Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-062-06 Last-Modified: 1999/06/07 Witness Gordon: I told him that I hid these jewels and Jewish valuables because I was thinking about myself. If he doesn't come back, they would belong to me. Of course, it was just a story. Attorney General: And then he told you to go with those people who were returned to Budapest? Witness Gordon: We did not return to Budapest, I was put into the labour camp in Kecskemet. Q. And you stayed there till your liberation by the Soviet troops? A. Not quite. I escaped from there, from Szegedin. I had been taken to Szeged to the hospital, from where I escaped on October 14, 1944. Then I went to Budapest, and I was a member of the underground until the liberation. Q. I believe you also testified in Hungary in the case of Marton Zoeldi. A. Yes, Sir, I did. Presiding Judge: Dr. Servatius, do you have any questions? Dr. Servatius: I have no questions to the witness. Judge Halevi: I did not quite understand. In the synagogue they told you that this was a German order? Witness Gordon: That was correct. Q. Who told you that? A. One of the Hungarian officials. We were kept also as "Schutzhaeftlinge" (detainees in protective custody). Q. A further question: Who was sent to hunt Jews? A. Where from? Q. I understood you to say that Christians were wearing the Yellow Badge. Perhaps I did not understand you correctly? A. Oh, yes. That was April 15, 1944, when I had to go to the Foreign Police. They were just killing if there were any Jews coming out of the places, and we saw people walking with a Jewish Star. We believed that they are Jews, but they turned out to be Christians, because, as soon as we entered the building, we were arrested there. Q. Why did they wear the Yellow Badge, if they were not Jews? A. Just to trap those Jews who should come at that date to register. Q. And were there members of the Security Service at the Majestic Hotel, or who was it who questioned you there? A. All we knew was that they were SS men. Q. And did you hear the names of the officers? A. I only heard Eichmann's name from those who had been there longer than I was. Q. That is to say, they told you that this man who had come in and looked at you was Eichmann? A. That is correct, Sir. Q. And this is why you identify him now? A. Yes, Sir. And I also saw him at the Tsuk factory later on. Q. But you still recognize him now? A. Yes, I do, Sir. Q. But he was not one of the interrogators? A. No, he was not. Presiding Judge: You said that the Accused expressed his satisfaction in the courtyard of the leather factory. Witness Gordon: Yes, and he made a remark which I clearly heard, as: "These Jews had directed and ruled the Hungarian press." Q. To whom did he say this? A. To one of his accomplices, also in an SS uniform. Q. Did you hear anything further from which you understood that the Accused expressed satisfaction, or was it only that? A. I couldn't say anything about this. I saw him two or three times in the Majestic. Q. That is not what I am asking. You told us about his comment that you heard when he visited the leather factory. Was there any other remark from which you could have learned about his satisfaction? A. I did not hear anything else. Presiding Judge: Thank you. Attorney General: I have another witness. I do not know whether we can finish his testimony today. But if the Court wishes us to begin, we can do so. Presiding Judge: How long, in your estimation, would his evidence take? Attorney General: Half an hour. If we do not call him today, I can submit some more documents, because this witness is the last one of the individual chapters. Presiding Judge: And you do not have material to submit? Attorney General: I can keep the Court engaged for some minutes. Dr. Servatius: Your Honour, the Presiding Judge. There are still a number of witnesses. But I have not yet received a summary of their testimony, and hence I do not know what they are to say. I do not know whether this is one of those witnesses - I have not yet had an opportunity to speak to my client about that. Attorney General: We have supplied a precis, but it does not matter. Since time is short, I shall submit documents, and with these we can perhaps conclude the session. Defence Counsel has received notice of the documents. The two documents relate to a conference that took place at the beginning of April, on 3 or 4 April 1944, of all the "Juden-Referenten" - the directors of the Jewish sections in the German Foreign Ministry and in the German embassies in Europe. The first document is our No. 1186. This is a letter, dated 10 March 1944, from von Thadden to Eichmann, giving details of the conference, and stating that the agenda for the conference had been agreed upon with Eichmann. This was a meeting of all the consultants on "Aryanization" of the Head Office for Reich Security abroad and of all the Juden- Referenten of the German legations abroad. It says that the conference will take place in Krumhuebel in Silesia. Judge Halevi: Was there a special reason for that? Attorney General: Yes, for a special reason, so that, in the event of a successful air raid, all these important experts would not - Heaven forbid - be lost at one and the same time. Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/1250. Attorney General: The Foreign Ministry asks all those invited to prepare their reports and their theses, and the Court will find, in the margin of the letter, a minute by von Thadden, dated 29 March 1944, that, owing to the events in the south-east, the Head Office for Reich Security would not be able to be represented at Krumhuebel by its advisers on "Aryanization" on the date specified. On 21 March 1944, the men in charge of the Jewish Department were occupied in a special action in the south-east. They were engaged in the extermination of the Jews of Hungary. But the conference took place without them. And here is the report of that conference. It is our No. 506. It is also PS 3319. It was submitted at Nuremberg. I would draw the Court's attention, first of all, to the list of participants in that conference, which the Foreign Ministry prepared in conjunction with the Accused. This is to be found on the last pages. The Court will see the names of the lecturers: The opening speaker, Professor Dr. Six (this is the Defence witness), Ambassador Schleier, Dr. von Thadden, Professor Mahr, Dr. (Miss) Hauhsmann, Dr. Walz, Dr. Kutscher, Dr. Klassen, Dr. Matthias, Dr. Yanke, Dr. Meissner, and several others who represented Germany in France, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slovakia and Turkey. Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/1251. Attorney General: In opening this well-attended conference, Professor Dr. Six, who was at that time already at the Foreign Ministry, begins by saying in his speech that the Fuehrer had laid down that the battle against Jewry had to be intensified, and, in particular, anti-Semitic propaganda had to be directed towards England and the United States. Anti-Jewish propaganda in neutral countries was difficult, but it was of the utmost importance, since, from the neutral countries, it was possible to radiate to England and the United States. (Ausstrahlungmoeglichkeiten). On the second page, Dr. Six states... Judge Halevi: Does Dr. Six say all this? The first words are already not those of Dr. Six. Presiding Judge: No, he only hands over the chairmanship of the meeting and then goes on with his speech. Judge Halevi: Apparently, it is Schleier who is speaking, and not Six. Attorney General: Quite correct. I thank the Court. This is Schleier reporting. Six speaks on the following pages about the political structure of world Jewry and, in doing so, states the following as a fact: " Judentum in Europa hat seine biologische und gleichzeitig seine politische Rolle ausgespielt" (European Jewry has already lost its biological and, at the same time, its political role). Nevertheless, there are still Jews left in England - so he says - "owing to its plutocratic structure." And, at the end of the page, Professor Dr. Six deals with Zionism. He says: "Zionism means the return of the Jews to their homeland in Palestine, in order to become there a political and biological force once again. This question of a renaissance in Palestine clashes at once with the Arab problem. Jews were promised the return to their homeland by the Balfour Declaration of 1917. The Jewish element in Palestine had expanded and made much progress at the expense of the Arab people." And here there is a sentence: "Die physische Beseitigung des Ostjudentums entziehe dem Judentum die biologischen Reserven" (The physical liquidation of the Jews in the east deprives the Jewish People of its biological reserves). And here, again, comes the notorious libel. The Jew is connected with Bolshevism. In England, he is linked to high finance. I have already had an opportunity to mention to the Court that the Jew is the enemy of National Socialism in its twin aspects: As a communist, he is the enemy of Nazism; as a capitalist, he is the enemy of so-called socialism. Consequently, he is a perfect target for an attack on the two aspects of this name. Professor Six concludes: "Not only in Germany, but also on the international scene, a solution to the Jewish Question must be reached." Later on, von Thadden, in his speech, gives an account of the steps which world Jewry has taken in reaction against the German operation against European Jewry. ("Der Redner fuehrte dann aus, welche Gegenmassnahmen das Weltjudentum gegen die deutschen antijuedischen Massnahmen in Europa durchfuehrt.") At the end of his account, he reports on executive actions which, because of their secret nature, are not included in the minutes. There is nobody there of the Jewish Department, since we