From ccarp@concept.net Fri Nov  1 14:04:58 PST 1996
Article: 78139 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 00:38:23 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

Late last night, while standing in the backyard, I heard
a feindish, manical laughter comming from the direction of Tampa.
I _ know_ it was Giwer! 

Look for a new iteration, an improved version of Giwer.  He's
got something up his sleve,

You guys run him off for a couple of days and look what happened.

Did you think he would not return?
Giwer achieves his goals, I'm sure.

Happy Holoween.
Chris


From ccarp@concept.net Sat Nov  2 09:31:03 PST 1996
Article: 78196 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Those Paranoids
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 03:43:32 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <32796f33.8854129@news.zippo.com>
References: <3275f1c0.13110707@203.12.22.10> <559ra2$sc2@crl3.crl.com> <32793c96.5754979@news.demon.co.uk>
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I'm glad someone around here has a sense of humor.
Always look for your posts first.
OHV, indeed.
Chris___________________________________________



From ccarp@concept.net Sun Nov  3 08:08:46 PST 1996
Article: 78338 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 03:50:13 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <327c161b.3113149@news.zippo.com>
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>  <55ebv2$r7s@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
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On 1 Nov 1996 18:34:10 -0800, rcgraves@ix.netcom.com (Rich Graves)
wrote:
>mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>>In article <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>>Carpenter) wrote:
>>
>>> Giwer achieves his goals, I'm sure.
>>
>>Indeed. He proves he is an unmitigated ass in need of some serious mental
>>therapy. He should be committed. He's that sick. Seriously. 
>>
>>And _you_ approve of this guy? 
>
>Of course he does, silly. We already knew that.
>-rich

I neither approve nor disapprove of anyone on this conference.
Except maybe for Chuck, he's our best witness and a scarce resource.
 
I have formed one opinion, however. That is:  when Giwer pulls the
strings, arms flail wildly at keyboards everywhere.
You guys talk to fruits and vegetables and then  you say _ he's_
nuts.

For the record, I will say this: Matt Giwer _ should not forge_ or
violate any part of his ISP agreement - it Just Moshe ain't Kosher.

So Matt, (in my sternest keyboard),  You stop it right now! You
collard. 

Think he'll listen?. . . Nah.

Chris_____________________


From ccarp@concept.net Sun Nov  3 08:08:50 PST 1996
Article: 78340 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MESSAGE: "[Sorry.  This article is no longer available.]"
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 03:52:10 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <327c165d.3179937@news.zippo.com>
References: <55em39$eq9@newsfeeder.total.net>
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On Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:44:28 GMT, jtoth@infobahnos.com (Judith Toth)
wrote:

>My posting of Oct.25/96 under the title "Soviets were fighting Hitler
>in 1956 in Hungary" was deleted and the message on my screen said:
>***[Sorry.  This article is no longer available.]***
>So here it is again in case somebody missed it...

[article snip]

Judith, 
Sara & Annie (+ others) told you what was happening and why u were
getting the " Sorry.....message "  a few weeks ago.

We all have ur posts in our computers, we also have all of the
responses.  And now we have them AGAIN.
This is my guess as to what is happening to you.
When you go ONLINE(in f-agent) I think you may be chosing " Get All
Headers In Selected Groups."
You should be chosing: " Get New Headers In Selected Groups."
ISP's need to flush their systems every few days to make room.
Don't be so paranoid.

This is a rough bar you're hanging around in. People have very
strongly held beliefs here. Both sides are always trying to beat the
crap out of each other. People who are here to learn, unfortunately,
have to sift thru tons tripe just to get one or two 'nuggets' of good
information.

You need to do two things:
	1.  Read carefully and digest.
	2.  Apologize and eat a large plate of crow.

Go find my response to your orig. post "1956: . . . "
BTW, I enjoy reading your stuff. 

Chris____________________________________________
 



From ccarp@concept.net Sun Nov  3 08:08:51 PST 1996
Article: 78341 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 03:49:10 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>
References: <53eat3$bm1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3268d606.750769@news.sure.net> <54ftgg$7vu@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54jmv9$mgk@news.csus.edu> <32793c40.285555@news.zippo.com> <55dada$57t@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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On 1 Nov 1996 17:01:30 GMT, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c
anderson) wrote:
>Actually, I think what he's saying is that the photos don't even come
>close to proving what Mr. Ball says they prove.  In fact, without Mr.
>Ball's drawings and captions, they don't prove anything at all.
>
>Bill
Okay, then I agree.
On my first visit to the site, I had mixed feelings. While the photos
and renderings and layout were great,  the comments and conclusions
were not necessary IMHO. 
Mr. Ball has made a big contribution to the topic and deserves credit,
except as noted above.

I revisited the site a few days ago and saw his new additions. While I
have no knowledge of air photo analysis, I am a trained flight
observer with many hours of SAR, I do  know 'shadows.'  
This new evidence is quite relevant and deserves investigation. 
Who doctored the photos, when and why?
Chris_____________________________________________ 



From ccarp@concept.net Sun Nov  3 08:08:52 PST 1996
Article: 78342 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 1956: THE BETRAYAL OF HUNGARY
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 03:56:42 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <327c1716.3364870@news.zippo.com>
References: <54lfcl$31m$1@news3.total.net>
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On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:16:46 GMT, jtoth@infobahnos.com (Judith Toth)
wrote:

