The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/berg.friedrich/1998/berg.9806


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:52 EDT 1998
Article: 179679 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Danny Keren's 6% CO Diesel Exhaust
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Dear Mike Curtis,

Allright, then you try to answer the simple challenge I gave to Danny Keren to
explain how one"easily" gets 6% CO from Diesels using a liquid fuel.  Explain
it on the basis of your "disparate" testimony, or evidence or whatever you like
--but, do explain it.

I will even make it easier for you.  Explain how one  gets as little as 1% CO
>from  a Diesel with liquid fuels.  That's the challenge I just gave yesterday to
Richard Schultz in Israel where their very existence as a state depends on such
stories.  1% CO from a Diesel with liquid fuels? 

The greatest mass murder weapon of Jews in the history of the entire
universe--and you haven't a clue as to how it could have possibly worked. 
Perhaps it was a punishment from Yahweh!

FP Berg 
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:53 EDT 1998
Article: 179814 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeikens Address and Telephone Number
Message-ID: <1998060202251900.WAA13058@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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Dear Readers,

I have challenged  Edeiken to "prove" that 150 of his relatives were murdered
in the holocaust by the Germans as he has asserted.  He offered to accept just
such a challenge in an earlier posting.  But, he must "prove' his claim on the
basis of verifiable evidence  and not simply by counting on the "judgement" of
a committee of brainwashed idiots like himself.  He mus,t as a minimum, give
the names of the relatives, their relationship to him, their location at time
of death and relevant dates, etc., as one would expect in any kind of murder
claim and proof that they were killed by the Germans.  No vague generalities 
are permissible.

Being from what I generally believed was a rather large family, my mother was
one of eight children,--nonetheless, my mother and I could never have imagined
that we had more than about fifty relatives.  Edeiken insists that he lost many
times that number. Without knowing any thing at all about him personally, I am
nonetheless quite certain that he is simply telling a rather common Jewish lie.
 

The magic number that Jews like to throw out for their murdered relatives
always was, from my own experience, about 150.  Sometimes a bit more, maybe
200--sometimes a bit less, but not much less.  To me it is rather
obvious--these stories are all lies.

Let Edeiken try to prove otherwise.

FP Berg


alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:53 EDT 1998
Article: 179906 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeikens Address and Telephone Number
Lines: 21
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Dear Mr. Edeiken,

The alternative I propose is simple and obvious.  Present your "proof" right
here on the newsgroup.  Give sources that people can check for themselves. 
Better yet, publish your "proof" in a booklet or book that people can examine
for all time--and discuss and debate openly.  No gloomy little arbitration
rooms are needed or can ever be as good.  Let your "proof" stand up to the
light of day.  Are you afraid of the light of day?  I think you are.

Let  us not make a Federal case out of all this either as you seem to propose. 
And no threats of lawsuits, please--heaven forbid.  Federal courts and judges
helped hang the innocent men at Nuremberg.  Don't drag people into court just
because they don't believe you.  Accept my challenge to try to prove your
monstrous claim right here on the internet in this newsgroup.  The subject is
so important--the whole world deserves to be educated.  Make your evidence
available to everyone for all time, at your expense--surely its worth it.  Let
the whole world see just what kinds of shoddy evidence people like you come up
with when they are actually challenged to put up or shutup!

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:54 EDT 1998
Article: 179964 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
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Now, now Danny Boy,

You are almost certainly lying again.  So give the source of your Peters
quote--its a book according to you, page number please--so that I can check it
out without relying on your  corrupted website. 

 I have most of everything that Peters ever published in my own files and in
German and I have probably used that same passage without mistranslation in my
own esssay "Zyklon-B the German Delousing Chambers."  See the CODOH website.

So give the original German source.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:54 EDT 1998
Article: 180148 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeikens Address and Telephone Number
Lines: 13
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Dear little Mr. Edeiken,

Couldn't you at least give us some of the"proof" that you insist you have? 
Couldn't you let the whole world look at small portion of it, or perhaps a clue
or a hint?  Is that too painful?  Perhaps Mr. Spielberg can give you some money
to publish your "proof" so that we can all purchase a copy of another great
holocaust book or, at the very least, a small booklet.

By the way, I ain't running anywhere.   I will be right here for at least a
while longer on your computer screen--and in your face.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:55 EDT 1998
Article: 180379 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 29
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Dear Eugene Holman,

>From  your formatting, I cannot make out what these two Swedes are actually
claiming.  Are these handwritten notes from which you are quoting or what?  If
they would actually publish that stuff, they  would make fools of themselves.

You or the Swedes refer to Pattle et al and claim that in Pattle's experiments
the "animals die in all cases, no matter what the carbon monoxide content." 
That is totally false as anyone who actually reads the Pattle essay  can easily
see.

