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Shofar FTP Archive File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-020-06

Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-020-06
Last-Modified: 1999/10/10

Attorney General: Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and Dr. Leibbrandt
from the Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Areas; State
Secretary Dr. Stuckart from the Ministry of the Interior;
State Secretary Dr. Freisler, Minister of Justice; State
Secretary Neumann, in charge of the Four Year Plan; State
Secretary Dr. Buehler, Office of the Governor General; State
Undersecretary Luther, Foreign Ministry; SS Oberfuehrer
Klopfer, Party Secretariat; Ministerialdirektor Kritzinger
from Hitler's Office, the Reichskanzlei; SS Gruppenfuehrer
Hofmann; Head Office for Race and Settlement; SS
Gruppenfuehrer Mueller and Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann
representing the Head Office for Reich Security. And then
high officers of the Security Police and the SD.

At the beginning of the meeting Heydrich reviewed the
problems on the agenda. Right at the start he announced that
he had been appointed by the Reichsmarschall as the
Commissioner in Charge of the final solution of the Jewish
question in Europe and pointed out that the meeting had been
summoned in order to clarify basic questions. On page 3 it
says that "the responsibility for dealing with the final
solution of the Jewish question lies with the Reichsfuehrer
SS and Head of the German Police (Chief of the Security
Police and the SD), without consideration for geographical

Heydrich gave a short survey of the action taken so far
against this enemy. The main points comprised: Forcing the
Jews out of the various spheres of life of the German
people; forcing the Jews out of the land (Lebensraum)
inhabited by the German people. In implementing these
measures, the speeding up of the emigration of Jews from the
Reich area was intensified and tackled systematically as the
only possible interim solution. Heydrich goes on to quote
emigration figures and adds that the financing of the
emigration is done by the Jews or the Jewish political
organizations themselves.

Now, instead of emigration, there appears as a further
possible solution, after the necessary prior approval by the
Fuehrer, the evacuation of the Jews to the East. These
operations must however be seen as possible alternatives
only, but practical experience would be gathered here which
would be of great importance for the coming final solution
of the Jewish question. 11,000,000 Jews might be affected in
the course of this final solution, their distribution over
the various countries being as follows:

And then the following paragraph on page 7:

     "In the course of the final solution the Jews are to be
     sent to work assignments in the East under appropriate
     direction. The Jews who are able to work are taken into
     these areas as road builders in large work columns, the
     sexes being separated; a large part will no doubt
     disappear through natural decrease. The remainder, if
     any, since this would no doubt be the most resistant
     part, will have to be suitably treated (entsprechend
     behandelt werden muessen07) because, being the result
     of a natural selection (natuerliche Auslese), it would,
     if set free, constitute the nucleus for a renewed
     Jewish reconstruction. (See the experience of

Here I may perhaps be permitted to leave the Wannsee
Conference for a moment and to explain to the Court why we
have submitted T/82, Kastein's book. These are Kastein's
words, Your Honours, his book was required reading in the SD
Hauptamt (Head Office) according to T/108.

Presiding Judge: What does he say? I do not remember these
words. Did he use these words?

Attorney General: This passage precisely. This is the
historical experience which Adolf Eichmann had acquired, the
man who prepares the Wannsee principles, from reading
Kastein's book. He speaks there of "natuerliche Auslese" and
for this reason we have submitted the book.

Judge Halevi:  Let the Wise be careful in choosing their
words.* {*Quotation from Sayings of the Fathers, Mishna,
Chap. I, v.11.}

Attorney General: There is no limit to distortion if you
wish to distort. We thought it would be relevant to the
trial to pursue that expression and to try and find out from
where Eichmann quoted the "Erfahrung der Geschichte"
(experience of history).

Presiding Judge: What page was that, 16?

Attorney General: Yes. May I point to the near-certainty
that this is the source of that lofty idea.

Judge Halevi:  Of this reasoning.

Attorney General: Of the reasoning.

And here Heydrich goes on to say: "In the course of the
practical implementation of the final solution we shall comb
Europe from West to East... In the occupied countries and
the countries under our influence in Europe. The officer in
charge on behalf of the Security Police will act in
coordination with a suitable responsible officer from the
Foreign Ministry."

