The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:12 EST 1999
Article: 691570 of alt.revisionism
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: More ??? than answers >>>Mass graves of Belzec Camp
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:28:41 -0500
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With relish and vidictivness  ... and no comments Mr. Mc VAy posted below
interim conclusions of archeological examination of the Belzec camp conducted
by the Archeology Department of Torun University in Poland.

Undoubtedly, the no comment posture was to:

1) impress the lay readers unacustomed with examination of mass graves with a
gory res ipsa loquitur

2) to cover up the exterminationist fiasco, namely the failure to document
industrial mass murder of 48,000,000 or 2,500,000 or 1.500,000 or even mere
600,000 Jews - the smallest figure cited several years after the Nuremberg
trial and until today.

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND of the  Belzec investigation:

1) The Belzec study was started in fall of 1997 after months of intensive
campaing on the internet carried by the Mr. Joseph Pawlikowski of the Polish
Historical Society under the slogan "No Bones No Holocaust."  This slogan was
refering to exhumation of Christian and Polish victims of the Bolshevism and
Nazizm at Katyn, Vynnytsa, Treblinka, Palmiry, Bykivniam, Kuropaty, Kharkiv
and Miednoje while there was an absence of any exhumations of about 3-4
million Jewish victims the Nazi did not have time to cremate.

2) As soon as the Polish Historical Society learned about the begining of the
study ( the Polish leader of the study studied mass graves of Polish POWs at
Kharkiv with help of the wartime air photos discovered by the PHS), along
with the Institute of Radical Nationalism, reporters were sent to Belzec, but
learned very little or nothing about the results.  Even photography by the
reporter was forbidden at the location at Belzec during that study.

That seemed strange that such archeological study was avoiding publicity and
was conduted in secrecy or semi-secrecy.

3) When the Nazis discovered mass graves of Polish officer corps, POWs at
Katyn they immidiately invited Allied observers and the International Red
Cross to overlook the exhumations.   Western Allies refused to come as well
as the International Red Cross.  One forced to admitt that the Nazis were
honest about their investigation or at least open.  Eventually they forced
high rank POW Allied officers to observe the exhumations along with the
Polish Red Cross.  These indivuduals surrvived the alleged Nazi deadly camps
and or "death camps" and reported about the exhumations after the war.

4) considering the above example, Polish authorities should invite Holocaust
Revisionist to observe the study.  Unfortunately, revisionists were
effectively EXCLUDED from this study.  This exclusion and the secrecy cast a
long shadow on veracity of its reports.

5)  Strangely, the full report is not availble to the USHMM as well as to
Nizkor an anti-Revisionist web site, according to the recent Mr Mc Vay email
to Polina Borowska

PROJECTED SIZE OF THE GRAVES;

1) The story of Belzec is unclear from the exterminationist point of view.
Allegedly only one individual Mr. Reder, survived the camp and he prepared in
Polish a report on this camp for the Nuremberg trial.  Alleged Pole (actually
a Polish Jew) Jan Karski was allegedly there but prof Yehuda Bauer disclosed
it was not so and David Engle reported that his brother was in a Jewish
policeman in Nazi service in Eastern Poland.

An alleged escapee from the camp, claimed in Sweden in July 1944 that 10,000
Jews were electrocuted everyhour on the hour and his eyewitness account was
widely publicized by the Allies and included in several books and official
reports.

During the past decades it is widely believed that 600,000 Jews were gassed
burried and in late 1943 exhumed and cremated to cover up the terrible crime.

2) Philo-Germanic Holocaust revisionists e.g. E. Zundel claim that Belzec was
a common or harmless transit camp.

Neutral Holocaust revisionists, such as those represented by the  Poles,
Arabs and Libertarian Americans, claim that Belzec, like the Treblinka II for
the Jews, was a deadly de-golding camp while the factor of 'transit' was of
secondary importance.

Germany never recovered from the emptying of her treausry from the gold by
the Allies during the WW I. During the WW II, the gold was required to
purchase the vital catalyst platinum from So. Africa via Sweden or
Switzerland.  Because JEwish boycots destroyed German foreign trade and
peaceful aquisition of gold, Nazis developed three phase extraction process
of this metal from the Jews in the occupied territories.

Initially they extracted via war contributions forced by burning of
synagogues.

Secondly, they herded Jews into ghettos restricting foodstuffs unless they
were paid with gold via gray market.

Thirdly they developed the Reinhard Action, Rhinehard being the Minister of
Finance which ment de-golding of Jews from their sewn in gold in clothing
during compulsory delousing bath at the transit camps Chelmno Belzec,
Sobibor, Treblinka.

While being degolded, the Jews were also selected for work and sent to
concentration camps, unfit to work sent to depopulated from the Soviet Jews
Byelorussia (Minsk, Pinsk etc), while the dead on arrival were buried at the
camps along with those almost dead who were euthanized by Jewish
prisoners-doctors.

Consequently, the Treblinka II wartime air photos show mass grave for about
4,000 Jews (400sq meters large).  Belzec and Sobior air photos were taken at
such time that the mass graves were not visualized.  Treblinka I for the
Poles shows mass graves for about 10,000 individuals.

Considering above and the fact that about 600,000 mostly Gallician Jews went
through Belzec, it is prudent to project that mass graves at that camp should
contain at least 2,500 to 3,000 cadavers and measure about 250-300 square
meters


ANALYSIS OF THE REPORT

Only snippets of the reports are available.

The alleged surface of the discovered 33 mass graves available from the Mc
Vay posting is as follows in meters

1- 40x11
2- 15x5
3- 20x15
4- 20x8
5- 35x15
6- 33x14
7- 30x14
8- 30x14
9- 10x1
10- 25x20
11- 11x9
12- about 30x6
13- 5x5
14- 60x30
15- 12x7
16- 20x8
17- 16x8
18- 15x10
19- 14x8
20- 30x10
21- 7x
22- about 40x6
23- 10x7
24 - not given
25 - 14x8
26- 9x9
27- 10x4
28- 6x6
29- 30x10
30- 10x4
31- 10x6
32- 15x5
33- 5x5

In my aritmetic is correct the total surface of these mass graves adds to
about 7,187 square meters.


QUESTIONABLE DEPTH OF THE GRAVES:

Report cites average depth of about six meters which seems unrealistic.  Mass
graves are never or almost never dug to more then two meters because that
would require casings of the walls which otherwise would tend to collapse on
the grave diggers and those who bury the victims.  While making mass graves
there is always a factor of urgency, and  almost never scarcity of land.

Perhaps the present great depth is due to the fact that at some time after
the war, supposition considered by the authors of this report.  I can add
that this extra layer of soil was added most likely to prevent local peasants
>from scavenging  for gold among the corpses.

QUESTIONABLE  NUMBER AND SIZE   OF  THE GRAVES

The number of the graves and their size borders on ridiculous and contradicts
the orthodox holocaustian history of this installation that there were a few
huge mass graves all emptied of their content which was thoroughly cremated.

I am too tired to continue -  I am writing for about an hour know  ... will
conlcude on some other day

Polina Borowska

PS; WW, please email it to Inst. of Radical Ntl.



Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:

> Archive/File:
> camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec/Archeological_Report/Tregenza_II.98
> Last-Modified: 1999/08/09
>
> "II. LOCATION/INVESTIGATION OF MASS GRAVES
> October 1997
>
> "Grave No. 1. Located only 5 m. S of BM 2007. At 3.90 m. below
> ground level a layer of dark grey (burnt) sand was found in which
> were mixed pieces of carbonized wood and fragments of human bones
> - among them an incisor tooth. This was the first indication of
> the
>
>                                                          [Page 14]
>
> "presence of a mass grave. Beneath this deep layer lay a several
> centimetres thick layer of foul-smelling water under which were
> found unburnt corpses compressed by the weight of soil to a layer
> only 20 cm thick. The drill core brought to the surface putrid
> pieces of human remains, including pieces of skull with skin and
> tufts of hair still attached, and unidentifiable lumps of greyish,
> fatty human tissue. The bottom of the grave was lined with a layer
> of evil smelling black (i.e. burnt) human fat, resembling black
> soap. As no evidence of fabric was brought to the surface, it may
> be assumed that the corpses are naked. The state of preservation
> of the corpses is due to the fact that they lay virtually
> hermetically sealed between the layer of water above, the layer of
> solidified fat below, underneath which the natural, dry and
> compressed sand through which no air could penetrate, resulted in
> their partial mummification. The dimensions of Grave No. 1 were
> determined as 40 m. x 11 m. and over 5 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 2. A small grave 70 m. E of BM 2007 and close to the S
> fence, contained at the depth of only 30 cm. a layer of pieces of
> carbonized wood beneath which at depth 1.50 m. there was a layer
> of unburnt human corpses. Dimensions of the grave: l5 m. x 5 m. x
> 2 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 3. This was the first mass grave the location of which
> was positively identified from a Luftwaffe aerial photograph taken
> in 1944, in which it appears as a T-shaped white patch and seems
> to be the biggest grave in the camp.[1] The presence of graves in
> this part of the camp was also discernible at ground level by soil
> subsidence and different vegetation on the areas of subsidence.
> Upon investigation, however, it was found that the T-shape
> consisted of three separate graves (labelled 3, 5 and 6 on Fig. 4)
> with Grave No. 3 forming the stem of the 'T'. It measured 20 m. x
> 15 m. and is at least 5 m. deep.[2] After drilling through a 4.90
> m. deep layer of dark grey sand mixed with pieces of carbonized
> wood and fragments of burnt human bones, a foul odour was
> released. The drill core brought to the surface pieces of skulls
> with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human
> fat, and fragments of unburnt human bones. The bottom layer
> consisted of putrid, waxy human fat.
>
> "Grave No. 4. Located immediately adjacent to the N side of BM
> 2007, measures 20 m. x 8 m. and is 5 m. deep. At depth 1.20 m.,
> burnt pieces of human bones were found. Beneath this, a layer of
> water signalled the presence of corpses at the next level. From
> below the water layer the drill core brought to the surface pieces
> of unburnt human bones, including pieces of skulls with skin and
> hair still adhering and lumps of foul smelling greasy fat,
> indicating the presence of unburnt corpses
>
> "Grave No. 5. Formed the left-hand bar of the T-shaped arrangement
> of graves 3, 5 and 6 (see Fig. 4), in which were found pieces of
> burnt human bones in a layer 2.60 m. - 3.80 m. deep. Near the W
> end of the grave the bones were so densely packed together that
> the drill could not penetrate further. Dimensions: 35 m. x 15 m.
> and at least 5 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 6. Forms the right-hand bar of the T-shaped arrangement
> of graves and measures 33 m. x 14 m. and is more than 5 m. deep.
> At depth 0.4 m. - 2.60 m. there is a layer of carbonized wood and
> fragments of burnt human bones. At the E end of the grave the
> ground is covered with grey sand containing a mixture of crushed
> pieces of burnt and unburnt pieces of human bones. A few silver
> birch trees stand between Graves 5 and 6.
>
> "Additional test soundings were made in the vicinity of the four
> symbolic tombs near the E fence in an area where the Luftwaffe
> aerial photograph also indicated the presence of mass
>
>      "Footnotes
>
>      "[1] Air Photo Library, National Archives, Washington DC, USA.
>      Film Roll No.: GX 8095 33 SK, exposure 155, dated 15 May
>      1944.
>
>      "[2] It was because several of the mass graves located and
>      investigated in October 1997 were found to be deeper than 5
>      m. that the length of the drills in the 1998 investigation
>      was increased from 5 m. to 6 m.
>
>                                                          [Page 15]
>
> "graves. The location of three graves was confirmed in the area of
> symbolic tombs 1, 3) and 4. Their dimensions and depths were not
> determined at this time." (Tregenza, pp. 13-15)
>
>                              Work Cited
>
> Tregenza, Michael. Report on the Archeological Investigation at the
>    Site of the Former NAZI Extermination Camp in Belzec, Poland, 1997-98.
>    Lublin, 1998
>
> --
> The Nizkor Project:    An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                           Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html
>        "What I say does not make it true." Matt Giwer, In his cups.
>                      http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:12 EST 1999
Article: 691777 of alt.revisionism
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares    aboutNuremberg    Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian    churches by    Nazis
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:08:57 -0500
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"Lech K. Lesiak" wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, polin wrote:
>
> > Todays Holocaust revisionists are the dissidents of the soviet Union
>
> So when can we expect the revisionist version of 'Gulag Archipelago'?  I
> have gone to the trouble of reading some of the revisionist literature,
> and it's specious tripe.  The logic and evidence it uses would convince
> only those incapable of reasoned thought.
>
> Czesc,
> Leszek

Dear Leszek,

Revisonist Archipelago Gulag has been published about firve years ago.  It
is a comprehensive encyclopedia of revisionism with some errors as in all
encyclopedias.  Its title was Grundlagen fur Zeitgeschichte.

It was published in Germany in such a way as to not state conclusions (e.g.
that the WW II 6,000,000 Jews dead is a great exaggeration and no sentence
saying that the gas chambers were a hoax could be found in this
publication.  Just facts.  The conclusions had to be drawn by the reader.

As with Solzhenitsyn, the publisher got arrested, large portion of the
printed Grundlagen were seized by the government and burned ala  Goebbes
style or cremated ala Auschwitz style.  Those defiant authors who did not
use pseudonyms got charged and were tried as Herbert Tiedmann and the
publisher and heavily fined.

Mind you, they did not state any conlusions just presented mostly Jewish
data, such as those from the Princeton's prof Arno Meyer's book and Prof R.
Hilbergs.  If they would draw conslusions they would be still rooting in
Germanys high security prisons.

The Grundlagen are almost completely translated into English and perhaps are
presently in print.  You might like or dislike to know that there is an
essential input in this encyclopedia from the Polish Historical Society.

But do not hold the breath for seeing this revisonist Archipelago dispelling
Thousand Islands of Lies.  Your Holocaustianity prevents you from looking at
facts rationally.  It is still many years before mainstream scholars given
dispensation from grantors and politicians will do the same to The Holocaust
what prof Yehuda Bauer did to the human-fat-soap story and the A-B's
4,000,000 lie.

I think Revisionism will not be accepted until the Internet generation will
get into positions of power namely about 15-20 years from now.

With hopes that I did not stir your Holocaustian anxiety too much,
remains respectfully yours

Polina Borowska.

PS  Panie Leszku, prosze nie grac Leszka i dac nam znac jak mieli  na
nazwiska panscy dziadkowie.


As to be e



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:13 EST 1999
Article: 691897 of alt.revisionism
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares       aboutNuremberg    Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian    churches by       Nazis
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:56:30 -0500
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Panie Wieslawie,

Widocznie czyta pan tylko moje listy na tematy zydowsko-rewizjonistyczne.

W tym miesiacu pisalam:

1) ze glod na Ukrainie wywolany Lazarem Kaganowiczem, jest
najprawdopodobniej przesadzony, a tych Ukrainskich 7,000,000 wymyslono
dopiero po Norymbergu i to po to by przelicytowac Zydow.

2) ze ukrainskie mordy na Polakach na Kresach sa grubo przesadzone
holokostomanicznymi wymyslami, i wyjsnialam ze polskie ofiary na Kresach
sa wynikiem glupiej polityki polskiego rzaduy w Londynie tzn wszystkie
akcje robi tam gdzie nie ma ludnosci polskiej by niemcy na nas nie robili
retorsji ... a robili je na Litwinach, bialorus, i ukraincach.

