The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/baron.al/1996/baron.0396


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar  1 14:23:54 PST 1996
Article: 25751 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Jews: Religion or race? (was: Ernst Zundel Avoids Use
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:31:38 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4h0b0h$vo@larry.cc.emory.edu>
           libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu "william c anderson" writes:
> Careful there, Mr. Giwer--chances are that your buddy Al Baron has
> documented evidence showing that Meyer Lansky was a good-hearted,
> respectable businessman.

Meyer Lansky is my kind of Jew. The Zionists kicked him out of Israel, so he
couldn't have been all bad by definition.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar  1 14:23:55 PST 1996
Article: 25768 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron's Lack of References
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 01:05:27 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4goeep$2t0@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         The Quakers have a saying, Lyin' Al.  Fool me once it's your fault.  
> Fool me twice it's mine.  You've played this little game before.  First you
>  present 
> some outrageous lie; then you give a name as a reference; then when the 
> reference is produced and it does not say what you claim it said, you blame it 
> on reference.  

This is actually a Chinese proverb: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice,
shame on me.

If you cannot produce a quote and a page I assume you are 
> lying.  There might come a time when this assumption might turn out to be 
> wrong.  It ain't happened yet.




>         Need I remind you who wrote -- quite foolishly considering his record
>  -- 
> "He who asserts must prove."  I think you're lying again, Lyin' Al.  Provide me
>  a 
> a reference.
> 
>         --YFE
> 

> 
You assume wrong: now apologise:

FIGHTING AUSCHWITZ: THE RESISTANCE MOVEMENT IN THE CONCENTRATION 
CAMP, by Jozef Garlinski, published by Julian Friedmann, London, 
(1975). 

page 53 reports the murders of so-called informers and an incred-
ible account of a prisoner who is said to have bred typhus-
bearing lice and used them to murder SS men by infecting them 
with them.

page 134 typhus first appeared in the camp in April 1941, with a 
transport from Lublin. In peaked in the summer of 1942
"The Germans...were slow in starting to fight the typhus in 
Auschwitz, either thinking that it would die out quickly, or 
regarding it as an ally which would help in exterminating the 
prisoners more rapidly." 

page 140: the author describes the murder of an alleged Gestapo 
informer. This is particularly gruesome. The victim had been 
sentenced to death by the underground.

page 141 describes other murders, including by specially bred 
typhus lice. This is said to have killed a number of SS men ie 
"caused serious losses".


page 211 in 1943 "Wirths was under pressure from Berlin, who 
ordered that typhus was to be stamped out and the prisoners' 
standard of health improved so that they could work better."

page 217 November 11, 1943, Hoess was transferred to Berlin
page 217 SS man Palitzsch began an affair with a Slovakian Jewess 
after his wife died of typhus, with which $he$ had been deliberate-
ly infected.

Some of this stuff is rather candid, don't you think, Yale?


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 09:39:46 PST 1996
Article: 25786 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Germans
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 02:07:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4gvmsi$qco@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:

> When Mr. Baron used the phrase, "Stupid Jews," naturally all the Jews
> in the newsgroup protested.  When Mr. Moran used the phrase, "Stupid
> Germans," it was up to all the Germans who read this newsgroup to
> protest.  Since they did not, the logical conclusion is that there
> either are no Germans reading this newsgroup, or they do not care
> enough about Mr. Moran's nonsense to take offense.

Or perhaps they don't whine as loud and as groundlessly as the Chosen Race?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 09:39:47 PST 1996
Article: 25812 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yale the Wail and women's toilets
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 01:44:01 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4h39lh$ffr@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         Why can't you answer a simple question, Lyin' Al.  Brown v. Board of 
> Education concerned four school districts.  *All* of them spent less money on 
> Blacks.  What evidence, other than your own bigotry,  do you have for stating 
> otherwise?  What relevance is private charity when discussing state 
> expenditures?

Brown v Topeka was not about improving the education of black kids, it was a
concerted effort by the enemies of Western Man, including many loud-mouth
forever wailing and gnashing of teeth "Jews" like yourself, to promote forced race-mixing. It is noteworthy
that other ethnic groups - in particular Chinese and JEWS - have taken exception]
to this gerrymandering. The people behind this - largely socialists and 
other collectivists - don't give a fuck about blacks any more than do the ADL.
And ultimately they don't give a fuck about Jews either, because it is largely
the activities of certain Jewish organisations and individuals in promoting
forced race mixing and undermining the white Anglo-Saxon heritage which is the
major cause of anti-Semitism in the Western world today, and indeed it has 
been for many years.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 09:39:48 PST 1996
Article: 25813 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al and Free Speech
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 01:48:14 GMT
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In article <4h3su8$1ego@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:


>Obviously you have learned to
> to play Greg Raven's favorite word game around this.

No John, I have learned not to be pigeon-holed by pillocks who try to claim
that anyone who rejects consensus on this supposedly so difficult subject
is endorsing the Protocols of Zion.
 

> Is this a suitable forum for discussing your pathological hatred
> of homosexuals? 

Homosexuals are facing a Holocaust: AIDS - so this is appropriate.

American civil rights cases? 

In an historical context.

>Al Capone (or drug
> prohibition

You will recall my study is called "A Revisionist History of Prohibition"



-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 09:39:49 PST 1996
Article: 25814 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!winternet.com!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Germans
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 01:38:08 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4h3amq$h5j@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >   Alexander Baron  writes:
> >  
> >  
> >  Or perhaps they don't whine as loud and as groundlessly as the Chosen Race?
> >
> >>>>
>         There's nothing like Lyin' Al when he's imitating Herr Streicher (his
>  hero). 
>  One of his fellow anti-Semites posts what he feels is an insult.  Whose fault
>  is it?  

Actually Yale, you have a great deal more in common with Der Sturmer than me;
you'd be right at home in it.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 09:39:49 PST 1996
Article: 25815 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Happy to oblige, Mr. Giwer!
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 01:29:47 GMT
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In article <4h3skt$cc0@aphex.direct.ca>
           hostrov@uniserve.com "Hilary Ostrov" writes:
> 
> If Mr. Baron is referring to the long disused label "mongoloid", he
> should take some time to educate himself and recognize that the
> correct and commonly accepted way to speak of such people - of
> whatever age or stage of gestation - is to note that they have Down's
> Syndrome.

Actually it's not that long disused on this side of the Pond. Circa 1984 a
surgeon, Dr Leonard Arthur, was charged with, tried and acquitted of the murder
of a newborn Mongol baby. The press used the term quite freely then.

> Ah, no doubt a social worker was visiting the local pub where Alex was
> chatting up historians 

I don't freqent pubs, generally, being teetotal since 1986. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 09:39:50 PST 1996
Article: 25825 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Jews: Religion or race? (was: Ernst Zundel Avoids Use
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:32:28 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4h2b73$n6v@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:

> Note that no one has called Mr. Giwer an anti-Semite for pointing out
> that Meyer Lansky was Jewish and a mobster.  Which only goes to show
> that Jews can take criticism if the criticism is fair.

But Harry, in this case the criticism is manifestly unfair.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  2 15:09:44 PST 1996
Article: 25888 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Happy to oblige, Mr. Giwer!
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 23:12:38 GMT
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In article 
           cendbj@bonaly.hw.ac.uk "David Johnston" writes:
> Which one?

I think it was Mencap.
> 
> >and found that about half the population thought that the
> >"mentally defective" should be put down at birth. 
> 
> When was this "survey"? Can we see the figures? What was the question asked?

Don't be a sap Johnston. If you don't believe me ring one of the mental health
charities and ask them. This is hardly a debateable subject. Or didn't you
see that Panorama programme about premature babies last Monday?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar  3 23:06:55 PST 1996
Article: 25992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Black Nazis?
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 20:26:43 GMT
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I've just seen a rather interesting documentary on "civil rights". It 
included footage of Jesse Jackson in 1988. After this "Hymie Town" gaff
and his daring to speak up for the PLO, crowds of wailing and gnashing of
teeth Zionist fanatics were filmed chanting "Jesse Jackson, Black Nazi."

Heck Yale, I take back everything I said, you lovely Jews have really got
problems. Do you think JJ has built a gas chamber in his Washington HQ yet?
And what about Farrakhan. 


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar  3 23:06:56 PST 1996
Article: 25993 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 11:37:54 GMT
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> Jager's report tells of over 130,000 Jews, shot by one single
> "Einsatzkommando", during a five month period. A third of them are
> children, a third women. What does Baron think this documents
> proves then??

that a) certain Nazis engaged in creative arithmetic or b) that the Soviets
forged documents other than a lot of the dross that was adduced at the IMT.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar  3 23:06:56 PST 1996
Article: 25994 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is the Document, Lyin' Al?
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 11:55:07 GMT
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In article <02MAR96.14382185.0045@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
           T08O@UNB.CA "Keith Morrison" writes:

> Ah yes.  Would that be the book that "proves" that integration was
> in fact a Communist plot designed to weaken America?

Putnam says that the communists have made integration part of their plot. I
think that is fair comment. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar  3 23:06:57 PST 1996
Article: 25995 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Keren refuted
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 11:52:28 GMT
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You have persistently and maliciously accused me of lying. In particular you 
have accused me of lying about a) Kitty Hart; b) Hoessler and c) Bendel.

With regard to Hart; I made a genuine mistake over her "gassed baby " claim. 
This mistake was, unfortunately, made in my book on the Holocaust but
has subsequently been corrected in print. For confirmation of that
please contact Mike Stein, or the Attorney General, to whom your slimy
cousins referred the publication in question. Leaving aside my error Dan - or
lie if you wish - please explain to me and to the newsgroup how Hart's "hearsay"
claim - in your words, is evidence that a baby survived a gassing, or evidence
of anything at all.

Please explain too how Hart's claim that "soap was being made" from dead Jews
in Auschwitz is also proof or evidence of anything since this is also clearly
hearsay or more probably lies.

Hart also refers to "little babies" that were thrown alive onto bonfires and
says this made her sick. Another palpable lie. Please explain this Dan.

Re Hoessler, again, this was a genuine mistake, but the fact remains that 
a woman claimed to have been in the gas chamber and to have been taken out
by Hoessler. Please explain how Hoessler went into the gas chamber - crowded
with 2,000 people being put to death with Zyklon, and dragged out this woman,
Litwinska. Failing that, please concede that Litwinska lied or fantasised.

Re Bendel, let us accept your claim that when he referred to people being lined
up five at a time and shot through the neck that what he really meant was shot
one at a time. Please explain how and under what circumstances Bendel saw this.
I have now read his Belsen testimony - in the original files - and they do 
not expand significantly on the book. It is obvious to me from this that
Bendel was either repeating hearsay or making this up. Also re Bendel, please
explain to me his other testimony, namely that a thousand people an hour 
were disposed of in burning pits. This is not gilding the lily Dan, it is
outright lying by a Jew who was interned by the Nazis and considered this 
gave him carte blanche to perjure himself until he was blue in the face.

When you have answered all these points satisfactorily you may deign to 
accuse me of lying. But the point you miss Dan is that even if I did lie and
did so wilfully, the Jewish lies came first and they must be explained. Even
if I made it all up, you still have to explain a) the gassing of Litwinska
or b) the lies of Litwinska. Do you follow, Dan? 

Finally, I am most grateful for your troubling to 
proof-read my work. When I come to publish it - eventually - it will be
all the more potent for absorbing your criticisms. I intend also to give
you a credit in the acknowledgments.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:34 PST 1996
Article: 26016 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: United Nations
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 96 00:07:28 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <825811648snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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Somebody mentioned that the UN was not formed until 1945. I have in front of
me a piece of paper that refers to the United Nations War Crimes Commission
which was founded in October 1943. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:35 PST 1996
Article: 26017 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Happy to oblige, Mr. Giwer!
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 18:11:36 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <825790296snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <01MAR96.18406747.0029@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
           T08O@UNB.CA "Keith Morrison" writes:

> > And of course I presume you always use the term myocardial infarction
> >because the medical community has long since given up the term heart attack?
> >Shall we make a little list of the common words you use in place of the
>  "proper"
> >medical term?

Of course, and people don't "get cancer" they contract malignant neoplasm.
Frankly Keith you are every bit as much fun as a freakish homunculus germinated
outside lawful procreation.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:36 PST 1996
Article: 26018 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Happy to oblige, Mr. Giwer!
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 18:13:46 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <825790426snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> I see, Giwer, that you feel compelled to add your plugged-nickel to the
> thread. Fine. Now, Giwer, would YOU care to support your assertion with
> something a little more than Because You Say So? Perhaps the results of a
> few current polls on the subject maybe? Please be specific. Don't be
> bashful like Al in providing a verifiable cite for his bullshit. 

It's not bullshit at all, this is the way many people feel about Mongols.
Try raising the subject in conversation sometime. The Nazis were positively
benign when compared with some people today.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:36 PST 1996
Article: 26019 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 19:03:32 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <825793412snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4h38md$ffr@news.enter.net> <4h8be9$3qs2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <02MAR96.13865754.0045@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
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In article <02MAR96.13865754.0045@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
           T08O@UNB.CA "Keith Morrison" writes:
> No, it's that little problem the US has with allowing people in who
> have spent a vacation at one of Her Majesty's vacation homes for the
> socially maladjusted.  You know, one of the ones where you get to
> spend some time at the government's expense and where a privileged
> view even get to spend their whole lives.

Another attempt by these slimeballs to lure me into contempt of court by
commenting on ongoing legal proceedings. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:37 PST 1996
Article: 26020 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I dedicate this ode to Yale (wailing and gnashing of teeth) Edeiken
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 19:46:03 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <825795963snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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I wrote this years ago but it never saw the light of day; I dedicate it to you
Yale. Menachem Begin burns in Gehinom.


            MENACHEM BEGIN'S SONG


All through our history we've been so hated,
By anti-Semites, bigots, everyone,
By kings and commoners we've been berated,
By popes and heathens, but what have we done?
We've made the nations wealthy with our banking,  
And sided with oppressed folk thorough  and through,
Yet all we've ever got is blame, no thanking:
O, o, how hard it is to be a Jew.

Look what they did in Mediaeval Britain,
Expelled us, and they butchered us in York.
Do we deserve to be so cruelly smitten
Just cos we killed the Christ and don't eat pork?
We haven't all got phallic symbol noses,
We're not all stinking rich, and even you,
You hateful goyim, aren't all sweet as roses:
O, o, how hard it is to be a Jew.

The pogroms were so bad in Tsarist Russia,
In Poland too, those Slavs, they gave us hell,
And then there were the camps in modern Prussia,
Six million died, though many lived to tell.
Yet they are never satisfied these haters,
Not will they be until our Holy Land
Is wrenched from us by Arafat's Jew-baiters,
But we will fight upon the desert sand.

Against all odds we'll strive and overcome them,
And drive the Palestinian rag-bags out.
We've got brave men, (and U.S arms) to numb them,
And where it matters, we've got force and clout.
The media is still a kosher haven
Though since the Lebanon outrage they too,
(Like Western politicians) have turned craven:
O, o, how hard it is to be a Jew.

But life goes on, and still we've got our nation,
Despite the PLO men and Jehad;
We've got a deficit and high inflation,  
And things home and abroad are looking bad.
But when all's said and done, though life's no better
Nor are we worse off than in World  War Two,
For though it rains, we can't get any wetter:
It's always been so hard to be a Jew.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:38 PST 1996
Article: 26021 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cfa.org!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 19:02:16 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <825793336snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4h8be9$3qs2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> In article <4h38md$ffr@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
> said:
> 
> >>  >Sorry that the philosophy of our country is opposed to bigots like you
> but, as 
> >>  >I said before, you are not welcome here.  
> >>  
> >>  Well, _I'm_ certainly NOT going to invite him over! 
> 
> >       I was not referring to the population but the immigration law.  He is
> >barred by law from entering the U.S. 

Is this the same immigration law that lets in a slimeball like Gerry Adams,
the spokesman for the murderers of my countrymen? That includes Jews too Yale,
so think very carefully before you answer.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:38 PST 1996
Article: 26022 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Lyin' Al
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 19:15:50 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
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In article <4h8meo$m2j@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> 
>         Please back up your statements, you lying, Jew-hating son of a bitch.