There follows a detailed discussion of matters pertaining to
mixed marriages and their offspring. The last pages are
important for us and I should like to draw attention to
them. In the original they are also underlined in several

     "Secretary of State Dr. Buehler stated that the
     Generalgouvernement would welcome it if the final
     solution of this question were to begin in the
     Generalgouvernement for here, first of all, the problem
     of transport played no major role and considerations of
     labour employment would not impede the course of the
     operation. The Jews have to be removed from the area of
     the Generalgouvernement as fast as possible because it
     was particularly here that the Jew as carrier of
     epidemics posed a great danger, and, on the other hand,
     caused constant disorder in the economic structure of
     the country by his illicit trading. Furthermore, of the
     two and a half million Jews under consideration, the
     majority are unfit for work."
     This is underlined in the original. State Secretary Dr.
     Buehler says further that "the solution of the Jewish
     question in the Generalgouvernement lies, from the
     point of view of executive authority, in the hands of
     the Security Police and the SD, whose actions will be
     assisted by the authorities of the
     Generalgouvernement". He has only one request: "To
     solve the Jewish question in this area as quickly as

And finally the various kind of possible solutions were
discussed, and at the same time Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and
State Secretary Dr. Buehler held that certain preparatory
work had to be undertaken immediately to further the process
of the final solution in the regions concerned, but in any
case panic must not be spread among the population.

The reaction by the Accused has already been related to you,
Your Honours, and I shall not repeat it.

The next document is our No. 841. Heydrich sends the Wannsee
Protocol to Luther at the Foreign Ministry: He is glad to
say that the basic guidelines for the practical
implementation of the final solution of the Jewish question
have been adopted with the full consent of all the
authorities concerned. He asks the Foreign Ministry to send
its specialist for these matters for consultations on the
details necessary for the elaboration of the proposal. He
says: "I beg to request you to instruct your specialist to
get in touch with my competent head of section, SS
Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann."

Presiding Judge: This will be T/186.

Attorney General: The next document is our No. 842. It is a
communication from Rademacher of the Foreign Ministry to his
dear Comrade ("Lieber Kamerad") Eichmann.

Presiding Judge: I see there is indeed a remark on it,
apparently from Luther to Rademacher: "Bitte schriftlich
mitzuteilen..." Please inform in writing...)

Attorney General: "Please inform in writing that you are the
person dealing with the matter and will participate." From
Luther to Rademacher. Accordingly, No. 842, which I have
just submitted to you, is Rademacher's announcement to his
good friend, "Lieber Kamerad," Eichmann, that, in response
to Heydrich's invitation, he, Rademacher, has been delegated
and that he will take part in the meeting called by Eichmann
for 6 March 1942 at 10.30.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/187.

Attorney General: We have the record of proceedings of the
meeting of 6 March 1942. It is our No. 446. This has already
been submitted to you, Your Honour. Perhaps Mr. Bodenheimer
will help us. How is our 446 numbered?

Clerk of the Court  T/100.

Attorney General: T/100, I submit it.

Presiding Judge: This means that it was already submitted
without reference to T/37. There is no need to submit it

Attorney General: This cannot be. I think it is included in

Clerk of the Court  "Conference for Sterilization of Persons
of mixed Parentage".

Presiding Judge: Yes. This is No. 446. We shall see
immediately how this came about. You submitted this in
connection with the organized structure of the various

Attorney General: The Court will kindly permit me at this
stage to state only that T/100 is the protocol of a meeting
about the sterilization of Jews. This was a discussion of
principles dealing with the most efficient method of
sterilizing the offspring of mixed marriages. In the end it
was decided to have a further discussion. In this protocol
the Court will find an exchange of views between the various
participants. The meeting took place in Referat IVB4, but
Eichmann does not appear among the participants [although]
the discussion was held in his Section. The Court will note
that those present were representatives of the Ministries of
Propaganda and Justice, Dr. Feldscher from the Ministry of
the Interior, Representative of the Reich Chancellery Boley,
Dr. Wetzel, whom we shall meet again, Rademacher from the
Foreign Office, and others.

And now document No. 876. It is a covering letter to the
report of the meeting of 6 March 1942 from Department IVB4
signed by Suhr, a subordinate of the Accused, who submits
the protocol of the meeting.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/188.

Attorney General: The next document is our No. 1206. Again
an invitation on behalf of IVB4.

Presiding Judge: Excuse me. You are interested in the minute
Sir. This is only a covering letter.

Attorney General: Yes. I am interested in the minute and
also in the covering letter.

Presiding Judge: Where is the minute?

Attorney General: I have already submitted it. It is T/100,
that is the record of proceedings.

Presiding Judge: Oh, this is a covering letter to T/100.

Attorney General: In the context of the implementation of
the final solution, in the framework of the sterilization
programme, the document which bears our No. 1206 was sent
out and it is an invitation signed by Suhr to a further
meeting in IVB4 on 27 October 1942. You have it already as
T/37 (308).

