Archive/File: people/b/buchanan.pat buchanan.0695 From firstname.lastname@example.org Tue Jun 27 00:52:10 PDT 1995 Article: 22728 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.org.batf,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!news.mathworks.com!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!bzs From: email@example.com (Barry Shein) Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan In-Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org's message of 26 Jun 1995 16:28:30 -0400 Message-ID:
Sender: email@example.com (Barry Shein) Organization: The World References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 21:19:21 GMT Lines: 114 Xref: news.port.island.net talk.politics.misc:204795 talk.politics.guns:154294 soc.culture.jewish:103797 misc.legal:73671 alt.revisionism:22728 alt.politics.org.batf:4020 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:178329 alt.conspiracy:68170 From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Scott Wilhelm) >What evidence do you people have that Buchanan is a racist or >anti-semite? I actually do not know if Mr Buchanan is a racist or an anti-semite, per se. I do believe he's a moron who makes outlandish statements and does things which I'm not surprised some interpret as such. For example, Buchanan's putting forth Fritz Berg's claims that it's impossible to kill people with diesel gas fumes as is recorded to have been done by the Nazis during WWII (and in reference to exactly that.) In the first place, why does Mr Buchanan feel it necessary to comment like that in his nationally syndicated news column on such an issue? Is he some sort of expert in the matter? Did he believe he was clearing something or other up for everyone? He's certainly free to make such comments, but then again we're all free to conclude the man is therefore a moron. Second, why use Fredreich Berg as a source? Mr Berg is on the board of directors (as it were) of the "Insitute for Historical Review", a group whose sole purpose is to try to deny that the Holocaust ever occurred at all. They claim no one was killed, purposely, in the Nazi death camps during World War II. What a wonderful source Mr Buchanan chose! Moron! Mr Berg has been seen on these groups posting things like: From: email@example.com (Friedrich Berg) Date: 17 Jul 1994 01:49:55 GMT After reading Shein, can anyone really be surprised that the Germans would people like him in concentration camps during WW2. That is precisely where people like him belonged--that is the only thing his talmudic logic, his filthy sophistry, is ever able to prove. FPBERG and in response to someone else: From firstname.lastname@example.org Fri Jul 1 11:57:13 EDT 1994 # Maybe some other engineer out there in cyberland will have the patience # to teach this Jewish trash something about the real world. I have lost # my patience. # FPBerg What a wonderful and erudite guy this Berg is. There's other stuff like that. BTW, the German Tourist Board a few weeks ago fired Berg's wife for her involvement with Berg's "work". The point being, Mr Berg is utterly wrong, has been pushing this "diesel engines can't kill" theme as part of his refutation that the Holocaust occurred at all, and Mr Buchanan is a moron for using Mr Berg as a source, and his judgement seriously suspect for even thinking Mr Berg's claims were true. You would think something inside Mr Buchanan's dense head would have said hmm, this seems to refute a rather basic claim regarding the holocaust, maybe before publishing this as fact in my nationally syndicated column I should check this out! No, too much to ask. Moron! One could only imagine how Mr Buchanan proposes to handle information and fact-finding were he president of the united states. I for one would rather not have a president who is so gullible and likely to send us all off on a bigfoot hunt because of something he read in the Weekly World News... Another question that's arisen about Mr Buchanan regarded his use of the campaign slogan "America First" in his failed presidential bid in 1992. Mr Buchanan's father was an active member of a group, "The America First Committee", during World War II. This group was a Nazi-sympathizer group, later associated with "The German Bund", Hitler's "Fifth Column" (Nazi supporters inside the US who Mr Hitler hoped would disrupt the US and thus help him win the war.) Mr Buchanan certainly knew of his father's involvement, he mentions it in his own 1988 book, "Right From the Beginning" on page 30, published four years before Mr Buchanan chose this as a campaign slogan. It was certainly no secret what this group was up to. For example, Shirer in his "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" talks foully of them (they're in the index.) Why does Mr Buchanan do these things? I don't know for certain. But I do believe he's at best a moron, and I'm not surprised at all that some associate foul and unsavory things with the man. Personally I'd prefer not to see such a moron as president of the united states, perhaps some feel otherwise. Free country. I suppose we've elected morons before, but I can't quite think of one of quite the moronic caliber of Mr Buchanan, and lord knows I've had low opinions of a few of our past presidents. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | email@example.com | uunet!world!bzs Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD From firstname.lastname@example.org Tue Jun 27 06:50:40 PDT 1995 Article: 22741 of alt.revisionism Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!news.mathworks.com!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: email@example.com (Aaron Gross) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.org.batf,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan Date: 26 Jun 1995 22:32:45 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> References: <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-wh6-21.ix.netcom.com Xref: news.port.island.net talk.politics.misc:204828 talk.politics.guns:154312 soc.culture.jewish:103814 misc.legal:73687 alt.revisionism:22741 alt.politics.org.batf:4026 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:178346 alt.conspiracy:68199 In <email@example.com> firstname.lastname@example.org (Scott Wilhelm) writes: > >What evidence do you people have that Buchanan is a racist or >anti-semite? Try the William F. Buckley treatise from The New Republic issue dedicated to the issue of antisemitism. Buckley's conclusion was that he could not defend Buchanan from the charge. Buchanan has consistantly chosen a narrow anti-Israel, anti-Jewish focus. He has no record of defending anyone other than those accused of being Nazis. From email@example.com Tue Jun 27 06:51:07 PDT 1995 Article: 22759 of alt.revisionism Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!news.mathworks.com!