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Shofar FTP Archive File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-033-04

Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-033-04
Last-Modified: 1999/06/01

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 1522.
This is again a letter showing the coordination of
activities in France and Belgium.  It is from Roethke to
Ehlers.  Roethke tells Ehlers that Jews of French
nationality have already been deported from France and that
the French have introduced a law revoking the citizenship of
French Jews who became nationalized after 1927.  He also
mentions the difficulties which the French Government
attempted to cause in that regard.  He then asks Ehlers to
seize and deport French Jews from Belgium.  He thinks this
is desirable for two reasons: Firstly, it is desirable in
itself, and secondly it will accustom the French to the idea
that such Jews will also be deported.  He hopes it will
influence the French when they see that French Jews are
deported from Belgium.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/484.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 1217.
Here Roethke - the letter is actually signed by Knochen -
informs Mueller of the Head Office for Reich Security that
Laval as well as the Minister of Justice have signed the
draft law already mentioned.  He is already planning the
operation and says that at least 250 men from the Security
Police have to be made available in order to seize those
Jews who may now be seized in accordance with the new law.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/485.

State Attorney Bach:  He also emphasizes that he does not
have sufficient forces because of the activities of the
underground in France.

Presiding Judge: Was this written by Knochen?

State Attorney Bach:  Knochen wrote it, but Roethke drafted
it, as the Court can see at the beginning of the letter.

Presiding Judge: How can this be?  Roethke does not belong
to the office of Knochen, does he?

State Attorney Bach:  Roethke is the Specialist for Jewish
Affairs attached to the Commander of the Security Police,
namely Knochen.

Presiding Judge: Did not Roethke take Dannecker's place?

State Attorney Bach:  Yes, Dannecker had also been a
specialist attached to Knochen.  Knochen was the Commander
of the Security Police and the SD in Paris.  Dannecker,
Roethke and Brunner were Specialist Officers for Jewish
Affairs.  Just as Eichmann was the Specialist Officer for
Jewish Affairs in the Main Office, attached to Heydrich and
Kaltenbrunner, so Dannecker, Brunner and Roethke were
Specialist Officers for Jewish Affairs attached to the
Commander of the Security Police.  In professional matters
they would receive instructions from Eichmann, because they
belonged to Section IVB4, but from the local administrative
point of view they were specialists attached to the

This is in fact the administrative structure we shall find
in every single country.  We shall see the same thing in
Holland, where Eichmann's man on the spot, a man named
Zoepf, is the specialist; he belongs to IVB4, corresponds
with the Accused, receives instructions from him, drafts all
the letters and deals with all Jewish affairs.  But the
Commander of the Security Police is always another person
who also deals with other matters, not only with Jewish

Presiding Judge: Yes, thank you.

State Attorney Bach:  On the reply it says: Signed -
Mueller.  Mueller is the one who actually signs, but we can
see that IVB4 drafted the telegram.  And it says here:
"Final Solution of the Jewish Question in France.  The
renewal of the operation, on which you report, is very good
news, especially as the Reichsfuehrer-SS has demanded a
speeding up of the work during these very days."  Then he
says, it is difficult to send the reinforcement requested,
but one officer and three SS N.C.O.s will nevertheless be
made available.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/486.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 1523.
Here Laval's resistance to the German activities reaches its
peak and he embarks on a strategy of delay.  Roethke reports
again that he has had a talk with Laval.  We stress this
point, too, that a man of Roethke's rank could have such a

Presiding Judge: Roethke was in the company of a
Hauptsturmfuehrer Geisler.

State Attorney Bach:  Geisler apparently held a higher rank.

Presiding Judge: Was he from this office?