And if you don't I'll stamp all over you, smash your ugly goy face in and
hound you out of this group, you fucking vile Jew-hating scum. How dare you
say anything unpleasant about us lovely Jews. You vile pig, Baron, you're just
the same as the other filthy anti-Semites who the ADL rightly identifies as
making up a fifth or more of the American population. You all hate us lovely
Jews and the more we stamp on your slimey faces the more you hate us. That
proves both how lovely us Jews us and how evil and worthless you are.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 08:27:39 PST 1996
Article: 26023 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cfa.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ZOGISRL 440197, "Dr. Keren," blows the lid off ADL investigation!
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 96 19:13:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 31
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In article <4h7v23$5u1@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> In article , 
> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >What the hell is Alex Baron claiming now? That every Nazi filth
> >posting here is an ADL agent? Hey, Kleim, Griswold, did you
> >hear this? How about "Racial Theorist", "Speedy", and all
> >the others? All "ADL agents", Baron?
> 


"Some do this in perfect good faith and honesty, and thus  unconsciously 
 help the enemies of their cause. Others, no  doubt,  as 
the  struggle develops, will actually be employed, often  unknowingly,  
by those very clever people, the big Jews, to  make  wild 
and  foolish attacks upon Jews in general, in order to  discredit 
anti-Semitism." - Sir Oswald Mosley writing in the  $Blackshirt$, 
October  3rd, 1936, warning against violent  anti-Semitic  propagandists.

"...the simplest and most effective of all 'black' operations  is 
to spit in a man's soup and cry 'Heil Hitler!'" - Sefton  Delmer, 
anti-Nazi propagandist, in his 1962 autobiography, $Black Boomerang$.
-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 17:22:22 PST 1996
Article: 26098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Germans
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 07:22:51 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <825924171snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825473265snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4h3amq$h5j@news.enter.net> <4hbp4i$8d7@prometheus.algonet.se> <3139b37c.1999160@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <3139b37c.1999160@news.pacificnet.net>
           tm@pacificnet.net "tom moran" writes:

> Henrik Bennback  wrote:
> 
> >What is ADL? An organisation?
> >
> 
>         Yup. Their organized to conspire for anything Jewish. They
> will tell you they are doing it for the good of America and that they
> are the vanguards of human rights, such as trying to get the congress
> to enact totalitarian measures and give our last dollar to Israel.
> 
>         ADL stands for - Always Dispersing Lies.

You filthy anti-Semite Mr Moran, you say the most truthful things.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 17:22:23 PST 1996
Article: 26099 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Warburg & the Nazis
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 07:40:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <825925245snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4hc5nc$i5@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

>    Such statements now having been given the lie, Schacht, who unlike
>    so many others retained at least a measure of integrity, told
>    Reichsbank personnel at a Christmas party: 'The deliberate burning
>    of Jewish synagogues, the destruction and looting of Jewish
>    businesses, and the ill-treatment of Jewish citizens was such a
>    wanton and outrageous undertaking as to make every decent German
>    blush with shame.' On another occasion, he remarked to a woman
>    dinner companion: 'My dear lady, we have fallen into the hands of
>    criminals. How could I have known this?'(IMT, vol. 12, p. 562)" 
>    (Conot, 175)

Schacht maintained "a measure of integrity" ?? He was never a Nazi and even
ended up in Dachau himself by the end of the war. He was totally exhonerated
at Nuremberg. Re Mr Warburg, have you perhaps come across the curious book
THE FINANCIAL SOURCES OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM? The Warburgs didn't like that
at all; check out Sutton's WALL STREET AND THE RISE OF HITLER.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  4 17:22:24 PST 1996
Article: 26100 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One more time boys and girls
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 13:07:50 GMT
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A number of people in this group - including Yale Edeiken - keep publishing
remarks about yours truly. I have said before and will say this for the final time:

I am currently engaged in legal action with the publisher of a magazine; a 
number of issues and allegations have been raised in this libel action concerning
myself and I have no intention of commenting on them here or anywhere until this
action is over, which may not be this year. I have already been cited once for
contempt of court and have no intention of this happening again. Nor have I 
any intention of satisfying your morbid curiosity. 

One thing I will say is that I have acted in person throughout these
proceedings while my opponent was - until December last year - represented
by one of the most prestigious law firms in the country. Yet I am still here.
We are now both acting in person. I am sure that Yale the Wail knows better than
I do why litigants and their lawyers part company.  

I will also say that Mark Taha - who does exist - issued a libel writ of his
own on February 14. His E-mail address is M_Taha@ABaron.Demon.Co.UK

All further comment on my alleged criminal activity now or at any time in the
past will be ignored until after this action is finished.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:19 PST 1996
Article: 26172 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Germans
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:16:43 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <826013803snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825473265snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4h3amq$h5j@news.enter.net> <4hbp4i$8d7@prometheus.algonet.se> <3139b37c.1999160@news.pacificnet.net>  <313aff9c.806518@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <313aff9c.806518@news.pacificnet.net>
           tm@pacificnet.net "tom moran" writes:
> > 
> >Tom:
> > 
> >Please explain and give examples of the ADL trying to get Congress to
> >eneact totalitarian measures.
> 
>         Their activity in trying to get "The Counter Terrorism"
> measures in. Their energetic conspiracy to maintain support for
> Israel. Their carrying dossiers on Americans that they illegally got
> from law enforcement agencies.  Thats enough for you now, purrfecto.

Mr Moran, please stop telling malicious truths with intent. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:20 PST 1996
Article: 26173 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:21:50 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <826014110snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hcb9o$2s9@news.enter.net> <4hebmf$qth@nimitz.fibr.net>
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In article <4hebmf$qth@nimitz.fibr.net> hmazal@txdirect.net  writes:

> And Mr. Baron continues to lie and lie and lie.  One wonders how he fared
> in his last attempt to separate decent and upright British citizens from their
> money...  Rumor has it that he did not do too well.
> 
> Harry W. Mazal OBE

Well, look what the cat dragged in. Where have you been Harry? Hope you didn't
go to Israel, you might get blown to Hell and realise what a wonderful, benign
sort of fellow I and my ilk are. If you think my "latest attempt" didn't go
too well I suggest you phone Russell Press or Central Books. Better still,
send an E-mail to my remaining protagonist editor@s-light.demon.co.uk and 
ask him.

I repeate for the final time; I have no intention on commenting on any 
allegations which touch on ongoing legal proceedings.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:21 PST 1996
Article: 26174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:24:01 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <826014241snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4h6966$10bi@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>  <825722128snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <825853074snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hehuv$jai@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4hehuv$jai@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:
> Assuming by a) you mean that the Nazis inflated their statistics
> to impress the folks back in Berlin, what do you suppose that
> officers in the field felt they stood to gain by saying they had
> killed more Jews?
> 
> Assuming by a) you mean that the Nazis back in Berlin inflated
> their statistics to impress the folks higher up, what do you
> suppose that bureaucrats felt they stood to gain by saying that
> more Jews had been killed?

Actually John I mentioned before that I haven't studied this subject in any
depth so don't feel qualified to comment on it. I think the documents Mr
Whitlock Porter republishes are very interesting though.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:22 PST 1996
Article: 26175 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Neo-Nazi spin on upholding of Canadian "hate-speech" law
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:30:42 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <826014642snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:   
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In article 
           ci882@FreeNet.Carleton.CA "Rubin Friedman" writes:

> > I've heard that students who failed to write papers that agreed with
> > Keegstra's unusual notions about Jews were given poor grades, though I
> > can't give a source on that at the moment.

There is a book on Keegstra. He is no kind of Jew-hater, but he was teaching
absolute garbage that has no place in the classroom. A bit like the current
UK Holocaust studies curicculum.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:22 PST 1996
Article: 26176 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:53:27 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <826016007snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4he5g8$81v@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4he5g8$81v@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> In article <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, 
> A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:
> 
> >Please explain too how Hart's claim that "soap was being made" from dead Jews
> >in Auschwitz is also proof or evidence of anything since this is also clearly
> >hearsay or more probably lies.
> 
> I can see how such a belief could arise, Mr. Baron, in spite
> of clear evidence that no such soap was made from dead Jews.
> That is not to say that it was not made elsewhere - Stutthof -
> but I do not believe it was done at Auschwitz.
> 
> I have, however, read stories of prisoners being routinely
> tormented by the SS or other staff, by being told that they
> would be made into soap. 

There is not a shred of evidence of this from Hart's book; she states point
blank that soap was being made from bodies in an adjacent room. It never
ceases to amaze me the lengths you in particular will go to to excuse obvious
lies. When the liars are Jewish.


> Since I believe these stories of such mental torment, I can
> readily accept that a witness could have believed it, and
> related it as true.

I believe therefore it is true.

> It is, after all, the convergeance of evidence upon which
> historical accounts are based. In this particular case, the
> convergeance of evidence suggests that the stories of soap
> production from dead Jews at Auschwitz were, and are, myths.

The convergence of evidence bullshit again. This is the convergence of 
rumours, urban legends and lies. It proves nothing except that your wanton
credulity is even greater than their imagination.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:23 PST 1996
Article: 26177 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws sue to kill Black baby
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:57:30 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <826016250snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hev10$uo8@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>
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In article <4hev10$uo8@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>
           EEGG87A@prodigy.com "A Huber" writes:

> Subject:ABC NEWS
> 02/28/96
> 
> L. I. Jewish Medical Center went to court this week to have the life 
> support respirator disconnected from baby Mariah, who is in a coma.  They 
> did not see it as financially viable to keep the baby alive. The African-
> American parents, Mr. & Mrs. Scoon, made a public plea to have their baby 
> kept alive.

This is obviously an attempt at mischief-making. What are the full facts 
behind this story. Come on Yale the Wail, this is your department.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:24 PST 1996
Article: 26178 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Carleton Putnam (was: Here we go 'gain)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:28:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <826014525snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hdf7r$fde@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4hdf7r$fde@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
           finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "Laura Finsten" writes:
> But Herr Oberunterweiselenfuehrer, I did read your message.  Your message
> says that this antisemitic businessman, Carleton Putnam, pulled together
> a bunch of shreds to create his racist diatribe.  

You dumb fuck. Where has there ever been a shred of evidence that Carlton
Putnam was an anti-Semite? You people make these things up as you go along.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:25 PST 1996
Article: 26179 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How come everything int the Protocols of Zion has come true.
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:39:39 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <826015179snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4h2kq2$b1f@news.ios.com> <825559261snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hd71u$d4l@news.nyu.edu>
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In article <4hd71u$d4l@news.nyu.edu> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> So let me get this straight -- there's a "Jooish Conspiracy" at AOL to 
> spread information about a "Jooish Conspiracy" but not the SAME "Jooish 
> Conspiracy" but rather a different one.
> 
> Gee, I can't figure out why people think you're nuts, Al......

No, what she - and others - claim - and what I have proved in my studies of
the SEARCHLIGHT ORGANISATION from public domain documents, is that some Jews
are so obsessed with white nationalism that they will go even to the lengths
of inciting anti-Semitic acts in order to discredit "racists". This by
the way is thoroughly documented from other sources, including my leftist
Laird Wilcox. The FBI also engaged in these sort of dirty tricks - including
against leftists - via COINTELPRO. These documents are now too in the pubilc
domain.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:11:26 PST 1996
Article: 26180 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:49:57 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 120
Message-ID: <826015797snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4he5at$b4e@access1.digex.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4he5at$b4e@access1.digex.net>
           mstein@access1.digex.net "Michael P. Stein" writes:

> >Hart also refers to "little babies" that were thrown alive onto bonfires and
> >says this made her sick. Another palpable lie. Please explain this Dan.
> 
>     Please explain your proof that it is a lie.  I do not see why this is
> impossible.  Remember, "Because! I! Say! So!" does not count as evidence. 
> 

Okay Mike, compare this with the following: 
 
"The first known accusation of ritual murder against Jews is that recorded by 
the historian Posidonius...he found a Greek captive in the Temple who told 
him that every seven years the Jews captured a Greek, fattened him up, killed 
him, ate parts of him, and took an oath of undying enmity against Greeks. 
Since the story is completely unbelievable..." 

This is from the book THE BLOOD LIBEL LEGEND. Please justify the last
sentence.

Hart did not give evidence at any trial as far as I am aware. Her claim is
a sentence in isolation in her book, no follow up comment, simply that she
saw little babies thrown onto bonfires - plural. Ask a police officer about
this. Her claim is bullshit.

> 
> >Re Hoessler, again, this was a genuine mistake, but the fact remains that 
> >a woman claimed to have been in the gas chamber and to have been taken out
> >by Hoessler.
> 
>     We've been over this already.  Hoessler denied being the man she saw 
> even though it would have been to his benefit to lie and give himself 
> false credit.
> 
> 
> >Please explain how Hoessler went into the gas chamber - crowded
> >with 2,000 people being put to death with Zyklon, and dragged out this woman,
> >Litwinska. Failing that, please concede that Litwinska lied or fantasised.
> 
>     First please document that the gas chamber had 2,000 people in it. 

This is the usual claim. Hundreds or even thousands at a time:

>     As for the rest, this has already been addressed.  The description
> sounds more like the residual effect of the lachrymogen from a prior
> gassing.  Given that the lachrymogen was a warning indicator added as a
> safety measure, and therefore would have to be detectable before the
> cyanide became lethal and at least as long as the cyanide remained
> dangerous, I would expect the warning indicator to linger beyond the time
> the cyanide was dangerous.  

But one of the arguments put forward by exterminationists is that this was
left out of Zyklon. It borders on the absurd to claim that Litwinska was
being gassed with cyanide, if not cyanide, then what was it? What do you
think, Mike? Did Litwinska lie or are we in the realm of the miraculous again?

> >Re Bendel, let us accept your claim that when he referred to people being 
> >lined up five at a time and shot through the neck that what he really 
> >meant was shot one at a time.  Please explain how and under what 
> >circumstances Bendel saw this.  I have now read his Belsen testimony - in 
> >the original files - and they do not expand significantly on the book.  
> >It is obvious to me from this that Bendel was either repeating hearsay 
> >or making this up.
> 

Like I said, Bendel's testimony in relation to the burning pits is 
physically impossible. Perhaps both you and Dan should heed the words of 
Arno Mayer, that rarest of creatures, an honest Exterminationist:

page 362: "Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and 
unreliable. 
page 363: "This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be 
influenced by subjective factors of great complexity.
page 363: "there is no denying the many contradictions, ambiguities, and 
errors in the existing sources."

Although he pours scorn on the Revisionists he takes Exterminationists to
task for wishful thinking, which is what your post is. Mayer says that

"the dogmatists feel driven to press the relatively few currently 
available sources, including the recollections of eyewitnesses and 
survivors, for corroborating evidence, and they tend to do so without evaluating their data 
with sufficient care." This is as good an admission that there is 
precious little evidence of an extermination programme.

It also exposes you for little better than Keren or McCarthy; I had hoped you
were different but apparently not so; you are prepared to accept any absurd canard
at face value provided it gives support to the Extermination thesis, or, in
Keren's case, acquits any Jew of lying. Yet by the same token you claimed or
inferred that my meeting with Irving's masters was a pack of lies. Whose story
is the more credible Mike, mine or Hart's? 

The other nonsense, one you, McCarthy and Morris peddle, is the "convergence
of evidence". What you are saying in effect is that because people repeat
the same stories -  sometimes apparently independently of each other - that they must 
be true. You can apply that to anything from UFOs to the Kennedy assassination.
Rumours and nonsense are rumours and nonsense however many times they are
repeated.

I note one thing you have not mentioned though, and that is my extensive
documentation in the other pamphlet of the way certain Jewish organisations
have lied about the Dachau "gas chamber".

Another thing is that the other pamphlet I sent you corrects the mistake I
made in my book, which proves that, unlike Keren, Baron is intellectually
honest and can admit when he is wrong. Keren has never made any similar 
admission.

Like I said Mike, I had expected more of you. You have sorely disappointed me.


-- 


Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar  5 21:28:02 PST 1996
Article: 20988 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Carleton Putnam (was: Here we go 'gain)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 08:28:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <826014525snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hdf7r$fde@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4hdf7r$fde@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
           finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "Laura Finsten" writes:
> But Herr Oberunterweiselenfuehrer, I did read your message.  Your message
> says that this antisemitic businessman, Carleton Putnam, pulled together
> a bunch of shreds to create his racist diatribe.  

You dumb fuck. Where has there ever been a shred of evidence that Carlton
Putnam was an anti-Semite? You people make these things up as you go along.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar  6 08:10:18 PST 1996
Article: 26256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.soviet,alt.current-events.russia
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk; Response to Mark Kaufman
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 01:27:09 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <826075629snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4h5eg7$cjj@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <4hffpu$7jv@aphex.direct.ca> <313BAE20.73D3@itn.is>
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In article <313BAE20.73D3@itn.is> eha@itn.is "Elias Halldor Agustsson" writes:
> Demjanjuk ... wasn't he the war criminal of Sobibor who was unjustly 
> accused of having been a war criminal of Treblinka?