>1956: THE BETRAYAL OF HUNGARY
>&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
>1956: THE BETRAYAL OF HUNGARY
>	By the end of President Eisenhower's first term, concern about
>communism was almost non-existent. Aroused by American
>campaign oratory and Voice of America broadcasts about "rolling
>back the Iron Curtain" and "freeing the captive peoples," the
>Hungarians revolted and drove out their Russian captors.
>	During their five days of freedom, [the Freedom Fighters] appealed
>in vain for help. U.S. diplomatic recognition was requested. It was
>never given. The U.S. announced that it "couldn't get involved."
>The Hungarian affair was referred to the United Nations. Americans
>sat up through the nights in early November 1956 listening to the
>stirring oratory of Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge in the UN. They
>didn't know that it had no real meaning.
>	When President Eisenhower sent the Hungarian affair to the United
>Nations, he was, in effect, telling the Soviet Union to do as it
>pleased. [And it did just that!] The communists had the veto in the
>UN Security Council and could stop any action. Finally, on
>November 4, 1956, the Hungarian Freedom Fighter Radio Station
>broadcast these last words:
>	"People of the world, listen to our call. Help us not with words, but
>with actions, with soldiers and arms. Please do not forget that this
>wild attack of Bolshevism will not stop. You may be the next victim.
>Save us... Our ship is sinking. The light vanishes. The shadows grow
>darker from hour to hour. Listen to our cry. Start moving. Extend to
>us your brotherly hands... God be with you and us."
>	The Hungarian  Freedom Fighters conducted their rooftop vigils in
>vain, watching and waiting for American planes... which never
>came. Most Americans didn't understand what it meant when the United
>States referred the Hungarian affair to the UN. Is it possible that
>President Eisenhower and his State Department didn't know what
>they were doing? They did know. They meant for the Hungarian
>revolt to fail. After four years of silence, Congressman Michael
>Feighan (D-Ohio) released the text of a State Department cablegram
>to Tito, the communist dictator of Yugoslavia. Dispatched on
>November 2, 1956. the telegram to Tito read:
>	"The Government of the United States does not look with favor
>upon governments unfriendly to the Soviet Union on the borders of
>the Soviet union." [Congressional Record, Aug.31. 1960 /p.226./]
>It was no accident, Congressman Feighan charged, that just 36 hours
>later Soviet tanks re-invaded Hungary. The Kremlin butchered
>Budapest, secure in the knowledge that America would not oppose
>them. The U.S. State Department had given its approval!
>Would aid to Hungary have provoked war? It is unlikely.
>	Khrushchev and the Kremlin had one overriding fear, the
>simultaneous revolt of the enslaved peoples. In November 1956, the
>satellites were restless. Localizing rioting had erupted in Russia.
>Some of the Red troops in Budapest deserted their offices and joined
>the Freedom Fighters For this reason Khrushchev could not risk war.
>He hesitated five days in Hungary. Finally, savage Mongolian troops
>were imported from Asia to crush the uprising. Even these forces
>were not commited until Khrushchev had tacit U.S. approval.
>	Three years later in a speech in Budapest, Khrushchev himself
>admitted the Kremlin's indecision on using force in Hungary. Had
>the United States made a show of force, or even granted diplomatic
>recognition, the Kremlin would have abandoned Hungary. The
>United Nations, if the U.S. feared to intervene, could have sent
>observers into Hungary the instant the Russians were driven out.
>When the Hungarians were condemned to die alone, the hopes and
>faith of millions of the world's most dedicated anti-communists died
>with them. Our staunchest allies, the enslaved people behind the Iron
>Curtain now believe they cannot expect help from America. If
>Americans lose their freedom, the beginning of the end came in
>Hungary.
>	Any hope remaining behind the  Iron Curtain was ereased forever
>when in July 1959 President Eisenhower invited the Butcher of
>Budapest, Nikita Khrushchev to America... (...)"/John A. Stormer:
>NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON, USA 1964. pp.47-49/
>Posted by Judit Toth
>http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth
>&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
>
See, your post is still here.
Remember "Get NEW Headers In Selected Groups"
Chris_______________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Sun Nov  3 08:08:54 PST 1996
Article: 78345 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 03:49:15 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <327c1609.3095463@news.zippo.com>
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp5.alarm.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230

On Sat, 02 Nov 1996 02:20:44 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>  [snip]
>And _you_ approve of this guy? 
>Mark
There you go again Mr. Van Alstine.
I did not say I approve of Giwer.

Glad to see that you cleaned up your act.
More meaningful posts with less invectives. Thanks.
Chris___________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Sun Nov  3 20:56:27 PST 1996
Article: 78387 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 21:26:57 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <327d0df5.7417017@news.zippo.com>
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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On Fri, 01 Nov 1996 07:01:46 GMT, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John
Morris) wrote:

>In <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>Carpenter) wrote:
>
>>Late last night, while standing in the backyard, I heard
>>a feindish, manical laughter comming from the direction of Tampa.
>>I _ know_ it was Giwer! 
>
>>Look for a new iteration, an improved version of Giwer.  He's
>>got something up his sleve,
>
>>You guys run him off for a couple of days and look what happened.
>
>>Did you think he would not return?
>>Giwer achieves his goals, I'm sure.
>
>Ah, another "free speech advocate" endorses Matt Giwer's methods.
Yes, I am a free speech advocate.  But show me, John, where did I
endorse Giwers methods? 
>
>At the height of his flooding alt.revisionism with reposts, Matt Giwer
>wrote that he would try to make alt.revisionism unreadable until such
>time as the debate was strictly on his terms.
Looks like you let him get away with it too. 
>
>Matt Giwer is an ignorant, stupid man: ignorant of the history he
>claims to debunk, and childishly stupid in his opinions. I say so
>simply that you will know who it is you are so excited to support.
Again, I'm not "excited to support" Giwer. The only thing I support 
about Giwer is his right to say anything he wants. 
>
>Otherwise, who cares? His failure to dominate and control this
>newsgroup was inevitable: no one, no matter how crazy, can set aside
>enough energy to stick their fingers in his ears and yell
>indefinitely.  
Yeh, except for Giwer, he's got 18 hrs a day to yell, indefinitely.
>
>
>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>Subject: Lets get this straight
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:28:49 GMT
>Organization: images incarnate
>Lines: 13
>Message-ID: <4qb27c$oql@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-48.ix.netcom.com
>X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20  3:30:36 AM CDT 1996
>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
>
>        I reserve the right to respond to any post that in any manner
>mentions me in any manner.
>
>        I will continue to do so until this crap stops.  
>
>        That is not a problem with me in the least.  This can become a
>spam conference as I control it (as has been publically acknowledged)
>or it will get down to cases on my terms.  
>
>        There is nothing in between.  
>
>        I hope you folks come to understand this.  
>
>
>"This can become a spam conference . . . or it will get down to cases
>*on my terms*. There is nothing in bewteen."
>
>Says it all, don't you think?
Yup.

