The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/f/finsten.laura/1996/finsten.1096


From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Oct  1 08:36:48 PDT 1996
Article: 45376 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: White MEN created everything (II) [long]
Date: 30 Sep 1996 19:03:48 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <52p5ik$qlg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <51qqgs$7tf@lex.zippo.com> <51v1n6$mp8@maud.ifi.uio.no> <51vmls$qb7@lex.zippo.com> <52368m$f2k@gyda.ifi.uio.no> <5244ae$g9l@lex.zippo.com> <5263ph$t9b@baugi.ifi.uio.no> <526np4$2vm@lex.zippo.com> <52bojk$hs6@gyda.ifi.uio.no> <52dahp$8g@lex.zippo.com>  <52ekc1$h0n@lex.zippo.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:jeff_brown-2609962016010001@news.zippo.com

jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

[...]

>Most of us outgrow this practice sometime in our teens. "Stone", it would
>seem, still considers this rationale to be a valid one.

Now Jeff, you don't know that "Mr. Stone" isn't still a teenager.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Oct  1 20:59:07 PDT 1996
Article: 70731 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.ibm.net.il!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Oroborous draws a bead on his foot...
Date: 1 Oct 1996 22:05:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <52s4k0$a4r@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <51nesm$hme@lex.zippo.com> <323FEE40.2747@ccnis.net> <51paa4$m1h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <51qr94$892@lex.zippo.com> <52ca7l$3ka@access5.digex.net> <52eivm$g29@lex.zippo.com> <52g83o$l3c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <52hf20$hfs@lex.zippo.com> <52ogfp$35f@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3250050E.3030@conterra.com> <52ram1$5df@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:52ram1$5df@lendl.cc.emory.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45482 alt.revisionism:70731 alt.politics.nationalism.white:31935

libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
>Bob Whitaker (bwhit@conterra.com) wrote:

>:         Did you know that every recognized authority in America, or for
>: that matter anybody who keeps his job, only writes things that agree
>: with Finsten?

>My God, Laura--I didn't realize how powerful you were.  Could you
>let me know if I write anything that doesn't agree with you, so I
>can change it?  

Yeah, I have to admit this is quite the promotion.  I mean, I thought
I was just junior management in ZOG, but now it seems I have the final
approval on all scientific research.  Cool!!!!!


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 07:42:44 PDT 1996
Article: 45659 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 3 Oct 1996 20:53:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <531950$498@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45659 alt.discrimination:54214

Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

>It is not a "human right" for you to come onto my property if I do not 
>want you there.

>It is not a "human right" to force me to hire you if I would prefer not 
>to do so.

>Why any honorable person of any race would want to intrude where he was 
>not wanted is a subject I will leave to your imagination.

But why limit this to "race", Mr. Strom?  Why should men or women intrude
where they are "not wanted"?  Why should folks of German descent intrude
where they are "not wanted"?  Why should the guy with the zits and the
goofy front teeth intrude where he is "not wanted"?  Like a classroom,
a pharmacy, a grocery store...  And "not wanted" according to whom?  One 
other person present?  Two?  It sounds more like a basis for high school
social cliques than for a modern society.

It seems that the criteria for exclusion are potentially infinite as are 
the contexts in which individuals might feel that such exclusionary choices 
are justifiable.  I've always thought, for example, that it would be cool
to live in a society where nobody was taller than 5'7", so I would always
be able to see the screen at movie theatres, no matter who sat in front of
me.

What you have not done is provide a credible or legitimate argument for
extending high school mentality cliquishness, along the lines
of "race", to society at large.  In other words, you are still talking
about "racism" as if it were nothing more than a "preference", as in
"gentlemen prefer blondes".

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 17:24:40 PDT 1996
Article: 71661 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Can't read (again!) (Was Re: Holocaust Specifications For "Proof")
Date: 4 Oct 1996 16:29:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <533e0u$heq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52c813$lm5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <52u97j$nle@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <52v8t8$1i2@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <53140m$jin@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <5323so$ild@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:5323so$ild@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
:::::::: 	No. "Ridiculous" is next door where Moran is posting.
:::::::It's "getting hit on the head" lessons in here. . .
::::::No it isn't!!
:::::you knew that 
::::No I didn't!!
:::did two!
::Did knot!!
:It's only pining.
It's nailed to the bloody perch, you fool!


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 17:48:21 PDT 1996
Article: 45712 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.datahighway,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.islam,alt.al
Subject: Re: Kill the lazy ass welfare loving dickhead NIGGERS!!!!! KKK will lynch you!!!
Date: 4 Oct 1996 16:20:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <533dfs$heq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52do36$2h1@monet.ICSI.Net> <52e52s$q45@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> <52ebtv$i8s@luc.ircam.fr> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:Dyqq06.Lys@iquest.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:127510 alt.politics.datahighway:18717 alt.discrimination:54252 alt.politics.white-power:45712 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32134 alt.skinheads:38805 soc.penpals:86469 alt.religion.christian:133376 alt.conspiracy:95563 sci.skeptic:167779 alt.religion.islam:28577

lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson) wrote:

>fingerhu@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut) wrote:

[...]

>>It's interesting how racists are either ashamed or afraid to express
>>their views -- it's always posted under either fake names and email
>>addresses or aliases.
[...]


>These are virtually ALWAYS posted by government employees who are
>trying to get the new FBI "controls" on Internet passed in Congress.

Gee, Dr. Thompson has just outed Kevin Strom, Bob Whitaker, p_stone,
Arthur LeBouthillier, Leslie Griswold and countless others as
employees of the US government!!!  Now isn't that exciting!

[...]

>Don't you find it AMAZING that whenever there is a gun-ban bill up in
>Congress, there was a mass shooting?

Statistically, I would guess that mass shootings are so common that
the alleged correlation is meaningless.  In other words, any time
would loosely "correlated with" a mass shooting.

>Then, when the "anti-terrorism" bill is up for vote (twice -- once
>during the World Trade Center bombing, now PROVEN to have been
>financed by the FBI and Israel[...]

I'm dying to hear your proof on that one.

>This isn't rocket scientist material.

You're not kidding.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 17:48:57 PDT 1996
Article: 95563 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.datahighway,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.islam,alt.al
Subject: Re: Kill the lazy ass welfare loving dickhead NIGGERS!!!!! KKK will lynch you!!!
Date: 4 Oct 1996 16:20:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <533dfs$heq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52do36$2h1@monet.ICSI.Net> <52e52s$q45@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> <52ebtv$i8s@luc.ircam.fr> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:Dyqq06.Lys@iquest.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:127510 alt.politics.datahighway:18717 alt.discrimination:54252 alt.politics.white-power:45712 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32134 alt.skinheads:38805 soc.penpals:86469 alt.religion.christian:133376 alt.conspiracy:95563 sci.skeptic:167779 alt.religion.islam:28577

lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson) wrote:

>fingerhu@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut) wrote:

[...]

>>It's interesting how racists are either ashamed or afraid to express
>>their views -- it's always posted under either fake names and email
>>addresses or aliases.
[...]


>These are virtually ALWAYS posted by government employees who are
>trying to get the new FBI "controls" on Internet passed in Congress.

Gee, Dr. Thompson has just outed Kevin Strom, Bob Whitaker, p_stone,
Arthur LeBouthillier, Leslie Griswold and countless others as
employees of the US government!!!  Now isn't that exciting!

[...]

>Don't you find it AMAZING that whenever there is a gun-ban bill up in
>Congress, there was a mass shooting?

Statistically, I would guess that mass shootings are so common that
the alleged correlation is meaningless.  In other words, any time
would loosely "correlated with" a mass shooting.

>Then, when the "anti-terrorism" bill is up for vote (twice -- once
>during the World Trade Center bombing, now PROVEN to have been
>financed by the FBI and Israel[...]

I'm dying to hear your proof on that one.

>This isn't rocket scientist material.

You're not kidding.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 17:50:49 PDT 1996
Article: 38805 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.datahighway,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.islam,alt.al
Subject: Re: Kill the lazy ass welfare loving dickhead NIGGERS!!!!! KKK will lynch you!!!
Date: 4 Oct 1996 16:20:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <533dfs$heq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52do36$2h1@monet.ICSI.Net> <52e52s$q45@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> <52ebtv$i8s@luc.ircam.fr> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:Dyqq06.Lys@iquest.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:127510 alt.politics.datahighway:18717 alt.discrimination:54252 alt.politics.white-power:45712 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32134 alt.skinheads:38805 soc.penpals:86469 alt.religion.christian:133376 alt.conspiracy:95563 sci.skeptic:167779 alt.religion.islam:28577

lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson) wrote:

>fingerhu@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut) wrote:

[...]

>>It's interesting how racists are either ashamed or afraid to express
>>their views -- it's always posted under either fake names and email
>>addresses or aliases.
[...]


>These are virtually ALWAYS posted by government employees who are
>trying to get the new FBI "controls" on Internet passed in Congress.

Gee, Dr. Thompson has just outed Kevin Strom, Bob Whitaker, p_stone,
Arthur LeBouthillier, Leslie Griswold and countless others as
employees of the US government!!!  Now isn't that exciting!

[...]

>Don't you find it AMAZING that whenever there is a gun-ban bill up in
>Congress, there was a mass shooting?

Statistically, I would guess that mass shootings are so common that
the alleged correlation is meaningless.  In other words, any time
would loosely "correlated with" a mass shooting.

>Then, when the "anti-terrorism" bill is up for vote (twice -- once
>during the World Trade Center bombing, now PROVEN to have been
>financed by the FBI and Israel[...]

I'm dying to hear your proof on that one.

>This isn't rocket scientist material.

You're not kidding.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 18:24:34 PDT 1996
Article: 54214 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 3 Oct 1996 20:53:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <531950$498@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45659 alt.discrimination:54214

Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

>It is not a "human right" for you to come onto my property if I do not 
>want you there.

>It is not a "human right" to force me to hire you if I would prefer not 
>to do so.

>Why any honorable person of any race would want to intrude where he was 
>not wanted is a subject I will leave to your imagination.

But why limit this to "race", Mr. Strom?  Why should men or women intrude
where they are "not wanted"?  Why should folks of German descent intrude
where they are "not wanted"?  Why should the guy with the zits and the
goofy front teeth intrude where he is "not wanted"?  Like a classroom,
a pharmacy, a grocery store...  And "not wanted" according to whom?  One 
other person present?  Two?  It sounds more like a basis for high school
social cliques than for a modern society.

