on the other foot ....
---
 * RM 1.2 01261 * Shoot a gun grabber today!
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Florida Mail Hub * REC18 * 813-321-0734 * 50:5813/22 (1:3603/20)

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