John, the killfile tactic didn't work - Giwer got around it and won.
His forgery strategy didn't work - you won. And so it will continue,
tit 4 tat.  Giwer took you all on, single handedly!

There is one secret method that works. Remember when Dr. Keren
left "dreck" mode and went back to posting the good stuff like
pic refs, book quotes, and documents?
How about recently, when Mark Van Alstine stopped drooling so much and
started posting solid information?
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>-- 
>The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
Chris____________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Tue Nov  5 17:44:56 PST 1996
Article: 78583 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MESSAGE: "[Sorry.  This article is no longer available.]"
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 16:24:59 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <327f6a08.4551360@news.zippo.com>
References: <55em39$eq9@newsfeeder.total.net> <327c165d.3179937@news.zippo.com> <55jd6u$nq8@newsfeeder.total.net>
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On Mon, 04 Nov 1996 04:43:28 GMT, jtoth@infobahnos.com (Judith Toth)
wrote:


>November 3rd, 1996
>TOTH ANSWERS:
>	CHRIS CARPENTER lets me know once again, --  just like the rest of the
>self-appointed "shopkeepers of alt.rev." -- that there is really
>nothing wrong here as far as "snipping" articles is concerned, because
>it's all in my head!!! .... besides that, I am such a "paranoid
>newbie" who cannot tell the difference between a computer screen and
>its keyboard.
> 	So, in the "latest" cyberspace lesson Carpenter tells me to
>"Get New Headers In Selected Groups." and that ..."ISP's need to flush
>their systems every few days to make room."
>	For your information, I have been using  the " Get New Headers In
>Selected Groups"  for months now on all discussion groups!!! Same
>button! How is it, that I only experience "snip-snip" on alt.rev???
>	About flushing the system: I just went through all the headers on
>*Free Agent*  dated after September 23, 1996. This is the oldest
>article here on my screen. It took me 45 minutes to go through all
>articles, I opened each one to see how many others have the message
>"[Sorry.  This article is no longer available.]"
>
>Between - Sept.23/96 and Nov.2/96  - ONLY these four articles have
>just  titles and  the articles are not available anymore:
>	1. Allied atrocities... (rblackmore) [Oct.20/96]
>	2.1956: The Betrayal of Hungary - Judit Toth [ Oct.23./96]
>	3. Soviets were fighting Hitler.... - Judit Toth [ Oct.25/96]
>	4.Communists & the Jewish question - Judit Toth [Oct.26/96] 
>	 
> 	I can  see my headers, but the articles are gone! FLUSHED, you
>say? Where to? And why only these four? Because of the subject?....
>	So, if Free Agent likes to flush things once in awhile, how is it that
>Daniel Kerens "Eyes they have but they cannot see" posting is still in
>place from Sept.26/96???? It has 1110 lines!!! Huh??? 
>	And of course there are others, much older postings, but my oneweek
>old articles are GONE. Flushed............!
>	For these four, the articles are missing on *Free Agent*, but the
>headers still there. Is it because I happened to put the padlock on
>them? Otherwise the headers would be gone too, just like the rest of
>my postings - about a dozen or so - I have on list here? Oh yes, all
>my postings are there... in a certain place, and I certainly  found
>them. All of it. But when "flushed" on *Free Agent* after a few days,
>they are out of sight. They are there, .... somewhere,....  but at the
>same time they are not in public view!!!!.
>	You know, dear shopkeepers, - or shall I call you *censors*, - the
>activity  looks to me more like *filtering* rather than *flushing*!
>	Shame on YOU! Go to the corner and repeat 50 times:
>	"I must find a better explanation!"
>Judit Toth
>------------
Hey Jude,
What a sound trouncing, I deserved it.  What's more, my wife caught me

muttering to myself again - this time in the corner.
Here's the better explanation:  Look to Options|Preferences or
state your problem to: alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent.
If that doesn't get it, then the problem is more serious than I
thought. 
It could  be a Jewish Conspiracy(TM). 
Chris_____________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov  7 10:43:48 PST 1996
Article: 78795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 15:46:31 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <3282040f.1097621@news.zippo.com>
References: <53eat3$bm1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3268d606.750769@news.sure.net> <54ftgg$7vu@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54jmv9$mgk@news.csus.edu> <32793c40.285555@news.zippo.com> <55dada$57t@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>  <327d0d98.7323589@news.zippo.com>  <327f6abf.4734644@news.zippo.com> 
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On Tue, 05 Nov 1996 22:11:11 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:
>Ah, but Mr, Caerpenter, the issue is not about the photos themselves, but
>about the INTERPRETATION of those photos. The origional photos used by
>Ball are from the National Archives. Ball's dishonest "interpretation" of
>them resides soley in Ball's publications. 
The issue is about doctored photos. Who, when, and why?
Is Ball's theory correct?  I don't have an answer yet.
You dismiss it as being dishonest. Why?
   
