The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-024-04

Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-024-04
Last-Modified: 1999/10/10

Q. Did you ever witness a scene with another SS man - Keidash?

A. Yes. Keidash was an SS man who was a menace to the
ghetto. Once, accompanied by another SS man he came near the
place where I was concealed. There was a pit there,
camouflaged with branches and leaves, and there were four
women there and one little girl aged about seven. These two
approached, noticed them and ordered them to come out. They
began striking them with whips and asking them why they were
hiding. They began to beg for mercy, saying that they were
young women, wanting to live, wanting to work, and that was
why they had hidden themselves. They began to strike them
with whips with such force that it was possible to hear from
a distance how their bones were being broken. After that
they ordered them to get up and run away. And then they took
out revolvers and shot all four. Thereafter they again came
up to them, examined them, and again tested with their feet
to see whether the women were still alive, and fired a
number of additional shots into them.

Q. Do you remember one other scene with Keidash, with a
woman and a baby, a year or a year and a half old?

A. Yes.

Q. Please describe it to the Court.

A. The place where we had hidden bordered on the Aryan
section. There was a fence there. This Keidash caught a
woman there who had been hiding with a baby about a year and
a half old. She held the child in her arms. She began to beg
for mercy from Keidash, who shot her, leaving the baby
alive. On the other side of the fence stood Poles who raised
their hands with the intention of catching the child. She
wanted to give the child to them. He snatched the baby from
her, fired two shots into her stomach, and then he took the
child in his hands and tore him apart the way you would tear
up a rag. The baby yelled. He threw the child away and
laughed. The mother drenched in blood crawled towards the
baby and in this way they died together. He laughed and saw
that an ownerless dog was passing, a stray dog. He took the
dog, started patting it, took something out of his pocket,
sugar or something like that, took the dog and went away
with it.

Q. Please continue your description in reply to my
questions, Dr. Buzminsky. In November 1942 they told you
that they no longer needed you and that you should not come
to work any more. Is that correct?

A. Yes. The ghetto commander was a man called Schwamburger,
an SS man. At the place where I worked he gave orders to
release everyone. It was necessary to concentrate all of
them in the ghetto. I saw with my own eyes an old man, one
of the ghetto inmates, who was walking and carrying pieces
of wood taken from demolished houses. Collecting these was
permitted. It was cold at the time. Schwamburger saw him,
went up to him and asked where he had taken them from. The
man replied: from a demolished house. He then took out a
revolver, put it against his throat and fired. The bullet
emerged near his eyes, and as a result he fell, with his
blood pouring out. No one was allowed to approach him.

Q. Let us come to the operation of November, in which you,
too, were deported. Do you remember this operation?

A. Yes. On 18 November the ghetto was surrounded and towards
morning SS men entered. Together with 50 others, I sat in
the bunker. The operation ended at approximately 3 o'clock
in the afternoon. After 3 o'clock someone in the bunker
pushed aside the sack which closed off the hatch of this
bunker. We heard a voice and we saw a guard, an orderly of
the "Ordnungsdienst," who said: If there is anyone here in
the bunker - please come out for otherwise they are going to
throw hand-grenades. Not far from there - about 50 metres
away, SS men were walking. One of the women inside the
bunker pushed her daughter out of the window of the bunker,
so that she could save herself. When the daughter crawled
through the hatch, the SS men spotted her, they began to hit
her, to kick her and she showed them where the entrance to
the bunker was.

Q. And then they took you out of the bunker?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: Were you also in this bunker?

Witness Buzminsky: Yes. The SS men and the Gestapo stood in
a row, and each one had a rod in his hand. Everyone who came
out of the bunker received blows. Anyone who had the
strength and managed to run - got his blows, but he managed
to run. In the end he had to stand in line. The weak ones
got their blows and were killed on the spot. Amongst them
there was a girl, the daughter of a certain lawyer, who was
ill. They brought us to the square, stood us in a line, took
from us all the valuables that there were, and stood us up
to kill us by shooting. I stood in line together with my
brother and we deliberately tried to face the muzzles of
their guns so that they would shoot us in the heart.

Attorney General: Why?

Witness Buzminsky: For we knew that normally they only shot
one bullet, and anyone who still remained alive, was buried
alive, and thereafter they added lime to the pit - to the
grave. At the very last moment, a group of SS men came there
and asked what was going on.  One of the said that they had
taken fifty Jews from the bunker and were shooting them, as
they had been ordered to do. Then the commander said to
them: "These are fat Jews. All of them will be good for
soap." And then they took us to the train, to a transport
that was still waiting there and had not left. The loading
was done in the following way: These were high Russian
freight-waggons; they had no steps and each one had to lift
the other in order to put him into the waggon. Surrounding
us were the SS men with dogs, and a group of men stood
before the entrance to the waggon. An elderly woman stood
there and at a particular moment a SS man set his dog on
her. The dog jumped on her and tore off a piece of flesh
from her buttocks, and brought the piece of flesh to his
master. She screamed in great fright and jumped into the
high waggon, on top of the people. All these Germans laughed
a great deal. We were loaded - more than one hundred people
- into this waggon and they slammed the door.