3) Ze masoni Kosciuszko i Pulawski dali sie zwerbowac  do Ameryki nie z
idealizmu wolnosci i rownosci i amerykanskiego patriotyzmu a dla pieniadze
francuskiej masonerii, wscieklej ze Anglia odbila im Kanade.

4) ze glupich to chyba powinno sie trzymac w zlotej klatce bo jak sie da
im wolnosc to traca zycie tak jak moje kroliki.  Kroliki mialy tyle
wspolnego z Zydami ze dostalam je od sasiadow Zydow w Queens'ie dzielnicy
NYC.

5) Ze JOhn Kennedy mial wypadek samolotowy prawdopodobnie dlatego ze na
samolocie dali sobie cugu z kokainka by przybyc w dobrym humorze na
wesele.  Gdyby tak nie bylo slyszelibysmy ze ich krew nie zawierala
zadnych narkotykow bo w stanie Mass tylko po to robi sie w takich
wypadkaach sekcje zwolk

6) ze Jezus nie byl Zydem bo jego ojciec jest beznarodosciowy a "matka"
byla tylko naczyniem bo byl to przypadek dzieworodztwa.

O innych tematach niech sie pan doksztalci czytajac moje listy

Polina



"wieslaw_no@spam_algonet.se" wrote:

> polin wrote:
> [...]
>
> Jak sie czuje to Pani "Gestapo und SS" ktore wezwalo do pomocy
> polskich starzakow po tym jak przypadkiem (miotaczem ognia)
> zapruszyli ogien w Gettcie...:))A moze mieli je do gaszenia ?
>
> Zauwazylem ze jak ktos Pani przylozy po angieslku przeskakuje
> Pani na polski, jak po polsku spowrotem przeskosk na angielski..:))
>
> Zaciekawil mnie ten Pani rewizionizm.
> Z definicji - rewizja histori.
>
> Jak dotad jednak widze ze rwiduje Pani tylko historje Zydow.
> Czy doczekamy sie jednak jakis ciekawych prac na temat histori
>
> Polskiego Holocaustu ? Obwinia sie wszak Niemcow i Ukraincow
> o bestialskie mordy na Polakach. Czy tez ma Pani dylemat bo wystepuja
> tu tez Zydzi, rewidujac historje Polskiego Holocaustu - zupelnie
> przypadkiem moze by Pani uniwinnila paru z nich, a to by przeciez bylo
> nie wybaczalne..:))))
>
> Czy wogole rewizjonizm w Pani wydaniu zajmuje sie czyms innym
> niz rewizja histori Zydow i malownaiem na bialo Niemcow..:))
>
> Widze oczami wyobrazni te dziewice przebrane w mundury SS,
> opiekujace sie rannymi i gaszace pozary w Getcie..:)) rozdajace
> paczki z zywnoscia w Oswiecimiu. Pomagajace karmiocym matkom
> ubrane w czapeczki czerwonego krzyza.
>
> Jakis cenny komentarz.. bardzo prosze.
>
> Zauwazylem z Pani listow ze pyta Pani czesto ludzi o ich
> narodowosc - poprzednie nazwisko. Wynika z tego ze traktuje
> Pani ich wypowiedzi w zaleznosci od narodowosci.
>
> Pozwoli Pani ze zapytam wiec Pania :
> Czy nie ma Pani przpadkiem po tatusiu na nazwisko Herman-Goring ?
> Bylbym wdzieczny za odpowiedz.
>
> Moc pozdrowien sle
> Wieslaw.
>
> --
> }} I'm anti-racist and I'm proud of it {{



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:13 EST 1999
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in       Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp
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PONIECKA wrote:

> "Polina Borowska" wrote:
>
> >Below I will argue if and were you are wrong
>
> Why do you keep posting these questions on soc.culture.polish? If and when I
> have time, maybe I'll respond, but only on the NG alt.revisionism.
>
> PONIECKA

The reasons are simple and multiple

Both the First World War 'holocaust' of the 'six million Jews and 800,000 Jewish
children' and the WW II "Holocaust' of 6,000,000 took place in Poland and
Ukraine

Revisionsism of these holocausts is part of Polish life with Dr. Ratajczak from
the University of Opole being the first revisionist ("dissident') being tried
for this "heresy", Gallileo times back again and Volodymyr Katylnyckyj, 43,
victim of Polyo, assasinated in Kyiv two years ago for publicizing the Soviet
hoax of the Babi Yar.

I wonder when our Pope will come with a statement condemning revisionists.

Revisonism is a gene which thanks to Pat Buchanan and persistent work  and
sacrifices of handfull of individuals commited to the truth and not
martyrological mythology will not go back into bottle.

In 1996, Eli Zborowski the editor of the Martyrs and Resistance the official
publication of the WW II Holocaust survivors called the end of this century as
the "era of revisionism'

Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR

Polina




From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:51 EST 1999
Article: 143343 of soc.culture.german
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: More ??? than answers >>>Mass graves of Belzec Camp
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:28:41 -0500
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With relish and vidictivness  ... and no comments Mr. Mc VAy posted below
interim conclusions of archeological examination of the Belzec camp conducted
by the Archeology Department of Torun University in Poland.

Undoubtedly, the no comment posture was to:

1) impress the lay readers unacustomed with examination of mass graves with a
gory res ipsa loquitur

2) to cover up the exterminationist fiasco, namely the failure to document
industrial mass murder of 48,000,000 or 2,500,000 or 1.500,000 or even mere
600,000 Jews - the smallest figure cited several years after the Nuremberg
trial and until today.

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND of the  Belzec investigation:

1) The Belzec study was started in fall of 1997 after months of intensive
campaing on the internet carried by the Mr. Joseph Pawlikowski of the Polish
Historical Society under the slogan "No Bones No Holocaust."  This slogan was
refering to exhumation of Christian and Polish victims of the Bolshevism and
Nazizm at Katyn, Vynnytsa, Treblinka, Palmiry, Bykivniam, Kuropaty, Kharkiv
and Miednoje while there was an absence of any exhumations of about 3-4
million Jewish victims the Nazi did not have time to cremate.

2) As soon as the Polish Historical Society learned about the begining of the
study ( the Polish leader of the study studied mass graves of Polish POWs at
Kharkiv with help of the wartime air photos discovered by the PHS), along
with the Institute of Radical Nationalism, reporters were sent to Belzec, but
learned very little or nothing about the results.  Even photography by the
reporter was forbidden at the location at Belzec during that study.

That seemed strange that such archeological study was avoiding publicity and
was conduted in secrecy or semi-secrecy.

3) When the Nazis discovered mass graves of Polish officer corps, POWs at
Katyn they immidiately invited Allied observers and the International Red
Cross to overlook the exhumations.   Western Allies refused to come as well
as the International Red Cross.  One forced to admitt that the Nazis were
honest about their investigation or at least open.  Eventually they forced
high rank POW Allied officers to observe the exhumations along with the
Polish Red Cross.  These indivuduals surrvived the alleged Nazi deadly camps
and or "death camps" and reported about the exhumations after the war.

4) considering the above example, Polish authorities should invite Holocaust
Revisionist to observe the study.  Unfortunately, revisionists were
effectively EXCLUDED from this study.  This exclusion and the secrecy cast a
long shadow on veracity of its reports.

5)  Strangely, the full report is not availble to the USHMM as well as to
Nizkor an anti-Revisionist web site, according to the recent Mr Mc Vay email
to Polina Borowska

PROJECTED SIZE OF THE GRAVES;

1) The story of Belzec is unclear from the exterminationist point of view.
Allegedly only one individual Mr. Reder, survived the camp and he prepared in
Polish a report on this camp for the Nuremberg trial.  Alleged Pole (actually
a Polish Jew) Jan Karski was allegedly there but prof Yehuda Bauer disclosed
it was not so and David Engle reported that his brother was in a Jewish
policeman in Nazi service in Eastern Poland.

An alleged escapee from the camp, claimed in Sweden in July 1944 that 10,000
Jews were electrocuted everyhour on the hour and his eyewitness account was
widely publicized by the Allies and included in several books and official
reports.

During the past decades it is widely believed that 600,000 Jews were gassed
burried and in late 1943 exhumed and cremated to cover up the terrible crime.

2) Philo-Germanic Holocaust revisionists e.g. E. Zundel claim that Belzec was
a common or harmless transit camp.

Neutral Holocaust revisionists, such as those represented by the  Poles,
Arabs and Libertarian Americans, claim that Belzec, like the Treblinka II for
the Jews, was a deadly de-golding camp while the factor of 'transit' was of
secondary importance.

Germany never recovered from the emptying of her treausry from the gold by
the Allies during the WW I. During the WW II, the gold was required to
purchase the vital catalyst platinum from So. Africa via Sweden or
Switzerland.  Because JEwish boycots destroyed German foreign trade and
peaceful aquisition of gold, Nazis developed three phase extraction process
of this metal from the Jews in the occupied territories.

Initially they extracted via war contributions forced by burning of
synagogues.

Secondly, they herded Jews into ghettos restricting foodstuffs unless they
were paid with gold via gray market.

Thirdly they developed the Reinhard Action, Rhinehard being the Minister of
Finance which ment de-golding of Jews from their sewn in gold in clothing
during compulsory delousing bath at the transit camps Chelmno Belzec,
Sobibor, Treblinka.

While being degolded, the Jews were also selected for work and sent to
concentration camps, unfit to work sent to depopulated from the Soviet Jews
Byelorussia (Minsk, Pinsk etc), while the dead on arrival were buried at the
camps along with those almost dead who were euthanized by Jewish
prisoners-doctors.

Consequently, the Treblinka II wartime air photos show mass grave for about
4,000 Jews (400sq meters large).  Belzec and Sobior air photos were taken at
such time that the mass graves were not visualized.  Treblinka I for the
Poles shows mass graves for about 10,000 individuals.

Considering above and the fact that about 600,000 mostly Gallician Jews went
through Belzec, it is prudent to project that mass graves at that camp should
contain at least 2,500 to 3,000 cadavers and measure about 250-300 square
meters


ANALYSIS OF THE REPORT

Only snippets of the reports are available.

The alleged surface of the discovered 33 mass graves available from the Mc
Vay posting is as follows in meters

1- 40x11
2- 15x5
3- 20x15
4- 20x8
5- 35x15
6- 33x14
7- 30x14
8- 30x14
9- 10x1
10- 25x20
11- 11x9
12- about 30x6
13- 5x5
14- 60x30
15- 12x7
16- 20x8
17- 16x8
18- 15x10
19- 14x8
20- 30x10
21- 7x
22- about 40x6
23- 10x7
24 - not given
25 - 14x8
26- 9x9
27- 10x4
28- 6x6
29- 30x10
30- 10x4
31- 10x6
32- 15x5
33- 5x5

In my aritmetic is correct the total surface of these mass graves adds to
about 7,187 square meters.


QUESTIONABLE DEPTH OF THE GRAVES:

Report cites average depth of about six meters which seems unrealistic.  Mass
graves are never or almost never dug to more then two meters because that
would require casings of the walls which otherwise would tend to collapse on
the grave diggers and those who bury the victims.  While making mass graves
there is always a factor of urgency, and  almost never scarcity of land.

Perhaps the present great depth is due to the fact that at some time after
the war, supposition considered by the authors of this report.  I can add
that this extra layer of soil was added most likely to prevent local peasants
>from scavenging  for gold among the corpses.

QUESTIONABLE  NUMBER AND SIZE   OF  THE GRAVES

The number of the graves and their size borders on ridiculous and contradicts
the orthodox holocaustian history of this installation that there were a few
huge mass graves all emptied of their content which was thoroughly cremated.

I am too tired to continue -  I am writing for about an hour know  ... will
conlcude on some other day

Polina Borowska

PS; WW, please email it to Inst. of Radical Ntl.



Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:

> Archive/File:
> camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec/Archeological_Report/Tregenza_II.98
> Last-Modified: 1999/08/09
>
> "II. LOCATION/INVESTIGATION OF MASS GRAVES
> October 1997
>
> "Grave No. 1. Located only 5 m. S of BM 2007. At 3.90 m. below
> ground level a layer of dark grey (burnt) sand was found in which
> were mixed pieces of carbonized wood and fragments of human bones
> - among them an incisor tooth. This was the first indication of
> the
>
>                                                          [Page 14]
>
> "presence of a mass grave. Beneath this deep layer lay a several
> centimetres thick layer of foul-smelling water under which were
> found unburnt corpses compressed by the weight of soil to a layer
> only 20 cm thick. The drill core brought to the surface putrid
> pieces of human remains, including pieces of skull with skin and
> tufts of hair still attached, and unidentifiable lumps of greyish,
> fatty human tissue. The bottom of the grave was lined with a layer
> of evil smelling black (i.e. burnt) human fat, resembling black
> soap. As no evidence of fabric was brought to the surface, it may
> be assumed that the corpses are naked. The state of preservation
> of the corpses is due to the fact that they lay virtually
> hermetically sealed between the layer of water above, the layer of
> solidified fat below, underneath which the natural, dry and
> compressed sand through which no air could penetrate, resulted in
> their partial mummification. The dimensions of Grave No. 1 were
> determined as 40 m. x 11 m. and over 5 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 2. A small grave 70 m. E of BM 2007 and close to the S
> fence, contained at the depth of only 30 cm. a layer of pieces of
> carbonized wood beneath which at depth 1.50 m. there was a layer
> of unburnt human corpses. Dimensions of the grave: l5 m. x 5 m. x
> 2 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 3. This was the first mass grave the location of which
> was positively identified from a Luftwaffe aerial photograph taken
> in 1944, in which it appears as a T-shaped white patch and seems
> to be the biggest grave in the camp.[1] The presence of graves in
> this part of the camp was also discernible at ground level by soil
> subsidence and different vegetation on the areas of subsidence.
> Upon investigation, however, it was found that the T-shape
> consisted of three separate graves (labelled 3, 5 and 6 on Fig. 4)
> with Grave No. 3 forming the stem of the 'T'. It measured 20 m. x
> 15 m. and is at least 5 m. deep.[2] After drilling through a 4.90
> m. deep layer of dark grey sand mixed with pieces of carbonized
> wood and fragments of burnt human bones, a foul odour was
> released. The drill core brought to the surface pieces of skulls
> with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human
> fat, and fragments of unburnt human bones. The bottom layer
> consisted of putrid, waxy human fat.
>
> "Grave No. 4. Located immediately adjacent to the N side of BM
> 2007, measures 20 m. x 8 m. and is 5 m. deep. At depth 1.20 m.,
> burnt pieces of human bones were found. Beneath this, a layer of
> water signalled the presence of corpses at the next level. From
> below the water layer the drill core brought to the surface pieces
> of unburnt human bones, including pieces of skulls with skin and
> hair still adhering and lumps of foul smelling greasy fat,
> indicating the presence of unburnt corpses
>
> "Grave No. 5. Formed the left-hand bar of the T-shaped arrangement
> of graves 3, 5 and 6 (see Fig. 4), in which were found pieces of
> burnt human bones in a layer 2.60 m. - 3.80 m. deep. Near the W
> end of the grave the bones were so densely packed together that
> the drill could not penetrate further. Dimensions: 35 m. x 15 m.
> and at least 5 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 6. Forms the right-hand bar of the T-shaped arrangement
> of graves and measures 33 m. x 14 m. and is more than 5 m. deep.
> At depth 0.4 m. - 2.60 m. there is a layer of carbonized wood and
> fragments of burnt human bones. At the E end of the grave the
> ground is covered with grey sand containing a mixture of crushed
> pieces of burnt and unburnt pieces of human bones. A few silver
> birch trees stand between Graves 5 and 6.
>
> "Additional test soundings were made in the vicinity of the four
> symbolic tombs near the E fence in an area where the Luftwaffe
> aerial photograph also indicated the presence of mass
>
>      "Footnotes
>
>      "[1] Air Photo Library, National Archives, Washington DC, USA.
>      Film Roll No.: GX 8095 33 SK, exposure 155, dated 15 May
>      1944.
>
>      "[2] It was because several of the mass graves located and
>      investigated in October 1997 were found to be deeper than 5
>      m. that the length of the drills in the 1998 investigation
>      was increased from 5 m. to 6 m.
>
>                                                          [Page 15]
>
> "graves. The location of three graves was confirmed in the area of
> symbolic tombs 1, 3) and 4. Their dimensions and depths were not
> determined at this time." (Tregenza, pp. 13-15)
>
>                              Work Cited
>
> Tregenza, Michael. Report on the Archeological Investigation at the
>    Site of the Former NAZI Extermination Camp in Belzec, Poland, 1997-98.
>    Lublin, 1998
>
> --
> The Nizkor Project:    An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                           Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html
>        "What I say does not make it true." Matt Giwer, In his cups.
>                      http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:51 EST 1999
Article: 143433 of soc.culture.german
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares    aboutNuremberg    Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian    churches by    Nazis
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:08:57 -0500
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"Lech K. Lesiak" wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, polin wrote:
>
> > Todays Holocaust revisionists are the dissidents of the soviet Union
>
> So when can we expect the revisionist version of 'Gulag Archipelago'?  I
> have gone to the trouble of reading some of the revisionist literature,
> and it's specious tripe.  The logic and evidence it uses would convince
> only those incapable of reasoned thought.
>
> Czesc,
> Leszek

Dear Leszek,

Revisonist Archipelago Gulag has been published about firve years ago.  It
is a comprehensive encyclopedia of revisionism with some errors as in all
encyclopedias.  Its title was Grundlagen fur Zeitgeschichte.