It seems that the criteria for exclusion are potentially infinite as are 
the contexts in which individuals might feel that such exclusionary choices 
are justifiable.  I've always thought, for example, that it would be cool
to live in a society where nobody was taller than 5'7", so I would always
be able to see the screen at movie theatres, no matter who sat in front of
me.

What you have not done is provide a credible or legitimate argument for
extending high school mentality cliquishness, along the lines
of "race", to society at large.  In other words, you are still talking
about "racism" as if it were nothing more than a "preference", as in
"gentlemen prefer blondes".

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 18:24:35 PDT 1996
Article: 54252 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.datahighway,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.islam,alt.al
Subject: Re: Kill the lazy ass welfare loving dickhead NIGGERS!!!!! KKK will lynch you!!!
Date: 4 Oct 1996 16:20:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <533dfs$heq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52do36$2h1@monet.ICSI.Net> <52e52s$q45@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> <52ebtv$i8s@luc.ircam.fr> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:Dyqq06.Lys@iquest.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:127510 alt.politics.datahighway:18717 alt.discrimination:54252 alt.politics.white-power:45712 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32134 alt.skinheads:38805 soc.penpals:86469 alt.religion.christian:133376 alt.conspiracy:95563 sci.skeptic:167779 alt.religion.islam:28577

lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson) wrote:

>fingerhu@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut) wrote:

[...]

>>It's interesting how racists are either ashamed or afraid to express
>>their views -- it's always posted under either fake names and email
>>addresses or aliases.
[...]


>These are virtually ALWAYS posted by government employees who are
>trying to get the new FBI "controls" on Internet passed in Congress.

Gee, Dr. Thompson has just outed Kevin Strom, Bob Whitaker, p_stone,
Arthur LeBouthillier, Leslie Griswold and countless others as
employees of the US government!!!  Now isn't that exciting!

[...]

>Don't you find it AMAZING that whenever there is a gun-ban bill up in
>Congress, there was a mass shooting?

Statistically, I would guess that mass shootings are so common that
the alleged correlation is meaningless.  In other words, any time
would loosely "correlated with" a mass shooting.

>Then, when the "anti-terrorism" bill is up for vote (twice -- once
>during the World Trade Center bombing, now PROVEN to have been
>financed by the FBI and Israel[...]

I'm dying to hear your proof on that one.

>This isn't rocket scientist material.

You're not kidding.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 18:24:36 PDT 1996
Article: 54266 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Am I a racist?
Date: 4 Oct 1996 18:44:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <533lu2$q2c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <01bba819$1fcb8160$d82ab7c7@toolman5> <3249ED68.6AC9@ix.netcom.com>  <324C964C.5F66@here.sol> <52jsae$c2t@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3251D698.24CB@conterra.com> <52udhl$qek@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3252E9A6.3E19@conterra.com> <530bt6$nef@krypto.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:530bt6$nef@krypto.zippo.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45727 alt.discrimination:54266

cryofan@brokersys.com (Randy) wrote:

[...]

>>> Tell me, Mr. Whitaker.  What was the "orthodoxy" of the late 19th
>>> century and the pre-World War II decades of this century?  Or was
>>> that era substantially different from the contemporary one - just
>>> a halcyon time of scientific truths oozing out all over??

>o, they were just as screwed up as you are. We've basically replaced
>one group of fascists with another. 
[...]
>Now the Politically correct fascists are in charge, and things are SO
>much better!

So that explains the dismal progress of science in the century and why
no one has been able to land on the moon, photograph Jupiter, figure out
the structure of DNA, develop antibiotics and insulin, break the sound
barrier, invent computers, or begin to map the human genome...
Thanks for clearing that up for me. 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct  4 18:29:17 PDT 1996
Article: 45727 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Am I a racist?
Date: 4 Oct 1996 18:44:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <533lu2$q2c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <01bba819$1fcb8160$d82ab7c7@toolman5> <3249ED68.6AC9@ix.netcom.com>  <324C964C.5F66@here.sol> <52jsae$c2t@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3251D698.24CB@conterra.com> <52udhl$qek@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3252E9A6.3E19@conterra.com> <530bt6$nef@krypto.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:530bt6$nef@krypto.zippo.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45727 alt.discrimination:54266

cryofan@brokersys.com (Randy) wrote:

[...]

>>> Tell me, Mr. Whitaker.  What was the "orthodoxy" of the late 19th
>>> century and the pre-World War II decades of this century?  Or was
>>> that era substantially different from the contemporary one - just
>>> a halcyon time of scientific truths oozing out all over??

>o, they were just as screwed up as you are. We've basically replaced
>one group of fascists with another. 
[...]
>Now the Politically correct fascists are in charge, and things are SO
>much better!

So that explains the dismal progress of science in the century and why
no one has been able to land on the moon, photograph Jupiter, figure out
the structure of DNA, develop antibiotics and insulin, break the sound
barrier, invent computers, or begin to map the human genome...
Thanks for clearing that up for me. 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Oct  5 09:52:48 PDT 1996
Article: 45728 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics,alt.politics.youth,alt.politics.usa,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Why Isn't Cross Burning a Civil Right?
Date: 4 Oct 1996 19:34:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <533osj$ni@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <531h2i$l1b@btc1.up.net> <532fj2$j17@hiisi.inet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:532fj2$j17@hiisi.inet.fi
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45728 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32143 alt.politics.usa.constitution:94389 alt.politics.correct:142165

alan.moreira@valmet.com wrote:


>Other than a waste of good timber, what is the point of burning a cross 
>anyways? What's the symbolism there? From a Christian standpoint, I'd 
>find the practice blasphemy (not that I'm religious or anything). I don't 
>see how it's logically connected to racial purity. What do these KKK 
>wackos have in mind when they do it? Can some of you rednecks care to 
>enlighten us ?
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not literally, of course!!!


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Oct  5 11:33:01 PDT 1996
Article: 127510 of soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.datahighway,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.islam,alt.al
Subject: Re: Kill the lazy ass welfare loving dickhead NIGGERS!!!!! KKK will lynch you!!!
Date: 4 Oct 1996 16:20:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <533dfs$heq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52do36$2h1@monet.ICSI.Net> <52e52s$q45@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> <52ebtv$i8s@luc.ircam.fr> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:Dyqq06.Lys@iquest.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:127510 alt.politics.datahighway:18717 alt.discrimination:54252 alt.politics.white-power:45712 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32134 alt.skinheads:38805 soc.penpals:86469 alt.religion.christian:133376 alt.conspiracy:95563 sci.skeptic:167779 alt.religion.islam:28577

lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson) wrote:

>fingerhu@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut) wrote:

[...]

>>It's interesting how racists are either ashamed or afraid to express
>>their views -- it's always posted under either fake names and email
>>addresses or aliases.
[...]


>These are virtually ALWAYS posted by government employees who are
>trying to get the new FBI "controls" on Internet passed in Congress.

Gee, Dr. Thompson has just outed Kevin Strom, Bob Whitaker, p_stone,
Arthur LeBouthillier, Leslie Griswold and countless others as
employees of the US government!!!  Now isn't that exciting!

[...]

>Don't you find it AMAZING that whenever there is a gun-ban bill up in
>Congress, there was a mass shooting?

Statistically, I would guess that mass shootings are so common that
the alleged correlation is meaningless.  In other words, any time
would loosely "correlated with" a mass shooting.

>Then, when the "anti-terrorism" bill is up for vote (twice -- once
>during the World Trade Center bombing, now PROVEN to have been
>financed by the FBI and Israel[...]

I'm dying to hear your proof on that one.

>This isn't rocket scientist material.

You're not kidding.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Oct  7 14:18:26 PDT 1996
Article: 72386 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Swiss II
Date: 7 Oct 1996 18:46:06 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <53bj5e$ole@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324955c0.7272015@news.pacificnet.net><324955c0.7272015@news.pacificnet.net> <3254f5a7.388814@199.0.216.204> <536tn7$2rfq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><324955c0.7272015@news.pacificnet.net><324955c0.7272015@news.pacificnet.net> <3254f5a7.388814@199.0.216.204> <536tn7$2rfq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <32573972.3840@nbnet.nb.ca> <539qce$145m@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <32587B81.6453@nbnet.nb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:32587B81.6453@nbnet.nb.ca

Keith Morrison  wrote:
>Gord McFee wrote:

>> It was you!!  I should have known that ZOG East would attempt to get its
>> revenge.  You're not in league with one of those FBs, are you?

>They don't talk to me anymore.  Something about that chromasome I have that
>they complain about.

Nobody's complaining about your chromosomes, guys.  But tell me honestly,
could any of *you* look that good in a t-shirt??????

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Oct  8 12:49:27 PDT 1996
Article: 54416 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 8 Oct 1996 14:44:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 154
Message-ID: <53dpcr$9p5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com> <531950$498@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3254FBB0.6CD7@ix.netcom.com> <32555D4F.4B99@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <536f29$hml@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32587EC7.778B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53ao3k$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325992D0.F70@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325992D0.F70@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45989 alt.discrimination:54416

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:

>> >     Are you really that dense, or is that a rhetorical technique?
 
>> >     What he said was that the individual had the right to choose his
>> >associations.
 
>> Perhaps the lack of understanding is yours, Ms. Paldhan.  "Association"
>> is a two-way street.  Your "right" to whimsically limit your "associations",
>> in everything from schools to doctors' waiting rooms to street corner bus
>> stops", does affect other folks.  Or hadn't you noticed that?  If you are
>> entitled to exercise this, it means that all those people with whom you
>> choose not to "associate" are denied access to all the public places you
>> will populate.  In other words, others' freedom, not just of "association"
>> but also of movement and access to public places, is denied.

>     I missed the start of this thread, but I did read what he wrote, and 
>he said that the individual has the right of freedom of association.  So 
>far as I know, that means that the individual has the right to choose his 
>friends, his teammembers, his dentist and so on.  It does not imply 
>access to busses and buildings, since I am not in association with 
>passing strangers.  If it did include ANY contact, that would be by a 
>community choice to have only its original populace and none other.  In 
>which case, I'm in agreement.

Well Mr. Strom did indeed imply that it should imply access to businesses
which, depending upon the system, would likely include pharmacies,
physicians' and dentists' offices.  And it appears that Mr. Strom would
like to extend this to schools, as well.  It does, after all, depend on
exactly how one choses to define what is "public" and what is "private".
Housing developments are another example in which there is considerable
room for ambiguity.  Clearly houses are private.  Are the streets that
run between them public or private?  I get the clear impression that
Mr. Strom would prefer to consider them private.
 