If they had evidence that he was a "war criminal" of Sobibor they should have
charged him with that crime. Yale the Wail will tell you that you can't try
a man for one crime and convict him of another.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar  6 08:10:19 PST 1996
Article: 26257 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: United Nations
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 01:25:10 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <826075510snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825811648snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <03MAR96.16821116.0028@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> <4hhoj3$d63@news.nyu.edu>
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In article <4hhoj3$d63@news.nyu.edu> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> Keith Morrison (T08O@UNB.CA) wrote:
> : In article <825811648snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Alexander Baron
>   writes:
> : >Somebody mentioned that the UN was not formed until 1945. I have in front of
> : >me a piece of paper that refers to the United Nations War Crimes Commission
> : >which was founded in October 1943.
> 
> : Why yes, someone did say that.  His name is Matt Giwer.  I believe
> : he is on your side.

You mean he is a Libertarian, Social Crediter and non-Sectarian exposer of 
liars?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar  6 08:10:19 PST 1996
Article: 26258 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws starting WWIII
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 01:32:09 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <826075929snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hfafb$15h6@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> <313c5b65.5954364@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <313c5b65.5954364@news.pacificnet.net>
           tm@pacificnet.net "tom moran" writes:

>         Suicide bombers indicate a desperate situation. No where to
> turn to. No where to go. Nothing to lose. Suicide bombers.
>         The Jews in retaliation go and blow up the houses of the
> families and friends. Ah Jewish justice. It has the support of the
> U.S. Once those in Washington see that there is no protest in America,
> they can say "Why not do it here?'

Tom, I think you should be a little less Sectarian; my Rabbi friend - the one
who doesn't exist according to these pillocks - says there is no Arab-Jewish
conflict. We have bombers here but fortunately they're not as demented as these
suicide squads. Let's leave the hypocrisy and double standards to the Yale
Edeikens of this world. Murder is murder, period.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar  6 08:10:20 PST 1996
Article: 26259 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran Forges Testimony (Re: Auschwitz Engineers, I)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 01:35:19 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <826076119snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <3139c63e.6801197@news.pacificnet.net> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:
> Moran carried to a new extreme the "Baron-Giwer tactic", which
> consists of blatantly misquoting witnesses and/or Holocaust-related
> text. 

You're a lying slimeball Dan, and you still have to explain the testimonies
of Litwinska and Bendel. Oh, I forgot, Jewish lies don't count.

 
> Heck, maybe Baron *is* right... maybe these "revisionists" posting
> here are, indeed, "Zionist agents" who are trying to make
> "revisionists" look bad. But it seems that Baron himself is
> among them?!

The Revisionists say the same thing about Pressac with proper justification.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar  6 08:10:21 PST 1996
Article: 26260 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The ugly truth about the heroic struggle for "civil rights"
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 01:47:08 GMT
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I may have posted this before; Brown or no Brown, it destroys a myth or two.

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 18:18:38 0000
Subject: (no subject)

                 Selma to Montgomery, 30 Years Later

                           by Marian Evans

                        From May, 1995, issue

March, 1995 marked the 30th anniversary of the Selma-to-Montgomery
voting-rights march. The surviving leaders of the demonstration
recently met to commemorate what was one of the most effective
efforts of the civil rights era. The atmosphere was one of amity and
self-congratulation, in which it was taken for granted that the
marchers and their purposes were noble and their opponents were
despicable racists. In an act of contrition, Joe Smitherman, who was
mayor of Selma 30 years ago, presented the keys to the city to a
group of aging civil rights leaders.

Rituals like this firmly establish the today's view of who was right
and who was wrong. And yet, does Mr. Smitherman, who saw the
now-sanctified event as it really unfolded, not harbor even fleeting
reservations about the new America that the civil rights movement
created? Perhaps not. George Wallace, former governor of Alabama,
recently gave a framed photograph of himself to Rosa Parks, who
started the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955. He inscribed it "To a
great lady."

The 1965 demonstrations in Selma and Montgomery were part of a
massive campaign to secure voting rights for blacks. In the states
of the former Confederacy, it had been only during Reconstruction
that blacks had had more or less uncontested voting rights. In
Alabama, blacks were first given the vote under a state constitution
written in 1867 by Northerners and forced upon the state by the U.S.
Congress.

A new constitution, written in 1901, eliminated most blacks from
politics, by limiting suffrage to people who could read and
understand the U.S. Constitution, and who had been employed during
the previous year or who had paid property taxes. The new
constitution also required separate schools for black and white
children. Since that time, as in most of the South, the vigor with
which suffrage restrictions were applied to blacks varied from
region to region.

In 1965, black civil rights leaders seemed to be winning every
battle they fought. The Supreme Court outlawed school segregation in
1954, and the "sit-in" movement, begun in 1960, successfully
integrated many Southern lunch counters, restaurants, hotels and
churches. President Eisenhower used federal troops forcibly to
integrate public schools in Little Rock, Arkansas, and in 1962
President Johnson used them to overwhelm resistance to integration
at the University of Mississippi. The movement's greatest success,
however, had been the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which
prohibited discrimination in employment and public accommodation.

The national press was warmly sympathetic to black demonstrators and
their white supporters. The movement basked in an aura of great
moral superiority, and the obvious next step for what seemed to be
an unstoppable juggernaut was to secure unrestricted voting rights
for Southern blacks.

Martin Luther King, who led this stage of the movement, was by then
world famous. Having come to prominence only ten years earlier
during the Montgomery bus boycott, he was now a winner of the Nobel
Peace Prize and a frequent guest at the White House. He chose Dallas
County, Alabama as the target for demonstrations because it had been
particularly inhospitable to black voters. Although there were more
blacks than whites of voting age in the county, 28 white voters were
registered for every black. Selma, 50 miles from Montgomery, was the
county seat.

A Board of Registrars examined prospective voters, black and white.
It had a small office in the Selma courthouse and could handle no
more than 50 applicants a day. On January 18th, 1965, King and his
close assistant, Ralph Abernathy, led six or seven hundred people to
the courthouse and demanded that they be registered. There was
already a line of ordinary applicants, and the group was turned
away. The demonstrators marched back to their headquarters at
Brown's Chapel Church, and held a press conference,
claiming--correctly--that blacks had been denied registration.
Overlooked were the facts that blacks had been among those waiting
to be tested and that in the days before the demonstration a number
of blacks had been duly registered.

Similar nationally-reported exercises took place throughout the
months of January and February. King was constantly in and out of
town, flying around the country raising money and giving press
conferences. He returned to give speeches and lead marches.
Meanwhile, more and more northern whites trickled into town.

At the time, Selma had a population of 29,000 people, of whom 15,000
were black. It took only a small crowd to paralyze the town, and at
the height of the demonstrations approximately 11,000 outsiders were
swarming the streets. Selma's mayor, Joe Smitherman, complained that
for three months he spent three quarters of his time dealing with
out-of-town demonstrators. Selma police were swamped with complaints
of thievery, and townspeople were soon heartily sick of the
visitors, many of whom were drunk and left garbage wherever they
went.

Some Northerners came just to have a good time. Many were
"beatniks," who drifted across the country from one demonstration to
another. They had no money for hotels which were, in any case,
commandeered by the hundreds of journalists covering the
demonstrations. Many whites of both sexes found accommodation in
black churches and in the George Washington Carver Homes, the black
housing project.

Intimate mixing of the races in this fashion was unheard of in the
rural South, but even more shocking to the people of Selma was the
public sexual behavior of the demonstrators. If the accounts of what
can only be described as public debauchery were not given in sworn
affidavits by citizens, state troopers, and national guardsmen, they
would be difficult to believe (see following story). Residents of
Selma could be forgiven for beginning to wonder whether the
demonstrations were as much about public interracial copulation as
they were about voting rights. Many of the journalists were
disgusted by what they saw, and complained that candid accounts of
the demonstrators' behavior were edited out of the stories they
filed.

Language as well as behavior was edited. On one occasion, James
Forman, secretary of the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee
(SNCC), spoke at the Beulah Baptist Church in Montgomery. Addressing
a mixed-race group that included many ministers, nuns, and church
women, he said: "If the Negro isn't given his place at the table of
democracy . . . it's time for us to knock the f***ing legs off the
table." Some of the ministers expressed surprise at this language,
but Forman offered no apology.

A few minutes later, Ralph Abernathy tried to smooth things over by
saying, "I'm sure that God will forgive him, that the television
crews will delete it from their films, and newspapermen will not
print it." A beatnik came to Forman's defense: "What's wrong with
`f**k'," he asked; "It's a good old American word, and expressive."

There were demonstrations in Montgomery during this period as well.
On March 10, at about 8:00 p.m., approximately 100 people were being
harangued on a well-lit street a short distance from the state
capitol. One of the black leaders of the group then said in a loud
voice, "Everyone stand and relieve yourselves." Practically the
entire crowd, male and female, young and old, black and white, did
as they were told, as rivulets ran almost to the next block. Two
blacks were arrested for, according to a bystander, "particularly
lewd and offensive exposure of their private parts."

Adding to public revulsion for the demonstrators was the sight of
men and women in religious garb drunk in public and fondling each
other. The civil rights movement had always draped itself in
religion, and King made a point of giving ministers and priests very
visible roles. The presence of clerics was so useful that some of
the demonstrators dressed as priests or nuns appear to have been
impostors.

This may have been the case during a small demonstration in
Montgomery on March 16th. A group of 34 men, most dressed as
priests, arrived at the capitol late in the evening and insisted on
praying on the capitol steps. Finally, at 3:00 a.m. the police let
them say the Lord's Prayer on the bottom step. As they broke up to
leave, two photographers came running across the street. One of the
men dressed as a priest said to one, "You stupid son-of-a-bitch,
after all this time here, you didn't get a picture of us saying a
prayer on the bottom step." An Alabama state policeman said that
many of the "priests" swore like sailors and that he doubted more
than half were authentic.

It may have been the disgraceful behavior of false clerics that
prompted one of the three killings associated with the Selma
demonstrations. On March 8th, a white Unitarian minister from
Boston, James Reeb, was brutally clubbed to the ground as he left a
restaurant, and died two days later. The night before Reeb died, the
demonstration leaders held an all-night, out-door vigil to pray for
his recovery. Disgusted journalists noted that a number of young
couples at the rear of the crowd fornicated during the services.

About this time, Jimmie Lee Jackson, a black civil rights leader,
was shot and wounded in an altercation with police. Activists swept
him away, medical treatment was delayed, and the man died. The Chief
Deputy Sheriff of Dallas County thought the delay was deliberate. "I
believe they wanted him to die," he said; "They wanted to make a
martyr out of him . . . ."

The day after Rev. Reeb was clubbed, Selma demonstrators defied a
court order and set out to march the 50 miles to Montgomery. As they
crossed the Edmund Pettus bridge leading out of town, they were met
by a line of state troopers standing shoulder to shoulder. "This
march will not continue . . . ." boomed the public address system,
but there was deadlock for 15 to 20 minutes, while King and his
associates knelt to pray, and police pleaded with the demonstrators
to go home. When officers finally moved forward with night sticks
held horizontally and tried to push the demonstrators back, the
resulting mayhem ended in clouds of tear gas. Eighteen officers were
injured by flying rocks and bottles.

According to press accounts, the police had "whipped and clubbed"
unoffending demonstrators, and television pictures showed crowds of
fleeing blacks choking on tear gas. Reeb died the day after the
confrontation at the bridge. These two events were a tremendous
propaganda advantage for King, and they brought thousands more
demonstrators to Selma from the North.

A few days later, President Lyndon Johnson went before Congress and
evoked Reeb's name in a strong call for legislation to ensure voting
rights for blacks. He also ordered mobilization of the Alabama
national guard to protect a second attempt at a Selma-to-Montgomery
march, this one newly sanctioned by a federal judge.

Thus began, on March 21, 1965, the now-famous march. King,
Abernathy, and U.N. Undersecretary Ralph Bunche--also a Nobel Peace
Prize winner--took the lead down Selma's Sylvan Street. On the way
to the Pettus Bridge, the crowd marched past a record store, where
an outside speaker alternately blared "Dixie" and "Bye, Bye,
Blackbird." At the head of the procession a mixed group of young men
carried the U.S. flag upside down--the sign of distress. Many
demonstrators wore "GROW" buttons, which stood for "Get rid of
Wallace." Nearly two thousand Alabama National Guardsmen, 100 FBI
agents, 75 federal marshals, and dozens of state and county police
officers guarded the marchers.

Just outside Selma, the Citizens Council of America, an
anti-integration group, had set up posters showing King sitting next
to known Communist leaders at the Highlander Folk School in
Tennessee. The caption read, "Martin Luther King at Communist
Training School."

History books call this a "massive" demonstration and, indeed, some
11,000 people set off on the first leg of the journey. However, the
highway to Montgomery narrowed to two lanes shortly after leaving
Selma, and permission was granted for only 300 marchers on all but a
few miles of roadway. Most of the crowd therefore streamed back to
Selma.

Although it is impossible to know even their approximate numbers,
some of the demonstrators were shills. A few openly boasted that
they were in Selma because they had been offered food, money, and
sex. Dora Brown's unusual financial arrangements came to light when
the checks stopped coming. In a sworn affidavit she testified as
follows:

"I was at Brown's Chapel Church with the movement along with a blind
man and a one-legged man who were both white people. I am one-armed
and we were told at the time that we were the ones they needed
worst, since we were handicapped it would help the movement. We were
told that if we would make the march from Selma to Montgomery we
would be paid $100.00 per month plus food and clothes. . . . James
Gildersleeve would pay us."

"I have received three checks from Gildersleeve for $100.00 each but
now he has quit paying me."

Gildersleeve was not to blame. Rev. Frederick Reese, president of
the Dallas County Voters League, was arrested after other blacks
accused him of stealing thousands of dollars in movement funds.

Miss Brown's unhappy testimony continues: "Gildersleeve told me that
he couldn't pay me since Frederick Reese had gotten all the money.
Gildersleeve gave me one pound of lard, some greens, a watermelon
and $1.00 in money. He said that is all he could give."

It is not recorded whether Miss Brown or the one-legged white man
were among the select 300 who spent four nights on the road to
Montgomery. It is known that the evenings were characterized by the
now-usual drunkenness and fornication. On at least one occasion,
police officers prevented newspapermen from photographing the
revelry. And even among this inner circle, there were frequent
complaints about stolen clothes and missing bed rolls.

Most of the marchers slept in the open except for King, who set up
housekeeping in a trailer that was moved from camp to camp. There
are no reports on how he spent his evenings, but his inclinations
are now well known. His companion, Ralph Abernathy, was not a model
cleric, either. In 1958, a Mr. Davis was arrested for threatening
Abernathy with a hatchet because Abernathy kept trying to have sex
with Mrs. Davis. She testified in her husband's defense that
Abernathy had first seduced her when she was a 15-year-old member of
his congregation.

As the march went on, the press continued its adulatory, front-page
coverage. All around the country, supporters held sympathy marches
and worship services.

The night before the last leg of the trek, more than 30,000 people
gathered in a field a few miles outside of Montgomery for a free
concert. Harry Belafonte, Nina Simone, Sammy Davis, Jr., Billy
Eckstein, Mahalia Jackson, the Chad Mitchell Trio, and Frankie Laine
serenaded the crowd until nearly one in the morning.

On March 25, the 30,000 were joined by another 5,000 as King and
Abernathy led the march into Montgomery, up to the steps of the
state capitol. The city was festooned with Confederate flags, one of
which fluttered along with the state flag over the capitol building.
It was widely--and falsely--reported that not a single United States
flag flew in Montgomery that day. The Stars and Stripes waved, as it
always did, from a tall flag pole on the capitol grounds.

The leaders of the march asked to see Governor George Wallace, so
they could present him with a list of grievances. He refused to meet
them. The rest of the day was filled with speeches by Hosea
Williams, Roy Wilkins, James Forman, Ralph Bunche and other black
leaders. Joan Baez and Peter Paul and Mary were among those who
entertained the crowd, which finally broke up around four p.m. The
march was over. It took until midnight for sanitation crews to clean
up the mountains of trash demonstrators had left behind.