Q. Dr. Buzminsky, did you know that this was a transport to

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you people enter the waggon?

A. We were helpless. They pushed us in there, and our morale
was completely broken. They had prepared us for over many
months. When we heard their voice, we lost all will-power.
We trembled. It was a mass psychosis. People weren't able to
overcome it. In the waggon we were all pressed together, we
were crowded together, and in front of the waggon there
stood Ukrainians who guarded us, and they laughed and said:
"Very good, we will have a lot of soap." "All of them are
going in order to be turned into goulash."

Q. Perhaps we can now make it short, Dr. Buzminsky. You
jumped from this train?

A. Yes.

Q. You walked in the direction of the forest, you hid
yourself and went back to Przemyzl?

A. Yes.

Q. After some time you entered a bunker together with a
number of people, and there a Polish woman hid you?

A. I first returned to this Polish woman, for I had nowhere
to go back to. She had been left on her own. They killed her
father and transferred the remaining members of her family
to Germany for labour. She remained with her small sister,
aged 7, and when she saw me bleeding all over and broken,
this woman, who had previously been my neighbour in the
place where I lived, took me in, washed me and gave me a
place where I could sleep.

Q. And you remained there until the Russian army reached
Przemzl and liberated you?

A. Before that I went back to the ghetto, and in the ghetto
I saw a German, Schamburger, who had shot and murdered
people, beating up a young lad, giving him 80 lashes with a

Q. Do you see here, in this Court, that same lad who
received the 80 lashes?

A. Yes.

Q. Is he police officer Goldman, who is sitting at my side?

A. Yes. Normally a young man could not survive after 50
blows. And, generally, after 50 blows the young man would be
dead. Since he survived 80 lashes, and he then ordered him
to run and he ran, he let him remain alive. Thereafter I saw
another member of the Gestapo, named Reisner, who came into
the ghetto one evening in order to amuse himself with women.
There he came across a Jewish lad about 18 years old and was
about to shoot him. The lad attacked the Gestapo man,
stabbed him with a knife, took his revolver away from him
and fled. The Gestapo man was only wounded. They took him to
hospital and took 50 Jews as hostages. The next day they
caught the lad. They executed 25 of the hostages, and this
young man, together with two others, as well as a dog, were
hanged publicly in the ghetto.

Q. Afterwards you returned to the bunker, and hid there and
hence you were saved?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: You clearly went through a great deal and
you have much to tell, but this must suffice for us, since
we have to continue within the limits of the trial.

Witness Buzminsky: I should like to add something more and
then conclude.

Q. By all means.

A. When I was in the bunker, about three months before the
liberation, we noticed a girl 6 or 7 years old playing in
the yard. Men of the Gestapo and the SS arrived and
surrounded the yard. This was a Polish family of eight
souls. They began to beat the little girl with whips and
they executed all of those who were in the yard. Afterwards
my wife was informed that this was a Jewish girl whom this
family had hidden and for this reason they executed the
entire family.

Q. Subsequently you married the woman who saved you and she
is now with you in Israel - and she is your wife?

A. Yes, I married her and took care of her little sister who
is now a doctor in Poland, and I am here, now, with my wife.

Presiding Judge: Dr. Servatius, do you have any questions to
this witness?

Dr. Servatius:  I have no questions to the witness.

Presiding Judge: Thank you, Dr. Buzminsky, you have
concluded your testimony.

Attorney General: I call Judge Carmel. Until Judge Carmel
arrives I shall submit two documents to the Court.

Presiding Judge: It occurs to me that I omitted to state
that the picture, which was submitted by Mrs. Shiloh, was
marked T/250.

Attorney General: I shall submit two documents; one speaks
of deportations. A notice from the office of the German
railways of 28 June 1942 about deportations from various
places, amongst them a train with 5,000 Jews from Przemyzsl
to Belzec.

Presiding Judge: This document will be exhibit T/251. Who
signed it? Ganzenmueller?

Attorney General: Ganzenmueller - he was
Reichsverkehrminister - (Reich Minister of Transport).

The other document is our No. 1537, in which Ganzenmueller
is advised that "this information, that it will be possible
to dispatch these trains, has been received for attention
with special joy." The document was sent from the 
Fuehrerhauptquartier (Fuehrer's Headquarters) on 13 August 1942.