know that Eichmann, Krumey, Hunsche, Brunner, and all the gang were in Budapest, but there is a delegate of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt, SS Hauptsturmbannfuehrer Dr. Ballensiefen, and he reports on the attempts to carry out anti-Jewish activities in Hungary, in connection with the political events there. Professor Dr. Mahr talks of the possibilities of anti-Jewish propaganda on the radio. Dr. (Miss) Hauhsmann discusses the anti-Jewish activities that can be carried on by the press and by the distribution of anti-Jewish photographs. Dr. Walz asks that the particular mentality of each nation to which the anti-Semitic propaganda is directed be taken into consideration. Dr. Kutscher says: "The Jews are the misfortune of all nations. A Jewish victory will be the end of all culture (for example, Russia)." Judge Halevi: How much longer do we have to hear about all those speeches? Surely this also appears in Mein Kampf? What is new about that? Attorney General: The novelty lies in the fact that, in April 1944, when the balance was moving towards the other side, when Germany was engaged in the massive Soviet counter- attack, when the invasion forces for Europe were getting ready in the British Isles - that was what preoccupied the Germans. It was for this purpose that they called this large European conference, in order to continue the struggle against the Jews - in co-operation with the Accused. And now, Your Honour, we come to the precise recommendation of each expert on how to spread anti-Semitism in his country. The French delegate suggests how this can be done in France by exhibitions of photographs. There are problems in Portugal, for it is difficult to talk there of a purge in the German sense, but there the nation must be purged of the remnants of Jewish blood which still exists within the nation. From Switzerland comes a report that a healthy anti- Semitic instinct exists there within the population, but it has to be nurtured. While anti-Semitic propaganda must proceed with caution, and its German origin must not be revealed ("den deutschen Ursprung nicht verraten"), it is worthwhile considering revelations of scandals in which Jews are involved, dealing with Jewish personalities, the spreading of Jewish jokes. In Italy, the nation must be told that the Jews are active in the black market, and illustrated brochures ("illustrierte Broschueren") should be distributed. In Sweden, there are complaints about the spreading of anti- Semitic propaganda. However, there are possibilities of bringing anti-Semitism to life, if the wave of Jewish immigration from Denmark were to be exploited. The difficulty is that it is not possible to broadcast any anti- Semitic propaganda on the Swedish radio. The delegate from Romania complained that the racial aspect and the anti- Semitic ideology had been neglected, and that they had concentrated solely on economic and material measures against the Jews. Presiding Judge: Very well - and so it went on from country to country. Attorney General: So it went on from country to country - the determination of the most effective measures for action, how to disseminate the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." This is suggested for Turkey, on a scientific basis. It is also interesting to refer to the case of Slovakia. It is world-embracing. There is reference to Japan. On page 14, Consul Meissner talks about a solution of the Jewish Question in Japan and in the Far East. He points to the large number of Jews from Germany who had managed to escape there. There, too, they must be reached. We have the agenda here, with the breakfasts and lunches that were served, together with anti-Jewish films that were screened for the participants. "Les Corrupteurs" - that is the name of the film which was shown to the conference delegates. And the record of the proceedings, as the Court will notice later from the last page, goes to all the German embassies in Europe. Presiding Judge: Very well. Will you please give us two more copies? Attorney General: I shall do so, Your Honour. Dr. Servatius: Your Honour, the Presiding Judge, I merely want to point to the last page, where it says that those taking part on behalf of the Head Office for Reich Security were guests, and there the name of Hauptsturmbannfuehrer Ballensiefen is mentioned. This was a symposium for the heads of the Jewish Departments at the embassies abroad; that is to say, all these gentlemen were from the Foreign Ministry. And here we see where the driving forces were to be found. This document is an important defence document for the Accused. Presiding Judge: On what page is this? Dr. Servatius: It is on the page before last. Presiding Judge: We shall adjourn now. Tomorrow morning's Session will commence, as I have already announced, at 8.30 instead of 9.00, and will conclude at 12.30.
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