Late that evening, a third killing took place when a white civil
rights worker name Viola Liuzzo was shot to death as she was driving
between Selma and Montgomery. Both the press and President Johnson
were outraged, although accounts of the killing were often
incomplete (see story, page 7).

Given the sanitized view of the demonstrations that had been
broadcast to the world, Alabama congressman William L. Dickinson
undoubtedly met much skepticism on March 30 when he tried to convey
a different picture to his colleagues on the floor of Congress:

"Drunkenness and sex orgies were the order of the day in Selma, on
the road to Montgomery. There were many--not just a few--instances
of sexual intercourse in public between Negro and white. News
reporters saw this--law enforcement officials saw this . . . .

"Has anyone stopped to ask what sort of people can leave home,
family and job--if they have one--and live indefinitely in a foreign
place demonstrating? This is no religious group of sympathizers
trying to help the Negro out of a sense of right and morality--this
is a bunch of godless riffraff out for kicks and self-gratification
that have left every campsite between Selma and Montgomery littered
with whiskey bottles, beer cans, and used contraceptives."

The nation was profoundly uninterested. In fact, the
Selma-to-Montgomery march was probably one of the most effective
events in the entire civil rights movement. Unlike the "March on
Washington" in 1963, in which 200,000 people took part and where
King gave his "I Have a Dream" speech, the agitation in Selma and
Montgomery led directly to national legislation. The nation was
riveted to the march, and President Johnson constantly referred to
it in his push for a voting rights bill. The killings of James Reeb
and Viola Liuzzo were also a great stimulus to lawmakers.

The legislation passed and was signed into law in August, 1965. In
what would appear to be a direct abrogation of the reserved powers
specified in the Tenth Amendment, it prohibited all state tests of
voter literacy and education. It even authorized federal elections
examiners to register voters who had been rejected by state
authorities, and to patrol the polls to see that such people voted.
The law affected states outside the South, notably New York, which
had required that voters be literate in English. New York promptly
sued on Tenth Amendment grounds, but the Supreme Court ruled in 1966
against the literacy provisions--to great rejoicing among the
state's Puerto Ricans.

With a total of three deaths, the march was one of the most
sanguinary episodes in the civil rights period. However, very few
demonstrators were harrassed or assaulted. In retrospect, it is
surprising that there was not more violence.

As invariably happens in racial matters, a group of whites with
little experience of blacks saw fit to give instruction on race
relations to people with a great deal of experience. Northerners
invaded the South, a deeply conservative society, demanding that
Southerners change their way of life. To add insult to arrogance,
Northerners then proceeded publicly to violate some of the most
deeply felt norms of privacy and decency. The self-control--even
passivity--of the citizens of Selma and Montgomery is as astonishing
as the degeneracy of the demonstrators. Perhaps even Mayor
Smitherman, desperately trying to run a city overrun with disorderly
demonstrators, harbored thoughts of homicide.

Now, 30 years later, Selma is a sacred name, one of the stations of
the cross on the road to integration and racial equality.

The following excerpts are from sworn affidavits made by witnesses
to the events in Selma and Montgomery in March, 1965.

V.B. Bates, Deputy Sheriff of Dallas County: "To begin with, I saw
white females in from other counties, other states I believe,
building up their sexual desires with Negro males. After a few
minutes of necking and kissing, the Negro male would lead them off
into the Negro housing project. I watched this procedure many
times."

Black man, name withheld: "[M]en and women used this room [in the
Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee headquarters] for sex
freely and openly and without interference. On one occasion I saw
James Forman, executive director of SNCC, and a red-haired white
girl whose name is Rachel, on one of the cots together. They engaged
in sexual intercourse, as well as an abnormal sex act . . . . Forman
and the girl, Rachel, made no effort to hide their actions."

"During this same period, March 8, 9 and 10, a large number of young
demonstrators of both races and sexes occupied the Jackson Street
Baptist Church for approximately forty-eight hours. . . . On one
occasion, I saw a Negro boy and a white girl engaged in sexual
intercourse on the floor of the church. At this time, the church was
packed and the couple did nothing to hide their actions. While they
were engaged in this act of sexual intercourse, other boys and girls
stood around and watched, laughing and joking."

Corporal H.M. Brown, Alabama State Troopers: "I observed on many
occasions the so called men of the cloth, who were white, fondling
the breasts and buttocks of black female demonstrators. On numerous
occasions, I saw couples of the opposite sex and color leaving the
crowd, fondling each other and going into the houses and alleys
along Sylvan Street.

"Since 1961, I have observed mobs and demonstrations, but the crowd
of demonstrators in Selma, Alabama, was the lowest scum of the
earth. This gathering of demonstrators in Selma included the largest
crowd of sex degenerates that I have ever observed in one place in
my life. They had no morals or scruples and did not appear to care
who saw them during their orgies."

Captain Lionel Freeman, Alabama State Troopers: "One Negro who was
standing beside a priest and both standing about three feet from a
line of troopers, made several attempts to provoke a trooper into
hitting him. The Negro waved three dollar bills in the trooper's
face and then dropped them, saying `Why don't you pick them up, I
know you need it.' . . . . The Negro then said, `I'll sleep with a
white woman tonight.' The priest seemed to think this was real
funny."

"[S]everal newspapermen who were allowed to go to the rear of the
demonstration came back up to the front and told us they observed
white and Negro couples in the act of sexual relations. They told us
that they had sent the story and pictures home to their papers. One
told me that the only thing he recognized about his story when it
was printed was his name."

Lieutenant J.L. Fuqua, Alabama State Troopers: "I also saw Negro men
feel the breasts and butts of white girls, making no attempt to hide
this, but rather appearing like they wanted everyone to see them."

Charles R. McMillan, Selma policeman: "Both Negroes and white
demonstrators were bedding down side by side. A young teenage Negro
boy and girl were engaged in a sexual intercourse [sic] that was
interrupted by a newsman who attempted to take a picture of the
act."

Selma citizen: "I, Marion J. Bass, did, on the night of the 23rd of
March, 1965, see at the camp site of the Selma to Montgomery march,
a young white girl and a colored man having sex relations. They were
on the ground out in the open and did not try in any way to hide as
I walked within six or eight feet of them.

"There were many colored girls and white boys laying in the same
sleeping bags. I also saw a white girl about 17 years old and four
colored boys get into the back of a truck and close the doors. . . .
They were in the truck about 45 minutes and when they opened the
door to get out, the girl was dressing."

Lieutenant R.E. Etheridge, Alabama State Troopers: "The action and
movement of the two wrapped in the quilt left no doubt whatever that
they were having sexual intercourse. They were within 30 feet of the
main body of demonstrators, and in plain view of them. They remained
on the ground for about 20 minutes, got up and went toward Brown's
Chapel Church."

"On the morning of March 14th, at about 11:00 a.m. I saw a white
preacher with a Negro girl in the back seat of an automobile. He had
her breasts out of her blouse and was handling them."

"I observed white ministers on at least three occasions who were in
what appeared to be a very intoxicated condition."

First Lieutenant Samuel Carr, Alabama National Guard: "I hereby
further swear and attest that during such time of duty with my
National Guard unit, I personally saw one case of sexual intercourse
between a young white boy and Negro girl. I further swear and attest
that I saw occasions of public urination . . . ."

Cecil Atkinson, resident of Prattville, Alabama: "Between Selma and
the first stop, I observed both men and women relieving themselves
in public, all together and making no attempt to conceal themselves
at all."

"At one point I observed a young beatnik-type man with his collar
turned around to resemble a priest. He told me that it was `the way
to get along.' Another told me that he had been offered $15 a day,
three meals a day, and all the sex he could handle if he would come
down and join in the demonstration from up North."

Mrs. Nettie Adams, resident of Montgomery: "There were white and
Negro people all over the Ripley Street side of St. Margaret's
Hospital [in Montgomery on March 15] . . . . They were all kissing
and hugging. This one particular couple on St. Margaret's lawn was
engaged in sexual relations--a white woman (skinny blond) and a
Negro man. After they were through, she wiggled out from beneath him
and over to the man lying to the left of them on the lawn and
started kissing and caressing his face."

Back to first page





-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Mar  7 18:50:50 PST 1996
Article: 26519 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Sowell tells it how it is
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 23:05:23 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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                         THE HALLOWED MEN
  ("The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for
Social Policy", by Thomas Sowell, New York. Basic Books, 1995, 305
pages, hard-cover, $25.00.)

  The woridview of those who consider themselves to be the exalted
and the elite is assuredly neither common nor pedestrian. It is
vast and penetrating - or so they say. Their vision is
consequential and meaningful - much shrewder than possessed by
plain folks. In a way, this mind-set can be said to rule much of
the world.
  These select few know what is best for all of us commoners. That
is why they hold sway. To be sure, this would-be nobility fawns as
obsequiously before fashionable ideas as any ingratiating
courtiers ever did before the throne of some in-bred potentate of
yor&. But, despite being slavish followers, they relish the
reputation of avant-gardism, and place themselves above the crowd.
                         More than Philosophy
  Dr. Thomas Sowell offers more than an opposing point of view to
this elitist perspective. He also hits it with antitoxins capable
of relieving the body politic of many of the ills from which it
suffers. The empirical evidence he presents is so damaging to the
other side that it shows, ipso facto, why the elitists can't argue
their case honestly.  Moreover, Sowell, a senior fellow at
Stanford's Hoover Institution and a prolific author and writer on
both the academic and popular fronts, is always refreshing to read
for his clarity of expression.
  In The Vision of the Anointed. Sowell elaborates on a theme he
examined in his earlier book, "A Conflict of Visions" (1987). In
that work he discussed the istorical consequences of assumptions
about the nature of man -- contrasting those who would institute
sweeping social equalization with such true intellectuals as
Edmund Burke, who noted that "all men have equal rights, but not
to equal things." In matters of crime, to raise another point,
many would simply observe that man is fallible, a selfish creature
quite capable of doing evil; on the other hand, influential
English radical William Godwin (1756-1836) contended, "It is
impossible that a man would per'petrate a crime, in the moment
when he sees it in all its enormity."
  The political and ideological ramifications, over recent
centuries, of the conflicting underlying assumptions were the
central points in that earlier work. Sowell discussed the
influence in philosophy and social policy of men from Rousseau and
Voltaire to Fabians such as George Bernard Shaw; of econ-
mists such as John Kenneth Galbraith; and of legal politicians
such as Earl Warren. Some of the same characters appear in "The
Vision of the Anointed", but with an emphasis on the consequences
of the paramount mind-set in recent decades - in seemingly
disparate fields from sex education to crimital justice from the
policies of racial favoritism to income distribution.
   In the latest volume, Sowell's thesis concerns the gap between
the reality as seen by the benighted and the purview of the
anointed, to use the author's terms. These visions start from
different positions but in the case of the hallowed men, their
point of view predominates in modern American society.
   The "prevailing vision of our time" offers, says Sowell on a
metaphysical level, a "special state of grace for those who
believe in it. Those who accept this vision are deemed to he not
merely factually correct but morally on a higher plane. Put
differently, those who disagree with the prevailing vision are
seen as being not merely in error, but in sin. For those who have
this vision of the world, the anointed and the benighted do not
argue on the same moral plane or play by the same cold rules of
logic and evidence."
                    A Pattern Repeated
   Selecting examples of policies foisted on society by the elite,
Dr. Sowell demonstrates similarities in their patterns of failure,
whether involving poverty, "sex education," or crime. First, comes
the "crisis," to be assumed even if one doesn't exist, that
demands immediate attention; then, the anointed announce which
"solution" must work, ignoring or denigrating those who criticize
their plan of action; third, after the policies are put in place,
they have detrimental results; and, lastly, is the response. (DB
note: This is the classic Hegelian Dialectic so successful for
advancing this and other causes.) The critics, who predicted what
would happen, may be dismissed as "simplistic"; no burden of proof
is placed on the proponents of the failed plan (that falls on the
critics).
   In the case of sex education (which, as the author shows, isn't
as much about the facts of life as it is about indoctrinating
children with attitudes often opposed by their families), this
pattern held. The  crisis, supposedly a need for more
contraceptive education and prevention of sexually transmitted
diseases, came at a time when rates for both teen fertility and
venereal diseases were on the decline. Nevertheless, federal money
for "family planning services" increased from $14 million in 1968
to $279 million just a decade later. Birth rates among unmarried
girls then shot up, and abortion rates doubled.
  In an unusual bit of candor, Sargent Shriver, former head of the
Office of Economic Opportunity  admitted in 1978: "Just as
venereal disease has skyrocketed 350 percent in the last 15 years
when we have had more clinics, more pills, and more sex education
than ever in history, teen-age pregnancy has risen." That didn't
stop proponents of even more "sex education."
  In one instance (and not an isolated one), smut was inflicted on
junior-high students with filmstrips of homosexual couplings, a
program with warning instructions against being shown to parents.
Parents who learned of the indoctrination and protested, writes
Thomas Sowell, "were quickly labeled `fundamentalists' and
`right-wing extremists,'  even though they were in fact affluent
Episcopalians in Connecticut. Here is an almost textbook example
of the vision of the anointed, preempting the decisions of parents
as to when and how their own children shall be introduced to sex -
and dismissing out of hand those with different views."
    Sowell makes a similar case with poverty, which was falling
for years before federal spending on the poor increased
dependency, whereupon proponents argued that had their schemes not
been put into place things would have been much worse. Likewise
with crime: The murder rate was going down rapidly before the
takeover by the supposed "rehabilitators," the hand-cuffers of the
police, and the likes of former Attorney General Ramsey Clark.
Whereupon, the murder rate jumped dramatically, becoming more than
twice as high in 1974 than in 1961. Since the relationship and
evidence between theory and what it brought about was not examined
(by the anointed, at any rate), none of the failures restrained
the elitists.
                    Lying with Numbers
   Among the targets Sowell hits are phony statistics alleging
racial discrimination in granting mortgages; he also takes on
figures claiming to prove that if there is any income difference
between certain groups, this differential must be the result of
bias. In the case of the mortgage study, done by the Federal
Reserve flank of Boston, applicants' net worth, credit history, or
existing debts were not even originally factored in -- making the
study worthless for anything but what it was: an excuse to charge
 banks with discrimination.
   In regards to the income of black Americans, Sowell points out
that relevant information is often excluded, such as the fact that
family and house hold size among blacks has been declining. On a
per-family basis, real black income increased but seven per-
cent between 1967 and 1988; but on a per-person basis, blacks in
1988 were earning 81 percent more than they had in 1967. The
anointed, of course, prefer to use the family data. Yet Sowell
shows that by 1981, in black and white families where both the
father and mother were college-educated and working, blacks were
earning slightly more than whites.
   Sowell is not among the blacks cited by the anointed. He must
be too veracious. He directly puts the lie to the absurd claim
that slavery can be used as an excuse for unwed teen-age pregnancy
among blacks: Just one generation after slavery was abolished,
there was a higher percentage of black adults who were married
than whites. This continued through every census until 1940. Why
the dramatic change thereafter? Might there be a causal
relationship to the policies of the anointed? There was similar
sexual liberalization in Sweden, Soweli notes, where unwed
motherhood also jumped; results there could hardly be laid at the
feet of either race or slavery.
                     Mascots and Targets
  How certain groups are treated by the anointed is reflective of
how they fit within the mind-set. Eschewing elitist terminology,
Sowell examines some "mascots" who are useful to the elitists,
such as vagrants, criminals, and the carriers of contagious
diseases. While the author is extremely judicious in his use of
language, and hardly inflammatory, it is a sign of the times that
such straightforward terms seem blunt.
  In the case of AIDS, official emphasis has been placed    in
contrast to other venereal diseases - on how it can not be
transmitted (though some warnings proved untrue); false assurances
have been given; punishments have been meted out to medical
personnel who try to protect themselves; and the supposed rights
of the carriers have been placed far above that of society at
large.
  In the case of a "target" such as nuclear power - against which
the anointed have waged a long campaign - no exaggeration of
danger can be too large. But mascots are treated very differently,
Sowell notes that many of the very people "who spread alarm over
remote possibilities of dangers from pesticides or nuclear energy
are among those most willing to accept dangers from AIDS
carriers." Certain manufacturers, even if their products are
misused, are liable for lawsuits backed by the anointed ones.
  When religion is the target, words are given meanings they never
had before. The Constitution is stretched beyond recognition, as
the author shows in his revealing look at the legal arena. As
Sowell recalls, the Supreme Court has repeatedly "engaged in
hand-wringing over nativity scenes in public places at
Christmastime," despite the fact that the phrase upon which this
concern is allegedly based, that of an "establishment of
religion," is not "some esoteric expression from a philosophy
seminar but something very ordinary and personally experienced by
those who wrote the Constitution."
  Dr. Sowell, in building his treatise, naturally doesn't stray
too far from his premises. This reviewer, and no doubt many
readers, can find points upon which to differ. There will be some,
including perhaps those who consider some social disorders to be
the result of more calculated actions and planning than here
posited, who might find the arguments about selective visions not
severe enough. But overall, make no mistake this work and Sowell's
insights are forceful and perceptive. 
                              Review by WILLIAM P. HOAR
   
(This review reprinted from the March 4, 1996 "NEW AMERICAN".
"THE NEW AMERICAN", Box 8040, Appleton, WI 54913/1-800-727-TRUE
FAX:414/749-3785. 50 issues (1 year) $39.00.)