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!nntp.memphis.edu!kebarnes From: firstname.lastname@example.org Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.org.batf,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan Message-ID: <1995Jun26.email@example.com> Date: 26 Jun 95 18:40:24 -0500 References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> Distribution: world Organization: The University of Memphis Lines: 28 Xref: news.port.island.net talk.politics.misc:204855 talk.politics.guns:154329 soc.culture.jewish:103829 misc.legal:73699 alt.revisionism:22759 alt.politics.org.batf:4034 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:178375 alt.conspiracy:68221 firstname.lastname@example.org (Aaron Gross) writes: > In <email@example.com> firstname.lastname@example.org (Scott > Wilhelm) writes: >> >>What evidence do you people have that Buchanan is a racist or >>anti-semite? > > Try the William F. Buckley treatise from The New Republic issue ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^ > dedicated to the issue of antisemitism. Buckley's conclusion was that > he could not defend Buchanan from the charge. > > Buchanan has consistantly chosen a narrow anti-Israel, anti-Jewish > focus. He has no record of defending anyone other than those accused > of being Nazis. Buckley writing for _The New Republic?_ Now_there's_a switch! :) (You no doubt intended to say "National Review"...) -- **x*dna Ken Barnes, LifeSci Bldg. | Life, | NRA *(==) * The University Of Memphis | Liberty, | JPFO * \' * Memphis, TN | and the Pursuit | GOP *(=)*** email@example.com |___of Happiness!___| U-U "Everything we do looks sinister, even when it's innocent screw-ups." --unnamed White House official, _Washington Post,_ 1/7/94 From firstname.lastname@example.org Tue Jun 27 12:22:53 PDT 1995 Article: 22769 of alt.revisionism Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!news.alpha.net!news.mathworks.com!uunet!news3.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail From: email@example.com (Michael P. Stein) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan Followup-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy Date: 26 Jun 1995 23:25:23 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 69 Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> References: <email@example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net Xref: news.port.island.net talk.politics.misc:204934 soc.culture.jewish:103884 misc.legal:73724 alt.revisionism:22769 alt.conspiracy:68266 In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Wakko Warner wrote: >In article , >Adam Schneider writes: > >>The description fits Buchanan to a T. On March 17, 1990, Buchanan >>wrote in his nationally syndicated column that the Nazi gas chambers >>were a hoax and couldn't have really worked. > > You're wrong. You must have seen the quote out of context. > He said no such thing. It is true he did not say anything about Auschwitz, which used Zyklon-B (a pesticide whose active ingredient is cyanide). However, here is what he wrote about Treblinka: "Finally, the death engine. During the war, the underground government of the Warsaw Ghetto reported to London that the Jews of Treblinka were being electrocuted and steamed to death. The Israeli court, however, concluded [NB: actually, this was the conclusion of historians and _German_ courts, based on eyewitness testimony, including some by members of the SS who were at the Operation Reinhard camps - mstein] the murder weapon for 850,000 was the diesel engine from a Soviet tank which drove its exhaust into the death chamber. All died in 20 minutes, Finkelstein swore in 1945. The problem is: Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody. In 1988, 97 kids, trapped 400 feet underground in a Washington, D.C. tunnel while two locomotives spewed diesel exhaust into the car, emerged unharmed after 45 minutes. Demjanjuk's weapon of mass murder cannot kill.[...]" Buchanan, Patrick: "'Ivan the Terrible' - More Doubts" [New York Post, Saturday, March 17, 1990 - sorry, no page number legible on my photocopy]. That's the quote, with no cuts from the start of discussion to the start of another subject. Do please explain how it's out of context. In case you're wondering, I don't hold Buchanan directly responsible for this nonsense, only for repeating it without checking it out sufficiently. The original author is named Friedrich Berg. He is correct that _normally_ diesels do not give off high CO, but the technical paper he cited on diesel exhaust composition clearly shows it's possible to tune a diesel to give off high levels of carbon monoxide. Berg says it's very hard to do, but he cannot get around the fact that the authors of the paper he cited were able to do it. Nor can Berg explain why, if the Americans he cited could do it, the Germans could not have done the same thing. Nevertheless, there is a very strong possibility that the actual cause of death at Treblinka was asphyxiation caused by depletion of the available oxygen in the chamber as it was replaced by diesel exhaust with a low concentration of oxygen and a high level of NOx compounds. Unlike the train tunnel, the Treblinka chambers had low ceilings and were crammed full of people - there are citations that the SS found that they worked better the more they were filled. This is fairly strong evidence that asphyxiation was a major factor, as CO would work just as quickly with one person in the chamber. The students in the train tunnel had much more oxygen available, and I don't think the engine was running for all 45 minutes, either. Newsgroups trimmed and followups trimmed further. (I know s.c.j isn't supposed to be for Holocaust denial; I kept it for those who wanted to know the refutation of the diesels-can't-kill argument. I removed it from the followups.) Posted/emailed. -- Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
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