>> So you do not believe that preservation of your right to life means that
>> you and others in your society must give up your "right to kill" except
>> under exceptional circumstances?  How can there be any social order in
>> such anarchistic chaos?
>
>     Yep, stupidity it is.  What "right to kill"?  NO society has had an 
>unbridled license to kill, and no one not drooling and cackling ever 

Well, in fact, this is a philosophical debate.  You seem to be arguing
that there are *no* inherent rights, and that in fact all rights are
both defined and conferred by society.  Once again, though, I point out
that you are confusing "community" with "society".  If the "community"
wishes to restrict the rights of some individuals (freedom of association
is a good example), but have its own rights (again freedom of association
is a good example) protected by the society at large, then there is a
major problem.  If "society" is to confer and defend the right to freedom
of association, then freedom of association cannot be differently 
defined by each community, however it choses to constitute itself.

[...]

>> Perhaps you haven't had to notice that education is
>> extremely expensive

>     Most of mine came out of public libraries and bookstores.  
>One immigrant grandfather taught himself English from the radio and the 
>newspaper.  But then, he had the capacity; and he didn't have the 
>character to whine for someone to do it for him.

I was thinking of public and high school, Ms. Paldhan.

>> I trust that your contempt extends to the "incompetent" "White" folks,
>> too

>     Yes, it does.

>> Arthur Jensen was never "silenced".  His books and articles are published.

>     Death threats, demands for his expulsion from the university, and no 
>copies in print, in the places I've checked, of "The Inheritance of 
>Creative Intelligence", all add to the fear of scum being unable to push 
>their One World Socialist agenda and using pawns to agitate for them; not 
>mere indulgent laughter and free publication.

There is no such thing as "free publication".  There are more books out
of print than in.  When publishers can no longer make money from a book
and the current printed stock is sold out, the book goes out of print.
Happens all the time.

>     I've noticed that all of the hate rhetoric from the socialists is 
>always from those who've never actually read a book, just been told what 
>it was, as in "The Bell Curve", the modern successor to Jensen's book.  
>(Because the statistics and the conditions giving rise to them haven't 
>changed, no matter how much wasted money and unConstitutional preference 
>has been practiced to try.)

This sounds like an effort to change the direction of the discussion.
It is unfortunate that you weren't following the threads discussing TBC
on alt.discrimination last winter and spring, Ms. Paldhan.  There was
quite lively debate, by people who had indeed read the book.  There are
also a lot of critical reviews of the book by people who have read it.
Your suggestion that those who are critical of TBC are all ignorant of its
content is unfounded.
 
>> >     Call me a Social Darwinist; you'll be right.
 
>> And a racist.  Since you seem to apply your Darwinian ideas not on the
>> basis of individual merit and achievement but on the basis of race,
>> irrespective of achievement.  

>     Nowhere did I say that; only that people have a right not to be 
>robbed of what they earn.  You're right 'though, that it is white people 
>who are the cash cows for the socialists to milk.

I didn't say that you had *said* that you apply your Darwinian ideas on
the basis of race, rather than on the basis of individual merit and
achievement.  I inferred it from what you have written.  Your interest
in defining "association" strictly in terms of "racial affiliation",
so I assume from this that that is the most significant aspect of
people, rather than what they say, think, or do.

>     Thomas Jefferson:  "We must dream of an aristocracy of achievement, 
>arising from a democracy of opportunity."  Right!

You don't believe that there should be a democracy of opportunity?

>     As for being a racist, it is instructive to note that consciousness 
>of race was a dirty word until the non-whites wanted to band together on 
>the basis of race; THEN the socialists had to invent an acceptable word, 
>and devised "racialist".  All of which meant that a black student union 
>was racially helpful to the oppressed, but a white student union would be 
>a racist effort of oppressive elites; a brown student group based on 
>contempt for the laws and borders of the country harboring them (Mecha) 
>was a good thing, but a student heritage association based on the Western 
>histories and cultures would be an exclusionary effort of racists; and so 
>on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

This is an unfortunate bit of American double-speak, since the word 
"racialist" has had the same meaning as the word "racist" in English
English (across the pond) for a long, long time.

Organisations like African-American students clubs emerged at a time when
African Americans were a tiny minority of the students on campus, in an
environment that was pretty hostile to their presence.  "Whites" have never
had a comparable situation in America, in my honest opinion.  There has
never been a problem, has there, with things like German-American associations,
Scandinavian-American associations and clubs, Scottish or Irish, or Celtic?
We have those here. 

>     Whites, Americans, and the productive middle class all are tired of 
>that situation, and it will be changed.

I think you mean "American Whites", do you not? 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Oct  8 13:05:54 PDT 1996
Article: 45989 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 8 Oct 1996 14:44:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 154
Message-ID: <53dpcr$9p5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com> <531950$498@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3254FBB0.6CD7@ix.netcom.com> <32555D4F.4B99@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <536f29$hml@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32587EC7.778B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53ao3k$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325992D0.F70@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325992D0.F70@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45989 alt.discrimination:54416

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:

>> >     Are you really that dense, or is that a rhetorical technique?
 
>> >     What he said was that the individual had the right to choose his
>> >associations.
 
>> Perhaps the lack of understanding is yours, Ms. Paldhan.  "Association"
>> is a two-way street.  Your "right" to whimsically limit your "associations",
>> in everything from schools to doctors' waiting rooms to street corner bus
>> stops", does affect other folks.  Or hadn't you noticed that?  If you are
>> entitled to exercise this, it means that all those people with whom you
>> choose not to "associate" are denied access to all the public places you
>> will populate.  In other words, others' freedom, not just of "association"
>> but also of movement and access to public places, is denied.

>     I missed the start of this thread, but I did read what he wrote, and 
>he said that the individual has the right of freedom of association.  So 
>far as I know, that means that the individual has the right to choose his 
>friends, his teammembers, his dentist and so on.  It does not imply 
>access to busses and buildings, since I am not in association with 
>passing strangers.  If it did include ANY contact, that would be by a 
>community choice to have only its original populace and none other.  In 
>which case, I'm in agreement.

Well Mr. Strom did indeed imply that it should imply access to businesses
which, depending upon the system, would likely include pharmacies,
physicians' and dentists' offices.  And it appears that Mr. Strom would
like to extend this to schools, as well.  It does, after all, depend on
exactly how one choses to define what is "public" and what is "private".
Housing developments are another example in which there is considerable
room for ambiguity.  Clearly houses are private.  Are the streets that
run between them public or private?  I get the clear impression that
Mr. Strom would prefer to consider them private.
 
>> So you do not believe that preservation of your right to life means that
>> you and others in your society must give up your "right to kill" except
>> under exceptional circumstances?  How can there be any social order in
>> such anarchistic chaos?
>
>     Yep, stupidity it is.  What "right to kill"?  NO society has had an 
>unbridled license to kill, and no one not drooling and cackling ever 

Well, in fact, this is a philosophical debate.  You seem to be arguing
that there are *no* inherent rights, and that in fact all rights are
both defined and conferred by society.  Once again, though, I point out
that you are confusing "community" with "society".  If the "community"
wishes to restrict the rights of some individuals (freedom of association
is a good example), but have its own rights (again freedom of association
is a good example) protected by the society at large, then there is a
major problem.  If "society" is to confer and defend the right to freedom
of association, then freedom of association cannot be differently 
defined by each community, however it choses to constitute itself.

[...]

>> Perhaps you haven't had to notice that education is
>> extremely expensive

>     Most of mine came out of public libraries and bookstores.  
>One immigrant grandfather taught himself English from the radio and the 
>newspaper.  But then, he had the capacity; and he didn't have the 
>character to whine for someone to do it for him.

I was thinking of public and high school, Ms. Paldhan.

>> I trust that your contempt extends to the "incompetent" "White" folks,
>> too

>     Yes, it does.

>> Arthur Jensen was never "silenced".  His books and articles are published.

>     Death threats, demands for his expulsion from the university, and no 
>copies in print, in the places I've checked, of "The Inheritance of 
>Creative Intelligence", all add to the fear of scum being unable to push 
>their One World Socialist agenda and using pawns to agitate for them; not 
>mere indulgent laughter and free publication.

There is no such thing as "free publication".  There are more books out
of print than in.  When publishers can no longer make money from a book
and the current printed stock is sold out, the book goes out of print.
Happens all the time.

>     I've noticed that all of the hate rhetoric from the socialists is 
>always from those who've never actually read a book, just been told what 
>it was, as in "The Bell Curve", the modern successor to Jensen's book.  
>(Because the statistics and the conditions giving rise to them haven't 
>changed, no matter how much wasted money and unConstitutional preference 
>has been practiced to try.)

This sounds like an effort to change the direction of the discussion.
It is unfortunate that you weren't following the threads discussing TBC
on alt.discrimination last winter and spring, Ms. Paldhan.  There was
quite lively debate, by people who had indeed read the book.  There are
also a lot of critical reviews of the book by people who have read it.
Your suggestion that those who are critical of TBC are all ignorant of its
content is unfounded.
 
>> >     Call me a Social Darwinist; you'll be right.
 
>> And a racist.  Since you seem to apply your Darwinian ideas not on the
>> basis of individual merit and achievement but on the basis of race,
>> irrespective of achievement.  

>     Nowhere did I say that; only that people have a right not to be 
>robbed of what they earn.  You're right 'though, that it is white people 
>who are the cash cows for the socialists to milk.

I didn't say that you had *said* that you apply your Darwinian ideas on
the basis of race, rather than on the basis of individual merit and
achievement.  I inferred it from what you have written.  Your interest
in defining "association" strictly in terms of "racial affiliation",
so I assume from this that that is the most significant aspect of
people, rather than what they say, think, or do.

>     Thomas Jefferson:  "We must dream of an aristocracy of achievement, 
>arising from a democracy of opportunity."  Right!

You don't believe that there should be a democracy of opportunity?

>     As for being a racist, it is instructive to note that consciousness 
>of race was a dirty word until the non-whites wanted to band together on 
>the basis of race; THEN the socialists had to invent an acceptable word, 
>and devised "racialist".  All of which meant that a black student union 
>was racially helpful to the oppressed, but a white student union would be 
>a racist effort of oppressive elites; a brown student group based on 
>contempt for the laws and borders of the country harboring them (Mecha) 
>was a good thing, but a student heritage association based on the Western 
>histories and cultures would be an exclusionary effort of racists; and so 
>on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

This is an unfortunate bit of American double-speak, since the word 
"racialist" has had the same meaning as the word "racist" in English
English (across the pond) for a long, long time.