It was published in Germany in such a way as to not state conclusions (e.g.
that the WW II 6,000,000 Jews dead is a great exaggeration and no sentence
saying that the gas chambers were a hoax could be found in this
publication.  Just facts.  The conclusions had to be drawn by the reader.

As with Solzhenitsyn, the publisher got arrested, large portion of the
printed Grundlagen were seized by the government and burned ala  Goebbes
style or cremated ala Auschwitz style.  Those defiant authors who did not
use pseudonyms got charged and were tried as Herbert Tiedmann and the
publisher and heavily fined.

Mind you, they did not state any conlusions just presented mostly Jewish
data, such as those from the Princeton's prof Arno Meyer's book and Prof R.
Hilbergs.  If they would draw conslusions they would be still rooting in
Germanys high security prisons.

The Grundlagen are almost completely translated into English and perhaps are
presently in print.  You might like or dislike to know that there is an
essential input in this encyclopedia from the Polish Historical Society.

But do not hold the breath for seeing this revisonist Archipelago dispelling
Thousand Islands of Lies.  Your Holocaustianity prevents you from looking at
facts rationally.  It is still many years before mainstream scholars given
dispensation from grantors and politicians will do the same to The Holocaust
what prof Yehuda Bauer did to the human-fat-soap story and the A-B's
4,000,000 lie.

I think Revisionism will not be accepted until the Internet generation will
get into positions of power namely about 15-20 years from now.

With hopes that I did not stir your Holocaustian anxiety too much,
remains respectfully yours

Polina Borowska.

PS  Panie Leszku, prosze nie grac Leszka i dac nam znac jak mieli  na
nazwiska panscy dziadkowie.


As to be e



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:52 EST 1999
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From: polin 
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Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares       aboutNuremberg    Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian    churches by       Nazis
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:56:30 -0500
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Panie Wieslawie,

Widocznie czyta pan tylko moje listy na tematy zydowsko-rewizjonistyczne.

W tym miesiacu pisalam:

1) ze glod na Ukrainie wywolany Lazarem Kaganowiczem, jest
najprawdopodobniej przesadzony, a tych Ukrainskich 7,000,000 wymyslono
dopiero po Norymbergu i to po to by przelicytowac Zydow.

2) ze ukrainskie mordy na Polakach na Kresach sa grubo przesadzone
holokostomanicznymi wymyslami, i wyjsnialam ze polskie ofiary na Kresach
sa wynikiem glupiej polityki polskiego rzaduy w Londynie tzn wszystkie
akcje robi tam gdzie nie ma ludnosci polskiej by niemcy na nas nie robili
retorsji ... a robili je na Litwinach, bialorus, i ukraincach.

3) Ze masoni Kosciuszko i Pulawski dali sie zwerbowac  do Ameryki nie z
idealizmu wolnosci i rownosci i amerykanskiego patriotyzmu a dla pieniadze
francuskiej masonerii, wscieklej ze Anglia odbila im Kanade.

4) ze glupich to chyba powinno sie trzymac w zlotej klatce bo jak sie da
im wolnosc to traca zycie tak jak moje kroliki.  Kroliki mialy tyle
wspolnego z Zydami ze dostalam je od sasiadow Zydow w Queens'ie dzielnicy
NYC.

5) Ze JOhn Kennedy mial wypadek samolotowy prawdopodobnie dlatego ze na
samolocie dali sobie cugu z kokainka by przybyc w dobrym humorze na
wesele.  Gdyby tak nie bylo slyszelibysmy ze ich krew nie zawierala
zadnych narkotykow bo w stanie Mass tylko po to robi sie w takich
wypadkaach sekcje zwolk

6) ze Jezus nie byl Zydem bo jego ojciec jest beznarodosciowy a "matka"
byla tylko naczyniem bo byl to przypadek dzieworodztwa.

O innych tematach niech sie pan doksztalci czytajac moje listy

Polina



"wieslaw_no@spam_algonet.se" wrote:

> polin wrote:
> [...]
>
> Jak sie czuje to Pani "Gestapo und SS" ktore wezwalo do pomocy
> polskich starzakow po tym jak przypadkiem (miotaczem ognia)
> zapruszyli ogien w Gettcie...:))A moze mieli je do gaszenia ?
>
> Zauwazylem ze jak ktos Pani przylozy po angieslku przeskakuje
> Pani na polski, jak po polsku spowrotem przeskosk na angielski..:))
>
> Zaciekawil mnie ten Pani rewizionizm.
> Z definicji - rewizja histori.
>
> Jak dotad jednak widze ze rwiduje Pani tylko historje Zydow.
> Czy doczekamy sie jednak jakis ciekawych prac na temat histori
>
> Polskiego Holocaustu ? Obwinia sie wszak Niemcow i Ukraincow
> o bestialskie mordy na Polakach. Czy tez ma Pani dylemat bo wystepuja
> tu tez Zydzi, rewidujac historje Polskiego Holocaustu - zupelnie
> przypadkiem moze by Pani uniwinnila paru z nich, a to by przeciez bylo
> nie wybaczalne..:))))
>
> Czy wogole rewizjonizm w Pani wydaniu zajmuje sie czyms innym
> niz rewizja histori Zydow i malownaiem na bialo Niemcow..:))
>
> Widze oczami wyobrazni te dziewice przebrane w mundury SS,
> opiekujace sie rannymi i gaszace pozary w Getcie..:)) rozdajace
> paczki z zywnoscia w Oswiecimiu. Pomagajace karmiocym matkom
> ubrane w czapeczki czerwonego krzyza.
>
> Jakis cenny komentarz.. bardzo prosze.
>
> Zauwazylem z Pani listow ze pyta Pani czesto ludzi o ich
> narodowosc - poprzednie nazwisko. Wynika z tego ze traktuje
> Pani ich wypowiedzi w zaleznosci od narodowosci.
>
> Pozwoli Pani ze zapytam wiec Pania :
> Czy nie ma Pani przpadkiem po tatusiu na nazwisko Herman-Goring ?
> Bylbym wdzieczny za odpowiedz.
>
> Moc pozdrowien sle
> Wieslaw.
>
> --
> }} I'm anti-racist and I'm proud of it {{



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:52 EST 1999
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in       Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp
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PONIECKA wrote:

> "Polina Borowska" wrote:
>
> >Below I will argue if and were you are wrong
>
> Why do you keep posting these questions on soc.culture.polish? If and when I
> have time, maybe I'll respond, but only on the NG alt.revisionism.
>
> PONIECKA

The reasons are simple and multiple

Both the First World War 'holocaust' of the 'six million Jews and 800,000 Jewish
children' and the WW II "Holocaust' of 6,000,000 took place in Poland and
Ukraine

Revisionsism of these holocausts is part of Polish life with Dr. Ratajczak from
the University of Opole being the first revisionist ("dissident') being tried
for this "heresy", Gallileo times back again and Volodymyr Katylnyckyj, 43,
victim of Polyo, assasinated in Kyiv two years ago for publicizing the Soviet
hoax of the Babi Yar.

I wonder when our Pope will come with a statement condemning revisionists.

Revisonism is a gene which thanks to Pat Buchanan and persistent work  and
sacrifices of handfull of individuals commited to the truth and not
martyrological mythology will not go back into bottle.

In 1996, Eli Zborowski the editor of the Martyrs and Resistance the official
publication of the WW II Holocaust survivors called the end of this century as
the "era of revisionism'

Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR

Polina




From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:58 EST 1999
Article: 192914 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Fwd: materialy "dydaktyczne" do historii WWII
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:00:38 -0500
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Wwrobel22@aol.com wrote:

>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: materialy "dydaktyczne" do historii WWII
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:39:15 -0800
> From: "W.Glowacki" 
> Reply-To: Discussion of Polish Culture list
>      
> To: POLAND-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>
>

Pan Glowacki jest zdaje sie zagladowcem i wiele pomocy od niego sie nie
dostanie.  Jego i innych polskich zagadowcow czyli holokostjan jest odzywka
"Wielu z nas Polakow pomagalo Zydom".

Jest to zupelnie glupawa i bez efektu odpowiedz naychmiast torpedowana ROZSADNA
i nie do pobicia odpowiedzia: Tych kilka tysiecy Polakow co pomagali Zydom sa
dowodem ze kazdy z was mogl to robic.  Zydow bylo 3 miliony a was 25 milionow.
Dlaczego pozwoliliscie zginac 3,000,000 polskich Zydow nie liczac 3 milionow z
poza Polski???"

Jedyna rozsadna odpowiedzia Zydom na ich skargi to jest: "Was nie zginelo 3
lub 6 milionow i dlatego tak wielu Polakow nie bylo przebnych dawac wam pomoc.
Dowodami ze holokost jest wylobrzymieniem jest brak dowodow materialnych
zaglady a mianowicie ...."

Polina

Prosze to dac na Buffalo i gdzie tylko mozna.



> Kilka dni temu. w szkole syna, odbyla sie konferencjo- spotkanie z gronem
> nauczycielskim, ktore raczylem zaszczycic swoja i malzonki obecnoscia. Nic
> bowiem nie jest lepszego w kanadyjskim systemie edukacji szkolnej, jak
> scisle- ale inaczej(by nie dostac ataku serca i pasc sztywnym) wiezy
> rodzicow z nauczycielami. Podczas  tychze konferencji,  nauczyciele
> najczesciej chwala sie swoim swiezymi osiagnieciami, zdobytymi glownie przy
> pomocy strajkow(jedenascie dodatkowych dni wolnych od pracy, kosztem
> oczywiscie mlodziezy), edukacja(pomaturalne kursy nauczycielskie plus
> ekstra szkolenia w przedmiocie plec kobiety, albo miejszosci seksualnych),
> czy tez poprzednim doswiadczeniem zyciowym(czesto zreformowany narkoman,
> lubo byla pracowniczka ulicznego przemyslu erotycznego dla doroslych).
>
> Tym razem jednak bylo jakby inaczej, skupiono sie bowiem na poinformowaniu
> rodzicow o "duzym wkladzie wlozonym(przez nauczycieli) w umozliwienie
> uczniom poznania historii II WS i poglebienia wiedzy o Holocauscie".
> Z duzego woluminu lektur pomocniczych o II WS, wystawionego w klasie,
> pozwolilem sobie odpisac fragment, jaki przytaczam ponizej.
>
> W.G.
> ps.tlumaczenie wydaje mi sie raczej rzecza zbedna.
> ******
>
> "[..]Early in 1943 Himler had been shocked to discover that much of the
> remaining Jewish labour in the Ghetto was exploited by SS agents in a
> private black market of their own, instead of being employed in armoury
> manufacture.
>
> He ordered the final evacuation of the Ghetto, but before his orders could
> be carried out Jewish partisans, who had a secret cache of arms, began
> their revolt against SS.
>
> They held for 33 days against SS-General Stroop's 2000 men.
>
> These typically enough by now, consisted not of German, but Poles and
> Lithuanians, supplemented by two training battalions of the Waffen-SS.
> Stroop eventualy either killed or arrested for extermination every Jew left
> in the place than he burned the Ghetto to the ground.[...]"
>
> Tytul: "SS and Gestapo rule by terror"
> Autor: Roger Manvell advised by Heinrich Fraenkel
> Wydania: I-sze w 1969. Cytowane wyd IV-te z 1976/strony 134-5/
> Wydawca: Ballantine
> ISBN O-345-24990-9-250



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:58 EST 1999
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: polska policja w gettcie >>Fwd: Dydaktyka Messrs. Glowackiego i    Rybaka
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 17:35:19 -0500
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Wwrobel22@aol.com wrote:

Niech bedzie pochwalony JC!

Dostalam ten list z usilna prosba by Dr. Dragan ze Stamfordu, jako specjalisty
od rzekomego powstania w gettcie i aby na niego odpowiedzial.  Rozmawialam z
nim, powiedzial ze jest zawalony praca zawodowa i naukowa i nie bedzie w
stanie odpowiedziec.  Oto jego  ustna odpowiedz:

"Od 1990 roku przepowiadalem ze ktoregos razu znajda sie zdesperowani i
oczytani Zydzi ktorzy w koncu wytkna nam to co stoi czarne na bialym od 50 lat
w kazdej wiekszej publicznej bibliotece w USA a zapewne i w Nowej Zelandii ze
polska policja a takze polscy strazacy brali udzial w tlumieniu warszawskiej
ruchawki, tlumienia pozarow w gettcie i deportacji Zydow do Treblinki  a potem
do Majdanka, Trawnik, Poniatowej i jeszcze dalej gdzie Niemcom byla potrzebna
darmowa sila robocza.  Rowniez przepowiadalem ze Zydzi przestana potakiwac
Polakom ze Ukraincy tlumili powstanie, bo z Raoprtu Stroopa wynika jasno ze
oddzial z Trawnik (okreslani mianem "Askaris"  czyli murzynska policja w
niemieckich koloniach)  byl tak beznadziejny i niepewny ze Stroop uzywal go
tylko do strazy na zewnatrz muru i to tylko w dzien.  W tym oddziale bylo
okolo 20% Ukraincow i okolo 10% Polakow."

Tyle na ten temat DR. Dragan.