On page 50 of Pattle there is Table 1 which summarizes the results of the eight
experiments.  See also the explanatory text on page 52-- column left.   For
experiments A1 and A2 after five hours of continuous exposure in a gaschamber
that was thoroughly purged of any fresh air, only pure Diesel exhaust filled
the chamber--all 40 mice, 10 guinea-pigs, and 4 rabbits were ALIVE.    In other
words, after five hours in a gaschamber totally filled with exhaust from a
diesel running at idle,  all were ALIVE.  Obviously, the quoted statement in
the previous paragraph is totally false.  Take those Swedes to some remedial
reading courses and join them yourself.

Is this getting too complicated for you?  I think it is.  You obviously have
trouble reading ordinary English--and your credentials in languages don't seem
to help much, no how!

FP Berg


alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Thu Jun  4 12:44:55 EDT 1998
Article: 180436 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 42
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Dear Richard Schultz, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel

So many of the recent messages are too, too silly for me to answer  any more,
but your appearance adds some class to this discussion--maybe?  Time will tell.

So here's my challenge to you:  Explain to us how one gets a Diesel engine to
yield even as much as 1% CO in the exhaust with liquid fuels.   We can forget
about achieving that "easily" for now--even the Nizkorites are ready to throw
in the towel on that absurdity.

Pattle and four other experts were only able to get a maximum of 0.22% from
their Diesel. 

You should also contact the supreme court of Israel and ask them how it was
done.  They were out to educate the whole world, not just convict a murderer,
with their showtrial against the man who supposedly murdered 800,000 Jews with
Diesel exhaust.
They provided no forensic or technical or scientific evidence or explanation
for the accusations at all--merely the assertion which was, of course, enough
for their purposes-- a big show.

You are wrong about the importance of CO2 as Pattle et al show.  Their
experiments on live animals performed for as long as five hours in 8 separate
tests took all those possible combined effects into account.

Pattle, Stretch, Burgess, Sinclair and Edginton--"the Toxicity of Fumes from a
Diesel engine under four different running conditions,"  --- Brit. Journ. of
industrial medicine, 1957, volume 14, pages 47 through 55.  Available also from
CODOH for $2.00 shipping included.  CODOH, PO Box 439016/P-111,  San Diego, CA
92134  USA 

 Also try to get my essay, available from CODOH for $5.00--"The Diesel Gas
Chambers; Myth within a Myth."  If you can read German, perhaps you are German,
the best reference of all is: Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte--Grabert Verlag
(415 pages) and available from CODOH for $60.oo, US shipping by air  included
(even to Israel).  All available copies at the publisher were confiscated by
the current pseudo-German government and even the printing plates were
destroyed--but through the miracles of modern communications even more copies
are appearing as if by magic.  Lucky you.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri Jun  5 19:39:17 EDT 1998
Article: 180708 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeikens Address and Telephone Number
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Dear little Mr. Edeiken,

Here I am in your face once again.

Please give us, or at least try to describe, some of the evidence which you
insist "proves" that 150 of your relatives were murdered by the Nazis.  You
made that monstrous claim here on the internet--so this is where you should try
to prove it also.

Try to stand up like a man.

Defend your monstrous claim in open debate here, the same way everyone else
does--no ground rules, no "impartial" panel, no money reward for winner or cost
for loser.  The truth should be reward enough.

Try to stand tall and show the world  that you are not really the flaming
coward that you have proven yourself to be until now.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Sat Jun  6 14:40:23 EDT 1998
Article: 180992 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeikens Address and Telephone Number
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Dear little Mr. Edeiken,

Is that a change in conditions that you seem to be offering now?

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Sat Jun  6 14:40:23 EDT 1998
Article: 181093 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeikens Address and Telephone Number
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Dear little Mr. Edeiken,

It is so lonely way up here on the moral highground--but it is beautiful.  The
scenery, the fresh air, the clouds, the clear blue sky--it truly lifts my
spirit and inspires me to do greater and greater things.  Now though, it seems
I should descend many thousands of feet to get a little nearer to you.

You did write the following on June 1, 1998:

"I SUGGEST the AAA and the following conditions:"  [emphasis added]

"I await your acceptance of my condtions OR a proposal of ALTERNATIVES." 
[emphasis added]

To me that reads as if there might have been some flexibility on your part 
But, the moment I proposed an "alternative," (namely the internet) you accused
me of all kinds of vile things.  

Could we at least try to make a deal?  You give a little ground and I give a
little ground--I think I can actually give a lot of ground.  Are you at all
interested?