Organisations like African-American students clubs emerged at a time when
African Americans were a tiny minority of the students on campus, in an
environment that was pretty hostile to their presence.  "Whites" have never
had a comparable situation in America, in my honest opinion.  There has
never been a problem, has there, with things like German-American associations,
Scandinavian-American associations and clubs, Scottish or Irish, or Celtic?
We have those here. 

>     Whites, Americans, and the productive middle class all are tired of 
>that situation, and it will be changed.

I think you mean "American Whites", do you not? 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 10 18:22:50 PDT 1996
Article: 46180 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:39:39 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <53iuar$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com> <52uov3$ghl@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3255BC52.CAE@ix.netcom.com> <32587805.6AD8@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53ao9h$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32599338.72C@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53df1d$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325AB6C3.7A65@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325AB6C3.7A65@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46180 alt.discrimination:54530

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:


[...]

>     And when does "diversity" hit the individual's choice in marriage 
>and family?  Everything else is already covered, why not? 

It sounds rather like you've read and taken seriously "The Turner
Diaries", Ms. Paldhan.  What utter nonsense.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 10 18:22:52 PDT 1996
Article: 46187 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Effigies and "Brown"
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:44:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <53iuka$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52svud$1bf@lex.zippo.com> <52udlp$qek@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53139p$94s@lex.zippo.com> <533m36$q2c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <534ukg$rk8@lex.zippo.com> <53aoq4$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53bggr$3nd@lex.zippo.com> <53dj2c$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53fglt$muj@lex.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:53fglt$muj@lex.zippo.com

Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <53dj2c$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...

[...]

>>>An earlier sentence of yours "No this..." had correct syntax, but you'll
>>>note the semantics were wrong once more.

>>Try reading the sentence without the "I", which was inadvertently left in
>>when I decided mid-sentence to write it differently.  Perhaps then you
>>can get the meaning, and drop this silly flame.

>I had no problem deducing that "I" was incorrect, instead I was illustrating
>your poor semantic skills.  Don't expect to me to stand idly by while you
>make all sorts of allegations, "Finsten."  I will use your "weapons" against
>you.

No, by your own admission you were deliberately misreading a sentence which
you knew was correct but contained a typo.  My only expectation is that you
will continue to spew your nonsense and drivel, providing hours of amusement
and entertainment pleasure for the readers of this newsgroup.  And I'm sure
you won't disappoint, "Mr. Stone".


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 10 19:50:42 PDT 1996
Article: 54530 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:39:39 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <53iuar$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com> <52uov3$ghl@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3255BC52.CAE@ix.netcom.com> <32587805.6AD8@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53ao9h$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32599338.72C@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53df1d$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325AB6C3.7A65@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325AB6C3.7A65@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46180 alt.discrimination:54530

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:


[...]

>     And when does "diversity" hit the individual's choice in marriage 
>and family?  Everything else is already covered, why not? 

It sounds rather like you've read and taken seriously "The Turner
Diaries", Ms. Paldhan.  What utter nonsense.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct 11 09:26:35 PDT 1996
Article: 46216 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Ourobouros' sample definition of the White race
Date: 10 Oct 1996 19:35:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 198
Message-ID: <53jj5f$sus@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <536kb7$ici@gyda.ifi.uio.no> <536oug$lfp@lex.zippo.com> <53b06t$3s7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53ckuj$29g@lex.zippo.com> <53dh9m$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53ffrh$m6j@lex.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:53ffrh$m6j@lex.zippo.com

Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <53dh9m$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...

[...]

>>>You have a short memory.  I have stated in the past that I have friends of
>>>other races.  I have never claimed there aren't "good" Polynesians (good is 
>>>this case meaning helpful and having a sense of duty towards society).
>>>I have long campaigned that they (other races) have a completely different
>>>set of standards when it comes to law, and what right do we have on 
>>>imposing our standards on them.  For example, Polynesians (unless White
>>>influenced) have no problem with men committing rape.  <-- This I gave a
>>>quote for from B. Danielsson, "Love in the South Seas."

>>Shall I pull up the post in which you *complained* about different standards
>>being applied to Maori and "White" people in New Zealand, "Mr. Stone"?

>That would only confirm the above.

What you said above, verbatim, is:

   "I have long campaigned that they (other races) have a completely different
   set of standards when it comes to law, and what right do we have on 
   imposing our standards on them."

Would you please explain to me what this sentence means?  I always thought
that to campaign meant to champion or promote.  Apparently you understand
something differently.    

>>Shall I pull up the post in which I pointed out to you that Danielsson's
>>"Love and the South Seas" is intended to be a re-construction of practices
>>in the pre-contact era (i.e., more than two *centuries* ago)?

>And?  Do you really think they have changed?  I once (re)posted a newspaper
>clipping (from the NZ Herald) concerning a sodomy/rape charge by a Samoan
>on a male motorist.  The article stated that this kind of behaviour was
>permissible in Western Samoa, because of some "evil spirit" that inhabits
>various men.

Well, first of all, that little book described a great deal of variation
in different parts of Polynesia, as I recall.  So are *you* now claiming,
despite this, that they are "all the same"?  That what might be acceptable
in Western Samoa would be acceptable in any Polynesian community?  

If there had been no change, why would Danielsson have had to explain at
the beginning of this book that he was *not* describing present practices
but instead was presenting a historical reconstruction of practices in
pre-European times?

[...]

>>>On the same grounds why should we be subjected to their code of conduct?

>>Who is subjecting you to their "code of conduct"?

>So you are saying that tagging around my area by Polynesians is not been
>subject to their code of conduct?

Well since I have no idea what you mean by "tagging", I can't even begin to
respond to this question.

[...]

>>>Everybody is prejudiced, "Finsten", it is folly for me to deny otherwise.
>>>You have no right to judge me, as you also fall into the prejudiced
>>>category, especially since you are biased against me.  Unlike anti-racists/
>>>liberals, I don't bother denying it.

>>I am not "biased" against you, "Mr. Stone".  I have formed some opinions
>>regarding your intellectual and general honesty and various other things
>>based on what you post.  Just because the evidence has not led to a
>>favourable impression does not make me *biased*.

>ROFL.

I thought you might find that humourous.  Tell me something, "Mr. Stone".
If you think that all the "liberals" are biased against the "racists", how
do you think we "liberals" know which posters are "racists" and which are
not?    

[...]
 
>>>the Mesoamerican civilisations.  Since Whites have paid so great a
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>influence on the civilisations in the Old World, it seems logical that
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>they also influenced the civilisations in the New World, pre-Columbus. 

>>You have to believe this, don't you, or you have nothing.  Your "Whiteness"
>>is all you've got.  If "Whites" were so very very civilised and advanced,
>>culturally, "Mr. Stone", why was there no writing in Europe north of the
>>Mediterranean until the Roman invasion?  

>So what is Ogam and Runic script, imagination?  Do you honestly think I
>have restricted Whites to Northern Europe?

Well you do whenever you talk about genes.  Why the inconsistency, "Mr.
Stone"?

>>Why were there no states with
>>palatial residences and elaborate masonry public buildings north of the
>>Mediterranean until after the Romans?  Why no cities?  Hmmmmm, "Mr. Stone"?

>I notice you limit the stonemasonry to palatial residences and elaborate
>masonry public buildings.

>The ancient Northern Europeans, an extremely brief synopsis.

>The Celts:  A rural based people who where extremely adept at metalworking.
>They had chariots, which indicates the need for roads.  They were well

So what?  The Incas had an astonishing road system.  No chariots, either,
but they still built magnificent roads and bridges.

>known for standing stones and placing megalithic boulders around the
>place.  The had a well developed religious centre based upon the Druids,

Whoopee.  Anybody can roll a boulder around.  That doesn't take any skill.

>which various sources say needed twenty years of learning at "Universities."
>There political system was tribal, and more often than not matriachal
>(the Scoti being an exception).  By matriachal I mean "kingship" was passed
>on through the daughters (from Tacitus).  They employed Ogam or finger
>script as a written and silent language which is still partially in use --
>review a heavy metal concert and watch how various meatheads in the crowd
>hold (ignorantly) their hands.

That isn't record keeping, "Mr. Stone".

>The Germans:  A rural based people who where adept at metalworking (not as
>good a craftsman as the Celts at the same period.  Our knowledge of their
>religion is basically patchy and detail is more often than not comes from
>Snorri (Icelandic 14th century).  They had the same matriachal system as
>the Celts (also from Tacitus).  A piece of evidence for Runic script is
>the rare and scanty Gothic Bible written by Ufilas (sp?).

Not very impressive.

>Both gave the Romans an incredibly hard run for their money.  Both lived
>in adverse environments, which until recently conquered failed to support
>a large population.

And the Inka gave the Spanish colonials a run for their money.  So what?
Ah, the old "adverse environment", thing.  You don't think that the tropical
jungles of Central America, the droughty and frosty Valley of Mexico, and
the extremely high altitudes and deserts of the Andean region are 
"adverse environments"?  

>Because of the low population, there was little need for cities.

Low populations are generally regarded as a sign of poor adaptation.  
>
>>After all, there were people in that part of Europe, anatomically modern 
>>humans, by at least 35,000 years ago.  Why did it take them so long to get 
>>with the programme, when things were just hopping in the Middle East, China,
>>and yes, across the Atlantic in South America and Mesoamerica?  Were "Whites"
>>the travelling cultural salesmen of the world, just too busy carrying their
>>brilliant developments elsewhere to actually create any evidence of them
>>in their "homeland"?

>You assume I believe the Teutons and the Celts were the only White people
>don't you?

Nope, although you do seem to talk that way when it comes to genes.  However,
all the waffling in the world doesn't alter the fact that Europe north of
the Mediterranean was by just about any standard, including your own, far
behind other parts of the world until very recently in history.  One might
even describe it as "backward".  I sure wish you would deal with that instead
of talking about "Ogam" and druids and metalworking.  

>>>>Uh no, "Mr. Stone", you looked like an idiot, to quote Mr. Lund, because
>>>>you didn't even endeavor to respond to the valid criticisms raised.  In fact
>>>>you seem to have run from that discussion entirely.

>>>What rot.  I pointed out that you fabricated me saying that C-S uses
>>>a synonym of White in his book "History and Geography of Human Genes."
>>>Something I denied and the topic quickly lost its coherency after that.
>>>I did not run because there was nothing to run from.

>>I did *no* *such* *thing*.  I did not say that you said that Cavalli-
>>Sforza uses a synonym for "White" in "The History and Geography of 
>>Human Genes".  Are you both a liar *and* functionally illiterate,
>>"Mr. Stone"?  Do you really not understand the implications of what
>>you yourself write?