>Big difference. 
Not really.  The photos can't stand on their own, they need
interpretation by professionals. 

>That you try and ignore this self-evident fact, Mr. Carpenter, speaks ill
>of your intentions. 
Blather.

>> >> The more the merrier. I would love to see multiple
>> >> opinions from professionals. 
>Indeed. And do you consider Ball a professional photo reconnainssance analyst? 
>I don't. 
I don't know anything about Mr. Ball.  But I do know that
the Ball analysis and the CIA analysis can't both be correct.
Someone is going to be left with egg on their face.
It seems to me the next step would be to get more opinions from
experts in the field. Yes?

>> >For starts, Mr. Carpenter, try:
>> >
>> >_The Holocaust Revisited: A Retrospective Analysis of the Auschwitz
>> >Extermination Complex_, Dino A. Brugioni and Robert G. Poirier. Central
>> >Intelligence Agency (ST-79-10002), 1979
>> 
>> Thanks.
>
>Your're welcome. 
>
>Mark
Chris__________________________________________________



From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 14 08:00:53 PST 1996
Article: 79419 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!news
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:04:00 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3288bbe7.430007@news.zippo.com>
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>  <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com> <566ehg$g2k@access2.digex.net>
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On 11 Nov 1996 00:45:20 -0500, mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:
>    Check your scale of measurement!  The Topf patent and operating
>instructions posted here by Mark Van Alstine and Danny Keren mention
>operating temperatures of at least 800 degrees - CELSIUS. That translates
>to 1472 degrees Fahrenheit, virtually identical to the 1500 F mentioned
>above.  The operating instructions warn against letting the temperature go
>above 1100 Celsius, which translates to 2012 F.  That's more than the 1900
>F cited above.
>
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

Very important point.  Thank You for pointing that out, Mike.
Chris_______________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:50 PST 1996
Article: 80792 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Joseph Burg on World War II
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:25:05 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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. "World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of
the Jewish State  in Palestine."

 (Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:51 PST 1996
Article: 80934 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:00:16 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
Christians and get control  of their gold. We have already killed 100
million of them, and the end is not yet."

 (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw     


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:52 PST 1996
Article: 80935 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jewish Banker on World Government
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:00:43 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "We will have a world government whether you like it or not.
The only question is  whether that government will be achieved by
conquest or consent."

 (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified
before the U.S. Senate).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:52 PST 1996
Article: 80936 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jewish newspaper on Germany
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:00:13 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France,
North and South  Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are
determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its
final end."

 (The Jewish newspaper, Central Blad Voor Israeliten in  Nederland,
September 13, 1939)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:53 PST 1996
Article: 80974 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: This war is our war . . . .
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:15:58 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "We are not denying and we are not afraid to confess, this war
is our war and that it  is waged for the liberation of Jewry...
Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry.  We are
not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war
production is  based. We are not only providing our full propaganda
power which is the moral energy that  keeps this war going. The
guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy
forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the
resistance. And we are the Trojan Horses in the enemy's fortress.
Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor  in
the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most
valuable aid for victory." 

 (Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, in a Speech
on December 3, 1942,  in New York City).

More quotes at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:54 PST 1996
Article: 81053 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No mercy on women, children, or aged
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:14:28 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 8
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 "Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our
moral enemy. Have  no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill
every German  wipe them out!" 

 (Llya  Ehrenburg, Glaser, p. 111).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/



From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:54 PST 1996
Article: 81320 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Responsibility for WW I
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:44:30 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "The responsibility for the last World War [WW I] rests solely
upon the shoulders of  the international financiers. It is upon them
that rests the blood of millions of dead and millions  of dying."

(Congressional Record, 67th Congress, 4th Session, Senate Document No.
346)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:55 PST 1996
Article: 81321 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Power of political pressure
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:44:41 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "There is only one Power which really counts: The Power of
Political Pressure. We  Jews are the most powerful people on Earth,
because we have this power, and we know how to apply it."

 (Jewish Daily Bulletin, 7/27/1935)

More quotes archived at GOAL: http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:56 PST 1996
Article: 81322 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Heartening news for Jews
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:45:07 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 7
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"The non Europeanization of America is heartening news of an
almost transcendental  quality." 

(Ben Wattenberg, Jewish 'philosopher,'
in The Good News, The Bad News, p. 84)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/    


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:56 PST 1996
Article: 81323 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Unfavorable image not allowed
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:45:13 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 7
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 "You've seen every single race besmirched, but you never saw
an unfavorable image  of a kike because the Jews are ever watchful for
that. They never allowed it to be shown on the screen!"

(Robert Mitchum, Playboy, Jan. 1979)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:57 PST 1996
Article: 81324 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Threat from Jewish underground
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:45:52 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 7
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 "...the [Jewish] underground will strike targets that will
make Americans gasp." 

(Victor Vancier, Village Voice, Statements of New
York City Jewish Defense League  Commander, April, 1986)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:58 PST 1996
Article: 81373 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Chief French Rabbi on Christians
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:23:10 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people." 

(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/	


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:58 PST 1996
Article: 81383 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Gus Hall on Christians
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:24:17 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 8
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 "The Christians are always singing about the blood. Let us give
them enough of it!  Let  us cut their throats and drag them over the
altar!  And let them drown in their own blood! I  dream of the day
when the last priest is strangled on the guts of the last preacher."

 (Jewish Chairman of the American Communist Party, Gus Hall).