Ja ze swego boku moge stwierdzic ze rzeczywiscie Dr. Dragan nie raz "tlukl" ze
Zydzi w koncu dobiora sie do nas z Raportem Stroop'a.  I coz widzimy ponizej.
Autor z czysto polskim nazwiskiem Kobus i czysto zydowska dusza (tak jak moich
25% kologow i kolezanek w mojej jedenastolatce w Lodzi) porzadnie dobiera sie
nam do skory wyliczajc nam polskich policjantow, a perfidnie zapominajac o
udziale setek polskich strazakow, po stronie Niemcow.

No i coz, zaprzeczyc mu nie mozna ze setki umundurowanych Polakow pomagaly
hitlerowcom w tlumieniu akcji w Gettcie.  Na pierwszy rzut oka to jest wszak o
tysiac razy gorsze od dzieci rzekomo krecacych sie na karuzeli  W  POBLIZU
getta.

A gdzie jest prawda???

Otoz wyrafinowany Kobus nie przez przypadek ominal udzial polskich strazakow
pomagajacych hitlerowcom w czasie pacyfikacji i deportacji getta.  Oczywiscie
strazacy nie mogli sikawkami zabijac Zydow, nawet gdyby w pompach byla
swiecona woda  ('boi sie jak Zyd swieconej wody').

Zydowska martyrologia twierdzi ze Hitlerowcy podpalali getto po to by zywcem
palic Zydow.  Gdyby tak bylo nie wolali by do pomocy polskich stazakow z
sikawkami i z woda (nie swiecona! bo rzekomo byli poganami).

To nie Niemcy palili getto.  To mlodzi, glownie komunizujacy Zydzi, podpalali
zydowskie kamienice po to by moc je szabrowac lub prowadzic ladniejszym
jezykiem ostantnia ekspropriacje na cele organizacji.

Pisalam juz na ten temat poprzednio.  Prosze wydziabac na sciepie pod
kategoria SENDER 'polin' i w mych listach mozecie sobie docztytac reszte.

Tak ja Dr. Dragan jestem rowniez zajeta, ci co sie naprawde tym ciekawia
napewno znajda moj dopis.

Z Powazaniem,  Polina Borowska

PS Powstania w warszawskim gettcie nie mozna nawet nazwac buntem, co najwyzej
ruchawka kilkudziesieciu aktywistow (maksimum 200) ktorzy po raz ostatni
pragneli wykorzystac ostatnuia okazje aby sie dorobic na swoich rodakach.

PS prosze to wyslac do NOP-u


>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Dydaktyka Messrs. Glowackiego i Rybaka
> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:36:22 +0000
> From: "R. Antoszewski" 
> Reply-To: Discussion of Polish Culture list
>      
> To: POLAND-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>
> > Date:          Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:15:05 -0700
> > From:                     Andrew Kobos 
>
> > Mam przed soba wydanie fotograficzne (facsimile) Raportu Stroopa.
> > opieczetowane przez Archiwum Glownej Komisji Badania Zbrodni Niem. w
> > Polsce Dok. N. 22/2023 Inw. 4516.
>
> To bardzo interesujace, co Pan pisze.
> A jak mozna by sie z tym dokumentem zapoznac?
> (ew. odpowiedz na priv., prosze)
>
> I jeszcze
>
> > Znajduje tam:
> > Na str. 7 "Einsatzkrafte" - Sily uzyte
> > figuruje wsrod Ordnugspolizei:
> > poln. Polizei [polska policja]     4/363   [4 oficerow/363 szeregowych]
>
> A jakie liczby figuruja przy innych narodowosciach, czy mozna cos na
> ten temat tam sie doszukac?
>
> Ostatnio przeczytalem 'Hitler's willing executioners' napisana przez
> D. J. Goldhagena.
> Ciekaw jestem, czy P-Listowicze maja jakas opinie o tej ksiazce, i
> jaka.
>
> Pozdrawiam 'wsiech pliennych i Was wojennych' -
>
> RA
>
> -------------
> Laingholm, Titirangi, Auckland, New Zealand
> tel/fax [64] [9] 817 3690; mobile: 025 284 7207
> e-mail: antora@xtra.co.nz  OR antora@ihug.co.nz
> homepage: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~antora



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:58 EST 1999
Article: 192954 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: polska policja w gettcie >>Fwd: Dydaktyka Messrs. Glowackiego i    Rybaka
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 17:36:59 -0500
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Wwrobel22@aol.com wrote:

Niech bedzie pochwalony JC!

Dostalam ten list z usilna prosba by Dr. Dragan ze Stamfordu, jako specjalisty
od rzekomego powstania w gettcie i aby na niego odpowiedzial.  Rozmawialam z
nim, powiedzial ze jest zawalony praca zawodowa i naukowa i nie bedzie w
stanie odpowiedziec.  Oto jego  ustna odpowiedz:

"Od 1990 roku przepowiadalem ze ktoregos razu znajda sie zdesperowani i
oczytani Zydzi ktorzy w koncu wytkna nam to co stoi czarne na bialym od 50 lat
w kazdej wiekszej publicznej bibliotece w USA a zapewne i w Nowej Zelandii ze
polska policja a takze polscy strazacy brali udzial w tlumieniu warszawskiej
ruchawki, tlumienia pozarow w gettcie i deportacji Zydow do Treblinki  a potem
do Majdanka, Trawnik, Poniatowej i jeszcze dalej gdzie Niemcom byla potrzebna
darmowa sila robocza.  Rowniez przepowiadalem ze Zydzi przestana potakiwac
Polakom ze Ukraincy tlumili powstanie, bo z Raoprtu Stroopa wynika jasno ze
oddzial z Trawnik (okreslani mianem "Askaris"  czyli murzynska policja w
niemieckich koloniach)  byl tak beznadziejny i niepewny ze Stroop uzywal go
tylko do strazy na zewnatrz muru i to tylko w dzien.  W tym oddziale bylo
okolo 20% Ukraincow i okolo 10% Polakow."

Tyle na ten temat DR. Dragan.

Ja ze swego boku moge stwierdzic ze rzeczywiscie Dr. Dragan nie raz "tlukl" ze
Zydzi w koncu dobiora sie do nas z Raportem Stroop'a.  I coz widzimy ponizej.
Autor z czysto polskim nazwiskiem Kobus i czysto zydowska dusza (tak jak moich
25% kologow i kolezanek w mojej jedenastolatce w Lodzi) porzadnie dobiera sie
nam do skory wyliczajc nam polskich policjantow, a perfidnie zapominajac o
udziale setek polskich strazakow, po stronie Niemcow.

No i coz, zaprzeczyc mu nie mozna ze setki umundurowanych Polakow pomagaly
hitlerowcom w tlumieniu akcji w Gettcie.  Na pierwszy rzut oka to jest wszak o
tysiac razy gorsze od dzieci rzekomo krecacych sie na karuzeli  W  POBLIZU
getta.

A gdzie jest prawda???

Otoz wyrafinowany Kobus nie przez przypadek ominal udzial polskich strazakow
pomagajacych hitlerowcom w czasie pacyfikacji i deportacji getta.  Oczywiscie
strazacy nie mogli sikawkami zabijac Zydow, nawet gdyby w pompach byla
swiecona woda  ('boi sie jak Zyd swieconej wody').

Zydowska martyrologia twierdzi ze Hitlerowcy podpalali getto po to by zywcem
palic Zydow.  Gdyby tak bylo nie wolali by do pomocy polskich stazakow z
sikawkami i z woda (nie swiecona! bo rzekomo byli poganami).

To nie Niemcy palili getto.  To mlodzi, glownie komunizujacy Zydzi, podpalali
zydowskie kamienice po to by moc je szabrowac lub prowadzic ladniejszym
jezykiem ostantnia ekspropriacje na cele organizacji.

Pisalam juz na ten temat poprzednio.  Prosze wydziabac na sciepie pod
kategoria SENDER 'polin' i w mych listach mozecie sobie docztytac reszte.

Tak ja Dr. Dragan jestem rowniez zajeta, ci co sie naprawde tym ciekawia
napewno znajda moj dopis.

Z Powazaniem,  Polina Borowska

PS Powstania w warszawskim gettcie nie mozna nawet nazwac buntem, co najwyzej
ruchawka kilkudziesieciu aktywistow (maksimum 200) ktorzy po raz ostatni
pragneli wykorzystac ostatnuia okazje aby sie dorobic na swoich rodakach.

PS prosze to wyslac do NOP-u


>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Dydaktyka Messrs. Glowackiego i Rybaka
> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:36:22 +0000
> From: "R. Antoszewski" 
> Reply-To: Discussion of Polish Culture list
>      
> To: POLAND-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
>
> > Date:          Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:15:05 -0700
> > From:                     Andrew Kobos 
>
> > Mam przed soba wydanie fotograficzne (facsimile) Raportu Stroopa.
> > opieczetowane przez Archiwum Glownej Komisji Badania Zbrodni Niem. w
> > Polsce Dok. N. 22/2023 Inw. 4516.
>
> To bardzo interesujace, co Pan pisze.
> A jak mozna by sie z tym dokumentem zapoznac?
> (ew. odpowiedz na priv., prosze)
>
> I jeszcze
>
> > Znajduje tam:
> > Na str. 7 "Einsatzkrafte" - Sily uzyte
> > figuruje wsrod Ordnugspolizei:
> > poln. Polizei [polska policja]     4/363   [4 oficerow/363 szeregowych]
>
> A jakie liczby figuruja przy innych narodowosciach, czy mozna cos na
> ten temat tam sie doszukac?
>
> Ostatnio przeczytalem 'Hitler's willing executioners' napisana przez
> D. J. Goldhagena.
> Ciekaw jestem, czy P-Listowicze maja jakas opinie o tej ksiazce, i
> jaka.
>
> Pozdrawiam 'wsiech pliennych i Was wojennych' -
>
> RA
>
> -------------
> Laingholm, Titirangi, Auckland, New Zealand
> tel/fax [64] [9] 817 3690; mobile: 025 284 7207
> e-mail: antora@xtra.co.nz  OR antora@ihug.co.nz
> homepage: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~antora



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:59 EST 1999
Article: 192984 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: More ??? than answers >>>Mass graves of Belzec Camp
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:28:41 -0500
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With relish and vidictivness  ... and no comments Mr. Mc VAy posted below
interim conclusions of archeological examination of the Belzec camp conducted
by the Archeology Department of Torun University in Poland.

Undoubtedly, the no comment posture was to:

1) impress the lay readers unacustomed with examination of mass graves with a
gory res ipsa loquitur

2) to cover up the exterminationist fiasco, namely the failure to document
industrial mass murder of 48,000,000 or 2,500,000 or 1.500,000 or even mere
600,000 Jews - the smallest figure cited several years after the Nuremberg
trial and until today.

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND of the  Belzec investigation:

1) The Belzec study was started in fall of 1997 after months of intensive
campaing on the internet carried by the Mr. Joseph Pawlikowski of the Polish
Historical Society under the slogan "No Bones No Holocaust."  This slogan was
refering to exhumation of Christian and Polish victims of the Bolshevism and
Nazizm at Katyn, Vynnytsa, Treblinka, Palmiry, Bykivniam, Kuropaty, Kharkiv
and Miednoje while there was an absence of any exhumations of about 3-4
million Jewish victims the Nazi did not have time to cremate.

2) As soon as the Polish Historical Society learned about the begining of the
study ( the Polish leader of the study studied mass graves of Polish POWs at
Kharkiv with help of the wartime air photos discovered by the PHS), along
with the Institute of Radical Nationalism, reporters were sent to Belzec, but
learned very little or nothing about the results.  Even photography by the
reporter was forbidden at the location at Belzec during that study.

That seemed strange that such archeological study was avoiding publicity and
was conduted in secrecy or semi-secrecy.

3) When the Nazis discovered mass graves of Polish officer corps, POWs at
Katyn they immidiately invited Allied observers and the International Red
Cross to overlook the exhumations.   Western Allies refused to come as well
as the International Red Cross.  One forced to admitt that the Nazis were
honest about their investigation or at least open.  Eventually they forced
high rank POW Allied officers to observe the exhumations along with the
Polish Red Cross.  These indivuduals surrvived the alleged Nazi deadly camps
and or "death camps" and reported about the exhumations after the war.

4) considering the above example, Polish authorities should invite Holocaust
Revisionist to observe the study.  Unfortunately, revisionists were
effectively EXCLUDED from this study.  This exclusion and the secrecy cast a
long shadow on veracity of its reports.

5)  Strangely, the full report is not availble to the USHMM as well as to
Nizkor an anti-Revisionist web site, according to the recent Mr Mc Vay email
to Polina Borowska

PROJECTED SIZE OF THE GRAVES;

1) The story of Belzec is unclear from the exterminationist point of view.
Allegedly only one individual Mr. Reder, survived the camp and he prepared in
Polish a report on this camp for the Nuremberg trial.  Alleged Pole (actually
a Polish Jew) Jan Karski was allegedly there but prof Yehuda Bauer disclosed
it was not so and David Engle reported that his brother was in a Jewish
policeman in Nazi service in Eastern Poland.

An alleged escapee from the camp, claimed in Sweden in July 1944 that 10,000
Jews were electrocuted everyhour on the hour and his eyewitness account was
widely publicized by the Allies and included in several books and official
reports.

During the past decades it is widely believed that 600,000 Jews were gassed
burried and in late 1943 exhumed and cremated to cover up the terrible crime.

2) Philo-Germanic Holocaust revisionists e.g. E. Zundel claim that Belzec was
a common or harmless transit camp.

Neutral Holocaust revisionists, such as those represented by the  Poles,
Arabs and Libertarian Americans, claim that Belzec, like the Treblinka II for
the Jews, was a deadly de-golding camp while the factor of 'transit' was of
secondary importance.

Germany never recovered from the emptying of her treausry from the gold by
the Allies during the WW I. During the WW II, the gold was required to
purchase the vital catalyst platinum from So. Africa via Sweden or
Switzerland.  Because JEwish boycots destroyed German foreign trade and
peaceful aquisition of gold, Nazis developed three phase extraction process
of this metal from the Jews in the occupied territories.

Initially they extracted via war contributions forced by burning of
synagogues.

Secondly, they herded Jews into ghettos restricting foodstuffs unless they
were paid with gold via gray market.

Thirdly they developed the Reinhard Action, Rhinehard being the Minister of
Finance which ment de-golding of Jews from their sewn in gold in clothing
during compulsory delousing bath at the transit camps Chelmno Belzec,
Sobibor, Treblinka.

While being degolded, the Jews were also selected for work and sent to
concentration camps, unfit to work sent to depopulated from the Soviet Jews
Byelorussia (Minsk, Pinsk etc), while the dead on arrival were buried at the
camps along with those almost dead who were euthanized by Jewish
prisoners-doctors.

Consequently, the Treblinka II wartime air photos show mass grave for about
4,000 Jews (400sq meters large).  Belzec and Sobior air photos were taken at
such time that the mass graves were not visualized.  Treblinka I for the
Poles shows mass graves for about 10,000 individuals.

Considering above and the fact that about 600,000 mostly Gallician Jews went
through Belzec, it is prudent to project that mass graves at that camp should
contain at least 2,500 to 3,000 cadavers and measure about 250-300 square
meters


ANALYSIS OF THE REPORT

Only snippets of the reports are available.

