The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-070-05

Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-070-05
Last-Modified: 1999/06/08

Q. Of these, there were, as you know, thousands, tens of
thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions?
A. Millions.

Judge Halevi:  She wanted to add something - there were
further transports...?

Attorney General: And there were those who did not receive
tattoo marks, these were Hungarians who came towards the
end, is that correct?

Witness Kagan:   Yes.  That was important.  There were two
possibilities: there were those from the ramp, for whom
there was no place in the crematorium, and they were placed
temporarily in the depot.  They were not given marks.  And
we know that to be tattooed was a sign, a very small one,
for continuing to live.  Because of that, it was most
important to inform the Hungarian transports that they
should ask to be tattooed.  This task was performed by a
friend of mine who was a Kapo in the "Naehstube" (sewing
room).  She had her chances.  She promised her superior that
she would make her a dress, the like of which she had never
seen in her life, but she would have to allow her to go on
the Sunday to Birkenau, to the camp of the new arrivals.
And she went there.  She made her promise to her and she
kept it.  Marta approached the Hungarians and told them, she
advised them that they should ask to be tattooed.

Q. Human relations among the workers, among the prisoners,
can you say something about that?

A. In this hell of Auschwitz, we, for our part, remained
alive owing to the fact that there was friendship between
us, however strange that may seem.  In this place, there was
friendship, and there were many instances of solidarity.
This was not the case everywhere.  The differences were
considerable.  In a Kommando where there was a collaborator,
such as our Kapo, in the Politische Abteilung and in the

Q. But within the unit that you knew?

A. In our unit, we dragged typhus patients with a forty
degree temperature, we dragged them to the office so that
they should not remain in the camp, so that they should not
be included in a selection.

Q. Is that what kept you going, a solidarity of human
relationships, friendship and mutual help?

A. And devotion which knew no bounds.

Presiding Judge: Dr. Servatius, do you have any additional
questions relating to these last questions?

Dr. Servatius:  I have no questions.

Presiding Judge: Thank you very much, Mrs. Kagan, you have
concluded your testimony.

Attorney General: I call the next witness, Mrs. Esther
Goldstein, and I would request Exhibit No. T/1118.

[The witness is sworn.]

Attorney General: Are you a member of Kibbutz Kfar Ruppin?

Witness Goldstein:  Yes.

Q. In 1944, you were deported to Auschwitz from detention in
Katzow, which is in Carpatho-Russia?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: Was this Hungarian territory?

Witness Goldstein:   Yes.

Attorney General: Which members of your family accompanied

Witness Goldstein:   My father, my mother, my three sisters,
a married sister with her two children, and my brother.

Q. Who, of all these, remained alive?

A. My sisters and my brother remained alive.

Q. One of the sisters had two children - did they survive?

A. No.

Q. I have here a set of photographs which are included in
Exhibit T/1118.  This is about the holocaust of Slovakian
Jewry.  With the Court's permission, I shall mark the
photographs which the witness will be able to identify.  May
I approach the witness?

Presiding Judge: Certainly.

Attorney General: [approaches the witness] Can you identify
yourself in this photograph?

Witness Goldstein:   Yes.

Q. Where are you?

A. In the middle, with a white kerchief.

Q. Can you identify anyone else in the photograph?

A. My sisters.

Attorney General: We shall mark these photographs in the
album which we have already submitted.

[To witness]) In this photograph, can you identify anyone?

Witness Goldstein:   My father, our doctor, Dr. Kellermann,
our pharmacist Belsher, another pharmacist - Weishaus, the
owner of the grocery store - Sager.  [The foregoing are
marked in the album: the father - X, Dr. Kellerman - XX,
Belsher - XXX, Weishaus - XXXX, Sager - XXXXX].

Q. Do you recognize them in this photograph?

A. Yes.

Q. Whom do you recognize in this photograph that I show you

A. Kornfeld - a neighbour of ours; he was conscripted into
an Hungarian labour camp, he came on leave, was injured, and
was also taken away with us.  Here is Mr. Kramer, the owner
of a grocery store, and Mr. Roth - owner of an iron store.
[The foregoing are marked in the album: Kornfeld - X, Kramer
- XX, and Roth - XXX].

Q. Where were these three photographs that I have just shown
you taken?

A. The photograph in which I appear, I remember, was taken
after the selection in Auschwitz.

Q. Do you remember when the photograph was taken?

A. Yes.

Q. Who took it?

A. A German in SS uniform.

Q. And where were the other two photographs taken?

A. I cannot say.

Q. From the surroundings, does it tell you anything?

A. That it is next to the railway station in Auschwitz, for
they travelled together with us.

Presiding Judge: Do these photographs appear in the album?