More quotes archived at  GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/     	


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:22:59 PST 1996
Article: 81447 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Banker on World Government
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:26:39 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3295c614.3267268@news.zippo.com>
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On 21 Nov 1996 18:08:05 GMT, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Chris Carpenter (ccarp@concept.net) wrote:
>:  "We will have a world government whether you like it or not.
>: The only question is  whether that government will be achieved by
>: conquest or consent."
>: 
>:  (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified
>: before the U.S. Senate).
>
>Can Mr. Carpenter explain why any mention of "Jewish Bank Paul 
>Warburg" testifying before the US Senate on February 17, 1950 
>has been expunged from the Congressional Record?
Has it been expunged?

>All part of some ZOG plot, no doubt...
>Bill
Nah, don't think so.
Chris___________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:00 PST 1996
Article: 81448 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:26:00 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3295c56b.3098648@news.zippo.com>
References: <32939b7b.1055164@news.zippo.com> <5724kl$mq3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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 On 21 Nov 1996 17:48:05 GMT, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Chris Carpenter (ccarp@concept.net) wrote:
>:  "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
>: Christians and get control  of their gold. We have already killed 100
>: million of them, and the end is not yet."
>: 
>:  (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
>
>Gee--what is it that makes me think you made this up, Chris?  Why
>don't you just go whole hog.  Here--I'll show you how:
Why would I make that up?

>"We Jews are evil, I tell you!  Evil, evil, evil!  We will not stop
> until the blood of the last Christian Baby is drained and mixed in
> our matzoh batter, and the last ounce of Christian gold is ours.
> BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!"
>(The Head of All the Jews in the World, 1996)
Why would_ you_ make this up?

>There...isn't that more convincing?
>Bill
No.  Mine is a quote from the Chief Rabbi of France.
Yours, in fact, is made up.  
Your point is understood but  not well taken here. Unless you can show
me that  Rabbi Reichorn  would never say something so arrogant,  I'll
stick with his quote.
Chris_______________________________________________



From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:00 PST 1996
Article: 81457 of alt.revisionism
From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Morgenthau says waste Germany
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:15:52 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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Message-ID: <329471fb.6889517@news.zippo.com>
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 "Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there
during the 30 year War." 

 (Das Morgenthau Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Diary, p. 11).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:01 PST 1996
Article: 81576 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jabotinsky to force Congress
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:30:27 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3295c636.3302091@news.zippo.com>
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On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:21:01 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
># "...Jabotinsky insisted that all energies be expended to
># force the Congress to join the  boycott movement.
>
>You suppose it could have had something to do with the
>fact that Germany was ruled by someone who wrote, a few
>years earlier, that Jews are vermin, etc, and expressed
>his desire to see Jews killed by poison gas?
Did Hitler throw the first punch when he said Jews were vermin?
I think it started before that.  I'd like to know_ when_ the
Jew/German animus started and_ why.

>Suppose country X was ruled by someone who said such
>things about Americans. How would America react?
>-Danny Keren.
About the same way we react when Kadaffyduck spouts off.
So what?  Talk is one thing, acting on that talk is another.
Or are you equating German Jews with America and Americans?
Chris___________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:02 PST 1996
Article: 81606 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jabotinsky to force Congress
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 02:08:40 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <3297ae01.11096223@news.zippo.com>
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On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:42:50 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter), a lying Nazi
>who posts "quotes" for which he has no source, writes:
>
># Did Hitler throw the first punch when he said Jews
># were vermin?
>
>He wrote his book in 1925. In that book, he also expressed
>his desire to see Jews killed with poison gas.
I don't doubt it,  Hitler didn't like Jews.
>
># I think it started before that.
>
>You "think"? Wow. Hey, boys and girls, look! He "thinks
>it started before that".

>
># I'd like to know_ when_ the Jew/German animus
># started and_ why.
Do you know when it started?
>
>Why? Ask Hitler when you meet him.
Cute.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
Chris___________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:03 PST 1996
Article: 81683 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Burg on World War II
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 02:09:22 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <3297ae1d.11123795@news.zippo.com>
References: <3293cb59.510857@news.zippo.com> <3299d0e8.9824233@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <3295c821.3792900@news.zippo.com> <32976bf6.42723625@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 03:29:20 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
Morris) wrote:

>In <3295c821.3792900@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>Carpenter) wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:02:34 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
>>Morris) wrote:
>
>>>In <3293cb59.510857@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>>>Carpenter) wrote:
>
>>>>. "World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of
>>>>the Jewish State  in Palestine."
>
>>>> (Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew).
>
>>>Joseph Burg is also frequently trotted out by deniers as a witness who
>>>claimed there were no mass murders in Nazi camps. The fact that he was
>>>never actually in a Nazi camp until after the war is conveniently
>>>overlooked.
>
>>Is that what is called a self-hating Jew?
>
>Don't know. It's not a category I understand or employ.
>
>>>>More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/
>
>>>A Christian Identity hate site. What a surprise!
>
>>No more hateful than the JDL hate site
>
>Your all too obvious resort to the _ad hominem tu quoque_ fallacy is
>noted.
>
>I just took a quick peek at the JDL website, not enough to form a
>general opinion, but, given that Meir Kahane's name figures
>prominently on the home page, it seems likely that the JDL web site
>qualifies as a hate site.

>I am not interested in whether your
>Christian Identity site is more, or less, hateful.
Neither am I, but you're the one who brought it up.