The alleged surface of the discovered 33 mass graves available from the Mc
Vay posting is as follows in meters

1- 40x11
2- 15x5
3- 20x15
4- 20x8
5- 35x15
6- 33x14
7- 30x14
8- 30x14
9- 10x1
10- 25x20
11- 11x9
12- about 30x6
13- 5x5
14- 60x30
15- 12x7
16- 20x8
17- 16x8
18- 15x10
19- 14x8
20- 30x10
21- 7x
22- about 40x6
23- 10x7
24 - not given
25 - 14x8
26- 9x9
27- 10x4
28- 6x6
29- 30x10
30- 10x4
31- 10x6
32- 15x5
33- 5x5

In my aritmetic is correct the total surface of these mass graves adds to
about 7,187 square meters.


QUESTIONABLE DEPTH OF THE GRAVES:

Report cites average depth of about six meters which seems unrealistic.  Mass
graves are never or almost never dug to more then two meters because that
would require casings of the walls which otherwise would tend to collapse on
the grave diggers and those who bury the victims.  While making mass graves
there is always a factor of urgency, and  almost never scarcity of land.

Perhaps the present great depth is due to the fact that at some time after
the war, supposition considered by the authors of this report.  I can add
that this extra layer of soil was added most likely to prevent local peasants
>from scavenging  for gold among the corpses.

QUESTIONABLE  NUMBER AND SIZE   OF  THE GRAVES

The number of the graves and their size borders on ridiculous and contradicts
the orthodox holocaustian history of this installation that there were a few
huge mass graves all emptied of their content which was thoroughly cremated.

I am too tired to continue -  I am writing for about an hour know  ... will
conlcude on some other day

Polina Borowska

PS; WW, please email it to Inst. of Radical Ntl.



Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:

> Archive/File:
> camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec/Archeological_Report/Tregenza_II.98
> Last-Modified: 1999/08/09
>
> "II. LOCATION/INVESTIGATION OF MASS GRAVES
> October 1997
>
> "Grave No. 1. Located only 5 m. S of BM 2007. At 3.90 m. below
> ground level a layer of dark grey (burnt) sand was found in which
> were mixed pieces of carbonized wood and fragments of human bones
> - among them an incisor tooth. This was the first indication of
> the
>
>                                                          [Page 14]
>
> "presence of a mass grave. Beneath this deep layer lay a several
> centimetres thick layer of foul-smelling water under which were
> found unburnt corpses compressed by the weight of soil to a layer
> only 20 cm thick. The drill core brought to the surface putrid
> pieces of human remains, including pieces of skull with skin and
> tufts of hair still attached, and unidentifiable lumps of greyish,
> fatty human tissue. The bottom of the grave was lined with a layer
> of evil smelling black (i.e. burnt) human fat, resembling black
> soap. As no evidence of fabric was brought to the surface, it may
> be assumed that the corpses are naked. The state of preservation
> of the corpses is due to the fact that they lay virtually
> hermetically sealed between the layer of water above, the layer of
> solidified fat below, underneath which the natural, dry and
> compressed sand through which no air could penetrate, resulted in
> their partial mummification. The dimensions of Grave No. 1 were
> determined as 40 m. x 11 m. and over 5 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 2. A small grave 70 m. E of BM 2007 and close to the S
> fence, contained at the depth of only 30 cm. a layer of pieces of
> carbonized wood beneath which at depth 1.50 m. there was a layer
> of unburnt human corpses. Dimensions of the grave: l5 m. x 5 m. x
> 2 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 3. This was the first mass grave the location of which
> was positively identified from a Luftwaffe aerial photograph taken
> in 1944, in which it appears as a T-shaped white patch and seems
> to be the biggest grave in the camp.[1] The presence of graves in
> this part of the camp was also discernible at ground level by soil
> subsidence and different vegetation on the areas of subsidence.
> Upon investigation, however, it was found that the T-shape
> consisted of three separate graves (labelled 3, 5 and 6 on Fig. 4)
> with Grave No. 3 forming the stem of the 'T'. It measured 20 m. x
> 15 m. and is at least 5 m. deep.[2] After drilling through a 4.90
> m. deep layer of dark grey sand mixed with pieces of carbonized
> wood and fragments of burnt human bones, a foul odour was
> released. The drill core brought to the surface pieces of skulls
> with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human
> fat, and fragments of unburnt human bones. The bottom layer
> consisted of putrid, waxy human fat.
>
> "Grave No. 4. Located immediately adjacent to the N side of BM
> 2007, measures 20 m. x 8 m. and is 5 m. deep. At depth 1.20 m.,
> burnt pieces of human bones were found. Beneath this, a layer of
> water signalled the presence of corpses at the next level. From
> below the water layer the drill core brought to the surface pieces
> of unburnt human bones, including pieces of skulls with skin and
> hair still adhering and lumps of foul smelling greasy fat,
> indicating the presence of unburnt corpses
>
> "Grave No. 5. Formed the left-hand bar of the T-shaped arrangement
> of graves 3, 5 and 6 (see Fig. 4), in which were found pieces of
> burnt human bones in a layer 2.60 m. - 3.80 m. deep. Near the W
> end of the grave the bones were so densely packed together that
> the drill could not penetrate further. Dimensions: 35 m. x 15 m.
> and at least 5 m. deep.
>
> "Grave No. 6. Forms the right-hand bar of the T-shaped arrangement
> of graves and measures 33 m. x 14 m. and is more than 5 m. deep.
> At depth 0.4 m. - 2.60 m. there is a layer of carbonized wood and
> fragments of burnt human bones. At the E end of the grave the
> ground is covered with grey sand containing a mixture of crushed
> pieces of burnt and unburnt pieces of human bones. A few silver
> birch trees stand between Graves 5 and 6.
>
> "Additional test soundings were made in the vicinity of the four
> symbolic tombs near the E fence in an area where the Luftwaffe
> aerial photograph also indicated the presence of mass
>
>      "Footnotes
>
>      "[1] Air Photo Library, National Archives, Washington DC, USA.
>      Film Roll No.: GX 8095 33 SK, exposure 155, dated 15 May
>      1944.
>
>      "[2] It was because several of the mass graves located and
>      investigated in October 1997 were found to be deeper than 5
>      m. that the length of the drills in the 1998 investigation
>      was increased from 5 m. to 6 m.
>
>                                                          [Page 15]
>
> "graves. The location of three graves was confirmed in the area of
> symbolic tombs 1, 3) and 4. Their dimensions and depths were not
> determined at this time." (Tregenza, pp. 13-15)
>
>                              Work Cited
>
> Tregenza, Michael. Report on the Archeological Investigation at the
>    Site of the Former NAZI Extermination Camp in Belzec, Poland, 1997-98.
>    Lublin, 1998
>
> --
> The Nizkor Project:    An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                           Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html
>        "What I say does not make it true." Matt Giwer, In his cups.
>                      http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:59 EST 1999
Article: 193090 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
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Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares    aboutNuremberg    Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian    churches by    Nazis
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"Lech K. Lesiak" wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, polin wrote:
>
> > Todays Holocaust revisionists are the dissidents of the soviet Union
>
> So when can we expect the revisionist version of 'Gulag Archipelago'?  I
> have gone to the trouble of reading some of the revisionist literature,
> and it's specious tripe.  The logic and evidence it uses would convince
> only those incapable of reasoned thought.
>
> Czesc,
> Leszek

Dear Leszek,

Revisonist Archipelago Gulag has been published about firve years ago.  It
is a comprehensive encyclopedia of revisionism with some errors as in all
encyclopedias.  Its title was Grundlagen fur Zeitgeschichte.

It was published in Germany in such a way as to not state conclusions (e.g.
that the WW II 6,000,000 Jews dead is a great exaggeration and no sentence
saying that the gas chambers were a hoax could be found in this
publication.  Just facts.  The conclusions had to be drawn by the reader.

As with Solzhenitsyn, the publisher got arrested, large portion of the
printed Grundlagen were seized by the government and burned ala  Goebbes
style or cremated ala Auschwitz style.  Those defiant authors who did not
use pseudonyms got charged and were tried as Herbert Tiedmann and the
publisher and heavily fined.

Mind you, they did not state any conlusions just presented mostly Jewish
data, such as those from the Princeton's prof Arno Meyer's book and Prof R.
Hilbergs.  If they would draw conslusions they would be still rooting in
Germanys high security prisons.

The Grundlagen are almost completely translated into English and perhaps are
presently in print.  You might like or dislike to know that there is an
essential input in this encyclopedia from the Polish Historical Society.

But do not hold the breath for seeing this revisonist Archipelago dispelling
Thousand Islands of Lies.  Your Holocaustianity prevents you from looking at
facts rationally.  It is still many years before mainstream scholars given
dispensation from grantors and politicians will do the same to The Holocaust
what prof Yehuda Bauer did to the human-fat-soap story and the A-B's
4,000,000 lie.

I think Revisionism will not be accepted until the Internet generation will
get into positions of power namely about 15-20 years from now.

With hopes that I did not stir your Holocaustian anxiety too much,
remains respectfully yours

Polina Borowska.

PS  Panie Leszku, prosze nie grac Leszka i dac nam znac jak mieli  na
nazwiska panscy dziadkowie.


As to be e



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:09:59 EST 1999
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: miotacze ognia w gettcie >>polska policja w gettcie >>Fwd: Dydaktyka    Messrs. Glowackiego i    Rybaka
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NPJC!
WP Wieslawie @nospam,

Pan ma swieta racje ze widzial miotacze ognia w gettcie i jak hitlerowcy
podpalali nimi domy.  Ja sama je widzialam, nie tylko na zdjeciach
(fotosach) ale rowniez na filmie o Powstaniu w warszawskim gettcie jak
rowniez popalone "domy" w studium Filmow Fabularynych na obrzezach Parku
Poniatowskiego w Lodzi.  Byly to tylko frontony makiet domow getta,
zrobione z drzewa.

Natomiast miotaczy ognia w albumie Stroopa nie widac.  Widac natomiast
plonace domy i na drugim planie polskich strazakow. Dwa chyba zdjecia z
kolekcji okolo 30tu pokazuja jedno lekkie polowe dzialo jak ostrzeliwuje
jakas kamienice, ktora jednakze od wybuchow sie NIE zapalila.  Jest
rowniez zdjecie z duzym karabinem maszynowym chyba przeciwlotniczym  na
wysokim trojnogu.

Zamiast wypisywac to co panu sie zdaje na sciepie radze pojsc do
najblizszej biblioteki w panskiej Szwecji i obejrzec te zdjecia z
plonacego getta.

Na jednym z nich na dalszym planie widac hitlerowcow siedzacych na
krzeslach meblowych na jezdni.   Tak oni to walczyli z Dr. Edelmanem,
siedzac na krzeslach na jezdni i chodniku.

Na okolo 2,000 NIemcow i okolo 1,000 Polakow bioracych udzial w
zwalczaniu "Powstania" zginelo chyba okolo poltora tuzina niemcow i
jeden lub dwu Polakow. w przeciagu szesciu tygodni.

Ciekawa jestem ilu  z 3,000 warszawiakow obecnie podlega wypadkom w
podobnym okresie czasu.  Jesli wlaczyc do tego skrobanki to napewno
naliczy sie okolo 20-30 smiertelnych wypadkow.

Polina

PS>  A dlaczego Pan siedzi w Szwecji zamiast w Izraelu??? Co to za
patriotyzm???  A dlaczego sie nie udziela na soc.culture.jewish???

"wieslaw_no@spam.algonet.se" wrote:

> polin wrote:
>
> Zapewne listy Dragana i Wrobla sa wiekszym swiadectwem
> niz zyjacych w Polsce Zydow i Polakow no i samego Marka Edelmana.
>
> Ale co oni wiedza. Polina i Dragan dwoje Ukraincow no i
> perelka Wrobel wie lepiej - jak bylo w warszawskim Gettcie.
>
> W odpowiedzi na bzdury o polskich strazakach.
>
> Sa archiwalne zdjecia pokazujace Niemiecki odzialy z miotaczami
> ognia  - tak samo wiec jak ze strazakami. Po co brac miotacze ognia
> jak sie nie chcailo podpalac a tylko gasic. Po co brac miotacze
> ognia skoro domy byly podpalane przez Zydow. ?? Czy Niemcy chcieli
> pomoc Zydom w paleniu Getta...
>
> Czyli mamy dalszy ciag dialalnosci wybitnego ciemnogordzianina
> Wrobla we flircie z rewizjonistami.
>
> Wieslaw



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:10:00 EST 1999
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From: polin 
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Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares       aboutNuremberg    Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian    churches by       Nazis
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Panie Wieslawie,

Widocznie czyta pan tylko moje listy na tematy zydowsko-rewizjonistyczne.

W tym miesiacu pisalam:

1) ze glod na Ukrainie wywolany Lazarem Kaganowiczem, jest
najprawdopodobniej przesadzony, a tych Ukrainskich 7,000,000 wymyslono
dopiero po Norymbergu i to po to by przelicytowac Zydow.

2) ze ukrainskie mordy na Polakach na Kresach sa grubo przesadzone
holokostomanicznymi wymyslami, i wyjsnialam ze polskie ofiary na Kresach
sa wynikiem glupiej polityki polskiego rzaduy w Londynie tzn wszystkie
akcje robi tam gdzie nie ma ludnosci polskiej by niemcy na nas nie robili
retorsji ... a robili je na Litwinach, bialorus, i ukraincach.

3) Ze masoni Kosciuszko i Pulawski dali sie zwerbowac  do Ameryki nie z
idealizmu wolnosci i rownosci i amerykanskiego patriotyzmu a dla pieniadze
francuskiej masonerii, wscieklej ze Anglia odbila im Kanade.

4) ze glupich to chyba powinno sie trzymac w zlotej klatce bo jak sie da
im wolnosc to traca zycie tak jak moje kroliki.  Kroliki mialy tyle
wspolnego z Zydami ze dostalam je od sasiadow Zydow w Queens'ie dzielnicy
NYC.

5) Ze JOhn Kennedy mial wypadek samolotowy prawdopodobnie dlatego ze na
samolocie dali sobie cugu z kokainka by przybyc w dobrym humorze na
wesele.  Gdyby tak nie bylo slyszelibysmy ze ich krew nie zawierala
zadnych narkotykow bo w stanie Mass tylko po to robi sie w takich
wypadkaach sekcje zwolk

6) ze Jezus nie byl Zydem bo jego ojciec jest beznarodosciowy a "matka"
byla tylko naczyniem bo byl to przypadek dzieworodztwa.