-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:13 PST 1996
Article: 26687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!gatech!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.soviet,alt.current-events.russia
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk; Response to Mark Kaufman
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:32:18 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <826252338snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4h5eg7$cjj@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <4hffpu$7jv@aphex.direct.ca> <313BAE20.73D3@itn.is> <826075629snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hkbtu$i32@larry.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <4hkbtu$i32@larry.cc.emory.edu>
           libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu "william c anderson" writes:
> Precisely.  That's why the Israeli Supreme Court overturned Demjanjuk's
> conviction.  Do you suppose they have gentile judges on the ISC, Al?
> I mean, after all, we know that no Jew could ever possibly hand down
> a decision contrary to the will of Organized Jewry...

I have never said that; I have also said that Jews have the right to organise
the same as everyone else, but they can't have it both ways. If they stamp 
all over people's faces they have no right to demand that people like them.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:15 PST 1996
Article: 26688 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Carleton Putnam (was: Here we go 'gain)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:25:17 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <826251917snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hdf7r$fde@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <826014525snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hkgmd$d6e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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In article <4hkgmd$d6e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
           finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "Laura Finsten" writes:
> "...Race and Reason, written by a prominent businessman named Carleton
> Putnam.  The book was an anti-integrationist tract that explicitly
> placed the blame for this subversive idea, and the equally subversive 
> idea of egalitarianism, upon a conspiracy of communists and Jewish 
> anthropologists."  Jonathon Marks, "Human Biodiversity: Genes, Race,
> and History", p.57.  Aldine de Gruyter Publ. 1995.
> ISBN 0-202-020339-0

Is that Jonathan Marks, Karl Marx or Groucho? Putnam correctly identified the 
Boas school of largely Jewish cultural anthropologists as the subverters
of race science. He quoted Professor Heuse thus:

"...we can only hope that precious time will not be lost in recognizing the 
fallacy of equalitarian anti-racism...In our effort to respect the full 
complexity of bio-physical and bio-sociological human phenomena, we often 
meet opposition from Jewish academicians who pose as champions of egalitarianism....
These champions, whose power and cleverness we admire, often believe that in 
denying race and racial psychology, they suppress at one and the same time 
both racism and anti-semitism. We are indeed surprised at their naive and 
erroneous belief." 

That sums up Putnam's position; personally I think he is far too charitable.

> He describes what was then the view of modern anthropology as a
> "deceptively false ideology". Ibid., p.16

Too true.
 
> I draw your attention to his use of the words "cleverly", "infiltrated",
> "enthroning", and "deceptively false ideology" as very illuminating 
> in this context, particularly given what follows.  In his effort to 
> understand how modern anthropological claims came about, Putnam says, and 
> I quote again from his book "Race and Reason":
> 
> "Boas, I knew, was considered the founder of the modern vogue, and I
> deliberately began studying his books before learning, from people who
> had known him over many years, the facts about Franz Boas himself -
> *his minority group background*, his arrival from Germany in 1886, his
> association with Columbia in 1896, his earlier nonequalitarian views on
> race, his change of heart in the 1920s (the date will have significance
> later), *the names of his students - Herskovits, Klineberg, Ashley
> Montagu*...." Ibid., p.18 (emphasis added)

Not to mention the fact that he was affiliated with dozens of communist fronts.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:15 PST 1996
Article: 26689 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Carleton Putnam (was: Here we go 'gain)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:27:49 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <826252069snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hdf7r$fde@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <826014525snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hkgmd$d6e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>  <07MAR96.01844256.0034@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
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In article <07MAR96.01844256.0034@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
           T08O@UNB.CA "Keith Morrison" writes:
> If Putnam is basing his beliefs purely on scientific fact why did he
> feel the need to mention what religion the above happened to be born
> into?  Obviously, he thought it meant something.  So tell me, why
> did he list a bunch of people he disagreed with and then
> *specifically* mention that they were JOOOOOOS, hmmm?

Putnam was merely stating that Boas and his crowd did what the 
Exterminationist Jews and goyim in this newsgroup: they place ideology on
a higher plane than truth. As people in this group and elsewhere - including
Jews - make the same claim about Revisionists, often dishonestly and distorting
the truth in the process, I think this is fair comment.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:16 PST 1996
Article: 26690 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:13:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <826251224snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hcb9o$2s9@news.enter.net> <4hebmf$qth@nimitz.fibr.net> <826014110snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hkfqr$6j4@news.nyu.edu>
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In article <4hkfqr$6j4@news.nyu.edu> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:
> Except to make unsupported allegations concerning your *success*, when 
> all you had to do was post a shred of factual info on its sales.

I can't comment publicly but if you'll mail me a couple of IRC's I'll send
you a copy of the court order. That offer goes to everyone in this newsgroup.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:17 PST 1996
Article: 26691 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:17:00 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <826251420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <825853074snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hehuv$jai@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <826014241snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> Alexander Baron   wrote:
> 
> # Actually John I mentioned before that I haven't studied this 
> # subject in any depth
> 
> Not this subject, and not any other subject.

Oh yes, quite a few others. Like the laws of physics which clearly don't 
apply to your version of history.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:17 PST 1996
Article: 26692 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Neo-Nazi spin on upholding of Canadian "hate-speech" law
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:28:41 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <826252120snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4hkck8$l8c@larry.cc.emory.edu>
           libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu "william c anderson" writes:

> Bercuson, David and Douglas Wertheimer, _A Trust Betrayed_, Doubleday, 
> 1985
> 
> How anyone could read it and conclude that Keegstra is "no kind of 
> Jew-Hater" is completely beyond me.

True reading KEEGSTRA by Mertl and Ward; it is very fair.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:18 PST 1996
Article: 26693 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How come everything int the Protocols of Zion has come true.
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:34:53 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <826252493snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4h2kq2$b1f@news.ios.com> <825559261snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hd71u$d4l@news.nyu.edu> <826015179snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4hkvd0$bck@news.nyu.edu>
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In article <4hkvd0$bck@news.nyu.edu> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

>  A cite, Al!  Just one!  Something verifiable!  A quote!  Anything!
> I know you like making stuff up, but if you ever want to be taken 
> seriously, things like citation and quotation are important!
> 
> And I still maintain my summary of what you said is accurate, and you 
> didn't refute that.....
> 

You can read CRYING WOLF by Laird Wilcox or you can read my book LIARS OUGHT
TO HAVE GOOD MEMORIES which documents from the public domain how a notorious 
anti-Semite named Ray Hill was used by this organisation to incite criminal
acts and racial hatred. There's plenty of other stuff too.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:19 PST 1996
Article: 26694 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:35:51 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <826252551snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> In article <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > But the point you miss Dan is that even if I did lie and did so wilfully, 
> > the Jewish lies came first and they must be explained.
> 
> No, Baron. Your accountability for your lies are not dependant on anything
> else but you for making them- and you for explaining them. Nor does your
> vain and dishonest attempts to deflect the opprobrium you so richly
> deserve change this in the least. 

Now please explain Bendel's testimony.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:19 PST 1996
Article: 26695 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:41:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <826252864snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4he5at$b4e@access1.digex.net> <826015797snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:
> No, idiot. She gives a date which is before the large gas chambers of
> Kremas II and III were built. She's obviously referring to the much 
> smaller gas chambers of "Bunker I" and "Bunker II", which could not
> hold anywhere near 2,000 people. The smallest among them could
> hold perhaps a 100 people or so, as I recall.
> 
> See what your problem is? You cannot do research. 

>Thanks again Dan; I won't be going back to the PRO for a few weeks but it
will be a couple of years before I publish and I'll give you a credit.

>>You haven't got
> the intelligence, you haven't got the objectivity, you haven't got
> the patience. You're a silly little propagandist, who is failed,
> again and again, by his lack of talent and lack of work.

I'm a propagandist? Dan Jews can do no evil Keren calls me a propagandist?

Okay. So explain how she was fished out of this gas chamber which had only
a hundred people in it.

> I know your type, Baron; I've seen it in universities, when I
> was a TA and now, when I teach. It's the stupid, loudmouth,
> bad student who never makes it past the first courses, who 
> fails again and again and quits in anger, still certain he's the 
> smartest fellow in the class. 

Dan, my attorneys have been telling me for months what a splendid litigator
I am; I constantly remind them that it is best to be humble, and I always
bow to their superior knowledge whenever there is a dispute.

>We've all ran into your type, here
> and there; the paranoid little fool, who blames the world for his
> failures.
> 
> # But one of the arguments put forward by exterminationists is 
> # that this was left out of Zyklon. 
> 
> WHAT?
> 
> Mike was talking about the irritant. You really don't have a clue,
> right?
> 
> # It borders on the absurd to claim that Litwinska was
> # being gassed with cyanide, if not cyanide, then what was it?
> 
> He told you. The irritant.

She was being "gassed" with the irritant alone?

> # Like I said, Bendel's testimony in relation to the burning pits is 
> # physically impossible.
> 
> Because you say so? You're an expert on burning corpses? This
> is just unbelievable, the way you throw these "arguments" around.

Bendel claimed that the pits disposed of a thousand bodies an hour. Ironically, ou
 yourself have proved this can't be done by the photos you pointed to in INSIDE THE 
VICIOUS HEART. These are charred remains of corpses which obviously don't burn
very efficiently at all in the open.

> # I note one thing you have not mentioned though, and that is
> # my extensive documentation in the other pamphlet of the way certain 
> # Jewish organisations have lied about the Dachau "gas chamber".
> 
> There was - there still is, actually - a gas chamber in Dachau.

Telling porkie pies again Dan. The "gas chamber" which was exhibited in 1945
and which was palmed off on the goyim by the Board of Deputies in Britain and 
in South Africa was a delousing chamber, even Pressac admits that. These lies
were used by two Zionist slimeballs: Suzman and Diamond - to ban DID SIX MILLION
REALLY DIE? in South Africa. I have documented this. Ask Mike Stein.

> There's a letter from Rascher to Himmler, suggesting to gas
> people in it. 

Next time you quote that letter make sure you don't misquote it. It doesn't 
say what you claim it says. I'm not the only one who can misread.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:20 PST 1996
Article: 26696 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws starting WWIII
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:45:02 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <826253102snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hi9ir$nkt@wi.combase.com> <4hiqnf$g20@news.enter.net>
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In article <4hiqnf$g20@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:
>         I suggest you review the forfeiture and confiscation laws in the U.S.  
> You might be surprised.
> 
>         --YFE
> 
For once I am in agreement with Yale the Wail, but how about campaigning to repeal
civil asset forfeiture rather than using it as an excuse to claim that America
is no worse than Israel? Incidentally, we've got that here now to some extent.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:21 PST 1996
Article: 26697 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran Forges Testimony (Re: Auschwitz Engineers, I)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:49:19 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> I'm a "lying slimeball"? Alex admits he totally and completely 
> distorted testimonies, right? He admits he posted testimony which
> DOES NOT EXIST, right? He says it was a "mistake"... I don't
> believe anyone can do something like this by "mistake", certainly
> not so many times.

Which has since been corrected in print, check with Mike Stein. Once again,
I thank you for correcting my palpable mistakes and hope you will continue
to do so.

> # and you still have to explain the testimonies
> # of Litwinska and Bendel.
> 
> I relate to these in my replies to the "Keren refuted" thread. But,
> what does this have to do with Baron's lies?

Litwinska lied through her teeth and so did Bendel. Baron posted an error
which was corrected. Bendel and Litwinska's lies were given on oath. That's
the difference, but the point is Dan, even if I had lied you would still have
to explain their lies. And you can't.

Now Dan, bellow the truth you hate: Litwinska and Bendel lied. Right?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Mar  9 08:46:22 PST 1996
Article: 26702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Germans
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 02:08:46 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 34
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <826250926snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825473265snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4h3amq$h5j@news.enter.net> <4hbp4i$8d7@prometheus.algonet.se> <3139b37c.1999160@news.pacificnet.net>  <313aff9c.806518@news.pacificnet.net> <4hiiu4$ro2@shiva.usa.net>
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In article <4hiiu4$ro2@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:

>         Their energetic conspiracy to maintain support for Israel.
> 
> Their support for Israel is no conspiracy -- everyone knows about it!

Conspiracy: combination of persons for an evil or illegal purpose - Sir
William Blackstone.

> Apparently, in Mr. Moran's intolerant world everyone has the right to
> lobby Congress and support their favorite project -- everyone except
> Jews, that is!

Mr Katz admits Jews (his kind of Jews) support Israel. Supporting America
might be a good idea.
 

> The ADL did not know that one of their indeendent operatives was
> getting information illegally.  The ADL cooperated fully with the
> investigation and was not taken to court for any criminal
> wrongdoing.

Mr Katz, your pathetic apologies for these hatemongers and liars has 
lowered my once high opinion of you. I presume you haven't read J. Edgar
Hoover's report on the ADL.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 10 06:57:49 PST 1996
Article: 26713 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 02:46:05 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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Message-ID: <826339565snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hcuqe$2kk2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4hec2f$qth@nimitz.fibr.net> <4hnf56$2n0i@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4hnf56$2n0i@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:
> >Plus, of course, Mr. Baron hand hardly afford to return to Leeds, let
> >alone come to this country.
> 
> One would think that Mr. Baron would rush to correct (or explain) the record
> on this matter.  Do you mean he is not only forbidden to enter the United
> States, but also forbidden to enter parts of England?

You expect me to explain these demented idiots? 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 10 06:57:50 PST 1996
Article: 26714 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 03:04:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 183
Message-ID: <826340644snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> Too many "mistakes", Alex. When one makes so many "mistakes",
> people get suspicious. Moreover so because it is hard to
> understand how one can totally and completely distort text "by
> mistake". In short: I don't believe you. 

Then fuck you. The big differences are that a) my mistakes are admitted and
corrected promptly while b) Hart's et al's "mistakes" are made either under
oath or repeated incessantly. 

In any case, as I have repeatedly pointed out, Hart's gassed baby claim
proves nothing, at best it was a rumour or at best hearsay. Rumours don't 
prove anything. As to Bendel et al, these haven't yet been published.

> 
> # This mistake was, unfortunately, made in my book on the Holocaust but
> # has subsequently been corrected in print. For confirmation of that
> # please contact Mike Stein, or the Attorney General, to whom your slimy
> # cousins referred the publication in question.
> 
> My "slimy cousins"? You can always tell when Alex gets mad. It must
> annoy him to have his lies exposed. But whatever became of "Keren,
> you're one dumb Jew" etc?

No, I am referring to perfidious Jews; you're not particularly perfidious
but you are both dumb and intellectually dishonest.

> 
> # Leaving aside my error Dan - or lie if you wish - please explain
> # to me and to the newsgroup how Hart's "hearsay" claim - in your
> # words, is evidence that a baby survived a gassing, or evidence
> # of anything at all.
> 
> It is evidence. It is something that those who were there saw. You
> were not there. You know nothing. Zero. Zilch. You just claim
> that practically each and every survivor of the Holocaust is a
> liar. But you are the liar.

No. This time the mistake is yours. Hart never saw this baby "gassed", this 
was "hearsay" remember? Or rumour. You pointed that out yourself.
> 
> # Hart also refers to "little babies" that were thrown alive onto 
> # bonfires and says this made her sick. Another palpable lie. 
> 
> Again, it's a "lie" because Alex Baron, who was never in Birkenau
> during WW2, says it's a "lie". There are many testimonies about
> people being burned alive in the "cremation ditches

Dan, the fact that there were many of them doesn't make this particular
one true or any of them true. This is a sentence in isolation in Hart's book.
When did she see this? When she was sunbathing in front of the crematorium
perhaps? Why do you need to believe this Dan?
 