>ROFL.  Please review as many times as you like the specially marked file
>at McVay's site.

No, you provide the proof that I said this.  You either don't know what
the word "synonym" means or you are lying through your teeth.  I always
leave open the possibility that you are an idiot rather than a liar.  I
should give more serious thought to the idea that you are *both*.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct 11 09:26:36 PDT 1996
Article: 46235 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 11 Oct 1996 11:37:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 218
Message-ID: <53lbgv$1dr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com> <531950$498@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3254FBB0.6CD7@ix.netcom.com> <32555D4F.4B99@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <536f29$hml@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32587EC7.778B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53ao3k$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325992D0.F70@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53dpcr$9p5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325ABC0E.2CA4@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53g9is$7fg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325C1E26.7388@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53iqj3$3js@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325D8E16.3157@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325D8E16.3157@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46235 alt.discrimination:54554

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:

>>You don't seem to want to talk about the specific implications
>> of the argument you are putting forward.  The question that you haven't addressed
>> is whose right of freedom of association has precedence, and why.

>     The persons in residence in the original community have the right, 
>which anyone with any ability to comprehend the written word has already 
>seen, long since.  I spell it out for you.

Well keep spelling, Ms. Paldhan.  *Why* should those individuals' right to
freedom of association have precedence over another's?  The right pertains
equally to every individual, does it not?  And yet you are arguing that it
pertains "more equally" to some than others.  And you seem not to be talking
about the rights of individuals, but in fact about the rights of a "community".
What happens when the rights of the individual and the rights of the "community"
come into conflict?

>> have the right to refuse to do business with whomever they wish not to
>> do business with.  You now seem to saying that publishing is not the same
>> as any other business, and that publishers should have *not* have the
>> freedom of association that you so cherish.  Your position on this highly
>> inconsistent.

>     No, you are just consistently incompetent.
>     Publishing can be done by the author.  I never said that anyone 
>ought to be forced into anything; I keep saying the opposite.  You keep 
>seeing the world through "somebody else has to do it" goggles.

No, Ms. Paldhan, I merely pointed out the inconsistency between your
insistence on rights to "free association" and your complaint that no publishers
seemed interested in reissuing Arthur Jensen's books.  

[...]

>> Do I have it right on the voucher system or not?  Are people allowed to
>> use these vouchers for private education?

>     Any education they please.  It is supposed to be a return of their 
>tax monies to them to spend by their choice.
>     Best would be no publicly funded schools at all, just the free 
>market.

This is an argument that I've heard, and always have found rather puzzling.
I've never seen anyone argue that the "free market" should decide military
matters, or competition in a free market would produce the best decision-
making about border control.  The "free market" seems actually to be
detrimental, at least from the perspective of availability of text books
for public schools.  I understand that Texas has a virtual monopoly, so
content over control and scope is largely in the hands of a very small
number of people.  That doesn't sound very "free" to me.  

> > By taking money out of public education, it robs everyone who relies on 
>> the public education system,

>     The only "rights" we have are thoswe to "Life, liberty, and the 
>pursuit of happiness"; that does not include the right to rob others to 
>pay for that pursuit.  
>     Public education is a relatively recent innovation, and a spawn of 
>statism, not freedom.
>     It is a court-decreed license, not a "right".

But not everybody has the "liberty" to pay for expensive private education,
Ms. Paldhan.  That means that not everybody has the same opportunity to
become well-educated, and that access is determined not by ability and
motivation but by individual wealth.  How is this consistent with "liberty"
for all?

>> I'm really pleased to be engaging in rational discussion

>     You're the only one who thinks your reiteration of whines 
>constitutes an argument, far less a rational one.

I guess what constitutes a whine depends very much on perspective.  Your
penchant for ad hominem and insult, together with your failure to respond
to the abstract issues I've raised, suggests something less than rational
argument on your part, to me.  Amazing, isn't it.

>> identify as a community.  But now you seem to saying that its a bunch of
>> stuff, the infrastructure that is built with tax dollars.

>     No moron, the community is the people, the property of the people, 
>and the land area on which they live.  You kept harping on streets.

Perhaps some of the confusion arises because Mr. Strom wants entire 
territories, which of course would include streets and parks, turned over
to "Whites" only.

>     Tax dollars come from the community and are spent in the community, 
>so it is the affair of the community; providing the decision, 
>collection, and expenditure are in the hands of the community, directly, 
>which is where they belong and originally were.

Ah, perhaps your taxation works quite differently in the US.  Here, taxes
are collected at the level of municipality, not neighbourhoods or communities
within cities.  And since the vast majority of people use public services, work 
in businesses and so on outside their neighbourhoods, taxes are used for the
maintenance of the city as a whole.  Makes sense to me.  

>     You seem to be trying to superimpose a segregationist settlement on 
>a currently existing city, displacing non-qualified residents.

I'm certainly not trying to do that.  Kevin Strom is, though.

>     I am talking about any standing community which exists as such, and 
>any future community established as such.

Are "communities" legally constituted entities with the right to collect
taxes, Ms. Paldham?  This may be where part of the confusion arises.  Or
are you suggesting that they should be?
     
[...]

> >     (You actually got a point!??!  Will wonders never cease!)

>> ad hominem argument

>     Why not be honest, when your intent is merely propaganda?

And how do you divine that, Ms. Paldham?

[...]

>> Does society have an obligation to protect the individual rights of all 

>     You just keep making whines for justification of theft into 
>"rights", and there is NO obligation to support efforts to rob the 
>productive for the sake of the unproductive.  Starve.

You seem a little bit cranky.  My question is in fact a central question in
the philosophy of rights, Ms. Paldham, and one which political philosophers
and others have contemplated and debated for centuries.  You seem to have
no problem "whining" about being denied your rights, yet you think that any
abstract question about whose rights have precedence when individuals' rights
come into conflict, or about who or what institution is obligated to 
protect and guarantee rights, is a "whine".  I think you have a problem with
consistency.

>> Then let me state my point a little more directly.  To call the US
>> government socialist shows that you don't know what socialism is

>     Socialism is the theory that committees ought to run things, 
>because individuals are not able to do so.  Why?  Because the productive 
>will expect to be able to decide how the produce of their effort and 
>insight will be spent, and that may not suit the whines of the 
>unproductive.  Therefore, those who can't even be effective in their own 
>lives ought to be established as a dictatorship to run the whole world, 
>"redistributing the wealth".  They will instantly achieve a degree of 
>Perfect Sainthood not achieved in any congregation by any 
>preacher,including Christ and the Buddha, and will justly allow each 
>person -make that unit- to produce to capacity and then to receive 
>according to what the committees think is needed, which will, of course, 
>be exactly the case. 
>      To get to this halcyon day, when the rule is "from each according 
>to his ability, to each according to his need", anything goes, since 
>"the ends justify the means".
>     Socialism is a theory suited to hive and heaps, not to humans, and 
>merely provides a comfortable framework for theft.

Like I said, you don't know what socialism is.

>> I suppose you think that your country would have been better off in the
>> 1930s if hundreds of thousands had been left to starve during the Depression?

>     You mean the one engineered by the anti-capitalists, who follow the 
>dictum that the "only way to kill capitalism is by taxes, taxes, and 
>more taxes"?

Are you saying that the Great Depression was caused by high taxes?

>     As for going hungry, the only food provided was at soup kitchens 
>run by communities.  Work corps required earning the pay; they were not 
>the total handout to the shiftless so often seen today.

I know the basics of the US government programmes during the 30s to create
work and fend off mass starvation, Ms. Paldham.

>     As for FDR, I consider him and the other Yalta Pact Traitors to be 
>the worst thing which ever happened to this country.

I don't think that Winston Churchill or Joseph Stalin "happened to [your] 
country".  Had it not been for Hitler, of course, there never would have 
been a Yalta Pact.

>>  When the descendents of African Americans came to your country
>> they didn't have the opportunity to advance through hard work and achievement.
>> And after the abolition of slavery, those opportunities were still largely
>> denied to them, through discrimination.

>     Amazing how many of them made it anyway, and were admired for it 
>and emulated, until the socialist dictum that they were only Uncle Toms, 
>to be despised and castigated.

When did this "socialist dictum" decree that the very small percentage of
African Americans who managed, against incredible odds, to succeed decree
that those folks were "Uncle Toms", Ms. Paldham?

>     They got their start from the owners who risked ruin to teach 
>teenagers to read; another legacy the agitators advocated losing.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point, here?  What "agitators", and
what exactly did they "advocate losing"?

>     You haven't said one intelligent thing yet, just reiterated whines.

I'm shattered.

>     Let's agree to despise each other and leave it at that.  I don't 
>see that you're worth further time.

Don't expect me not to comment on what you write.  It is, of course, your
choice whether to respond.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Oct 11 12:35:30 PDT 1996
Article: 54554 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The Criminalization of Freedom of Association
Date: 11 Oct 1996 11:37:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 218
Message-ID: <53lbgv$1dr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <324A278A.1975@ix.netcom.com> <52f1ge$gqc@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <3252429F.5D0D@ix.netcom.com> <531950$498@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3254FBB0.6CD7@ix.netcom.com> <32555D4F.4B99@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <536f29$hml@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32587EC7.778B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53ao3k$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325992D0.F70@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53dpcr$9p5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325ABC0E.2CA4@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53g9is$7fg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325C1E26.7388@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53iqj3$3js@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325D8E16.3157@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325D8E16.3157@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46235 alt.discrimination:54554

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:

>>You don't seem to want to talk about the specific implications
>> of the argument you are putting forward.  The question that you haven't addressed
>> is whose right of freedom of association has precedence, and why.

>     The persons in residence in the original community have the right, 
>which anyone with any ability to comprehend the written word has already 
>seen, long since.  I spell it out for you.

Well keep spelling, Ms. Paldhan.  *Why* should those individuals' right to
freedom of association have precedence over another's?  The right pertains
equally to every individual, does it not?  And yet you are arguing that it
pertains "more equally" to some than others.  And you seem not to be talking
about the rights of individuals, but in fact about the rights of a "community".
What happens when the rights of the individual and the rights of the "community"
come into conflict?

>> have the right to refuse to do business with whomever they wish not to
>> do business with.  You now seem to saying that publishing is not the same
>> as any other business, and that publishers should have *not* have the
>> freedom of association that you so cherish.  Your position on this highly
>> inconsistent.

>     No, you are just consistently incompetent.
>     Publishing can be done by the author.  I never said that anyone 
>ought to be forced into anything; I keep saying the opposite.  You keep 
>seeing the world through "somebody else has to do it" goggles.