O innych tematach niech sie pan doksztalci czytajac moje listy

Polina



"wieslaw_no@spam_algonet.se" wrote:

> polin wrote:
> [...]
>
> Jak sie czuje to Pani "Gestapo und SS" ktore wezwalo do pomocy
> polskich starzakow po tym jak przypadkiem (miotaczem ognia)
> zapruszyli ogien w Gettcie...:))A moze mieli je do gaszenia ?
>
> Zauwazylem ze jak ktos Pani przylozy po angieslku przeskakuje
> Pani na polski, jak po polsku spowrotem przeskosk na angielski..:))
>
> Zaciekawil mnie ten Pani rewizionizm.
> Z definicji - rewizja histori.
>
> Jak dotad jednak widze ze rwiduje Pani tylko historje Zydow.
> Czy doczekamy sie jednak jakis ciekawych prac na temat histori
>
> Polskiego Holocaustu ? Obwinia sie wszak Niemcow i Ukraincow
> o bestialskie mordy na Polakach. Czy tez ma Pani dylemat bo wystepuja
> tu tez Zydzi, rewidujac historje Polskiego Holocaustu - zupelnie
> przypadkiem moze by Pani uniwinnila paru z nich, a to by przeciez bylo
> nie wybaczalne..:))))
>
> Czy wogole rewizjonizm w Pani wydaniu zajmuje sie czyms innym
> niz rewizja histori Zydow i malownaiem na bialo Niemcow..:))
>
> Widze oczami wyobrazni te dziewice przebrane w mundury SS,
> opiekujace sie rannymi i gaszace pozary w Getcie..:)) rozdajace
> paczki z zywnoscia w Oswiecimiu. Pomagajace karmiocym matkom
> ubrane w czapeczki czerwonego krzyza.
>
> Jakis cenny komentarz.. bardzo prosze.
>
> Zauwazylem z Pani listow ze pyta Pani czesto ludzi o ich
> narodowosc - poprzednie nazwisko. Wynika z tego ze traktuje
> Pani ich wypowiedzi w zaleznosci od narodowosci.
>
> Pozwoli Pani ze zapytam wiec Pania :
> Czy nie ma Pani przpadkiem po tatusiu na nazwisko Herman-Goring ?
> Bylbym wdzieczny za odpowiedz.
>
> Moc pozdrowien sle
> Wieslaw.
>
> --
> }} I'm anti-racist and I'm proud of it {{



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:10:00 EST 1999
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
Subject: Lwow, Wilno i Wroclaw
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Niech bedzie pochwalony Jezus Chrystus!

Pan Wieslaw nospam ze Szwecji sprowokowal mnie do czestszego pisania na
rewizjoniostyczne tematy nie zwiazane z ich holokostami tego z pierwszej
i drugiej wojny swiatowej.

A wiec chce zwrocic uwage, ze my Polacy uwazamy Lwow za rdzennie polskie
miasto poniewaz od czterystu wiekow w nim mieszkalismy i tworzylismy w
nim nasza kulture.  To ze ukrainski ksiaze Danylo nazwal ten grod
imieniem swego syna Lwa to sie nie liczy.

Podobnie ma sie sprawa z Wilnem.  Wszak w nim bylo nieomal 90 lub wiecej
procent Polakow.  To ze Wilno jest na litewskiej ziemi to sie nie liczy,
bo my tam siedzimy od kilkuset stuleci.

Niby to wszystko ladnie i mozna sie z tym zgodzic lecz w takim razie
prosze mi powiedziec dlaczego my Polacy nazywamy Wroclaw odwiecznym
polskim miastem.

Zgoda ze slowianie go zalozyli.  Ale wszak przez 700 lat mieszkali w nim
tylko Niemcy z wyjatkiem ostatniego polwiecza gdzie znajdujemy okolo 45%
Polakow, 45% Zydow z polskimi nazwiskami troche Ukraincow i Niemcow.

I niemcy tworzyli we wroclawiu niemiecka kulture.  Dlaczego to jest wiec
to nie jest niemieckie  miasto jesli lwow i wilno sa polskimi

Poniewaz narodowcy i sciepowerzy okrzykneli mnie jak glupia prosze o
odpowiedz.

polglowek Polina



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:10:00 EST 1999
Article: 193358 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in       Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp
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PONIECKA wrote:

> "Polina Borowska" wrote:
>
> >Below I will argue if and were you are wrong
>
> Why do you keep posting these questions on soc.culture.polish? If and when I
> have time, maybe I'll respond, but only on the NG alt.revisionism.
>
> PONIECKA

The reasons are simple and multiple

Both the First World War 'holocaust' of the 'six million Jews and 800,000 Jewish
children' and the WW II "Holocaust' of 6,000,000 took place in Poland and
Ukraine

Revisionsism of these holocausts is part of Polish life with Dr. Ratajczak from
the University of Opole being the first revisionist ("dissident') being tried
for this "heresy", Gallileo times back again and Volodymyr Katylnyckyj, 43,
victim of Polyo, assasinated in Kyiv two years ago for publicizing the Soviet
hoax of the Babi Yar.

I wonder when our Pope will come with a statement condemning revisionists.

Revisonism is a gene which thanks to Pat Buchanan and persistent work  and
sacrifices of handfull of individuals commited to the truth and not
martyrological mythology will not go back into bottle.

In 1996, Eli Zborowski the editor of the Martyrs and Resistance the official
publication of the WW II Holocaust survivors called the end of this century as
the "era of revisionism'

Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR

Polina




From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:10:01 EST 1999
Article: 193362 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
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Subject: Re: miotacze ognia w gettcie???? >>polska policja w gettcie >>Fwd:    Dydaktyka    Messrs. Glowackiego i    Rybaka
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"wieslaw_no_spam@algonet.se" wrote:

> A teraz moze wybrane wyjatki - z ktorych kojazeniem
> Polina miala takie trudnosci. Moze by szanowna Polina
> skomentowala tylko te male kawalki.

Jesli ktos zupelne glupoty i wulgarnosci wypisuje jak Rwarr to nie ma mu co odpowiadac.  Pan wieslaw
wycina slowa oponenta ale jego argumenty sa na pol rozsadne wiec warto mu odpowiedziec

>
>
> Wieslaw
> ****************
>
> Total: 36/2054 - poleglych na bioracych udzial.

Pomylka, te cyfry nie oznaczaja poleglych tylko ilosc zolnierzy i oficerow bioracych udzial.  Lista
niemieckich ofiar jest na pierwszych dwu stronach.

>
>
> [Translator's note: This obviously means; 36 officers, 2054 men]
>
> [...]
> When we invaded the Ghetto for the first time, the Jews and the Polish bandits
> ==============================================================================
> succeeded in repelling the participating units, including tanks and armored cars,
> =================================================================================
>

Jesli w raporcie sa takie slowa prosze pamietac ze general nie bedzie pisal ze to byla mala policyjna
akcja a celem albumu bylo wytworzenie legendy o ofiarnosci niemieckiego zolnierza i podlosci zydow.

>
> ****************
> Z jakiego powodu zanim jakiekolwiek walki w Getcie sie zaczely Niemcy wkroczyli
> odrazu z czolgami i opancerzonymi samochodami ? Dla higieny ?

Wyjasnilam powyzej ze to przesada.  Pierwsza rzecz skad Stroop w Wawie mial by czolgi kiedy front byl
kolo Kurska 1500 km na wschod i tam byly one potrzebne.  Jesli popatrzec na zdjecia to Askaris
(Rosjanie, Polacy i Ukraincy z Trawnik) byli wyposarzeni w karabiny z 1919 roku i francuskie mundurow
plaszcze przefarbowane na czarno.  Stad ich nazywano czarnymi krukami.

>
> ****************
>
> [...]
> Late the first day we encountered rather heavy resistance, but it was quickly broken
> =====================================================================================
> by a special raiding party. In the course of further operations we succeeded in expelling
> the Jews from their prepared resistance bases, sniper holes, and the like, and in occupying
> during the 20 and 21 April the greater part of the so-called remainder of the Ghetto to such
> a degree that the resistance continued within these blocks could no longer be called considerable.
>
> **********
> Ani slowa o pozarach i starazakach.
> **********

A po co mial o nich pisac???  Album byl o dzielnosci Stroopa i zolnierzy SS nie polskich strazakow.  W
albumie sa dwa dramatyczne zdjecia Zydowki z dzieckiem na rekach w locie z czwartego pietra na
wyrzucony materac na chodnik.  "Biedna" Zydowka w kapcach !!! (majatek w tym czasie) niezawodnie
zginela z upadku.  Wyskakiwala bo "Powstancy" podpalili jej kamienice aby w zadymionej wodzie
przeszukiwac za zlotem mieszkania jeszcze nie objete pozarami.

Na tym zdjeciu hitlerowcy z przerazeniem patrza jak ta nieszczesna leci ku swej zapewne smierci na tym
materacu na chodniku.  Nikt z nich nie polewa kamienicy ani Zydowki miotaczami ognia.

Rzeczywistosc byla w tym czasie w gettcie straszna bez miotaczy ognia.  Po co wiec ja wyolbrzymiac???
Po to by z tego sie nasmiewali rewizjonisci???


>
> [...]
> The main Jewish battle group, mixed with Polish bandits, had already retired during the
> =======================================================================================
> first and second day to the so-called Muranowski Square. There, it was reinforced by a
> considerable number of Polish bandits. Its plan was to hold the Ghetto by every means
> in order to prevent us from invading it. The Jewish and Polish standards were hoisted
> at the top of a concrete building as a challenge to us. These two standards, however,
> were captured on the second day of the action by a special raiding party.
> SS Untersturmfuehrer Dehmke fell in this skirmish with the bandits;.. he was holding in his
> ===========================
> hand a hand-grenade which was hit by the enemy and exploded,
>
> **********************
> SS Dehmke prawdopodobnie byl w getcie dowodca batalionu starazkow albo czerwonego
> krzyza. Jak widac nie tzrymal on w reku krzyzowki siedzac na krzesle (jak to
> Polina ladnie napisala) ale granat. Po co ?
> **********************
> Dhemke walczyl i zginal dlatego ze niemcy musiel spacyfikowac okolo 200 "powstancow" (zgodnie z
> ksiazka dr Edelmana i Hanny Kral) na okolo wyselekcjonowanych okolo 60,000 mlodych i silnych Zydow z
> posrod okolo 600,000 mieszakncow getta w lipcu 1942 roku.

Panie Wieslawie!  A jaki procent Polakow bralo udzial w walce w 1944 roku???  A to byli ludzie z
posrod ktorych wyselekcjonowano mlodych, zdrowych silnych i zdolnych do pracy w Niemczech .. a wiec w
wiekszosci zostali sie starzy, niezdolni do pracy i dzieci!  Czy mam panu podpowiedziec ze okolo
30-40% ludnosci bralo udzial w w walce lub pomagalo w walce?

>

>
> [...]
> It must be stated that the Wehrmacht Engineers, too, executed the blowing up of dug-outs,
> ========================================================================================
> sewers, and concrete buildings with indefatigability and great devotion to duty.
> ===============================================================================
>
> [....]
> Only through the continuous and untiring work of all involved did we succeed in
> =================================================================================
> catching a total of 56,065 Jews whose extermination can be proved. To this should be
> ====================================================================================
> added the number of Jews who lost their lives in explosions or fires but whose numbers
> =======================================================================================
> could not be ascertained.
> =========================

I TUTAJ WKRACZAMY W NAJWIEKSZY ZNAK ZAPYTANIA W CALYM RAPORCIE

Wszystko w raporcie wydaje sie autentyczne z wyjatkiem tej jednej strony w ktorej rzekomo Stroop uzyl
slowa vernichtung ktore tlumacze zle przetlumaczyli na extermination a powinno byc na annihilation.

Tu nie miejsce na kryminalistyczna i mikorskopowa analize tej strony ktora jest nadrukowana na ciut
ciut innym papierze i ciut ciut inna maszyna do pisania.

Prosze tylko analitycznie pomyslec:  STroop mogl dokladnie wiedziec i udowodnic ilu Zydow deportowal
tzn 56,065 do Treblinki.

JEDNAKZE  ANALIZA WEWNETRZNA TEJ STRONY WSKAZUJE ZE  STROOP NIE BEDAC NIGDY W TEREBLINCE NIE MOGL MIEC
niezbitych  DOWODOW  ZAMORDOWANIA TEJ CZY INNEJ LICZBY ZYDOW.

Liczbe zamordowanych (rzekomo) zydow mogl tylko sporzadzic komendant Treblinki STangel.

Pozatym, Stroop nic nie wspomina o transporatch zydow to Poniatowej majdanka i Trawnik.  Tak ze wiec
tu cos nie gra z tym vernichtung unicestwieniem!

>
>
> [...]
> Permission was granted to the Polish police to pay to any Polish policeman who arrested
> ======================================================================================
> a Jew within the Aryan part of Warsaw one third of the cash in the Jew's possession.
> ====================================================================================
> This measure has already produced results.
> ==========================================
>
> The Polish population for the most part approved the measures taken against the Jews.

Stroopwskie samoschlebianie

>
> ====================================================================================
> Shortly before the end of the largescale operation, the Governor issued a special
> proclamation which he submitted to the undersigned for approval before publication, to
> the Polish population; in it he informed them of the reasons for destroying the former
> Jewish Ghetto by mentioning the assassinations carried out lately in the Warsaw area
> and the mass graves found in Catyn; at the same time they were asked to assist us in
> our fight against Communist agents and Jews (see enclosed poster).

Stroopowska generalska polityczna propaganda, mowa trawa ludzie grzyby.

"Destroying the former ghetto" naprawde oznaczalo zlikwidowanie getta przez deportacje.

Prosze nie zapominac ze niemcy nawet "recycled" zydowskie pierzyny w gettcie w Lodzi trzymajac je i
prujac w olbrzymim kosciele Mariackim na Zgierskiej.  Piora topiono na "plastyk" a z pierzyn  i
poduszek wyciagano schowane twarde ktore skrzetnie odnotowal Globocnik w raporcie do Himmlera z 4 XII
1943 roku nawet ilosc wiecznych pior z pozlacanymi stalowkami!!!

>
>
> The large-scale action was terminated on 16 May 1943 with the blowing up of the Warsaw
> =======================================================================================
> synagogue at 2015 hours.
> =======================

Just to make shure that the Jews will not return.  To byla symboliczny gest.  Budynki Getta
Warszawskie niemcy zaczeli niszczyc na dobre dopiero ROK   POZNIEJ,  po warszawskim powstaniu!!!

Po zydowskim powstaniu w poblizu zalozono oboz pracy gdzie Zydzi pladrowali/szabrowali  getto dla
niemcow.

>
>
> Although the large-scale operation has been completed, we have to reckon with the
> =================================================================================
> possibility that a few Jews are still living in the ruins of the former Ghetto;
> ===============================================================================
>
> [...]
> Of the total of 56,065 Jews caught, about 7,000 were exterminated within the former
> ====================================================================================
> Ghetto in the course of the large-scale action, and 6,929 by transporting them to T.II,
> =======================================================================================
> which means 14,000 Jews were exterminated altogether. Beyond the number of 56,065 Jews
> ======================================================================================
> an estimated number of 5,000 to 6,000 were killed by explosions or in fires.
> ============================================================================
>

O ile pan wiernie cytuje a raportu nie mam kolo siebie to te cyfry nie robia sensu.

56 tys zlapano ... 14 tys zamordowano (w Treblince II) itp itd.

A wszak holokstjanie ocalency i historycy twierdza ze zaledwie 15,000 pojewchalo do Trawnik a reszte
zagazowano w Treblince II!!!



>
> State of the Ghetto at the termination of the large-scale operation:
>
> Apart from 8 buildings (Police Barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing
> =================================================================================
> working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed.

Przesada "zwyciezcy"!  Wszak Getto przeszukiwano  przez rok a rozbito rok pozniej!

>
> ==========================================================
>
> ***************
> Jakos udalo im sie tego wszystkiego dokonac przy pomocy tylko
> 2000 tys uzbrojonych po zeby Niemcow
> ***************
>
> }} I'm anti-racist and I'm proud of it {{

Swietnie panie Wieslawie ze pan dal Stroopa wyjatki na sciep!!

A moze ma pan czytnik i moglby dac faksymilie???  Nam rewizjonistom byloby to bardzo na reke!!!