Presiding Judge: This will be exhibit T/252.

Attorney General: I now call Judge Carmel.

[ The witness is sworn.]

Presiding Judge: What is your full name?

Witness: My name is Israel Carmel.

Attorney General: You are a Magistrate?

Witness Carmel  I am a Magistrate in Tel Aviv.

Q. Were you at one time Consul for Israel in Poland?

A. I was Consul for Israel in Poland.

Q. Did you interest yourself in the problems of the

A. That is correct.

Q. In particular you conducted research into the diary of
Hans Frank who was the Governor General of Poland?

A. Yes.

Q. In the framework of this research did you also assemble
certain extracts from the volumes of Frank's diary relating
to the extermination of Jews in the area of the

A. That is right.

Q. Did you work for some time on this?

A. I worked for a long time. For several months I read the
microfilms, and I copied everything that related to the
Jewish problem.

Q. Where is this microfilm?

A. The microfilm of the original document is kept in the
archives of Yad Vashem. By their courtesy I was able to
study it and conduct my research.

Q. And did you compare the microfilm with the copies?

A. Yes. And in addition to that I compared it with the
corresponding passages in volume 29 of the International
Military Tribunal.

Attorney General: The Judge compiled this collection from
the diary of Frank on Jewish matters.

Presiding Judge: This volume of the International Military
Tribunal - is that the protocol of the trial of the main war

Witness Carmel  Yes. Document PS 2233 which was submitted by
the Polish and Soviet Prosecution, and also the American
Prosecution, relating to the responsibility of Eichmann -
pardon me - of Frank in the main Nuremberg trial, but it
does not include all the material.

Q. How many volumes of Frank's diary are there, Judge

A. Thirty-eight volumes, roughly about 11,000 pages,
including the indices. I went through the whole of it.

Q. The Poles also published part of this diary, but not all
of it?

A. Yes, by the historian, Piotr Petrovsky, but this was
specifically related to the Polish problem and I dealt
specifically with the Jewish problem.

Q. Did you compile the Jewish collection?

A. The Jewish collection.

Q. Do you wish to submit what you compiled to the Court?

A. I also translated it. I assembled all these extracts for
I wanted to draw the attention of the Court to them, and
with the Court's kind indulgence, if it should be possible,
I shall also read certain portions.

Q. I shall ask you shortly to read out certain extracts.

A. I shall also submit to the Court a Hebrew translation
which I have prepared.

Q. Did you yourself make the translation?

A. I am responsible for the exact translation and also for
the photocopies of the corresponding pages, which I have
verified and they are marked.

Q. Do you have a copy?

A. Yes - of the Hebrew translation and the original.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/253.

Attorney General: Judge Carmel, are you able to tell us in
general terms what Hans Frank's diary contains?

A. The title, The Diary of Hans Frank, is likely to mislead.
Actually this is a collection of minutes of meetings of the
Generalgouvernement, all the activities, day by day of the
Generalgouvernement, all the meetings of the Chief of Police
of the Generalgouvernement with the heads of departments,
and speeches having official importance. In fact this is a
document containing everything that was done since the day
he commenced his duties. At the beginning of the compilation
I indicated that he entered his office on 23 October 1939
and continued in that capacity until May 1945, until
officers of the Seventh American Army discovered in Neuhaus
volumes bound in red - these 38 volumes -  received them
from the hands of Frank, and used them in the main trial in
Nuremberg. This includes all his activities. Here and there
are also Jewish issues. The most interesting thing is that I
did not find in it decisions on the Jewish question, but
only Berichte (reports) - as if the Generalgouvernement had
a passive role and that in fact everything had been done by
the Gestapo,which received regular reports.

Q. Please be good enough to turn to section 3 of your
collection - this is the protocol of the second conference
of the heads of departments, of 8 December 1939. Is that

A. Yes. "Meetings of the Heads of Department 1939-1940.
Minutes of the second Conference of Heads of Departments of
8 December 1939. Page 3 (page 4 in the Hebrew translation)
"SS Gruppenfuehrer Krueger speaks of the questions arising
out of the implementation of the resettlement of residence
from their places of residence (Umsiedlung). From 1 December
many trains move to the zone of the Generalgouvernement,
each day carrying Poles and Jews from the areas recently
annexed to the Reich. These deportations will continue until
approximately the middle of December. From Berlin a
centralized programme has been devised, so that the heads of
the provinces will be able to act in accordance therewith
and to operate for a long period. In this programme the
number of the Poles and the Jews who are to be resettled
from their places of residence in the year 1940 has been
laid down."

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.