No, Ms. Paldhan, I merely pointed out the inconsistency between your
insistence on rights to "free association" and your complaint that no publishers
seemed interested in reissuing Arthur Jensen's books.  

[...]

>> Do I have it right on the voucher system or not?  Are people allowed to
>> use these vouchers for private education?

>     Any education they please.  It is supposed to be a return of their 
>tax monies to them to spend by their choice.
>     Best would be no publicly funded schools at all, just the free 
>market.

This is an argument that I've heard, and always have found rather puzzling.
I've never seen anyone argue that the "free market" should decide military
matters, or competition in a free market would produce the best decision-
making about border control.  The "free market" seems actually to be
detrimental, at least from the perspective of availability of text books
for public schools.  I understand that Texas has a virtual monopoly, so
content over control and scope is largely in the hands of a very small
number of people.  That doesn't sound very "free" to me.  

> > By taking money out of public education, it robs everyone who relies on 
>> the public education system,

>     The only "rights" we have are thoswe to "Life, liberty, and the 
>pursuit of happiness"; that does not include the right to rob others to 
>pay for that pursuit.  
>     Public education is a relatively recent innovation, and a spawn of 
>statism, not freedom.
>     It is a court-decreed license, not a "right".

But not everybody has the "liberty" to pay for expensive private education,
Ms. Paldhan.  That means that not everybody has the same opportunity to
become well-educated, and that access is determined not by ability and
motivation but by individual wealth.  How is this consistent with "liberty"
for all?

>> I'm really pleased to be engaging in rational discussion

>     You're the only one who thinks your reiteration of whines 
>constitutes an argument, far less a rational one.

I guess what constitutes a whine depends very much on perspective.  Your
penchant for ad hominem and insult, together with your failure to respond
to the abstract issues I've raised, suggests something less than rational
argument on your part, to me.  Amazing, isn't it.

>> identify as a community.  But now you seem to saying that its a bunch of
>> stuff, the infrastructure that is built with tax dollars.

>     No moron, the community is the people, the property of the people, 
>and the land area on which they live.  You kept harping on streets.

Perhaps some of the confusion arises because Mr. Strom wants entire 
territories, which of course would include streets and parks, turned over
to "Whites" only.

>     Tax dollars come from the community and are spent in the community, 
>so it is the affair of the community; providing the decision, 
>collection, and expenditure are in the hands of the community, directly, 
>which is where they belong and originally were.

Ah, perhaps your taxation works quite differently in the US.  Here, taxes
are collected at the level of municipality, not neighbourhoods or communities
within cities.  And since the vast majority of people use public services, work 
in businesses and so on outside their neighbourhoods, taxes are used for the
maintenance of the city as a whole.  Makes sense to me.  

>     You seem to be trying to superimpose a segregationist settlement on 
>a currently existing city, displacing non-qualified residents.

I'm certainly not trying to do that.  Kevin Strom is, though.

>     I am talking about any standing community which exists as such, and 
>any future community established as such.

Are "communities" legally constituted entities with the right to collect
taxes, Ms. Paldham?  This may be where part of the confusion arises.  Or
are you suggesting that they should be?
     
[...]

> >     (You actually got a point!??!  Will wonders never cease!)

>> ad hominem argument

>     Why not be honest, when your intent is merely propaganda?

And how do you divine that, Ms. Paldham?

[...]

>> Does society have an obligation to protect the individual rights of all 

>     You just keep making whines for justification of theft into 
>"rights", and there is NO obligation to support efforts to rob the 
>productive for the sake of the unproductive.  Starve.

You seem a little bit cranky.  My question is in fact a central question in
the philosophy of rights, Ms. Paldham, and one which political philosophers
and others have contemplated and debated for centuries.  You seem to have
no problem "whining" about being denied your rights, yet you think that any
abstract question about whose rights have precedence when individuals' rights
come into conflict, or about who or what institution is obligated to 
protect and guarantee rights, is a "whine".  I think you have a problem with
consistency.

>> Then let me state my point a little more directly.  To call the US
>> government socialist shows that you don't know what socialism is

>     Socialism is the theory that committees ought to run things, 
>because individuals are not able to do so.  Why?  Because the productive 
>will expect to be able to decide how the produce of their effort and 
>insight will be spent, and that may not suit the whines of the 
>unproductive.  Therefore, those who can't even be effective in their own 
>lives ought to be established as a dictatorship to run the whole world, 
>"redistributing the wealth".  They will instantly achieve a degree of 
>Perfect Sainthood not achieved in any congregation by any 
>preacher,including Christ and the Buddha, and will justly allow each 
>person -make that unit- to produce to capacity and then to receive 
>according to what the committees think is needed, which will, of course, 
>be exactly the case. 
>      To get to this halcyon day, when the rule is "from each according 
>to his ability, to each according to his need", anything goes, since 
>"the ends justify the means".
>     Socialism is a theory suited to hive and heaps, not to humans, and 
>merely provides a comfortable framework for theft.

Like I said, you don't know what socialism is.

>> I suppose you think that your country would have been better off in the
>> 1930s if hundreds of thousands had been left to starve during the Depression?

>     You mean the one engineered by the anti-capitalists, who follow the 
>dictum that the "only way to kill capitalism is by taxes, taxes, and 
>more taxes"?

Are you saying that the Great Depression was caused by high taxes?

>     As for going hungry, the only food provided was at soup kitchens 
>run by communities.  Work corps required earning the pay; they were not 
>the total handout to the shiftless so often seen today.

I know the basics of the US government programmes during the 30s to create
work and fend off mass starvation, Ms. Paldham.

>     As for FDR, I consider him and the other Yalta Pact Traitors to be 
>the worst thing which ever happened to this country.

I don't think that Winston Churchill or Joseph Stalin "happened to [your] 
country".  Had it not been for Hitler, of course, there never would have 
been a Yalta Pact.

>>  When the descendents of African Americans came to your country
>> they didn't have the opportunity to advance through hard work and achievement.
>> And after the abolition of slavery, those opportunities were still largely
>> denied to them, through discrimination.

>     Amazing how many of them made it anyway, and were admired for it 
>and emulated, until the socialist dictum that they were only Uncle Toms, 
>to be despised and castigated.

When did this "socialist dictum" decree that the very small percentage of
African Americans who managed, against incredible odds, to succeed decree
that those folks were "Uncle Toms", Ms. Paldham?

>     They got their start from the owners who risked ruin to teach 
>teenagers to read; another legacy the agitators advocated losing.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point, here?  What "agitators", and
what exactly did they "advocate losing"?

>     You haven't said one intelligent thing yet, just reiterated whines.

I'm shattered.

>     Let's agree to despise each other and leave it at that.  I don't 
>see that you're worth further time.

Don't expect me not to comment on what you write.  It is, of course, your
choice whether to respond.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Oct 12 12:07:43 PDT 1996
Article: 46318 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Griswold:
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:31:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <53itsd$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:   <48c599$786@blksmth.spydernet.com> <3251C923.62C@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52ul4v$s2a@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <3252E943.3852@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52v027$b32@news1.panix.com> <32541F8B.6B36@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <32544471.637B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3254C3D7.47BA@sgi.net> <32555A59.6BD0@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3256EAD7.7AF6@sgi.net> <325874D1.320F@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53aogd$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32598AAC.20EF@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53df3d$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46318 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32718 alt.skinheads:39438 alt.discrimination:54607

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 

>> >How frustrating for you to have run into someone who refused to be drawn
>> >into sidepaths.
 
>> You drew the sidepath.  You began the ad hominem attacks.  You are
>> a hypocrit.

>Definately frustrated.

Not at all, Ms. Paldhan.  Just rather amused at your blatant hypocrisy.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Oct 12 12:14:56 PDT 1996
Article: 39438 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Griswold:
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:31:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <53itsd$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:   <48c599$786@blksmth.spydernet.com> <3251C923.62C@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52ul4v$s2a@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <3252E943.3852@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52v027$b32@news1.panix.com> <32541F8B.6B36@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <32544471.637B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3254C3D7.47BA@sgi.net> <32555A59.6BD0@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3256EAD7.7AF6@sgi.net> <325874D1.320F@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53aogd$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32598AAC.20EF@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53df3d$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46318 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32718 alt.skinheads:39438 alt.discrimination:54607

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 

>> >How frustrating for you to have run into someone who refused to be drawn
>> >into sidepaths.
 
>> You drew the sidepath.  You began the ad hominem attacks.  You are
>> a hypocrit.

>Definately frustrated.

Not at all, Ms. Paldhan.  Just rather amused at your blatant hypocrisy.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Oct 13 10:30:47 PDT 1996
Article: 46383 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: White MENcreated everything
Date: 10 Oct 1996 20:58:06 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 134
Message-ID: <53jo0u$sus@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <533tb3$192@lex.zippo.com> <536gdi$hml@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <539ppc$cg5@lex.zippo.com> <53bpvn$1oa@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53cosr$5d5@lex.zippo.com> <53dft1$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <53fdoe$kst@lex.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:53fdoe$kst@lex.zippo.com

Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <53dft1$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...


[...]

>>>It is highly feasible that the ancient Egyptians did influence the 
>>>Mesoamerican calenders, but I did not say that it was definite.  It is an
>>>area that deserves more attention.

>>So you are waffling.  Unable to find any more similarities between the
>>Egyptian and Maya calendars beyond the 365 day year, "Mr. Stone"?  Finding
>>the difference in the number and length of months in the two a little
>>problematic for your suggested "similarity"?  Apart from the common 365 day
>>year in the two calendars, what other *evidence* suggests to you that it
>>is "highly feasible that the ancient Egyptians did influence the Mesoamerican
>>calendars".  

>So what are the number and length of months in both the Egyptian and Mayan
>calender?

I don't know the number and length of months in the Egyptian calendar.  
When I have a chance, I'll see if I can find a book about it.

>Other *evidence* is the emphasize on the Sun.  While other mythologies 
>have the Sun playing an important role (e.g., Apollo: Oracle of Delphi),
>both these "cultures" (for a lack of a better word) have the Sun as
>the important God.  Remember both are Solar calenders.

The *Maya*, who preceded the Aztecs by more than a thousand years, the sun 
was but one of many deities, "Mr. Stone", and had no particular importance
or prominence.

And the sun *was* the most prominent deity among the Inca, yet they did
not have a solar year.  So the connection you make between the religious
prominence of the sun and the 365 day solar is extremely weak.

[...]

>>>>And I have never said that you claimed "overwhelming similarities" in their
>>>>calendars, "Mr. Stone".  Perhaps you might stop putting words in my mouth,
>>>>as well.
 