Z Powazaniem,  Polina

I z podziekowaniem za brak wulgaryzmow  (jak to jest po polsku wulgaryzmy?? - przeklenstwa? obelgi?)



From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov  3 22:10:01 EST 1999
Article: 193363 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
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Subject: Re:odp nr 2 odn krzesel>>> miotacze ognia w gettcie >>polska policja w    gettcie >>Fwd: Dydaktyka    Messrs. Glowackiego i    Rybaka
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Panie wieslawie

zarzuca pan mi klamstwa ... prosze puscic te zjdecia z raportu ze strazakami i z krzeslami na ulicy

Poolina

"wieslaw_no_spam@algonet.se" wrote:

A teraz moze wybrane wyjatki - z ktorych kojazeniem
Polina miala takie trudnosci. Moze by szanowna Polina
skomentowala tylko te male kawalki.

Wieslaw
****************

Total: 36/2054 - poleglych na bioracych udzial.

[Translator's note: This obviously means; 36 officers, 2054 men]

[...]
When we invaded the Ghetto for the first time, the Jews and the Polish bandits
==============================================================================
succeeded in repelling the participating units, including tanks and armored cars,
=================================================================================

****************
Z jakiego powodu zanim jakiekolwiek walki w Getcie sie zaczely Niemcy wkroczyli
odrazu z czolgami i opancerzonymi samochodami ? Dla higieny ?
****************

[...]
Late the first day we encountered rather heavy resistance, but it was quickly broken
=====================================================================================
by a special raiding party. In the course of further operations we succeeded in expelling
the Jews from their prepared resistance bases, sniper holes, and the like, and in occupying
during the 20 and 21 April the greater part of the so-called remainder of the Ghetto to such
a degree that the resistance continued within these blocks could no longer be called considerable.

**********
Ani slowa o pozarach i starazakach.
**********

[...]
The main Jewish battle group, mixed with Polish bandits, had already retired during the
=======================================================================================
first and second day to the so-called Muranowski Square. There, it was reinforced by a
considerable number of Polish bandits. Its plan was to hold the Ghetto by every means
in order to prevent us from invading it. The Jewish and Polish standards were hoisted
at the top of a concrete building as a challenge to us. These two standards, however,
were captured on the second day of the action by a special raiding party.
SS Untersturmfuehrer Dehmke fell in this skirmish with the bandits;.. he was holding in his
===========================
hand a hand-grenade which was hit by the enemy and exploded,

**********************
SS Dehmke prawdopodobnie byl w getcie dowodca batalionu starazkow albo czerwonego
krzyza. Jak widac nie tzrymal on w reku krzyzowki siedzac na krzesle (jak to
Polina ladnie napisala) ale granat. Po co ?
**********************

[...]
It must be stated that the Wehrmacht Engineers, too, executed the blowing up of dug-outs,
========================================================================================
sewers, and concrete buildings with indefatigability and great devotion to duty.
===============================================================================

[....]
Only through the continuous and untiring work of all involved did we succeed in
=================================================================================
catching a total of 56,065 Jews whose extermination can be proved. To this should be
====================================================================================
added the number of Jews who lost their lives in explosions or fires but whose numbers
=======================================================================================
could not be ascertained.
=========================

[...]
Permission was granted to the Polish police to pay to any Polish policeman who arrested
======================================================================================
a Jew within the Aryan part of Warsaw one third of the cash in the Jew's possession.
====================================================================================
This measure has already produced results.
==========================================

The Polish population for the most part approved the measures taken against the Jews.
====================================================================================
Shortly before the end of the largescale operation, the Governor issued a special
proclamation which he submitted to the undersigned for approval before publication, to
the Polish population; in it he informed them of the reasons for destroying the former
Jewish Ghetto by mentioning the assassinations carried out lately in the Warsaw area
and the mass graves found in Catyn; at the same time they were asked to assist us in
our fight against Communist agents and Jews (see enclosed poster).

The large-scale action was terminated on 16 May 1943 with the blowing up of the Warsaw
=======================================================================================
synagogue at 2015 hours.
=======================

Although the large-scale operation has been completed, we have to reckon with the
=================================================================================
possibility that a few Jews are still living in the ruins of the former Ghetto;
===============================================================================

[...]
Of the total of 56,065 Jews caught, about 7,000 were exterminated within the former
====================================================================================
Ghetto in the course of the large-scale action, and 6,929 by transporting them to T.II,
=======================================================================================
which means 14,000 Jews were exterminated altogether. Beyond the number of 56,065 Jews
======================================================================================
an estimated number of 5,000 to 6,000 were killed by explosions or in fires.
============================================================================

State of the Ghetto at the termination of the large-scale operation:

Apart from 8 buildings (Police Barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing
=================================================================================
working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed.
==========================================================

***************
Jakos udalo im sie tego wszystkiego dokonac przy pomocy tylko
2000 tys uzbrojonych po zeby Niemcow
***************