State Attorney Bach:  No, he was apparently the KdS
(Commander of the Security Police) in this zone, the Vichy
zone.  Here he describes the struggle, Laval's assertions
that he did not know these Jews were liable to arrest and
that Petain was very worried.  There are all kinds of very
typical marginal remarks here:

When Laval says that he did not know in advance what was to
be expected as a result of the Law, it says here (in the
margin): "The old fox has known this for a long time."  And
when Laval adds the following:

     "If we wanted to proceed earlier against the Jews in
     the original occupied zone" (before the meeting with
     Petain) "he should have protested in his capacity of
     Head of Government.  True, he knew what we did with his
     interventions (Laval was apparently thinking about the
     waste paper basket and rightly so) ...Therefore, also
     in the original occupied zone, he would be unable to
     put the French police at our disposal for the purpose
     of arresting these Jews.  If we wanted to proceed on
     our own, he could not prevent us from doing so" - the
     person who reports this (and who also wrote the remark
     in brackets) adds in the margin: "Impertinence becomes

Presiding Judge: The marginal remark is apparently that of
someone else, of the person to whom the report was

State Attorney Bach:  And at the end it says: "In conclusion
it can be said: The French Government is no longer willing
to do its share in regard to the Jewish Question."

There is one more matter which he adds here: He says: "One
gets the impression that Petain wants to prevent the
adoption of the Law since numerous Jews have protested
violently to him against the draft.

     "(A few minutes before Laval received Geisler and me,
     he (Laval) had received the Jew Lambert, the President
     of the Union of the Jews in Southern France.  The Jew
     Lambert informed Darquier's representative, who had
     also been briefly heard by Laval, that he had
     'complained' to the President against the arrest of
     Jews by detachments of the Security Police (SD) - in
     the South of France."

Roethke adds: "Telegraphic order for the arrest of Lambert
has been given in the meantime."

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/487.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 664.
This is again an interim report by Roethke about the
deportation of 52,000 Jews.  But this is not the reason why
I am submitting the document.  It refers on the second page,
first in the middle, then at the end, to:

     "The arrest of all Jews who can be located through
     large-scale commitment of detachments of the Security
     Police (SD) and of special task force units with the
     help of German Army troops.  By the end of 1943 the
     Jews shall and must, all of them, be deported to the
     East from the area occupied by us or they must be taken
     back by those states which are still dragging their
     "Italian attitude continues to be one of lack of
     understanding.  Italian army and Italian police protect
     the Jews by all the means at their disposal.  Italian
     zone of influence, especially the Cote d'Azur (Riviera)
     have become a veritable promised land in France for the

He talks about the mass escape, which is aided by the
existence of thousands of secret passages and by the help of
the French civilian population and authorities, who
sympathize with the Jews.

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/488.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 1524.
Roethke writes that, when Jews are arrested, there is no
need to make records.  "All family members are to be taken
together with the person arrested, in order to prevent acts
of revenge and possibilities of propaganda."  This is an
order, signed by Roethke, to the Einsatzkommando of the SD,

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit No. T/489.

Was all this after the occupation of the area which had
previously been unoccupied?

State Attorney Bach:  Yes.

The next document is our No. 1215.  It deals with aged Jews
in old age homes.  Roethke writes:

     "...With our consent, Jewish old people were allowed to
     be sent to the Rothschild Old Age Home in Paris.
     However, the Rothschild Old Age Home was to a large
     extent emptied during the last weeks through transfer
     of the Jews for the purpose of deportation from the
     Drancy Jewish camp.  Jewish old people who were sent
     from there to the internment camp Ecrouves should not
     be transferred to Jewish old age homes in Nancy or
     Luneville but instead to the Jewish camp Drancy - to
     the extent that these Jews are still more or less fit
     for transport."

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/490.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 132.  A
letter from the Accused to von Thadden, which refers to a
Jew of Romanian nationality named Rosenthal, whom the
Romanian Government has asked not to deport from France.
The Accused says that:

     " seems undesirable, from the point of view of the
     Security Police, and also within the framework of
     measures for ridding Europe of Jews, that the Jew
     Rosenthal should continue to remain in France, even if
     the Romanian Government accords the Jew Rosenthal a
     special position on account of alleged services to

Presiding Judge: We said - headings only.  True, we said
this many days ago, but it still stands.  Not everything
that has been translated need be read.  The subject has to
be seen in its general aspect.

State Attorney Bach:  I am trying.

Presiding Judge: With all due respect, I do not think you
are trying hard enough.  This will be exhibit T/491.