>>>So you deny you wrote this (message ID not needed as it still should exist
>>>on everybody's newserver).

>>>Begin quote:

>>>You have "yet to delve into the exact details of either", yet you claim that
>>>because the two calendars are "so similar", they constitute evidence that
>>>the Maya calendar was the product of Old World minds?  This kind of argument
>>>is about on par with the one about pyramids - both bigger at the bottom and
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>smaller at the bottom, and this is an "overwhelming similarity".  Any common
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>denominator working here?  Like gravity and in the second case, and the time
>>>it takes earth revolve around the sun in the first?  Any chance that is what
>>>explains the similarities observed?

>>>End quote.

>>>Please note "so similar" and "overwhelming similarity".  Two part-phrases
>>>that I never made in connection with the two calenders.

>>>You're a liar, plain and simple.

>>Oh dear.  You really can't read.  I've taken the liberty of underscoring
>>part of the sentence in which I repeated your use of the phrase "overwhelming
>>similarity".  

>Note:
>
>"This kind of argument is about on par with..."

>Was this underscored?

Why does it have to be, "Mr. Stone"?  Can't you read it unless I underline
it for you?  Or can't you put that part together with the part I underscored
without someone to help you out?

>>Can you see now that it is talking about pyramids, "Mr.
>>Stone"?  No, you didn't use this phrase to describe the two calendars.  And
>>I never said that you did.  

>So what does "...on par with..." mean?

Oh, how about "of the same calibre as"?  In other words, your argument
equating the Egyptian and Mesoamerican calendars is as lame as your
argument equating Egyptian and Mesoamerican pyramids.

>>You used the phrase "quite similar".  How 
>>exactly, in terms of semantic, does that differ from "so similar"?  What
>>is the purpose of quibbling over this?  You implied a likely Old World
>>origin for the Maya calendar.  Now you're trying to get out of the hole
>>you've dug for yourself.

>In what context did I use "quite similar"?

Interesting that you should ask that after editing out the part where I
reproduced this.  Here it is one more time, courtesy of DejaNews:

Subject:      Re: White MEN created everything (II) [long]
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/09/30
Message-Id:   <52p5uh$fh7@lex.zippo.com>

[Edited for brevity - LF]

>>>4.  The calendar was invented only by whites.  The Mayan calendar bears no
>>>resemblance to Old World ones, so how can you argue it was developed by
>>>whites?

>>Various White cultures have made their own calenders.  Constrast the
>>ancient Greeks and the Celts calenders.  Irrelevant point.

>No, unfortunately for you, its not.  You claimed whites created everything.
>Here is something they alone did not create.  Thanks for finally admitting it.

Well I'm afraid the Mayan calender (non religious one) is actually
similar to the Egyptian one.


[Remainder deleted for brevity-LF]

Is there supposed to be something significant about this?  Other than 
your waffling around, I mean?  Are you now saying that you were not
implying that the similarities suggest to you an Old World origin for
the Mesoamerican calendar?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Oct 13 11:28:38 PDT 1996
Article: 54607 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Griswold:
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:31:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <53itsd$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:   <48c599$786@blksmth.spydernet.com> <3251C923.62C@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52ul4v$s2a@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <3252E943.3852@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52v027$b32@news1.panix.com> <32541F8B.6B36@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <32544471.637B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3254C3D7.47BA@sgi.net> <32555A59.6BD0@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3256EAD7.7AF6@sgi.net> <325874D1.320F@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53aogd$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32598AAC.20EF@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53df3d$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46318 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32718 alt.skinheads:39438 alt.discrimination:54607

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 

>> >How frustrating for you to have run into someone who refused to be drawn
>> >into sidepaths.
 
>> You drew the sidepath.  You began the ad hominem attacks.  You are
>> a hypocrit.

>Definately frustrated.

Not at all, Ms. Paldhan.  Just rather amused at your blatant hypocrisy.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Oct 16 11:04:10 PDT 1996
Article: 74885 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Will the real pepperpicker please stand up?
Date: 16 Oct 1996 16:18:24 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <5431sg$7b1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <3262f665.4918908@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <3262AD96.19BA@nbnet.nb.ca> <53uor5$ntr@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <5417up$5u5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <541gh7$e6s@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:541gh7$e6s@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>In article <5417up$5u5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, 
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>I think I'm having an identity crisis.....

>That's ok, Mike - just as long as you can locate the pizza,
>you'll be fine. You may need to do so soon.


So I am Chief Prosecutor? (or is it Prosecutrix?).  That might
clear up some of the confusion.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Oct 19 14:07:12 PDT 1996
Article: 32718 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Griswold:
Date: 10 Oct 1996 13:31:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <53itsd$8nv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:   <48c599$786@blksmth.spydernet.com> <3251C923.62C@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52ul4v$s2a@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <3252E943.3852@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <52v027$b32@news1.panix.com> <32541F8B.6B36@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <32544471.637B@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3254C3D7.47BA@sgi.net> <32555A59.6BD0@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <3256EAD7.7AF6@sgi.net> <325874D1.320F@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53aogd$qod@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32598AAC.20EF@tao.sosc.osshe.edu> <53df3d$2ib@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:325AB53F.2E89@tao.sosc.osshe.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:46318 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32718 alt.skinheads:39438 alt.discrimination:54607

"Sylvia T. Paldhan"  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 

>> >How frustrating for you to have run into someone who refused to be drawn
>> >into sidepaths.
 
>> You drew the sidepath.  You began the ad hominem attacks.  You are
>> a hypocrit.

>Definately frustrated.

Not at all, Ms. Paldhan.  Just rather amused at your blatant hypocrisy.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Oct 21 09:22:59 PDT 1996
Article: 76165 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: On Nizkor and the Zealots
Date: 21 Oct 1996 13:31:08 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 163
Message-ID: <54ftus$nh9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <326a1078.4353510@news.lm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:326a1078.4353510@news.lm.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:47193 alt.revisionism:76165

alt.revisionism regulars who don't read apn-w may be interested in this.

_____________________________________________

From: landlord@telerama.lm.com (Mayor Loz)

Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power

Subject: On Nizkor and the Zealots

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:44:08 GMT

Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA

Message-ID: <326a1078.4353510@news.lm.com>


BTF <103527.1020@compuserve.com>

Vol. 18  No. 6
October 20, 1996 
    
                            Subject: Project Christie On Target 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  <>  T H E    V O I C E    O F    C Y B E R    F R E E    A M E R I C A   <>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: Controversial subjects are open to debate. We welcome your
input for or against anything presented here in the search for truth. We 
feel that CENSORSHIP of ideas is far worse than anything zealous or 
extremist individuals might say and look forward to your participation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        PROJECT CHRISTIE ON TARGET

        Some of you may recall my coed friend Christie from "Take Up This
Burden". As I mentioned I would then, I have maintained the contact and
rapped with her several times on race and reality when I run into her on
Franklin Street. Today I decided it was time to tackle the Big H. She had a
set-to with one of her Jewish professors and I figured I'd strike while the
iron is hot. When I met her today I took along "40 Questions On The
Holocaust", "Did Six Million Really Die?" and as my clincher, a selection of
Z-Grams and printouts of the brilliant discourse provided by Nizkor on
alt.revisionism. You will be glad to know we scored a direct hit,
effortlessly.

        After some preliminary nattering I showed her the Z-Grams and then
some of the Nizkor "exchanges", prefacing the latter with, "I apologize for
the language in these, Chris, but if you're serious about learning about the
Jews you're going to be seeing a lot of this kind of thing. It's the very
essence of the Jewish mind."

        "Yes, I've noticed all the Jews I meet on campus seem to have real
potty-mouths," she replied. Observant girl. 

        She went over the posts I showed her and the Z-Grams, and I asked,
"Now, what's wrong with this picture?" I was prepared to launch into a long
presentation and spend the rest of the afternoon gently coaxing her in the
direction of the truth, softlee, softlee catchee monkey and all that---but
IT WASN'T NECESSARY!
        
        "Hmmm, well I'll be darned!" she said. "I guess all the Holocaust
stuff really MUST be phony! Well, what do you know? I mean, if it was true
and these Revisionists were just making all their arguments up, why would
these Nizkor kooks react like this, with all this foul language and
name-calling and threatening? Why else would these European countries send
people to prison for asking questions? They must have something to hide."

        People, I wanted to jump up and hug her! I did yell out, "YES! YES!
YES! Got it in one!" Don't any of you EVER doubt that there are young White
people who have brains in their heads and can see through the Jews' lies!

        I swear to you, I'm not exaggerating: she really did it! Without a
hint or any guidance from me! This girl was capable of looking at
documentary evidence placed before her and immediately recognizing the ONE
SUREST, MOST CERTAIN PROOF THAT THE HOLOCAUST IS A FRAUD---the fact that THE
JEWS USE COERCION, INTIMIDATION AND THREATS to silence any discussion or
questioning on the subject! Later on in the conversation she said, "You
don't have to use force to defend the truth, if it really is the truth."
YES, Christie! YES! YES! My apologies to all our excellent female comrades
out there, but you just have NO idea how refreshing it is to meet a young
White woman who can THINK, who doesn't just regurgitate what she hears on
Oprah and in Feminism 101...if I was only twenty years younger...

        (By the by, don't mistake what's going on here. I've already told
her it's her mind I want, not her body, which she thinks is funny as hell.)

        Anyway, we got into why the Jews do what they do. Christie pointed
to the Nizkor posts and said, "I wonder why they act like that? Jews are
supposed to be so smart, but apparently they're not smart enough to realize
that they just turn people against them and get their curiosity up about
Revisionism when they do that kind of thing." I won't try to recount the
entire conversation verbatim, but a sum-up of basically what I told her:

        "Yes, you'd think they'd realize it's counterproductive, wouldn't
you? But actually I don't think they can help it. 

        "You see, Christie, the Jews are a very CLEVER people,
right enough, but they are not truly INTELLIGENT, if you get the difference.
All their cleverness is limited and really pretty shallow when you examine
it closely. Throughout their history it's been devoted towards gaining
immediate advantage and attaining short-term goals. Their much-vaunted
survival for two thousand years hasn't been a planned thing, it's just that
their individual racial personality is highly geared towards personal
survival over every other consideration and that has ensured their survival
as a race."

        "They really seem to have no concept of long-term thinking. These
Nizkooks don't have sense enough to realize that all this rubbish they put
on the Internet is going into the permanent record somewhere. People a
hundred years from now, with distance and objectivity on the topic, are
going to note very quickly that the holohuggers never actually RESPOND to
what are clearly serious questions which require serious discussion, they
just abuse and insult and shout dirty words. Sooner or later some objective
power is going to compile the whole Holocaust story from start to finish,
and when it's all put together you'll have the Diary of Anne Frank and right
next to it one of Andrew Mathis' Internet posts making insulting remarks
about David Irving's bowel movements." (She giggled at that one.) 