>Let me ask you this though: why are you posting material without
>comment from a site which you admit is a hate site?
My information comes from many sources.  I gave you the URL.
Let the reader decide if it's a hate site or not.
Chris
>
>--
> John Morris                                
> at University of Alberta  
>-- 
>The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
Chris__________________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:03 PST 1996
Article: 81698 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jabotinsky to force Congress
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:46:48 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 46
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On 24 Nov 1996 06:38:27 GMT, brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon)
wrote:

>In article <3295c636.3302091@news.zippo.com>,
>Chris Carpenter  wrote:
>>On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:21:01 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>[snip]
>
>>>You suppose it could have had something to do with the
>>>fact that Germany was ruled by someone who wrote, a few
>>>years earlier, that Jews are vermin, etc, and expressed
>>>his desire to see Jews killed by poison gas?
>
>>Did Hitler throw the first punch when he said Jews were vermin?
>
>No.  Modern antisemitism often traces its roots back to 
>Martin Luther, who made some harsh statements abou Jews. 
Thank you.
>
>Additionally, German Political anti-semitism was an issue
>from time to time during the 10th century.
Ditto.
>
>I'm curious, are you hoping to lay the blame of anti-semitism
>on the Jews themselves? If not, i wonder why you would post
>these quotes of yours. 
Of course not.  But I am exploring the idea that _some_ Jews
are agitators, else why would history reval their expulsion from so
many countries.  
To blame anti-Semitism on _all_ Jews would be illogical and
bigoted and stupid.

>
>It's all a red herring, i'm afraid. I could just as easily 
>bring in quotes from klansman and National Alliance blockheads.
Yes you could.
>would you then conclude that all whites are hateful based on 
>these select few? 
Nope.
> Jews are no more immune to hatred than anyone
>else, just because you found a few kooks and quoted them means
>nothing.
Kooks?

Chris_____________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:04 PST 1996
Article: 81786 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:41:11 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 27
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On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:25:41 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Speech by Hitler, January 31, 1939
>[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol XIII, p. 131]
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers
>in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into
>a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth,
>and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in
>Europe!

Here's a quote made five years earlier:

"The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by
every Jewish  community, on every conference, in all labor unions and
by every single Jew in the world. There  are reasons for the
assumption that our share in this fight is of general importance. We
shall start  a spiritual and material war of the whole world  against
Germany.  Germany is striving to become  once again a great nation,
and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. But our
Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany..." 

(Valadimir Jabotinsky, in  Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:23:05 PST 1996
Article: 81807 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:51:51 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <32962d98.1497420@news.zippo.com>
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On 22 Nov 1996 16:24:59 -0500, karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L.
Power) wrote:

>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
>>On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:12:27 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>
>>>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>>>
>>># "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
>>># Christians and get control of their gold. We have already
>>># killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet."
>>>#
>>># (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
>>>
>>>Gee whiz. I suppose you have a source?
>>Yes.
>>>When did he say it?
>>1859
>>>Where did he say it?
>>France
>> >Any evidence whatsoever he said it?
>>Yes
>
>Since you don't volunteer, I'll ask specifically: What is your 
>source? What evidence do you or your source have that the words
>quoted were said by this Rabbi Reichorn, or that any such 
>individual was designated (by whom?) "Chief Rabbi in France"?
>
>>No, the ball is in your court - either accept his statement or
>>prove he did not say it.
>
>In 1996, in the United States, Chris Carpenter said:
>
>"I am a lying antisemitic Nazi-wannabe. I despise Jesus Christ
>but find the pathetically stupid Christian Identity movement a
>useful tool in disseminating my lies. I only wish the Holocaust
>had succeeded 100%."
>
>Either admit this statement or prove you did not say it.
Everyone knows that I would not say that. 
Chris_________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Mon Nov 25 06:54:13 PST 1996
Article: 81822 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:34:52 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 49
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On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:12:27 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
># "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
># Christians and get control of their gold. We have already
># killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet."
>#
># (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
>
>Gee whiz. I suppose you have a source?
Yes.
>When did he say it?
1859
>Where did he say it?
France
 >Any evidence whatsoever he said it?
Yes

>Isn't it amazing how these nazi-boys reject all evidence
>proving Nazi atrocities, including the Nazis' own words
>in their testimonies, documents, recordings etc, but will
>accept the above as "evidence"?

Hold it there buckwheat, three points:
	1. Don't call me nazi-boy, doesn't fit .
	2. I do not "reject_ all_ evidence proving Nazi atrocities..."

  	3. I accept the above  not as "evidence" ,  but as a piece of

	     the puzzle.
You drifted again, the case in point is: a statement by Reichorn, a
French Rabbi in the year 1859. 
>
>I repeat my question: can you present any proof whatsoever
>that this Rabbi (if he existed), said what you allege he said?
I gave you names, dates, and places.  Go verify, or disprove.
>
>We have seen forgeries like this before (the Franklin
>forgery, for instance).
Are you sure its a forgery?  How do you know?
Go research Rabbi Reichorn and get back to me.

>The ball is in your court, nazi-boy.
>-Danny Keren.
No, the ball is in your court - either accept his statement or
prove he did not say it.
Chris__________________________________________


From ccarp@concept.net Tue Nov 26 06:24:34 PST 1996
Article: 81871 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 02:09:12 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <3297ae10.11111657@news.zippo.com>
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On 22 Nov 1996 22:28:45 -0500, karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L.
Power) wrote:

>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
>>>In 1996, in the United States, Chris Carpenter said:
>>>
>>>"I am a lying antisemitic Nazi-wannabe. I despise Jesus Christ
>>>but find the pathetically stupid Christian Identity movement a
>>>useful tool in disseminating my lies. I only wish the Holocaust
>>>had succeeded 100%."
>>>
>>>Either admit this statement or prove you did not say it.
>>Everyone knows that I would not say that.
>
>Nonsense. I for one know no such thing. I know that I in fact 
>made up those particular words, but so far, the evidence on the
>table that you said them is exactly as good as the evidence 
>that your alleged Chief Rabbi in France said the words you 
>attribute to him. You said that you had a source for those words,
>and evidence that he said them, but you haven't shown either, so
>I find it reasonable to suppose that, at best, you partake of much
>of what I attributed to you, to wit, that you are a lying antisemite.