State Attorney Bach:  The documents which follow concern
Monaco.  I shall summarize their contents in two sentences.
It may perhaps be possible to submit them together, so that
they will receive one number.  Our numbers of the documents
are: 390, 392, 393 and 966.  The Accused went to Monaco and
there he learnt that there still were 15,000 Jews there.  He
reports and requests that they be expelled immediately.  The
Foreign Ministry investigates and comes to the conclusion
that, on the basis of the data, there are only 1,000 Jews.
The Ministry writes to Eichmann and asks: How is it
possible, our information says there are only 1,000 Jews.
Eichmann replies again that this is not possible.  But in
the end it turns out that there are only 1,000 Jews.  And
then Guenther writes and asks that these at least be
deported at once.

Presiding Judge: Your document No. 390 will be exhibit
T/492; document 392 will be exhibit T/493; document 393 will
be exhibit T/494; document 966 will be exhibit T/495.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is a typical one; it
is No. 665.  The Accused has received secret information
that in Switzerland attempts are being made to obtain
citizenship of a South American country for the Jew Gollub,
in order to enable him to go abroad.  This Jew is at present
in the Drancy camp. He passes this information on and
requests the matter be investigated and that the Jew Gollub
be arrested immediately and, if possible, to include him in
the evacuation transport to the East, to reception camp
Auschwitz.  Signed: SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann.  Only
because in Switzerland efforts are being made to obtain for
this man a visa to a South American country.

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/496.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 1520.  It
is a report by Roethke to the Accused, IVB4.  He reports
again about the activities of the Italians and mentions a
Jew named Donati who is with the Italians in the South, has
influence among the Italians, and is supposed to be doing
much for the rescue of Jews.  Roethke informs the Accused
that an attempt was made by German agents to infiltrate into
the Italian area and abduct Donati, but the operation did
not succeed, especially as there had been instructions to
act with the utmost care in view of the prevailing German -
Italian relations.

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/497.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document is our No. 1220.
Brunner reports about a train containing 1,000 Jews.  This
is a report by Brunner.  He reports about the train and he
specifies what items of food were sent on this train -
flour, potatoes, sugar, coffee, etc., but he adds: I request
not to use high-value foods for KZ (concentration camp)

Judge Halevi:  Was this special food not usually carried on
these transports?

State Attorney Bach:  We do not know, this does not appear
in the report.  But since some of these foodstuffs might
serve for those arrested, it was found proper to add this
explanation.  This document was also numbered T/37(309).

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/498.

State Attorney Bach:  Now we have again one of those
individual cases which are so typical, our document No.
1589.  I shall only summarize the contents: A Jew named
Weiss has made a certain technical invention which prompts
Roethke - and we have seen his attitude - to write to the

     "...Weiss has made this invention in connection with
     electric bulbs.  He says that the invention may even be
     of importance for the war effort, because it can be
     used during alarms and blackouts. Roethke asks for
     instructions whether, in view of the fact that the
     invention may possibly be of great value, that Weiss be
     kept in Drancy, or whether he is to be sent to Bergen-

And here is the short reply:

     "Since, after examination of the documents transmitted,
     it was ascertained that Weiss has already registered
     his invention with the Reich Patent Office, there is no
     further interest in the matter here.  I request that
     the aforementioned be included in the Jewish measures
     in accordance with the guidelines."

And at the end an annotation "Leaves on the next transport."

Presiding Judge: Who signed the annotation?

State Attorney Bach:  That he is to leave on the next

Presiding Judge: Yes.

State Attorney Bach:  This is somebody in Paris, because it
is already after Eichmann's reply that there is no further
interest in the man, as he has already handed over the
patent to the Reich Patent Office.  Drancy is advised to
deport him at once.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/499.

State Attorney Bach:  The next document, No. 295, Your
Honours, is a short telegram.  "All Jews and Jewesses
holding Argentinian citizenship are to be arrested
immediately.  These Jews are to be sent under guard to the
holding camp Bergen-Belsen without delay, there to be handed
over to SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Seidl, who is in charge of
Security Police matters.  The property of the arrested is to
be seized.  Further instructions will be given after
implementation report."  Signed: Eichmann, SS

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/500.

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