Presiding Judge: This will be T/189.

Attorney General: This document is mentioned in the
statement of the Accused from page 3510 onward. We have the
record of proceedings of the meeting of 27 October 1942 in
T/37 (94). The participants in this meeting in Eichmann's
Department IVB4 represented numerous offices. This time
Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann also appears. I submit it. The
Court will again find Boley, Wetzel and Feldscher among
those present.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/190.

Attorney General: "It was decided to perform sterilization
on every consenting son of a mixed marriage. Those not
consenting will be deported from the Reich. Deportation is
preferable to sterilization."

Presiding Judge: What page was that?

Attorney General: I shall immediately indicate this to the
Court. The document was shown to the Accused. At first it
says: "The sterilization shall be carried out voluntarily.
But it is a condition for the person remaining in the Reich
area and it constitutes an agreement given in return by the
offspring in the first degree of a mixed marriage for the
favour of being allowed to remain in the Reich territory."

Judge Raveh:   The choice is apparently mentioned on page 2
in the middle.

Presiding Judge: Who presided over this consultation? Is
this known?

Attorney General: This is not clear to us from the document
itself. It stands very much to reason that Eichmann presided
since the consultation took place in his Referat. He was
asked about it and the Court will find his reaction on page
1330 and following pages.

The next document is No. 829 of the Prosecution documents.
Eichmann forwards the record of proceedings to the Foreign
Ministry and asks the Ministry to take a stand on it within
four weeks.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/191.

Attorney General: Luther from the Foreign Ministry gives
Eichmann his opinion. This is Prosecution document No. 878
and I submit it herewith.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/192.

Judge Halevi:  He mentions here a letter of 2 October 1942,
a conclusive opinion concerning the final solution of the
Jewish question, an opinion of the Foreign Ministry - will
this still be submitted?

Attorney General: This has not yet been submitted, Sir.

Judge Halevi:  He also says here that, in the opinion of the
Foreign Ministry the less severe form of solution has to be
chosen in each case.

Attorney General: We have a memorandum from the Foreign
Ministry which I shall submit presently, but it is not dated
2 October. Among the documents before me I do not have this

Judge Halevi:  Because the Foreign Ministry documents are
the ones that have been preserved.

Attorney General: But the difficulty lies in the fact that
these documents comprise 330 tons of paper and it is very
difficult to get to any particular document. But I shall try
and find out.

Judge Halevi:  This may have a bearing on the question of
the reliability of von Thadden.

Attorney General: That is quite possible, Your Honour. I
shall try and find out.

We have just completed the question of sterilization and I
pass on to documents dealing with the plunder of Jewish
property. Prosecution document No. 908 is a note from
Rademacher addressed to to several Reich offices, among them
Eichmann, saying that in view of the progress of the
expulsion of the Jewish population from the various
countries of Europe and the experience gathered therefrom,
the questions of mutual compensation for property have come
to the fore again. He therefore calls for a meeting on this
matter at the Foreign Ministry.

Presiding Judge: This document is marked T/193.

Attorney General: The meeting took place on 30 July 1942,
and this is the report sent out as a result.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/194.

Attorney General: On page 2 the Foreign Ministry lets it be
known that it was agreed, in coordination  with the Head
Office for Reich Security that there would in principle be a
mutual relinquishing of claims by the Reich and by the
foreign countries, concerning the property of their Jews
living abroad since this was the only way to achieve a quick
and final settlement and to avoid an endless chain of
difficulties as well as discussion in specific cases. "In
order to enable the operation already begun to be continued
and not to endanger the solution of the Jewish question
which is under way in Europe, the negotiations with the
Governments concerned are to be conducted on the basis of
the territorial principle and the Ministry requests
agreement thereto. In view of the urgency and far-reaching
importance of a quick settlement of this question it is
requested that possible misgivings on individual cases be
disregarded and a decision formulated as quickly as

And here is a document dated 24 October 1942 in which
Klingenfuss from the Foreign Ministry informs the Head of
the Security Police: "I confirm herewith that all the
Authorities which took part in the consultation in the
Department at the Foreign Ministry on 30 July agreed to the
application of the territorial principle". This is the reply
to the letter of IVB4 dated 22 October 1942.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/195.

What is this? I see that on the document it says "Konzept"

Attorney General: "Durchdruck als Konzept" (copy as draft).

Presiding Judge: "Konzept" means draft?

Attorney General: It says here "Durchdruck als Konzept."

Presiding Judge: I don't understand. Yes, there is a

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