> Baron's countrymen incinerated alive *hundreds-of-thousands* of
> German civilians in WW2. And we're supposed to believe the SS
> couldn't have done things like that? Baron admits the SS burned
> people alive in other camps, and he refuses to believe they did
> it in Auschwitz-Birkenau? Why? BECAUSE! That's why.

No Dan, what I said was that burning people alive was not part of any
"extermination programme". Furthermore, the bodies you alluded to in 
Abzug's book were thoroughly charred but were not destroyed. Obviously
if thousands had been burnt a day in the pits in Auschwitz they would have
left behind a great deal of evidence. Which doesn't exist for the obvious
reason.

> 
> # Re Hoessler, again, this was a genuine mistake, 
> 
> Sorry. I don't believe it was a "mistake".

Then fuck you.
> 
> # but the fact remains that a woman claimed to have been in the gas 
> # chamber and to have been taken out by Hoessler. 
> 
> Actually, she said Hoessler was outside when she was taken out,
> not that he personally took her out. But let's go on.

No, Litwinska said Hoessler took her out of the chamber. Hoessler said that
he took a woman out of a truck who was on her way.
 
> # Please explain how Hoessler went into the gas chamber - crowded
> # with 2,000 people being put to death with Zyklon, 
> 
> You fool. She testified to a gassing in 1942, before the big gas
> chambers were built. Her testimony makes it obvious she's 
> referring to the so-called "Bunker I" or "Bunker II". These had
> a few rather small gas chambers. It was probably 100 people or
> so, not 2,000. This touches on one of your major problems: you
> hardly know anything about the history of the Holocaust.
> 
> # and dragged out this woman, Litwinska. Failing that, please
> # concede that Litwinska lied or fantasised.
> 
> The testimony does describe something which, I agree, sounds
> strange. But, I guess that's the thing about a place like Auschwitz;
> many strange things happened there. It was, for sure, no ordinary
> place. 

So your "evidence" is that lots of strange but true things happened?



> If the people in the chamber were already in the stage that they
> could hardly move any more, if the gas chamber was rather small
> (as we know it was), this could take place. Another possibility,
> suggested by Mike Stein, is that what Litwinska described took
> place due to the effect of the irritant in the Zyklon, which was
> still in the chamber from the previous gassing.
>
Oh boy?
 
> # Re Bendel, let us accept your claim that when he referred to
> # people being lined up five at a time and shot through the neck
> # that what he really meant was shot one at a time. 
> 
> You are, indeed, a malicious liar if I have seen one. Bendel did
> not even hint that five were shot with a single bullet. It was
> your idea. The text, obviously, doesn't say that. 

Not so obviously. Before you call me a liar, read Pressac's analysis of some
of Bendel's testimony. He says liar too, only more diplomatically.


> # Please explain how and under what circumstances Bendel saw this.
> 
> He saw it in Auschwitz, evidently. I guess I have to tell the
> exact coordinates where he stood when he saw it? What?
> 
> # It is obvious to me from this that Bendel was either repeating 
> # hearsay or making this up. 
> 
> Yep, here we go again. Everybody who was in the camps is lying,
> only Baron - who was never in the camps - knows the truth. Why?

No Dan, lots of people told the truth, but when they told the truth they
adduced no evidence of gassings. Bendel claims in one of his testimonies that
he saw hundreds of Sonderkommando shot before his eyes.
> 
> BECAUSE BARON SAYS SO!!!

So it was true because Bendel said so?

> 
> # Also re Bendel, please explain to me his other testimony, namely 
> # that a thousand people an hour were disposed of in burning pits. 
> 
> Alex, are you an expert on burning corpses? the SS-men were. Moll,
> Blobel - they knew more about it than you. Did you even burn
> corpses? Were you ever under pressure to burn many corpses as
> fast as you could? The SS was under such pressure. They had an
> army of slaves to do the job; they had a lot of experience; they
> used various chemicals to speed the process up. I guess they did
> it pretty fast. How fast? I don't know. Was Bendel standing with
> a watch, taking times? I guess not. He estimated. Perhaps he
> erred. I don't know. The question is, what do *you* know?
> 
> # This is not gilding the lily Dan, it is outright lying by a Jew 
> 
> BECAUSE BARON SAYS SO!!!

No Dan. Try burning a thousand or even a hundred bodies an hour in open
pits. It can't be done, it's a proven fact Dan. Bendel lied through his 
teeth, and you are endorsing his lies.

> 
> # I intend also to give you a credit in the acknowledgments.
> 
> I hope that even you are not such a low-life scum so as to 
> portray me, even implicitly, as a "revisionist". 

But Dan, you ARE revising.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 10 06:57:50 PST 1996
Article: 26715 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 03:06:48 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> Smaglewska, before the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in
> 1946, DID testify to such. She said "... When the extermination of the
> Jews in the gas chambers was at its height, orders were issued that
> children were to be thrown straight into the crematorium furnaces, or into
> a pit near the crematorium, without being gassed first....They threw them
> in alive. Their screams could be heard at the camp. It is difficult to say
> how many children were destroyed in this way."
> 
> So, Al, YOUR claim is bullshit. But you knew this, as I have told you
> about Smaglewska before in relation to Hart's claim of a baby being tossed
> into the ovens alive. 

Smaglewska also claimed that pregnant women were forced to walk 10 km and dig 
ditches with their bare hands or some crap like that. Who cross-examined her?
I seem to recall it was Smirnov. He'd obviously had a vodka or two too many.

That you continue to argue that Hart's rememberances
> are "bullshit" when you KNEW other people testified to the very same
> things make you appear to be a deceitful little fuck.  
> 


You're read the testimony; it is obvious bullshit. These people were schooled
and lied through their teeth.
> 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 10 06:57:51 PST 1996
Article: 26716 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.amer.ican,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: AIR PHOTOS PROVE "GAS CHAMBERS" ARE PROPAGANDA LIES
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 03:18:25 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4hm9jc$c8m@altus.speednet.com.au>
           daveney@speednet.com.au "Graham Daveney" writes:

 
> The Holocaust is totally different. Lets focus on the example of the German
> Jews. (Who as a group were only one community in many that was destroyed.)
> As a group German Jews felt totally German. Fought in WWI with their fellow
> German's against the French and the Russians. Had lived in Germany since Roman
> times from when there was Jewish community in Cologne. For many German Jews
> they had thrown away their Jewishness for the sake of assimilating into 
> German society. Assimilated they were, and they made a very large contribution
> to German society in the form of Art, Science, Authorship, etc, etc.
> 
> Now to take that productive and positive element in society, and stick them
> into Gas chambers does distinguish it from other calamities.

Really? 
> 
> Where was the rebellion ?
> Where was the threat ?


> If you were to study the events in the Holocaust a little more you will find
> one fact that is glaring at you, and that is the overwhelming abscence of
> resistance on the part of the Jews. There were incidents of resistance, but
> they were nothing in comparison to what was being done on the part of the 
> aggressors.
> 
> The Holocaust was meant as an annihilation of the Jewish people, within
> Europe this end has largely been achieved. Wherever the German army went
> the Jewish population there was destroyed, never to recover. Never.
> 
> Other nations have experienced such tradgedies, and eventually they have
> been able to rebuild what they had before, and move on. Not so in the case of
> European Jewry. I can quote facts and figures if you wish.
> 
> At the end of it, and assult on the Jewish nation is an assult on G-d. If you
> have any knowledge of the bible, you must have some clue as to the importance
> of Isreal's mission on this earth and their relationship with G-d. To actively
> try and destroy G-d's nation is a crime of unbelievable proportions.
> 
> You cannot deny these facts. 
> Yes, it is true that other nations have suffered great tradgedies, noone is
> saying that the Jews have "suffered the most of all". That is childish, but
> to sit down and say that the Holocaust was like all the other tradgedies,
> is to ignore some very obvious facts. 

Again, this is more special pleading: Jews are special, Jews have suffered
more than anyone else; Jews deserve special protection, rights and privileges.
It is your acceptance of this and the acceptance of this by Jewish leaders that
lies at the heart of most "anti-Semitism".

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 10 06:57:52 PST 1996
Article: 26762 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The lies of Dan Keren
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 96 12:05:00 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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Some time ago, Dan Baron lied Keren claimed that a) because there is so much
testimony of the Holocaust that it stands to reason some of it must be false
and b) BUT I have never seen one that was obviously false.

Okay Dan, try this from Pressac:

On page 472, there appears this brave extract from 
the cross examination by Dr Zippel of Dr C S Bendel:

Question "How is it possible to get a thousand people into a room 
of 64 cubic metres?"

Answer "This one must ask oneself. It can only be done by the German 
technique." 

[But the laws of physics are universal] !!

The laws of physics Dan Keren PhD. Charles (or Paul) Bendel is a major
witness. His testimony is a tissue of lies. According to Pressac he even lied
about being a member of the Sonderkommando; he really helped Dr Mengele - and
may himself a been a "war criminal". 

Bendel's testimony is patently false, patently perjured, patently absurd.
All the garbage about the shootings in the crematorium, the fat draining off
the burning pits and a thousand an hour consumed by fire. Garbage, provable lies,
all made up.

You can't be ignorant of this Dan, but you don't give a monkey's about truth;
truth is whatever suits your ends.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 10 19:52:53 PST 1996
Article: 26868 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: The Political Climate
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 03:42:17 GMT
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In article <4hovlh$gf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
           nieztsche@aol.com "Nieztsche" writes:
> All because of Versailles and the Jewish Bankers. They had to do
> something.

Who is this nut?

> Read: Jews. Marx was a Jew, as was proven here.

So was Ayn Rand, another typical communist.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 11 04:20:53 PST 1996
Article: 26874 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bavarian high court not intimidated by nazi swine
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 03:46:48 GMT
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In article 
           ag221@FreeNet.Carleton.CA "Howard Eisenberger" writes:

> 
>               Court upholds Holocaust law
> 
>  MUNICH, Germany - Bavaria's highest court on Wednesday
> affirmed that spreading lies about the Holocaust - even
> in private letters - violates German law.

Read Germans kiss the arse of political Zionism. When are these people 
going to stop apologising for the crimes of their grandparents - real and
imagine - and stand up to this powerful fascistic lobby which wants to 
finish the job Hitler started? Namely to destroy freedom (and them along
with it).

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 13 19:05:37 PST 1996
Article: 27078 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Neo-Nazi spin on upholding of Canadian "hate-speech" l
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 08:06:10 GMT
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In article 
           jamie@voyager.net "Jamie McCarthy" writes:

> If Zuendel wanted to stand up in front of a room of skinheads and
> rationally explain why Jews were the reincarnation of the devil, making
> his case with charts and graphs to a quiet and calm audience, I could
> find no reason why the government should step in.  Of the two, this is
> the closer analogy to what he's doing.  I think it's despicable, of
> course.  I will oppose it as vigorously as I am able, and I hope many
> other people do as well.  But I still believe the state should keep its
> nose out of it.

Good for you. It's not far from this sort of drivel to claiming the USA is
the Great Satan; would anyone in this newsgroup want anyone thrown into
gaol for raving at the US government? 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 13 19:05:38 PST 1996
Article: 27079 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Carleton Putnam (was: Here we go 'gain)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 08:13:59 GMT
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In article <4hv7h2$eto@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
           finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "Laura Finsten" writes:

> >Putnam correctly identified the 
> >Boas school of largely Jewish cultural anthropologists as the subverters
> >of race science. He quoted Professor Heuse thus:
> >
> >"...we can only hope that precious time will not be lost in recognizing the 
> >fallacy of equalitarian anti-racism...In our effort to respect the full 
> >complexity of bio-physical and bio-sociological human phenomena, we often 
> >meet opposition from Jewish academicians who pose as champions of
>  egalitarianism....
> >These champions, whose power and cleverness we admire, often believe that in 
> >denying race and racial psychology, they suppress at one and the same time 
> >both racism and anti-semitism. We are indeed surprised at their naive and 
> >erroneous belief." 
> 
> If Putnam cited Heuse in this manner, it is not in Race and Reason but in
> some other book.  I have Race and Reason before me, and Heuse, who wrote
> "Biologie du Noir", published in 1957, is cited only in a footnote on p.51.

I beg your humble pardon and as Dan Keren will confirm I will always admit an
honest mistake. I have referred here and before to Race and Reason; I meant
Race And Reality, the sequel to it. I have Race and Reason. Race and Reality
also discusses how left wing socialogists subverted the Supreme Court decision
in Brown v Topeka, and discusses the background of Boas and co. Far from being
any sort of anti-Semite, Putnam is quite sympathetic to Boas. 


> What neither you, Putnum nor, apparently, Heuse seem to realise
> is that Boas was instrumental in giving anthropology in North America
> a scope that it did not then (and still does not) have in Europe.
> In North America, anthropology is a discipline that integrates
> social, cultural, biological and linguistic studies of human variation.
> This was his most enduring contribution. It is not a "subversion"
> of cultural anthropology (ethnology, in Europe), or the "subversion"
> of physical anthropology to the "ideology" of cultural anthropology.
> It is rather a recognition of the complexity of human variation.

Boas did have some good ideas, but so did Karl Marx, Lenin and Stalin himself.
Even Hitler banned vivesection. The point Putnam made is that the Boas
School have ignored any evidence that conflicts with their theories, and their
political ideologies.

> >Not to mention the fact that he was affiliated with dozens of communist fronts.> 
> Kindly provide support for this allegation.  Once you have done this, we
> can talk about how/why Boas' personal politics might be relevant to
> this discussion.
> 
> I would like to point out the surnames of some of Boas' other students,
> since Putnam himself seemed to think that they were so significant.
> In addition to the well-known Margaret Mead, other students of Boas
> included Alfred Kroeber, Robert Lowie, Fay-Cooper Cole, Edward Sapir,
> Paul Radin, Clark Wissler, Leslie Spier, J. Alden Mason, E. Adamson
> Hoebel, Ruth Benedict, Ruth Bunzel, and Frank Speck.

Yes, these weren't Jewish but they were cut from the same cloth. Mead's 
nonsense about Samoa in particular has been thoroughly refuted. Putnam makes
the point that Boas and company started this nonsense and everybody else
jumped on the bandwagon. Professor George makes the same point.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 13 19:05:39 PST 1996
Article: 27080 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE STORY OF THE GASSINGS COMES FROM A SICK MIND
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 08:21:36 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4hth7c$1264@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:
>In addition, there was some rather frantic
> "testimony" from Burg about Jewish oath-taking that seemed to
> indicate that even Burg's Jewishness could be called into
> question.

No question about Burg's Jewishness. He has been slagged off in Patterns Of
Prejudice. He was also beaten up when visiting his wife's grave by those por,
persecuted POWERLESS people around 1956.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 13 19:05:40 PST 1996
Article: 27081 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.amer.ican,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: AIR PHOTOS PROVE "GAS CHAMBERS" ARE PROPAGANDA LIES
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 08:24:03 GMT
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In article <4i1tlj$8u8_002@watstar.uwaterloo.ca>
> Do you know how to read? Do you know how to string letters together to form a 
> coherent sentence? Obviously not, because even when faced with the most 
> overwhelming mound of evidence you ignore it, including Irvings own 
> admissions, not surprising that since he revised his views he disappeared 
> from your list of references. 

My dear chap, you really are barking up the wrong tree. You are addressing the
man who exposed Irving as a Zionist agent nearly a year before he made this
"admission". 

>The Bundesarchiv is a treasure trove of original 
> german documents confirming that the holocaust is unique in it's scope and 
> methods of implementation. No need to go any further the germans themselves in 
> their own words confirm it, scream all you want we will only laugh harder at 
> you.

You're the one who is screaming. 


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 13 19:05:40 PST 1996
Article: 27082 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stupid Germans
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 08:29:16 GMT
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In article <3141965f.730832@news.pacificnet.net>
> 
>         Baron, whats this Hoover report? You mean the Always
> Dispensing Libels was a pain in the ass that long ago?

In his seminal 1994 study CRYINY WOLF: HATE CRIME HOAXES IN AMERICA, leftist
Laird Wilcox catalogues literally dozens of "hate crime" hoaexs many 
committed by Jews, which are quietly forgotten when the truth about them comes
out. He also reproduces an FBI memorandum on the ADL and an even more
unflattering one from the US Civil Rights Commission. This book should be
essential reading for anyone like you. Next time you hear them shout
"gas chambers" you'll see them in an entirely different light. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 15 17:02:00 PST 1996
Article: 27168 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 22:53:15 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> > You're read the testimony; it is obvious bullshit. These people were schooled
> > and lied through their teeth.
> 
> And you Al, are "obviously" psychotic! 
> 
> Amazing, isn't it, Al, how any testimony that shows the Nazis for the scum
> they were is "obvious bullshit?" 