}} I'm anti-racist and I'm proud of it {{

From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov 10 13:50:52 EST 1999 Article: 692131 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares aboutNurembergTribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 22:36:18 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 81 Message-ID: <3820FF31.11E1BE90@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <7uoudq$1gmc$1@hub.org> <381BBA10.5B0CD190@catskill.net> <381F36C9.1A62F013@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:692131 soc.culture.polish:193377 soc.culture.ukrainian:60083 soc.culture.german:143638 soc.culture.russian:161174 "Lech K. Lesiak" wrote: > On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, polin wrote: > > > It was published in Germany in such a way as to not state conclusions (e.g. > > that the WW II 6,000,000 Jews dead is a great exaggeration and no sentence > > I agree - it is an exaggeration - at least technically. The six million > figure was derived by subtracting the post-WWII European Jewish > poplulation estimates from the pre-WWII estimates, allowing for > emigration. Whether the number of European Jewish deaths was six or three > million is interesting, but hardly significant if the topic under > discussion is German death factories. dEAR Leszek, As a revisionist, I never bothered with numbers and statistics. I consider these a priori unprovable. Nor eyewitness or perpetrators testimonies. The first are usually confabulations, the latter are extorted stories. As revisionist I am concerned with physical evidence, which is much more difficult to fake. I agree that the gas chambers are important but even more the about 3,000,000 Jews shot in the East and the lack of the mass graves of these individuals whom the Nazis did not have time to cremate! > > > > Thousand Islands of Lies. Your Holocaustianity prevents you from looking at > > facts rationally. It is still many years before mainstream scholars given > > dispensation from grantors and politicians will do the same to The Holocaust > > what prof Yehuda Bauer did to the human-fat-soap story and the A-B's > > 4,000,000 lie. > If you consider human fat soap and the 4,000,000 victims of Ausch-Birkenau as minor I think you overextend yourself just to prove the industrial murder of Jews. Try to get the 33 years old archeology report on Birkenau! We failed to get a complete one. The greatest secret of Poland! Assuming that these stories are minor, one must question the main stories also. Will you not agree. And why prof Lipstatt decreed NEVER DEBATE REVISIONIST and this party line is followed by 99.999% of Jewish diaspora. > > Actually, I have been accused of anti-semitism by more than one person > because I don't accept the North American conventional wisdom on the late > unpleasantness in Europe. Your references to the human fat and four > million story are typical revisionist Red Herrings. There are lies, > misinterpretations, and honest errors in all historical discussions. Just > because the soap-from-human-fat and lampshades-from-human-skin stories > turn out to be wrong does not mean Birkenau was not a death factory. > There exist thousands of pages of testimony from survivors, guards, and > the local population to prove the case. George Washingtion never cut down > a cherry tree, but that doesn't mean he didn't cross the Delaware. This > is a pretty good example of one type of specious reasoning I have found > in the revisionist literature - select something minor, prove it's wrong, > and then conclude that everything else on the subject is incorrect as > well. > You are dishonest with yourself. Look at ihr.org or codoh.org. They stick with the gassing matter for the last two decades. > > > > > PS Panie Leszku, prosze nie grac Leszka i dac nam znac jak mieli na > > nazwiska panscy dziadkowie. > > Maternal grandfather was named Miziala, paternal grandfather was named > Lesiak. I have a nice birth certificate written in German stating I was > born on the Horst Wessel strasse in Litzmannstadt. And, yes, I have a > foreskin. > > A bientot, > Leszek From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov 10 13:50:52 EST 1999 Article: 692376 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Not hair and suitcases but mass graves I would like to see at Auschwitz >>>>Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares aboutNurembergTribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:01:25 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 70 Message-ID: <38223A74.7D3CF26E@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <7uoudq$1gmc$1@hub.org> <381BBA10.5B0CD190@catskill.net> <381F36C9.1A62F013@catskill.net> <3820FF31.11E1BE90@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:692376 soc.culture.polish:193590 soc.culture.ukrainian:60133 soc.culture.german:143767 soc.culture.russian:161437 "Lech K. Lesiak" wrote: > On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, polin wrote: > > > As revisionist I am concerned with physical evidence, which is much more > > difficult to fake. > > Then go to the museum at Auschwitz. They have suitcases there with > people's names, addresses, and telephone numbers written on them. Use > that phyisical evidence to track down if these alleged victims were real > people, and what happened to them. Hair, eyeglasses, camps eating utensils and dishes or suitcases are NOT evidence of industrail murder of Jews. Traces or mass graves, ferrocyanides deposits in the wall of the gas chambers, presence of Zyklon insertion holes would be a weighty evidence and or proofs of such a murder. > > > > Will you not agree. And why prof Lipstatt decreed NEVER DEBATE REVISIONIST and > > this party line is followed by 99.999% of Jewish diaspora. > > > Probably for the same reason I don't debate people who claim Bill Clinton > is, in reality, an alien reptilian from Zeta Reticuli. > > > > > You are dishonest with yourself. Look at ihr.org or codoh.org. They > > stick with the gassing matter for the last two decades. > > I have read a fair amount of revisionist literature over the years and I > remain unconvinced. The revisionist position seems to be to take anything > that can possibly bolster their position, e.g. no written and signed > Hitler order for mass extermination, extend that beyond the bounds of > logic, and at the same time to completely ignore and/or denounce anything > that disproves their stance. Above is your tendentitious, holocaustian opinion. The fact that you act with malevolence above is present in your writting below. You are highly intelligent and critical, but not when it comes to your Judaic group fantasies o martyrdom. Yes, indeed you are correct about the errors and fobiles of most of revisionists who are philo-Teutonic. Yes, they criticize and ignore Jewish survivors martyrological stories (correctly) but can think of nothing wrong about the stories of German survivors which are as much ridiculous and unsubstatiated with physical evidence as the Jewish stories or Polish stories of eyewitnesses. > I find it interesting that the revisionists > believe any anecdotal evidence about post-war German deaths, deaths at the > hands of the soviets, but claim that all of the witness testimony about > Auschwitz, Majdanek, and Sobibor is a conspiracy of lies. > > As far as the investigation of the gas chambers goes, I'm not a chemist so > I am in no position to evaluate the claims of Faurisson, Leutcher et al. It is unfortuate, but believe me that I was the first to criticize the Leuchter report, the same night it got into my hands, and before it was published. Ignored and deprecated by other revisionists, at that time infatuated with Leuchter, eventually I lived to the time that young and intelligent and trained chemists such as Rudolf Germar roundly criticize this half-baked "scholar" Leuchter. Szczesc Boze od Polina > > > Czesc, > Leszek From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Nov 10 13:50:52 EST 1999 Article: 692588 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!europa.netcrusader.net!209.249.97.47!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Not hair and suitcases but mass graves I would like to see at Auschwitz >>>>Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares aboutNurembergTribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 22:28:54 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 89 Message-ID: <3823A075.CF02B8FB@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <7uoudq$1gmc$1@hub.org> <381BBA10.5B0CD190@catskill.net> <381F36C9.1A62F013@catskill.net> <3820FF31.11E1BE90@catskill.net> <38223A74.7D3CF26E@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:692588 soc.culture.polish:193697 soc.culture.ukrainian:60158 soc.culture.german:143863 soc.culture.russian:161601 Dear Mr. Lesiak, You accuse me of dogging your suggestion. I hope that the readers of this exchange will notice that you, and not me, are the dogger. In the title of this exchange you notice that my main thrust is not on hari or suitcases but on the [lack of] mass graves [of industrially murdered Jews], and you dodged this essential topic and veered off to trivial matters. I continue before "Lech K. Lesiak" wrote: > On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, polin wrote: > > > Hair, eyeglasses, camps eating utensils and dishes or suitcases are NOT evidence of > > industrail murder of Jews. Traces or mass graves, ferrocyanides deposits in the wall > > of the gas chambers, presence of Zyklon insertion holes would be a weighty evidence and > > or proofs of such a murder. > > > Nice dodge. I never mentioned hair or eyeglasses. I said track some of > the names and addresses on the suitcases to see what happened to the > people. You mentioned suitcases which are usually associated in holocaustian literature with more "weighty" hair and eyeglasses. Since you now specified your request more clearly I will respond to it below: > You can look in old telephone directories to see if the names and > addresses correspond. You can go to birth registers to verify names. You > can go to the neighborhoods where the people lived and ask about them. > You can try to find their relatives using internet resources. This is a nice suggestion but I will not do it and there are two reasons for it: a) at the deadly Auschwitz-Birkenau camp about 150,000 inmates died, some of executions, some of old age and most of epidemics. Thus it is possible that owners of suitcases could have die at the camp. b) far more likely is that the owners of the suitcases emigrated to the West and or remained in Poland, joined the Polish Communist Party in throws and slavicized their names. Thus your search methodology does not apply I wish I could search the records of the County Courts (Sady Grodzkie) in Poland to count the number of Jews who changed their names in mid and late 1940. Unfortunately these records are State Secret of the III Polish Republic. Did you ever think why such records are secret in democratic Poland?? > > > > Above is your tendentitious, holocaustian opinion. The fact that you act with > > malevolence above is present in your writting below. You are highly intelligent and > > critical, but not when it comes to your Judaic group fantasies o martyrdom. > > What malevolence? Kindly point it out. I have indicated it but you deleted that section. Thus have it and other readers again. I see your malevolence in the fact that you astutely and corectly notice deficiencies of revisionists. Thus you know what these deficiencies are, but you do not use this knowledge and critically evaluate your arguments. > If you are asserting that I am a > Jew, you are incorrect. I am Polish Catholic on both sides of my family > as far as I know. I certainly might have some Jewish blood since 10% of > the population of Poland was Jewish for quite some time and so it's quite > possible I have a Jewish ancestor. > An English proverb says: If it quacks like a duck it is a duck. About 1,500,000 to max 2,000,000 Jews in Poland almost perfectly abandoned their Jewishness and assimilated. The top example is Polands president Kwasniewski, who unlike a Jews resorts to drinking alcohol in excess. Your religion is irrelevant. Many assimilated Jews became marrani (maranos). My mother died about 10 years ago and she never knew that her best friend for 45 years was a Jewess. Her husband was politruk. Both came from Oliwa to Lodz to baptize her two children. Only because of her daughters friend though that I was a Jewess too, she told me that Bozenka is also a Jewess. Personal anegdotes are nice but irrelvant. Show me any large grave of industrially killed Jews and I will be Born Again Holocaustian. Recent excavations at Belzec if reported truly are far short of the 600,000 victim county. Polikna > > Czesc, > Leszek > Pax vobiscum From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Nov 11 15:13:24 EST 1999 Article: 693722 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.usa Subject: ? about "nerve gases" Sarin, Tabun and Napalm. Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:07:06 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <382ABF7A.7C217EC9@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:194839 soc.culture.jewish:421487 alt.revisionism:693722 soc.culture.german:144433 soc.culture.usa:428564 Good morning, In late 1930s and early 1940 German chemists discovered so called "nerve gases" actually smell-less liquids at normal temperatures, from among cyano or organophosphates, easily absorbable by skin and far more toxic then the WW I gases. Two examples of them are Sarin and Tabun some of them in modified form used as insecticides. These sustances are the most toxic human-made compounds. But Hitler choose suicide and collapse of the III Reich rather than to use these gases in a form of emulsions on enemy civilians (London, Paris) or soldiers. American scholars at Harvard invented Napalm a syrupy mixture of aluminum soap of palmitinic acid (the "solvent") and gasoline. The palmitinic acid soap turns gasoline in a sticky gelly with used with horrifying effects in all larger Japaneese and German cities as well as in Korea and Vietnam. Could any one share with me (preferably by emailing me directly) her/his thoughts why Hitler did not use the potent "nerve gases" and why he shelved the development of strategic so called Amerika-bomber (spelled with 'K') which was designed (but not produced) against his wishes by Dr. Messerschmidt and turned out to be the most advanced aircraft of the era. Why American leaders used anti-civilians weapons without reservations? Polina Borowska From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Nov 25 03:20:57 EST 1999 Article: 694593 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.usa Subject: Re: ? about "nerve gases" Sarin, Tabun and Napalm. Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 06:02:37 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 57 Message-ID: <382FE84C.B8678C45@catskill.net> References: <382ABF7A.7C217EC9@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:195467 soc.culture.jewish:422217 alt.revisionism:694593 soc.culture.german:144866 soc.culture.usa:429837 Thanks for partial response. I would appreciate if you would let me know how to look for the discussion re civlians bombing aircrafts ("long range bomebers [of WW II era" on the moderated newsgroups you mention. Being a pacifist and not a war-fancier I did not realized that Nazis were also against development of another mass murder weapon e.g. AK like rifle. Can you imagine how useful it would be in the industrial murder of the Jews of the of the small Eastern shtetels and gehttos?? Its use would preclude clattering of the Deutches Ostbhans with fecundous Polish Zhids, dirty Ukrainian Jews and not equally dirty but better educated Hungarian Kikes who had to be transported to the A-B Death Factory in the glorious 1,000-years-old Altreich. Lechs response is truly appreciated. I hhope he will provide me with exact references to M-44 assault rifle. I also hoppe that someone else responded to the question of organophsphatic "nerve gases" Sarin, Tabun and alike, the most potent human made toxins, discovered but not used by the murderous (?) but indolent (?) Nazis. Greetings from Polina Borowska (Mrs.) "Lech K. Lesiak" wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, polin wrote: > > > Could any one share with me (preferably by emailing me directly) her/his > > thoughts why Hitler did not use the potent "nerve gases" and why he > > shelved the development of strategic so called Amerika-bomber (spelled > > with 'K') which was designed (but not produced) against his wishes by > > Dr. Messerschmidt and turned out to be the most advanced aircraft of the > > era. > > The reasons the Germans did not develop long range bonbers has been > discussed extensively in the WWII moderated newsgroup. More interesting > is why Hitler didn't allow production of the MP-44, the first assault > rifle that Kalashnikov based his AK-47 on. Some MP-44's were produced and > sent to Russia where the infantry officers were amazed by them, and > demanded more. Hitler had a fit when he found out they had been produced > against his orders. > > Czesc, > Leszek From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Nov 25 03:20:58 EST 1999 Article: 694594 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!europa.netcrusader.net!209.249.97.47!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.usa Subject: Re: ? about "nerve gases" Sarin, Tabun and Napalm. Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 06:20:30 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 111 Message-ID: <382FEC7D.E2E55314@catskill.net> References: <382ABF7A.7C217EC9@catskill.net> <364BED6E.3F81@nospam.telekabel.at> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:195468 soc.culture.jewish:422224 alt.revisionism:694594 soc.culture.german:144868 soc.culture.usa:429840 Good evening, Poor LEG replies with widely spread in America illogical mythology. I am responding below to each of his unwitting disinformation: LEG wrote: > polin wrote: > > > > Good morning, > > > > In late 1930s and early 1940 German chemists discovered so called "nerve > > gases" actually smell-less liquids at normal temperatures, from among > > cyano or organophosphates, easily absorbable by skin and far more toxic > > then the WW I gases. Two examples of them are Sarin and Tabun some of > > them in modified form used as insecticides. These sustances are the > > most toxic human-made compounds. > > > > But Hitler choose suicide and collapse of the III Reich rather than to > > use these gases in a form of emulsions on enemy civilians (London, > > Paris) or soldiers. > > > > American scholars at Harvard invented Napalm a syrupy mixture of > > aluminum soap of palmitinic acid (the "solvent") and gasoline. The > > palmitinic acid soap turns gasoline in a sticky gelly with used with > > horrifying effects in all larger Japaneese and German cities as well as > > in Korea and Vietnam. > > > > Could any one share with me (preferably by emailing me directly) her/his > > thoughts why Hitler did not use the potent "nerve gases" and why he > > shelved the development of strategic so called Amerika-bomber (spelled > > with 'K') which was designed (but not produced) against his wishes by > > Dr. Messerschmidt and turned out to be the most advanced aircraft of the > > era. > > > > Why American leaders used anti-civilians weapons without reservations? > > > > Polina Borowska > > I have heard several versions: > - Hitler was injured by poison gas in WWI, and did not want to use it > on the battlefield. The above sounds reasonable. > He used it to kill jews, whom he deemed less that > humans. Makes no sense to use the strategic Zyclon B (to delouse soldiers clothing) on the less then humans while the Nazis could use some old stove, stoke it with an old Jewish clothing, restrict the air to the stove and pipe free of charge CARBON MONOXIDE into homicidal gas chambers. Allegedly they tried soviet tank engines at Treblinka and Sobibor but since they were all Diesel type these2 could not produce carbon monoxide unless in an university laboratory setting > > - Poison gas went out of fashion after WWI because it is highly > unpredictable and just as dangerous to both sides. True, but Sarin and Tabun are not gases but liquids which could be dispersed in a form of emulsion or spray as the farmers Maine and Idaho do it on their fields of patatos > > - The allies would have retaliated in kind. So why Germans did not retaliate with carpet bombings of London? > > > I do not know which one correct, I have just heard them. Maybe Hitlers > lack of sanity plays a role here. I agree that Hitler was a reverse of idiot savant e.g. he had a blind spot about importance of Ukrainians in winning the war and Russian peasantry. > Hitler was *not* a good strategist. > He was successful at first because of Germanys technical superiority, > ruthless politics (the allies did not realize they were up against > a crazy killer until 1939), surprise and good generals. > > I have read in several reputable books that Hitler was highly irrational I have red in several reputable books that Martians landed in America and violated American Boy Scouts. > > towards the air force, even commanding the finished Me 262 jet fighter > reworked into a bomber. > > BTW: The Nazis had absolutely no compuncations about killing > civilians. The bombings of Rotterdam, Belgrade, Coventry and London > are good examples. In this phoney and disinfromational list LEG forgot to ad Guernica in 1936 and Warsaw in 1939. But all these bombings were part of then internationally accepted seige warfare. Incidentally, Hitler repetitiously forewarned Poles not to defend Warsaw to avoid bombardment. Coventry's industrial areas and London's harbors were bombed September 1940 in response to bombing of western German civilians starting May 11, 1940. Nazis were restraining themselfe for almost five months with retaliation. Polina > The Allies gave back what they had learned > (Understand > me right here: I feel with every poor bloke whose loved ones were killed > in the air war, but I do not forget who started it). From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Nov 25 03:20:58 EST 1999 Article: 694837 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.esat.net!iol.ie!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.usa Subject: Re: ? about "nerve gases" Sarin, Tabun and Napalm. Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:53:35 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 54 Message-ID: <383218AF.FF114015@catskill.net> References: <382ABF7A.7C217EC9@catskill.net> <382FE84C.B8678C45@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:195895 soc.culture.jewish:422560 alt.revisionism:694837 soc.culture.german:144987 soc.culture.usa:430451 Good evening, If Hitler (Germans) would be a bloodthirsty maniac, he/they would use long range bombers for killing civilians, 'nerve gasses" SArin and Tabun (actually aerosoles) and AK-like M-44 assault rifle and first of all carbon monoxide from partially burned Jewish clothing. Instead he/they stopped developement of these weapons of mass destruction and used Holzgas wagons for transport only. Mr. Lech is wrong saying M-44, German AK- like rifle would be not contributory in industrial murder of Jews. Survivors say that Nazis specialized with killing many Jews with one bullet by alining them along their rifle shots. The heavier bullet of M-44 having more kinetic energy would penetrate more Jews than the bullet of M-40 Schmeisser. According to orthodox holocaustians Nazis/common Germans killed with bullets about 3,500,000 Jews and less then that with Zyclon B. Polina "Lech K. Lesiak" wrote: > On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, polin wrote: > > > Being a pacifist and not a war-fancier I did not realized that Nazis were also > > against development of another mass murder weapon e.g. AK like rifle. > > An interesting and typical revisionist twisting of what I posted. I said > Herr Schickelgruber was opposed to the development of the MP-44, not that > the Nazis were. Hitler opposed it largely because he wanted resources > devoted to weaponry such as the V-1, V-2, and Me-262. The German military > understood the tactical significance of a large calibre automatic rifle > and wanted more. > > > > > Can you imagine how useful it would be in the industrial murder of the Jews > > of the of the small Eastern shtetels and gehttos?? Its use would preclude > > Lechs response is truly appreciated. I hhope he will provide me with exact > > references to M-44 assault rifle. > > In fact, the MP-44 would not have contributed anything at all to > industrial murder of anyone. Shooting people is a very inefficient way to > exterminate them. In any case, the MP-40 (aka Schmeisser) was equally > good for mowing down groups of unarmed civilians at close range. The > MP-40 shot 9mm pistol ammo at 600 rounds a minute. The MP-44's big > advantage was that it used a heavier round that would travel further. > This is useful in combat conditions, but makes no difference when shooting > unarmed women, children, and old people at close range. > > Cheers, > Leszek From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Nov 25 03:20:58 EST 1999 Article: 694872 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa Subject: Re: ? about "nerve gases" Sarin, Tabun and Napalm. Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 01:02:35 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 62 Message-ID: <383244FB.5091C19A@catskill.net> References: <382ABF7A.7C217EC9@catskill.net> <382FE84C.B8678C45@catskill.net> <383218AF.FF114015@catskill.net> <80t53s$196k$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:694872 soc.culture.polish:195932 soc.culture.jewish:422593 soc.culture.usa:430522 Dear Mr Mc Vay, As you know it is difficult to count the victims of the WW II Holocaust since various sources give various figures. For example the Polish Historical Society collected a few dozens of established figures for the victims of Babi Yar which ranged from 6,000 to 300,000. When I mentions the orthodox holocaustian scholars I mean the most accepted academicians of the stature of Prof Glibert or Hilberg. But even their counts vary. But I am certain that you will agree that about 800,000 Jews died at Auschwitz half from Zyclon B (J. C. Pressac), about 960,000 at T reblinka (Jerusalem prosecutors) 600,000 at Belzec and 300,000 at Sobibor allegedly >from exhaust from the engines of Soviet tanks and some 100,000 at Chelmno >from Saurer, Diesel trucks. This in total amounts roughly to about 2,500,000 Jews. The others of the 6,000,000 died of the machine gun fire mostly of the Einsatzgruppen reports of which you carry on your website. Did you ever add the number of the killed. Could you share this aritmetic with us??? You could also refer to the numbers of the Jews killed introduced at Nuremberg by the Soviet Extraordinary Commision for the Investigation of the German Crimes chaired by quite famous (later) Nikita Khrushchev. Incidentally he virtually omited his chairmanship from his memoirs. I appologize for not using spell check. Polina Borowska. PS While you took time to severely criticize me you forgot to respond to the Germans avoidance of using weapons suitable for mass killing of civilians Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <383218AF.FF114015@catskill.net>, > polin wrote, semi-coherently: > > >According to orthodox holocaustians Nazis/common Germans killed with > >bullets about > >3,500,000 Jews and less then that with Zyclon B. > > Which "orthodox holocaustians" have claimed 3.5 million Jews were > shot? > > How many Jews were gassed with engine exhaust, instead of Zyklon-B? > > Why don't you mention these things in your barely-coherent > blatherings? > > http://www.nizkor.org/ > > -- > The Nizkor Project An Electronic Holocaust Education Resource > RealVideo Filmclips http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen > from the liberated http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/nordhausen > camps of Nazi Germany http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Nov 25 03:20:59 EST 1999 Article: 695080 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.usa,soc.history.war.us-revolution,soc.culture.australian,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Stripers after Auschwitz ... want Israeli students >>4KOSCIUSKO, let's start anew fun thread! Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:36:14 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 48 Message-ID: <3834B79D.EA57E506@catskill.net> References: <80l6cg$enb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <80m13f$18$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <382fab42.0@news.uni-ulm.de> <80pol3$hqq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <80q95f$uip$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <80qmvb$874$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <80so22$oq1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <80ui61$2ls$2@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> <80vht2$nj2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <80vt9v$vap$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38343F55.D2FA6D42@ix.netcom.com> <3834416A.F290B15C@x.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.yugoslavia:251449 soc.culture.russian:163940 soc.culture.polish:196405 soc.culture.ukrainian:60644 soc.culture.usa:431159 soc.history.war.us-revolution:7215 soc.culture.australian:107141 alt.revisionism:695080 soc.culture.jewish:422891 Good evening, If the AP report is real and not a well executed fake, it is horrilbe, unexplicable and most embarassing for the Holocaustians. Millions of shekels has been spent on the holocaustian education of the Israeli youth. If they indeed invited male and female stripers to their quarters there might be only one explanation that this was under the influence of holocaust revisionism highly suppressed in Israel. A law against holocaust revisionism was passed in Israel in 1981 and carries penalty of five years in prison (public blasphemy in this judeo-eclesiatical state is punished by one year in prison). I think that the suppression of ideas along with the wide access to revisionism via internet, and familiarity of Jewish students with that intellectual, dissident movement created a major internal psychological conflict in these young wired individuals. To me invitation of stripers after seeing the alleged industrial murder of their coreligionists represents protest against the disinformation fed to them through unwired generation. Polina Borowska Novocainchenko wrote: > > JERUSALEM, Nov 18 (AP) - Israeli students on a visit to Poland > to learn about the horrors of the Holocaust took time off to be > entertained by a local stripper, their school admitted on Thursday. > Sixty secondary school students from kibbutzim (collective > villages) in the north of Israel were visiting Poland in early > November to tour Nazi death camps when the boys in the party > organized for stripper to visit their hotel. > Not to be outdone, the girls also arranged for a male stripper > to perform for them. > The Ofek school has apologised for the students' behaviour and > said that those involved will be punished. > "It's a revolting story but it cannot be solved by punishment > only by education," Education Minister Yossi Sarid told public > radio. > Educational visits to sites associated with the Holocaust have > become increasingly popular in Israel to the extent that tens of > thousands of young people take part in organized trips each year.

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