Attorney General: Yes, Your Honour, we have marked here the
places where they appear.  We can hand the Court these
photographs which the witness has identified, and perhaps
the book will also be before the Court.

Presiding Judge: I have marked these three photographs
T/1333, T/1334, T/1335.  Was the witness in this photograph?

Attorney General: Yes, with the white kerchief, in the

Here is a picture of people in prisoner's garb.  Can you
identify anyone here?

Witness Goldstein:   Yes, the pharmacist, Belsher.

Q. The one you recognized in the previous photograph
standing at the station?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recognize him here in prisoner's garb?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: Where is he in these pictures?

Attorney General: In photograph No. 2, marked with three
X's.  We shall mark him here with an X.

Presiding Judge: With glasses?

Witness Goldstein:   Yes.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1336.
This last photograph is not in the book?
Attorney General: I think all the photographs are in the
book.  We took them from the book and enlarged them.  [Shows
a photograph to the witness) In this picture, you are not
able to identify anyone, but can you recognize the place?

Witness Goldstein:   I can also recognize the women - here
are the Shmilowitz sisters and the Miller sisters from our
village.  Four Miller sisters.  [The Shmilowitz sisters are
marked with X's and the Miller sisters with circles].

Q. Did they arrive together with you, in the same transport?

A. Yes.

Q. Is this the place where the selection was made?

A. Yes.

Q. In this photograph, are you able to recognize the two
girls who can be seen in the front of the picture?

A. I don't remember their names, but these were twins, also
from our village.

Q. Did they also arrive with you?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: The two photographs will be marked T/1337,

Attorney General: Is this what a women's roll-call in
Auschwitz looked like?  Is that correct?

Witness Goldstein:   Correct, but that was not our camp.

Q. But in your camp, too, it looked like that?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1339.
Attorney General: [Shows a photograph to the witness] This
is what women looked like when going out to work in
Auschwitz, is that right?

Witness Goldstein:   Yes.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1340.

Attorney General: [Shows a photograph to the witness]) Is
that how the camp looked before the selection?

Witness Goldstein:   Near the railway.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1341.

Attorney General: [Shows a photograph to the witness] Was
that also near the railway, after your arrival?

Witness Goldstein:  Yes.

Q. How long did you stand like this, as shown here in the

A. Not for long.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1342.

Attorney General: [Shows a picture to the witness] Where is

Witness Goldstein:   Near the railway, before the selection.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1343.

Attorney General: [Shows a photograph to the witness] Is
this fence which appears here behind the people familiar to

Witness Goldstein:   Yes, it is an electrified fence with
high tension.

Q. Was this the high tension electrified fence of Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1344.  Is
this photograph also in the book?

Attorney General: All of them are in the book.  If there
should be any difficulty, we can point it out to Mr.
Bodenheimer during the recess.

[Shows a photograph to the witness] And finally, this
photograph.  Can you recognize anyone?

Witness Goldstein:   I recognize a woman here, but I cannot
give you her name, since I don't remember.

Q. Is she from your village?

A. No.  I worked in the hospital in the ghetto, and there
were people with us also from the environs.

Q. In what ghetto?

A. Katzow.

Q. Where is she?

A. I have marked her with an X.

Presiding Judge: This photograph will be marked T/1345.  [To
the witness] Did you recognize someone here?

Attorney General: She recognized a girl who worked with her
in the hospital in the Katzow Ghetto.  I have marked her
with an X.

Mrs. Goldstein, of all these people whom you have identified
in these photographs, who survived after the War?

Witness Goldstein:   My brother and my sisters.

Q. Of all those whom you recognized in the photographs?

A. I know of one only, whose name was Kramer.

Q. Just that man?

A. I am not aware of anybody else.

Q. You were taken off the freight cars, you were told to
leave your personal effects behind?

A. Yes.

Q. Who gave the orders?

A. An SS man.

Q. Were the women separated from the men?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the women and children stand together?

A. Yes.

Q. Did your sister hold her daughter - a baby - and her son,
who was five years old?

A. Yes.

Q. An SS man camp up to your sister and asked her...

A. My mother was standing near us.  He asked her whether she
was our mother, and she said yes.  Then he said to her:
"Give the children to your mother."  She said: "No, they are
mine, I will not hand them over."  There was an argument.
Afterwards, he called to a prisoner in prisoner's garb to
translate for her, possibly in Yiddish, perhaps she would
understand better.  Then he said to her: "If you want to
live, give your children to your mother."  She said: "No,
they are mine, I will not hand them over."  Then the SS man
came up to her, took the little girl and gave her to my
mother, and he took the boy also by force.

Q. And they are no longer alive?

A. No.

Q. Nor your mother?

A. No.

Q. Were you in Camp C, in Birkenau?

A. Yes.

Q. How many women were there in the whole block?

A. One thousand women.

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