Try AltaVista, there's a wealth of information from Chief Rabbis' from
around the world    
Chris


From ccarp@concept.net Tue Nov 26 06:24:35 PST 1996
Article: 81921 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgery (Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 02:09:46 GMT
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <3297ae29.11136428@news.zippo.com>
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On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:38:49 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
>["quote" of "French Rabbi"]
>
># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## Gee whiz. I suppose you have a source?
>
># Yes.
>
>What is it?
>
>## When did he say it?
>
># 1859
>
>Proof, Nazi scumbag. Where is the proof?
>
>## Where did he say it?
>
># France
>
>Proof, Nazi scumbag. Where is the proof?
>
>## Any evidence whatsoever he said it?
>
># Yes
>
>Proof, Nazi scumbag. Where is the proof?
>
>Am I getting through? Where is the proof? Where is this
>"quote" recorded? You have to give us some kind of source.
>The allegation by you, or some other Nazi scumbag, that
>he said it, is not enough.
>
># I gave you names, dates, and places.
>
>You're joking, right?
>
>I repeat: do you have any evidence whatsoever that he
>said this? I don't have to prove he didn't say it. You
>have to prove he did say it. You're making the claim.
I made no claim. I simply posted a quote.  You do it all the time.
We both list our sources or URL's  as the case may be.
If you can, please show me a post where I did not provide a source
for a quote.
Chris___________________________________________
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>



From ccarp@concept.net Tue Nov 26 06:24:36 PST 1996
Article: 81985 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Moulding opinions
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:59:08 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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  "It is necessary to gain the common people to our order. The
best means to that end is  influence in the schools."

 (The Jewish Founder of the Illuminati, Adam Weishaupt)

 "Our task is not to tell the truth; we are opinion moulders."
(Walter Cronkite).
     
More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Tue Nov 26 06:24:37 PST 1996
Article: 81986 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Could this be true?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:02:34 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "Zionism was willing to sacrifice the whole of European Jewry
for a Zionist State.  Everything was done to create a state of Israel
and that was only possible through a world war.  Wall Street and
Jewish large bankers aided the war effort on both sides. Zionists are
also to  blame for provoking the growing hatred for Jews in 1988."

 (Joseph Burg, The Toronto Star,  March 31, 1988).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/     


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:21 PST 1996
Article: 82090 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: On assimilation
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:45:44 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "Jews may adopt the customs and language of the countries where
they live; but they  will never become part of the native population."

(The Jewish Courier, January 17, 1924)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:22 PST 1996
Article: 82091 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: On the Bolshevic revolution
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:50:57 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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"The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish
brains, of Jewish  dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is
to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent
a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish 
dissatisfaction and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same
Jewish mental an physical forces, become a reality all over the
world."

(The American Hebrew, September 10, 1920)
 
More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw    


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:22 PST 1996
Article: 82092 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A dastardly plan
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:41:46 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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"We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is
racial tension. By pounding  into the consciousness of the dark races,
that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites,  we can mold
them into the program of the Communist Party. In America, we aim for
several victories. While inflaming the Negro minorities against the
whites, we will instill in the whites  a guilt complex for their
supposed exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Blacks to rise
to prominence in every walk of life and in the world of sports and
entertainment. With this  prestige,, the Negro will be able to
intermarry with the whites and will begin the process which will
deliver America to our cause."

 (Jewish Playwright Israel Cohen, A Radical Program For  The Twentieth
Century)
Also entered into the Congressional Record on June 7, 1957, by Rep.
Thomas Abernathy).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http;//www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:23 PST 1996
Article: 82093 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Americans die for anti-Semitic Germany
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:36:53 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "Whenever an American or a Filipino fell at Bataan or Corregidor or
at any other of the  now historic spots where MacArthur's men put up
their remarkable fight, their survivors could  have said with truth:
'The real reason that boy went to his death, was because Hitler's
anti-semitic movement succeeded in Germany.'"

 (The American Hebrew, July 24, 1942).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:24 PST 1996
Article: 82094 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More from Lindberg
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:48:58 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "The greatest danger to this country lies in their large
ownership and influence in our  motion pictures, our press, our radio
and our government."

(Charles A. Lindberg, Speech at Des  Moines, Iowa, September 11, 1941)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:24 PST 1996
Article: 82095 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: So what's new?
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:46:44 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "We are disturbed about the effect of the Jewish influence on
our press, radio, and  motion pictures. It may become very serious.
(Fulton) Lewis told us of one instance where the  Jewish advertising
firms threatened to remove all their advertising from the Mutual
System if a  certain feature was permitted to go on the air. The
threat was powerful enough to have the  feature removed."

(Charles A. Lindberg, Wartime Journals, May 1, 1941).

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/



From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:25 PST 1996
Article: 82111 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:15:55 GMT
Organization: Zippo
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 "We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look
forward, not to its  ultimate union with other races, but to its
triumph over them."

 (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford
University, October, 1981)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 07:01:26 PST 1996
Article: 82377 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Power of political pressure
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:33:13 GMT
Organization: Zippo News - www.zippo.com
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <329b7e0d.1698335@news.zippo.com>
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On 26 Nov 1996 00:54:58 GMT, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Chris Carpenter (ccarp@concept.net) wrote:
>:  "There is only one Power which really counts: The Power of
>: Political Pressure. We  Jews are the most powerful people on Earth,
>: because we have this power, and we know how to apply it."
>: 
>:  (Jewish Daily Bulletin, 7/27/1935)
>
>It should be noted that, in every instance where I've been able to
>check, Chris Carpenter's quotes have either been made up out of whole
>cloth, ripped drastically out of context, or both.  He still hasn't
>responded to my query about how the testimony of "Jewish Banker Paul
>Warburg" mysteriously disappeared from the Congressional Record.
>
>Bill
Don't know how it "mysteriously disappeared."