Of course the Nazis were scum, like all the Aryan goyim. Your logic that
several people said the same thing therefore it must be true (especially 
when they are Jews) is especially quaint.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 15 17:02:02 PST 1996
Article: 27169 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 22:59:43 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <826930783snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <826340644snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4i38r1$ubi@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4i38r1$ubi@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Alexander Baron  wrote:
> Proven fact? Proven by whom? Or is this another one of those
> things that you don't feel qualified to comment upon?
> 
> I want a citation of who "proved" that you can't burn bodies in
> an open pit. Secondly, I want to know whether you think "burned
> in pits" means that you couldn't produce the fine white ash of a
> crematorium or whether you think it means simply that the corpses
> would be reduced in mass.

There is quite a lot of literature on this. Many a murderer has been
caught because the body didn't burn. Cremation is an art. Check out Mattogno's
book, he gives plent of examples, or phone your local crematorium, they'll 
tell you the same.

> The cremation pits, which you claim are simply impossible, are
> where they are supposed to be: in various locations from the
> northwest corner of the camp to Kremas IV and V.

No, it proves that "some" bodies were burned in the open, nobody has denied 
that any more than people died in the camps. What they have denied is that 
hundreds of thousands or - in some cases - millions were disposed of in 
this manner.
-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 15 17:02:03 PST 1996
Article: 27170 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Marx was a jew (NOT!)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 23:03:10 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <826930990snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:    <4hicjm$j46@news.nyu.edu> <4hlbuk$v5e@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> <826251318snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <31438B85.6769@itn.is>
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In article <31438B85.6769@itn.is> eha@itn.is "Elias Halldor Agustsson" writes:

> Alexander Baron wrote:
> 
> > Both these fine specimens have been accused of being Jews, along with
> > Adam Weishaupt, Charlie Chaplin and Yours Truly.
> 
> Is Baron trying to imply that Charlie Chaplin's Jewishness has been 
> called into question?

Charlie Chaplin was not a Jew.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 15 17:02:03 PST 1996
Article: 27171 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bavarian high court not intimidated by nazi swine
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 23:06:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <826931204snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <826429608snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article 
           hce@magmacom.com "Howard Eisenberger" writes:
> >Read Germans kiss the arse of political Zionism. When are these people
> >going to stop apologising for the crimes of their grandparents - real and
> >imagine - and stand up to this powerful fascistic lobby which wants to
> >finish the job Hitler started? Namely to destroy freedom (and them along
> >with it).
> >
> 
> I would agree, that from a strictly civil libertarian point of view,
> this law is an ass. However, as your remarks suggest, it is merely
> symptomatic of a much deeper psycho-political struggle.

As it is.
 
> Starting from the same point i.e. Hitler as the personification of
> evil, how is it that we arrive at opposite sides? I perceive a
> straight line from Hitler to his modern-day adherents. You imply
> that the supporters of his former victims are his true heirs.

Actually, Sefton Delmer complained that in Nazi Germany the press was
too free! He said this pre-dated Hitler, and that when somebody was 
accused of a crime the press could pillory him with impunity. This 
can't be done in Britain because of the Contempt of Court Act; it is a sad
fact that Jewish organisations - and many others - have successfully lobbied
for a far more Draconian censorship than existed in Nazi Germany in many
respects.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 17 08:26:14 PST 1996
Article: 27300 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Problems
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 12:50:17 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <826980617snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: abaron.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30
X-Mail2News-Path: abaron.demon.co.uk

i am continuing to have serious problems with newsgroups; I have managed to
download only a few messages recently and if this goes on I will be quitting
Demon and finding another provider. Any unanswered replies should be sent 
to me by E-mail and then posted to the group.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 17 08:26:15 PST 1996
Article: 27301 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 13:43:02 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <826983782snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <826340644snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4i5o64$5do@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
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In article <4i5o64$5do@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
           schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il "Richard Schultz" writes:

> Alexander Baron (A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren"
>  writes:
> 
> : my mistakes are admitted and corrected promptly 
> 
> Does this mean that we are going to see you produce statistics on the
> relative alcoholism rates among British Jews and British non-Jews any
> time soon?

If I recall, what I said was that two whining, whinging Kosher kids named
Praeger and Telushkin wrote a book called "Why The Jews?" in which they claimed
that Jews lead a higher quality of life than us goyim, that they have fewer
drunks, etc. The question I posed was: doesn't this constitute racial hatred
or "anti-goyism"? After all, "racists" who claim that blacks are more often
muggers than whites are met with this charge. In short, I was simply pointing
out another double standard.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 17 08:26:16 PST 1996
Article: 27302 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: The Political Climate
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 13:45:20 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <826983920snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4hmn7c$86m@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4hovlh$gf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <826429337snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article 
           schwartz@infinet.com "Sara aka Perrrfect" writes:
> > So was Ayn Rand, another typical communist.
> > 
> 
> Hmm... Interesting. And *I* always thought of Rand as a fascist. What
> about randian philosophy is communist, Mr. baron?

I presume you're taking the piss.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 26 18:56:13 PST 1996
Article: 28262 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.titan.com!news.titan.com!news.cerf.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Zyklon irritant
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 03:03:01 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <827463781snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825853948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <826340644snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <4husl1$6us@access1.digex.net> 
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In article  rs241@delphi.com  writes:

> >    The question is whether Litwinska could possibly be telling the truth. 
> >Al Baron claims it is impossible - that she should have been dead if the
> >gassing had started.  I believe there is a very plausible scenario where
> >Litwinska may not be describing the literal and objective truth, but
> >honestly recounting a misinterpretation of her experience. 

Honest judge, I didn't stab him, he ran round the corner into my knife. Yes,
seven times. Well, that's what it seemed like to me, that is the honest 
interpretation of my experience.
 
> >    This is the scenario.  Litwinska was led into the bunker after the
> >cyanide from a prior gassing had cleared, but before the irritant had
> >cleared and before the next load of cyanide was poured.  From her
> >subjective frame of reference, ignorant of the chemistry and mechanics of
> >Zyklon and cyanide poisoning, it would _appear_ that she was being gassed,
> >because of the reaction to the residual irritant.  She simply did not know
> >any better - how would she know what being gassed with cyanide felt like? 
> >In fact, the cyanide had not yet been poured.  An SS man in a gas mask (to
> >protect himself just from the irritant) came in and got her out.  Later,
> >after she was out, the cyanide was actually poured.
>  
>  
>  
> >    Since the scenario described above is possible and does not contradict
> >any known facts or scientific laws, it is not yet possible to reject her
> >story categorically.  Again, I do not claim that her story is proved true. 
> >Rather, it is not yet proved false. 


What about the other women who were in there with her? Not 2,000 as I suggested
but quite a lot. As I recall off the top of my head they were dumped there
naked by a tipper lorry or something like that. Aha, I should have read
further! 

> On pages 186-188 of The Case Against Adolf Eichmann (edited by Henry
> A. Zeiger, 1960), Ms. Litwinska had claimed that she was stripped naked
> in a hut and taken to  the gas chamber (December 24, 1942) by a tipper
> type lorry (I think she was talking about a dump truck).   Each truck
> contained 300 people and there were eight trucks in all.  Once she was
> taken to the building that contained the gas chamber, the tipper type
> lorry tipped it's victims into the gas chamber (down a chute).   After
> the doors were shut, people began to cough and foam at the mouth; she
> had claimed that her eyes began to water.   She claimed to be in this
> room for about two minutes.  An SS man came into the room wearing a
> respirator called out her name and took her out of the gas chamber.
> She was taken to the hospital for six weeks and was taken care of by Dr.
> Mengele.
>  
>  
> This is the dumbest story I have ever heard.     The scenario you had
> offered seems quite different from the one that is presented in The Case
> Against Eichmann.   Have you used selected portions of her deposition or
> have you used someone else's selected and edited statements.
>  
>  
> Ms. Litwinska's statements do not help the exterminationists in their
> quest to make a case on the removal of the odor indicator, nor does it
> make a case for the gas chambers.   Everything she has said is a lie.

Oh dear, another "anti-Semite". Thanks for the reference, I'll check this
book out. Who are you by the way?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 26 18:56:13 PST 1996
Article: 28263 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.titan.com!news.titan.com!news.cerf.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: INEVITABLY REDICULOUS
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 03:10:55 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <827464255snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4in5oo$t74@news.nyu.edu>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4in5oo$t74@news.nyu.edu> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> 
> :       And in return Israel has been an economic drain on the US.  An honest
> : person could describe this as buying trouble.
> 
> Please give a cite, any cite, as the above claim is horsecrap.

Try Findley's book about the "special relationship". There is also a very
good if someone anti-Israel book by a Jew named Ron David. David is no 
anti-Zionist simply an honest man who realises he has been conned, although I
think he does go a bit over the top.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 26 18:56:14 PST 1996
Article: 28274 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Liars and smear-merchants
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 96 18:46:09 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <827693169snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <827312486snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4j251a$d7g@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4j251a$d7g@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Alexander Baron  wrote:
> 
> >The following is copied from Libernet Digest - format codes and all:
> 
> I am sure that the article is very interesting and all. Maybe if
> you send it in a readable format, someone will actually read it.


Sorry John, I did take out a few codes. Most of the stuff posted to
Libernet Digest is in ASCII format; I still haven't either the time or the
skill to get my Web Browser working. To subscribe to Libernet Digest send
an E-mail to Majordomo@dartmouth with the word subscribe. Or something like
that.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 29 17:00:07 PST 1996
Article: 28856 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Problems with newsgroups
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 00:53:09 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 34
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <827974389snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <827636956snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <3156bcf5.3481091@news.pacificnet.net> <4jc872$jd@shiva.usa.net>
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In article <4jc872$jd@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:

> In article <3156bcf5.3481091@news.pacificnet.net>,
> tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) offers:
> 
>         God damn, Baron. Let me know if you need the money for
>         Windows.

I HATE Windows. I am a dedicated DOS users and find batch files eminently
superior.
 
> Mr. Baron readily admits that he makes money from publishing his
> Holocaust denying bile

A) I have never denied the Holocaust and b) I don't make money from my 
publications; only from my litigation.


>when he has no difficulty with deniers who
> actually do profit from the distress they cause others.

What about all the liars who profit from the suffering - real and imagined -
of the Jewish people? Haven't you heard the expression "There's no business
like Shoah business?" It is true is it not that the more devout Jews - which
evidently does not include you - find the commercialising of the Holocaust 
obscene or even sacriligous and have often condemned it.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 29 17:00:08 PST 1996
Article: 28857 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE STORY OF THE GASSINGS COMES FROM A SICK MIND
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 00:48:02 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <827974081snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <560368180wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4hth7c$1264@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <826618896snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4ia7d7$v3u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <827118812snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4in7sa$19vc@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <827637473snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <31585149.4307865@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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In article <31585149.4307865@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Translation: Burg was allegedly beaten up by some Jews, therefore all
> Jews are responsible for beating him up. Generally.

No John, this is the sort of specious crap we have to struggle against. When
and where did I say ALL Jews beat up Burg? Hmm?
> 
> >> Translation: I can't provide a reference for my claim; I just
> >> like to slag off Jews.

It's in Butz.

> >
> >No, it's in Patterns of Prejudice; it's no big secret that anyone who has
> >the temerity to question their officially sanctioned lies will be slagged off
> >to high heaven.
> 
> "Their?" The Jews? The Zionist thugs? Organized Jewry?

Organised Zionist Jewry. The Institute of Jewish Affairs is the propaganda
arm of the World Jewish Congress; it was founded as such; it has just been
renamed Jewish Policy Research, though most of its policies will be about 
deciding what policies the goyim should be permitted to pursue.

> 
> Po'r li'l Al. Slagged off for his antisemitism. Does the perfidy of
> Jewry know no bounds?

What anti-Semitism is that, John? People who destroy our freedoms deserve to
be hated.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 29 17:00:09 PST 1996
Article: 28947 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!news.PEAK.ORG!engr.orst.edu!news.BSDI.COM!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren refuted
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 00:40:10 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4j48e4$16po@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> How does a disagreement about the method of burning corpses have anything to
> do with the historicity of the Holocaust?  Can you follow *any* threads?
> 
> >       How long a list do you want?  
> 
> A list of one would be a refreshing start.

I accept that some bodies were burned in pits; I don't see how that proves
that the Nazis exterminated Jews at Auschwitz. Furthermore, the capacity of 
the pits has been exaggerated by an enormous factor for the obvious purpose
of convincing people that exterminations happened on a colossal scale. The
claim that some bodies were burnt in the open because of the typhus epidemic
is perfectly reasonable.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 29 17:00:10 PST 1996
Article: 28948 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron exposes the lies of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 00:45:54 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> Alexander Baron  writes:
> 
> # Dachau was NOT any sort of extermination camp;
> 
> Call it as you wish; many people were murdered there. You
> can look up the photographs of their corpses. Many were
> also killed during medical experiments.
> 
> # The "gas chamber" disappeared and then reappeared.
> 
> Rubbish. There was a gas chamber there; Rascher explicitly
> suggests to gas people in Dachau, in his letter to Himmler
> that was quoted here very often. 

My, what a comprehensive rebuttal Dan. "Rascher suggests" is not evidence
any more than I suggest I will win the National Lottery next week. Furthermore,
if you check out Elie Cohen's book you will find another suggested use for 
this "chamber". 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 31 09:12:09 PST 1996
Article: 29095 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 00:45:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> There is no more Kach party in Israel. It was outlawed by
> the Israeli government, because it was openly racist against
> Arabs.

See, these bloody people are so intolerant they even persecute Jews who
don't agree with them. Bloody fascists.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 31 09:12:10 PST 1996
Article: 29272 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron exposes the lies of Nizkor
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 21:39:34 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <315bb50b.20584101@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> If this argument came from anyone else, one would be struck its
> extraordinary shallowness as an argument. But like so many deniers,
> you have a weak grasp of basic concepts of historiography. I have
> recently used the phrase elsewhere, and I find it particularly apt
> here, and that is that you seem to see history as a series of static
> tableaux. First and foremost you fail to grasp the very simple concept
> that events unfold in time, that they develop and evolve. Put more
> concretely, conditions at Dachau in 1933 bear little relation to
> conditions in 1939 or 1942 or 1945. It is hardly less ridiculous to
> say that since dinosaurs once existed, they must still exist.

I agree up to a point; the conditions in 1945 were certainly extraordinary
but were not intentional, they were the result of Germany losing the war.
Similar scenes were found in the Andersonville concentration camp, and many
others.

> Similarly, your last point makes use of the same argument. You argue
> as if all the prisoners were incarcerated in 1933 and were still fit
> enough in 1945 "to abuse their former captors." You simply ignore the
> fact that prisoners were deported to Dachau and other camps almost
> right up to the end. I recently discovered, for example, that the
> parents of our reading room librarian were captured and transported to
> Belsen only two weeks before its liberation. Who knows but perhaps
> they were sufficiently sickened by conditions at Belsen "to abuse
> their former captors." They would have been sufficiently fit to do so.
> 
> The second stage of your argument is nothing more than an attempt to
> relativize the suffering of the inmates. It may come as a shock to
> you, but most people consider the treatment of chain gangs to have
> been nothing short of criminal, and that flogging is cruel and unusual
> and counter-productive. 

I agree, but this was the Zeitgeist.

>However, you may intend your relativization,
> it appears to your readers that so long as others were doing the same
> things, the Nazis were not particularly blameworthy for their own
> cruelties. I am afraid that just doesn't fly, cruelty is cruelty no
> matter who practices it.

I didn't mean that at all, but you must judge the Nazis by the same standards
as others of the time, when you do that you find they were no worse than the
Americans in many ways, and they were a lot more humane than many so-called
"Third World" governments today, precisely the sort of people who are forever
carping on about the evils of "racism".

 
> Typhus is a preventable disease and, where prevention efforts falter,
> it is a completely controllable disease. The British, when they
> liberated Belsen, for instance, had the situation in hand in a matter
> of days. 

Not true, 13,000 died after the liberation. They also flew in medical students
>from  the London teaching hospitals.

>They restored water services, improved sanitary conditions,
> and arranged to feed the inmates at rates consistent with what the
> neighboring population was getting. None of these measures was beyond
> the powers of the Nazis in 1945, and certainly not beyond their powers
> in 1942 when typhus was claiming tens of thousands of lives.