I don't believe I actually call you a liar--at least not yet.  What I did write
on message 2 of this thread was:  "I am quite certain that he is simply telling
a rather common Jewish lie."  I am quite certain but, I must admit, not
"absolutely" or "entirely" certain that your tale is also.  Perhaps you can
"prove" your claim!  Perhaps you can "prove" that my opinion based on prejudice
is wrong--but, but, but it can be so expensive.   Murder claims are such an
expensive business, in general, as even OJ Simpson knows.  Your story goes back
to events more than fifty years old.    Israel and the US Justice Department
spent millions trying to "prove" John Demjanjuk murdered 800,000 Jews  and in
the end, admitted they hadn't been able to "prove" he had murdered even one
Jew.  Demjanjuk has his US citizenship restored, but he is also 'broke."  If
you did "prove" your murder claim as defined by and under your conditions, I 
would of course be the loser--and, I would more than likely be ruined
financially.  No doubt, that is the main purpose of your proposed exercise.
Your condition 3 bothers me an awful lot--and is totally unacceptable.  Is that
too complicated for anyone to understand?

But conditions 1 and 2 don't look bad at all if you or someone on your side of
the moral spectrum will pick up the tab.  In fact, for all I care, you can even
go to a "biased" panel--go to the US Holocaust Museum or Yad Vashem or any
other panel or tribunal that you care to.  I do not care in the least.  Getting
a truly "impartial" panel seems so hopeless to me anyway.  The OJ court spent
millions just trying to get just such a panel and, in the end, failed
nonetheless. As to rules of evidence, use whatever rules you care to--but don't
bind me.

I  don't care in the least about your choice of rules of evidence, or your
choice of a panel, or even their verdict --so long as I retain the freedom to
go over the evidence and give my reasons and opinion afterwards here on the
internet and elsewhere in public.  But that, in a nutshell, is precisely what
bothers people on your side of the moral spectrum!!  You really do want to bind
me-- financially as well as in countless other ways.  
 
The freedom to defend oneself even against pronouncements of the state or the
verdicts of Nuremberg bothers people on your side of the moral spectrum an
awful lot.  A convicted murderer and his family still have the right to protest
his innocence.  However, the "Holocaust" is somehow different. That is why
Ernst Zuendel has been jailed and brought into the courts of Canada for the
umpteenth time.  Those posters from Canada who call me a "coward" need only
look in the mirror to see real cowards.  In Germany today, the freedom to speak
on these subjects is rigorously suppressed--Guenter Deckert is in prison for
years merely because he publicly translated a speech of Leuchter--and on and on
and on.  The repression of the internet in Germany is nearly total and
ruthless.  

None of what I have written will get through to you, Mr. Edeiken--we all know
that.  The impartial tribunal that we have right here, open to the entire
world, will continue to frighten people on your side of the moral spectrum--and
rightly so!  Although everything under the sun, and even far beyond, is debated
here--usually inconclusively, but often conclusively and even with great
precision--you insist on some kind of "special treatment" for your monstrous
claim.  You insist on a kind of "Sonderbehandlung"--and how ironic. 

FP Berg

P.S.   And all those names you continue to call me--where will it end?  By the
way, I have heard that Sara Salzman just loves it when you talk "dirty."  There
she is now, behind that tree over there. Oh look, she's giggling,  and now
she's starting to blush--oh, she's turning away, shy demure creature that she
is.  You two should have a lot to chat about, by e-mail at least--your
"manliness" and that sort of thing.  

Bye-Bye for now.  I must return to my mountaintop--afterall "Berg" means
mountain.  
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Sun Jun 14 02:25:06 EDT 1998
Article: 182313 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Motivates Those Who Deny the Holocaust
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Dear Yale F. Edeiken,

I was about to post a challenge to any and all Jews to tell me about all their
relatives who were "murdered" by the Nazis--and make some of my typical
scathing, sarcastic remarks about how the magic number always seemed to be
about "150 relatives."  Sometimes the number is higher; sometimes it's a bit
lower--but its always rather large--at least a hundred but usually around 150. 


I was always amazed at those large numbers  because  coming from a large Roman
Catholic family in which my mother was one of eight  children, I and my mother
could never have dreamt of identifying or naming more than perhaps forty
relatives. 
And so, I think you are simply lying when you claim 150 of yours were lost. 
Unless, you want to go back to ancient family ties all the  way back to Adam, I
am more than confident that you cannot even identify 150 relatives.  Names and
relationship please.  Evidence of death and date and place and cause of death
please.

Prove that you lost 150 relatives in the Holocaust--but prove it on the basis
of verifiable evidence and not merely the judgement of a committee of
brainwashed idiots like yourself.  Prove it!  

This will be interesting--and I will be right here waiting.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri Jun 19 13:50:19 EDT 1998
Article: 184238 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Common "Revisionist" Lie: "no Documents"
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Dear Mr. Baron,

Good for you for your response to Keren.  Your quote from Peguy is also
excellent.

Best regards, 
FP Berg
alt.revisionism



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