From ccarp@concept.net Thu Nov 28 08:26:17 PST 1996
Article: 82436 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:37:35 GMT
Organization: Zippo News - www.zippo.com
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <329a6591.21897883@news.zippo.com>
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On 24 Nov 1996 16:28:26 -0500, mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <32949a6c.10104771@news.zippo.com>,
>Chris Carpenter  wrote:
>> "The German revolution is the achievement of the Jews; the
>>Liberal Democratic parties  have a great number of Jews as their
>>leaders, and the Jews play a predominant role in the high government
>>offices."
>>(The Jewish Tribune, July 5, 1920)
>
>    Let me give you some more information about source citation.  The
>purpose is to enable someone to know exactly what publication you are
>talking about.  Looking at the Library of Congress catalog reveals that
>there are a fair number of newspapers called "The Jewish Tribune."  What
>you gave above is almost good enough, but you should really give a city
>with that.  Once you do, that becomes a valid and checkable citation -
>it's precise enough to enable someone to find the paper if it exists, or
>discover that no such paper existed if it doesn't.

Point well said and taken.
Chris______________________________________
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From ccarp@concept.net Sat Nov 30 11:27:26 PST 1996
Article: 82691 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Burg on World War II
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:33:40 GMT
Organization: Zippo News - www.zippo.com
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <329b7e33.1736453@news.zippo.com>
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3  On Mon, 25 Nov 1996 06:03:15 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
Morris) wrote:

>In <3297ae1d.11123795@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>Carpenter) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 03:29:20 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
>>Morris) wrote:
>
>>>In <3295c821.3792900@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>>>Carpenter) wrote:
>
>>>> On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:02:34 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
>>>>Morris) wrote:
>
>>>>>In <3293cb59.510857@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>>>>>Carpenter) wrote:
>
>>>>>>. "World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of
>>>>>>the Jewish State  in Palestine."
>
>>>>>> (Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew).
>
>>>>>Joseph Burg is also frequently trotted out by deniers as a witness who
>>>>>claimed there were no mass murders in Nazi camps. The fact that he was
>>>>>never actually in a Nazi camp until after the war is conveniently
>>>>>overlooked.
>
>>>>Is that what is called a self-hating Jew?
>
>>>Don't know. It's not a category I understand or employ.
>
>>>>>>More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/
>
>>>>>A Christian Identity hate site. What a surprise!
>
>>>>No more hateful than the JDL hate site
>
>>>Your all too obvious resort to the _ad hominem tu quoque_ fallacy is
>>>noted.
>
>>>I just took a quick peek at the JDL website, not enough to form a
>>>general opinion, but, given that Meir Kahane's name figures
>>>prominently on the home page, it seems likely that the JDL web site
>>>qualifies as a hate site.
>
>>>I am not interested in whether your
>>>Christian Identity site is more, or less, hateful.
>
>>Neither am I, but you're the one who brought it up.
>
>>>Let me ask you this though: why are you posting material without
>>>comment from a site which you admit is a hate site?
>
>>My information comes from many sources.  I gave you the URL.
>>Let the reader decide if it's a hate site or not.
>
>Yes, yes, yes. Let the reader decide. But you have already agreed that
>nilenet is a hate site on a par with the JDL site, and you did not
>answer my question.

>
>Why are you posting material without comment from a site which you
>admit is a hate site?
I'll try to answer your question, even tho I am not real comfortable
with the term "hate" as used in this context.  
I tend to believe, initially, what I read in books or websites.  If at
a later time I find the information to be wrong, I simply do not use
that material in any decision making.  I add the source to my list and
mark it as being unreliable. 

>I am assuming that you are *capable* of giving a straight answer.
I did.
Chris____________________________________________
>
>--
> John Morris                                
> at University of Alberta  
>-- 
>The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/



From ccarp@concept.net Sat Nov 30 11:27:27 PST 1996
Article: 82818 of alt.revisionism
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From: ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What did you say that rabbi's name was?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:07:05 GMT
Organization: Zippo News - www.zippo.com
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <329b77e1.118088@news.zippo.com>
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On 26 Nov 1996 09:42:53 -0500, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <3295c749.3576441@news.zippo.com>,
>Chris Carpenter  wrote:
>>On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:12:27 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>>Gee whiz. I suppose you have a source?
>>Yes.
>>>When did he say it?
>>1859
>>>Where did he say it?
>>France
>> >Any evidence whatsoever he said it?
>>Yes
>>
>
>[snip]
>
>>>We have seen forgeries like this before (the Franklin
>>>forgery, for instance).
>>Are you sure its a forgery?  How do you know?
>>Go research Rabbi Reichorn and get back to me.
>
>    One would think that the Chief Rabbi of France would be important
>enough to merit an entry in the Jewish Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia
>Judaica.  However, neither work has an entry for "Reichorn."  Are you
>quite sure you have the name right?
That's the spelling I have.
>
>    I also looked up the playwright Israel Cohen.  While there is a
>British Zionist of that name who lived about the right time, there is no
>mention of his being a playwright.  Again, something seems to be seriously
>wrong with your source.
No comment on that just yet.
>
>    Now _you_ go research "Rabbi Reichorn" and Israel Cohen and get back
>to _me_.
I am and I will.
>
>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

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