        "It seems to be part of their racial personality that the Jews can't
tolerate opposition or contradiction," I continued professorially as we
sipped our espressos on a painfully lovely, crisp autumn afternoon. "If
someone consistently resists them and refuses to validate their own belief
system of themselves as superior beings, and actively contradicts that
egotistical self-image by not only arguing with them but doing it
convincingly and besting them in the argument---then Jews fall apart at the
seams. They lose their cool and fall back on hysterical abuse and
vilification and wherever they can hire Gentiles or subvert Gentile laws do
so, armed force. 

        "They can do that now, because they are still more or less in power
in the Western world---but every year they get a little weaker and we get a
little stronger. The day is going to come when some Jew is going to shout
his insults and filthy abuse at someone in the arrogant assumption that he
still enjoys the full protection that power and money can buy---and to the
shocked amazement of the whole Tribe, the offender is going to get his
head laid open. 

        "Then to their further shock and horror, the Jews will scream for
the Gentile law to protect them and destroy their enemies as the Gentile law
has done for the past century---and they will discover that their
mercenaries have quietly deserted over the ramparts in the night and all of
a sudden they are once more face to face with the Furor Teutonicus, and all
their gold is just so much useless, heavy metal...they will be
all alone, no big burly hirelings in blue to protect them...all alone except
of course, for US...and in our hands we will have something other than a
computer keyboard...and then, oh yes, we will see how smart they are and how
far their cleverness gets them..."

        (Okay, I don't really talk like that in person, but this was about a
two hour conversation, and you get the gist of it.)

        Ah, yes. A crisp autumn day with the trees just starting to turn
yellow and orange beneath a blue sky. A sidewalk cafe with good coffee, and
a few pleasant hours spent corrupting America's youth and stealing a young
mind from right under their fleshy noses. It just doesn't get any better
than this.






From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 24 11:59:40 PDT 1996
Article: 33985 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-tokyo.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The Cowardly Tom Metzger
Date: 24 Oct 1996 12:49:56 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <54nolk$ae9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <325A63E6.7611@rio.com> <53mvhb$pfn@crl3.crl.com> <53on04$a84@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <54mnla$rl@camel1.mindspring.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:54mnla$rl@camel1.mindspring.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:33985 alt.politics.white-power:47475 alt.skinheads:40833

david@pipeline.com (David Custer) wrote:

>As Tom and many of us (more than you might think) would say, "Hitler
>was Right."

Yeah, and about as successful as the General with whom you share a 
last name.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Oct 28 13:28:10 PST 1996
Article: 42035 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (fb6e3ab70726f1ce4442c20ab474f527)
References: <846427693$17806@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:846427693$17806@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!uhog.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 18:48:23 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <846528503$24425@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Ken McVay - ADL, SWC, SPLC Agent
Lines: 7


He takes orders from me.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 31 08:22:03 PST 1996
Article: 42568 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (0462ebe5fb77b988a53bb2ea20c46087)
References: <846563585$27544@atype.com> <846578912$29378@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:846578912$29378@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!uhog.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 21:33:04 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <846624784$3280@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Q for those who object to Jews
Lines: 61


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>It is not an objection to a religion, per se.  Jews function primarily
>as a PEOPLE, not a religion (most Jews are athiests).   Most Jews are
>of Oriental race ethnicity:  they are not European either racially or

What, pray tell, is a "race ethnicity"?

Please do outline, then, the genetic, morphological and physiological
markers that distinguish the "oriential race ethnicity" from the 
European whatever.

>culturally.   Jews operate as an alien people in foreign lands, and
>have done so for centuries.  Jews have always possessed tremendous
>cohesion as a people and consequently have always managed to gain the
>highest positions of influence in foreign lands before finally being
>ejected by the host nation.

I would love to seem some concrete examples to support this interesting
interpretation of history.  Let's see.  Poland.  Can you name the
Jews in pre-World War II Poland who had "managed to gain the highest 
positions of influence"?  How about Austria and Czechoslovakia?
Hungary?  That should be enough to keep you busy for a bit.   
>
>Jews have also consistently demonstrated other behaviorial traits as
>well, such as shrewd commerce practices and a domination of finance.
>Uncannily, Jews have exhibited these same behaviors regardless of what
>nation they inhabited, and despite all efforts to change them.  They

Who were the Jews who dominated finance in pre-World War II Poland?
Hungary? Czechoslovakia? etc.  Who were the Jews who dominated England
during the medieval period?  Who were the Jews who dominated Russia
during the Czarist era?  The Ukraine before Bolshevism? 

>have always found a way to return after being removed from a nation.
>They are a remarkably resilient people.
>
>However, Jews now dominate the White race.  The Jewish agenda is
>totally incompatible with White survival.  The Jewish media is using
>its power to destroy the White race through non-stop race-mixing and
>anti-White propaganda.   The Jewish effect on Whites lands is to
>"globalize" them with faster-breeding non-Whites who will eventually
>engulf Whites if Whites do not separate themselves.   The situation is
>dire.  If Whites wish to survive as a race, Whites must throw off this
>parasitic Jewish yoke or it will utterly destroy their kind forever.


You better add another layer of tinfoil to your colander, Mr. Smith.
Those ZOG lasers that make you want to "race-mix" are just so very
very powerful.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 31 08:22:04 PST 1996
Article: 42607 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (d48b916b82e439254e61a14247fbabc8)
References: <846528503$24425@atype.com> <846545646$26452@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:846545646$26452@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 15:48:26 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <846604106$1416@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Ken McVay - ADL, SWC, SPLC Agent
Lines: 14


ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:

>>He takes orders from me.

>LOL!  Laura why do you have to pull one liners like that, when no one can
>see the recipients face?

But with my superduper ZOG laser gizmo, I can.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 31 08:22:05 PST 1996
Article: 42651 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (34ad96e7b7c568f001e26d7d2eaa9d2a)
References: <846563585$27544@atype.com> <846578912$29378@atype.com> <846624784$3280@atype.com> <846729183$12064@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:846729183$12064@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:18:04 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <846771484$13756@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Q for those who object to Jews
Lines: 87


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>>It is not an objection to a religion, per se.  Jews function primarily
>>>as a PEOPLE, not a religion (most Jews are athiests).   Most Jews are
>>>of Oriental race ethnicity:  they are not European either racially or

>>What, pray tell, is a "race ethnicity"?
>
>Jews are racially Asiatic, they are not European stock.  

>>Please do outline, then, the genetic, morphological and physiological
>>markers that distinguish the "oriential race ethnicity" from the 
>>European whatever.

>Our cowardly scientific world has shirked away from the task.  There
>is no such a thing as "funding" for a politically incorrect science
>project, certainly not for anyone who wishes to make tenure!!   We

That would certainly be news to the likes of Philippe Rushton and
a variety of others who are tenured university faculty engaging in
"politically incorrect" racialist research.  Those whose work is
sufficiently racist seem to be able to get very generous financial
support for the work from the Pioneer Fund (Rushton has been funded
to the tune of something like 700,000 dollars).

>will have to await more scientific verification in another, less
>politically correct, era.   For now, we can easily produce a list of
>obvious, physical criteria which is MORE than sufficient to protect
>our gene pool.  Obviously, White skin is on the list, yes!

Ah, so it seems that you are saying that there *isn't* any evidence
that Jews are of an "Asiatic stock", but you are confident that they
will be demonstrated to be once someone gets around to it?  Putting
the cart before the horse a little bit, aren't you?

So you don't have great confidence in Nazi-era racial science, Mr. Smith?


[...]

>>>Jews have also consistently demonstrated other behaviorial traits as
>>>well, such as shrewd commerce practices and a domination of finance.
>>>Uncannily, Jews have exhibited these same behaviors regardless of what
>>>nation they inhabited, and despite all efforts to change them.  They

>>Who were the Jews who dominated finance in pre-World War II Poland?
>>Hungary? Czechoslovakia? etc.  Who were the Jews who dominated England
>>during the medieval period?  Who were the Jews who dominated Russia
>>during the Czarist era?  The Ukraine before Bolshevism? 

>From Hillaire Belloc's _The Jews_, p. 216:

>"The Jews of the Middles Ages in England was normally a well-to-do man
>and often an exceedingly rich man.  Then, as now, a small number of
>Jews were much the richest men of their time.  The Jew had most of the
>finances in his hands, and this immense privilege, that he alone was
>allowed to practice usury."
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tactical error on the part of Europe's good Christians, no?  If only
they could have foreseen the fortune to be made out of the "unclean"
and "unbecoming" practice of usury, you can be darn sure Jews wouldn't
have been allowed to get their hands on it.

So, if a couple of Jews did very well (the Rothschilds come to mind) in
the 19th century), does this mean that *all*, or even a majority, of 
Europe's Jews from the 15th century onward controlled politics and 
finances?  If you think it does, please provide evidence to support
your conclusion.  And if you don't think it does, please provide
an explanation for your (apparent) believe that the Jewishness of the
small number of individuals involved is in any way relevant.  Why,
for example, is the Jewishness of the Rothschilds any more relevant
than, for example, the Catholicism of Isabella, or the ethnicity of
Napoleon?  


[...]



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 31 08:22:06 PST 1996
Article: 42654 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (e83860702fb51eeec5e6b79394613d30)
References: <846649092$4832@atype.com> <846695884$8564@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:846695884$8564@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:18:24 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <846771504$13770@atype.com>
Subject: Re: What's An Unemployed Hippie To Do?
Lines: 17


smaceach@polar.bowdoin.edu wrote:
>
>Ian McKinney wrote:


>[...](Actually, I think that you're nervous 'cause your nazi friends may
>start to think that 'McKinney' is a Jewish name, too.)

Well it is, isn't it?  Everybody knows you can tell Jews by their names.
You guys are all so obvious!


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Oct 31 23:22:06 PST 1996
Article: 48145 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 31 Oct 1996 13:37:13 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <55aa29$8qs@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net>  <54ls56$e98@news.sdd.hp.com>  <54rrj0$ho@clarknet.clark.net> <54tut6$1m4@panix2.panix.com> <3276A857.6C90@conterra.com>  <3277A2B1.40FB@conterra.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-URL: news:3277A2B1.40FB@conterra.com

Cite the relevant legal statutes for the European countries you
are so impugning.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman





Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.