Again this is dross; in 1942 special measures were taken at Auschwitz to
control the typhus epidemic. A certain Hermann Langbein who later went on to
become president of the International Auschwitz Committee was drafted into
the camp especially for that purpose.

> The
> prevention and control techniques had been known and practiced
> effectively in the First World War. Genocide is genocide whether the
> weapon is poison gas or wilful mistreatment and neglect.

Garbage John. Towards the end there were increasing cases of typhus in Berlin.
There were disease epidemics in that city after the war.
 

> Jeff Roberts posted some crap written by someone else and would not in
> any case not have been in a position to defend its contents. Given his
> track record on these things, he would have been incapable of
> defending it in the unlikely event that he chose to respond.

I've read some of this stuff in the hard copy, including the report by the
US Army; it is quite obviously fabricated.

> Again, given Mr. Roberts' track record, debunking his post of the
> article by Carlos Porter would have been no more difficult than
> checking the cited sources. I note too that one of Mr. Roberts' lies
> about Dachau is based upon one your own little pamphlets and involves
> a newspaper article by one Fred Redman. I have pointed out repeatedly
> that an ellipsis in the article entirely falsifies the conclusions
> that Lucius Clay reached in regards to the Malmedy section of the
> Dachau Trial. I have not yet seen you leap to Mr. Roberts' defense by
> claiming the ellipsis as your own or to condemn Mr. Roberts for
> falsifying Clay's conclusions.

I have the full article and will send it to you for a couple of IRCs, alternative
you can order it from Colindale.

> >Furthermore it is a matter of record that a delousing chamber was 
> >exhibited as a gas chamber and in fact is still listed as such to this
> >day at the Imperial War Museum - Department of Photographs. My study -
> >which I sent to Mike Stein - proves that powerful Zionist organisations
> >have wilfully lied about this "gas chamber". 
> 
> Nonsense. 

Fraid not, check out Pressac, he calls this a "mistake". 

>It is also a matter of record that the gas chamber was
> immediately adjacent to the delousing chamber. You simply choose to
> omit this little fact because it is inconvenient to your thesis, and I
> have yet to see you offer an explanation of the windowless room with
> the non-functional showers that did not include a tasteless joke or a
> diatribe about "Organized Jewry" or how "Jews have more than their
> fair share of liars."

Again, says who? And if this was so obvious at the time, why were the photographs
of the delousing chambrer circulated throughout the world? In other words, if 
you have the real article, why exhibity a fake?
 

> >This quote has been doctored; it actually reads as follows:
> 
> You really are a prat, you know. The differences between the two
> quotes are there solely because the passage was translated by two
> different translators. As it happens, I translated the quote which you
> claim is doctored. I assume you base this claim on the interpolated
> phrase "gas chambers." Apparently you do not know that interpolated
> passages are marked by enclosing them in square brackets. If I had
> really wanted to "doctor" the quote I would have left out the
> brackets. Even smarter would have been to enclose the interpolated
> phrase in parentheses so that I could leave open the possibility of a
> plausible denial if I got caught "doctoring" the quote.
> 
> >As you know, the same facilities [no mention of gas chambers] have
> >been built at the Dachau concentration camp as at Linz. Because the
> >convoys of invalids end up, one way or another, in the chambers that
> >are intended for them, I am asking the following question: In these
> >chambers, on people who are destined for them in any case, would it
> >not be possible to test the efficienct of our combat gases? So far,
> >all we have are [the results of] tests made on animals, or reports
> >on accidents that occurred during manufacture. Because of this paragraph,
> >I am sending my letter marked 'Secret'.
> 
> The two quotes are identical in their sense except for the
> interpolated passage. However, you are apparently unaware that the
> Linz facilities referred to are a well-documented homicidal gas
> chamber at the Hartheim T4 euthanasia site. 

I know all about Tiergartenstrasse 4.

>Since there is an
> incontestable Hitler order for the euthanasia program and a voluminous
> correspondence between the doctors and Himmler's office discussing
> euthanasia techniques, including gassing and phenol injections into
> the heart, *and* since you have already acknowledged that the
> euthanasia was no worse in kind from what other civilized nations have
> done (there's that relativizing again), I do not see that you are in
> any position to argue now that "the same facilities," as translated in
> both versions, are anything but gas chambers. My interpolation serves
> no other function than to clarify what is being discussed in Rascher's
> letter.

As I think I have pointed out before, Professor Butz believes that the start
of the mass gassing story was developed from the euthanasia programme, and
embellished to high heaven.
 
> You say Rascher asks nothing more than a question, but it is the very
> question that you leave begging as below:
> 
> >In other words, a document claims that Rascher asked a question. There
> >is  no evidence that it was answered, much less in  the  affirma-
> >tive. Furthermore, he was referring to testing combat gases,  not 
> >"exterminating" people. 
> 
> The document asks a question. But what is that question? The question
> is, "can we use the same facilities that we have here at Dachau to
> test combat gases?" And on whom does Rascher suggest that these
> heretofore untested gases be tested? Well, "since the invalids from
> the transports are going to end up in certain chambers anyway, why
> don't we test our combat gases on them?" I therefore find myself at a
> loss to explain how testing combat gases on people can be construed as
> anything but exterminating them.

Even if that werea true, all you have is a question, no evidence that it 
was answered in the affirmative or at all.
> 
> Certainly Rascher was not above killing people in medical experiments.
> Among other things, he has become famous for the series of hypothermia
> experiments carried out by the Dachau doctors:

Yes, check out Robert Proctor's book. Murderous science is inexcusable and 
surely enough to condemn the Nazis for; why do you need to gild the lily with
these ridiculous lies?

> >In his book HUMAN BEHAVIOUR IN THE CONCENTRATION CAMP, the former Auschwitz
> >inmate  Dr Elie Cohen writes that on May 15, 1941, Rascher  wrote 
> >to Himmler asking if "two or three professional criminals"  could 
> >be made available for medical experiments in a "mobile  low-pres-
> >sure chamber". Whatever happened at Dachau had nothing to do with 
> >genocide,  but  like I said, there is no reliable  evidence  that 
> >anyone was gassed there in "gas chambers", although other medical 
> >experiments were carried out. 
> 
> Oh. That's alright then. Inmates were murdered in the name of science
> and not genocide. And again, Cohen tells us what Rascher asked for on
> a specific date for a different set of experiments. Somehow you seem
> to think that this is all Rascher must ever have asked for or ever
> have done.

Cohen's book is very good; he falls for a lot of crap but it is well written
and unhysterical.

> >publishes a photograph of members of the US Congress inspecting the shower
> >bath at Dachau captioned "...they are being told that this was the gas
>  chamber".
> 
> It is beyond me why deniers are not mortally embarrassed by Professor
> Butz who is nothing more than a twisted conspiracy theorist of the
> worst kind. How much happier a place the world would be if he had
> taken up Lee Harvey Oswald or UFOs as his principal topic.

Rhetoric again John. Conspiracy = combinations of persons for an evil or
illegal purpose, nothing more.

>    Deniers [also] like to make much of the sign on one of the
>    Dachau disinfestation chamber which read, in German,
>    "Attention! Gas! Danger of Death. Do Not Open." They very
>    reasonably ask what kind of homicidal gas chamber has a 
>    warning sign on it. What they never mention is that the U.S.
>    Army film taken at the liberation of Dachau also includes a
>    windowless room immediately adjacent marked, again in German,
>   "Showers," in which there were no functioning shower fixtures.
 
> You can explain this apparent discrepancy and omission in the denier
> account I trust.

More to the point, you can explain why this was not presented as a gas chamber.
How do you know this was not concocted? How do you know that it was not originally
a shower then converted into something else. I seem to remember that something
similar was meant to have happened to Krema I at Auschwitz.


> >The "Official History of Dachau" by Paul Berben says that
> >a  gas  chamber commissioned in March 1942,  final  approval  was 
> >given in July 1942. It was codenamed $Baracke X$
> >
> >"The building was after the well-tried 'classical' model: chan-
> >ging-room, fake shower-room, where the prisoners were given to 
> >understand they were to receive a $gutes Brausebad$ but were gas-
> >sed...However, the Dachau gas-chamber was never operated."
> >
> >on page 176 it is admitted that the gas chamber and crematorium = 
> >$Baracke  X$ was supposed to take 3 months to build, yet  it  was 
> >never finished owing to sabotage (work delay)
> >
> >This is all bullshit; you will note that the date this was allegedly 
> >"commissioned" was nearly a year after the date of the letter given by Cohen.
> 
> Oh dear, Cohen gives a date of 1941 for the "low-pressure chamber"
> that Dr. Rascher used in his high-altitude experiments. This chamber
> had absolutely nothing to do with the gas chamber. It was simply a
> sealed chamber with a pressure door. It is simply beyond belief that
> you could have confused the two, and yet there it is.

Who says it wasn't the same chamber?
 
> But while I've got Robert Bennett's Dachau web page loaded let's see
> what Rascher had to say to Himmler about this experiment which
> apparently did not involve only three "criminals" in 1941:
> 
> 
>    Letter from SS-Untersturmfuehrer Rascher to Reichfuehrer-SS
>    Himmler, 5 April 1942. (War Criminal Trials at Nuremberg,
>    Vol. 1, p. 144) 
> 
>    Highly Esteemed Reich Leader: 
> 
>    Enclosed is an interim report on the low-pressure experiments
>    so far conducted in the concentration camp of Dachau...
> 
>    Only continuous experiments at altitudes higher than 10.5 Km
>    resulted in death. These experiments showed that breathing
>    stopped after about 30 minutes, while in two cases the
>    electrocardiographically charted action of the heart continued
>    for another 20 minutes.
> 
>    The third experiment of this type took such an extraordinary
>    course that I called an SS physician of the camp as a witness,
>    since I had worked on these experiments all by myself. It was a
>    continuous experiment without oxygen at a height of 12 Km.
>    conducted on a 37-year old Jew in good general condition.
>    Breathing continued up to 30 minutes. After 4 minutes the
>    experimental subject began to perspire and to wiggle his
>    head, after 5 minutes cramps occurred, between 6 and 10
>    minutes breathing increased in speed and the experimental
>    subject became unconscious; from 11 to 30 minutes breathing
>    slowed down to three breaths per minute, finally stopping
>    altogether.
> 
>    Severest cyanosis developed in between and foam appeared at
>    the mouth.

Again, an innocent Jew murdered. Isn't that bad enough? Why the need to
embellish?

> >Payne-Best's "testimony " is hearsay, at best.
> 
> And admissible in any Anglo-American court of law.

Not as evidence, as Yale once pointed out there are degrees of hearsay. This
is the worst type of "evidence".
 
> > In any case, the British were
> >no more immune from lying than you; I have found one record of a British POW
> >referring to the non-existent Buchenwald gas chamber.
> 
> Sigh. Don't you ever get tired of these dreary analogies. "Because it
> is possible for one British soldier to lie, all British soldiers lie
> about the Holocaust." Shall I say that I find this somewhat less than
> compelling?

No, you are simply assuming that because one British soldier lied - or was 
mistaken - the one who supports your thesis is truthful. That is simply 
bad logic.

> > Blaha's testimony is a 
> >tissue of lies. Blaha was a communist and an inmate; 
> 
> A communist, eh? Well I'm convinced. We all know that communists lie
> about everything all the time.

They do indeed, for the communist there is no such thing as truth, rather there
is bourgeouis truth and there is proletarian truth. But of course you knew that,
didn't you?

> >he was also a 
> >pathologist. At the IMT - Volume V - he testified that skin, especially
>  tattooed skin, 
> >was removed from prisoners, but not from Germans and that some were made 
> >into saddles, handbags, etc. It is not clear if he claims to have seen this 
> >personally, but as he was working in the autopsy room what else is one to 
> >believe?
> >
> >"It was common practice to remove skin from dead priso-
> >ners. I was ordered to do this on many occasions. Dr. Rascher and 
> >Dr. Wolter in particular asked for this human skin from human 
> >backs and chests. It was chemically treated and placed in the sun 
> >to dry. After that it was cut into various sizes for use as 
> >saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers and ladies' 
> >handbags. Tattooed skin was especially valued by SS men." 
> >
> >However, he had obviously been embellishing on the Buchenwald case in which
> >Commandant Koch was executed by the SS probably for such murders as well
> >as financial corruption.
> 
> There is a slight misrepresentation here. Koch was indeed executed for
> corruption and murder, but primarily for the murders of informants in
> the camps who could testify to his black market activities. 

In human skin artifacts perhaps?

>He was
> never charged with turning possible anatomical specimens into fashion
> accessories and home furnishings.
> 
> > None of the artifacts Blaha mentioned could be
> >found and obviously never existed, but Blaha was an anti-Nazi and he filed
> >an affidavit which shows the Nazis in a bad light so Nizkor accept it as 
> >gospel. As I have said before, this evidence is on a par with or less
> >meaningful than some of the Blood Libel and other anti-Jewish propaganda of
> >the Middle Ages, yet the likes of Yale refer to it as unsubstantiated
>  allegations.
> >
> >German skins were forbidden, Blaha said: ie more Master Race propaganda.
> 
> Yes, it certainly appears from what you have said that Blaha has
> indeed picked up on the fact that the commandant and his wife at
> Buchenwald did use some human skins to make furnishings and
> accessories. But you have not exactly been batting .1000 up to this
> point. One would certainly wish to check that you have given *all* of
> the facts related to Blaha's testimony.

Check it out yourself, it's been posted here. When Blaha gave his "evidence"
his affidavit was read to the court - to save time I believe - and he was
not cross-examined meaningfully if at all.
 
> In any case, poisoning the well like this does not exactly refute
> Payne-Best's memoir or the fact that he corroborates Blaha's testimony
> on gas chambers.

I'll read up on Payne-Best but let me put this to you: if Les Griswold tells
me that he saw a Jew practice ritual murder and I repeat it, is that hearsay
acceptable in any Anglo-Saxon court? For the record, I am not Anglo-Saxon.
 
> >Blaha reported evidence of cannibalism in November 1942 in Dachau, 
> >which seems most unlikely at that time.
> 
> Why? The inmates were on starvation rations at a time when even the
> deniers say there was plenty of food for everyone.

Not so.

> Wait for it. It's inevitable. The antisemitic smear is just
> irresistible, isn't it, Mr Baron. I swear no matter how carefully and
> logically I might develop a refutation of your nonsense, you do
> yourself more harm than I ever possibly could.

No, the simple fact is that many people, including powerful politicians, 
are terrified of being smeared as anti-Semitic. They should take a leaf out
of my book and issue a libel writ or two.

> >The letter is disingenous and fudges the issue.
> 
> Like you've seen it!

I've got a copy, and a translation.

> >What research? What evidence? There is none. Produce it or hold your
> >peace. 

> 
> I've just done that.
> 

Not to my satisfaction.

> >The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust - which must surely be the 
> >definitive Exterminationist work says the Dachau gas chamber existed
> >but was never used. So where is this "gas chamber" that took 3 years to
> >build?
> 
> The gas chamber is immediately adjacent to the delousing chamber.
> 
> Now you cannot have it both ways. You cannot ask us to respect the
> Encyclopedia as the definitive work on the Holocaust in order to argue
> that the gas chamber was never used and ask us to reject that same
> work in order to argue that the gas chamber never existed.

I said this is the definitive work from the Exterminationists' viewpoint,
as it is researched by the leading Exterminationist archive it represents, in
my view, the strongest case they can make. One should always challenge the
strongest.

> I would hardly say that you conceded anything on Kitty Hart with good
> grace; to say so is self-revisionism. In fact, it took several months
> of exchanges over a passage that you originally posted simply to get
> you to recognize that Hart was very clear that the story of the baby
> who survived the gassing was hearsay. 

I had to wade through a large amount of material to write my book and missed
this one point, which I later corrected in print. Ask Mike Stein. When I am
proved or shown to be wrong I change my mind. What do you do, John?

>Very bad form. And claiming that
> every inconvenient document is a forgery, that every confession was
> extorted by torture and, here, that everyone who doesn't see the world
> through your distorting lens is a liar--well all that got old a
> looooong time ago.


I have never claimed that; the fact is that the documents and the testimonies
very often prove the exact opposite of what your side claim. The films of 
Belsen - the mass propaganda proof does not prove genocide except to the 
ignorant public, what it does prove is that the Nazis couldn't dispose of
thousands of bodies virtually overnight as they were supposed to have done
in Auschwitz.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy



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