The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/a/adams.arlin.h/adams.0796


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  1 11:42:35 PDT 1996
Article: 22894 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 26 Jun 1996 00:43:11 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 4:48:32 GMT
Message-ID: <835764512$28775@atype.com>
Subject: to the remnants of those who style themselves 'phineas priests'.
Lines: 9


TO THE REMNANTS OF THOSE WHO STYLE THEMSELVES 'phineas priests' 'servants
of the white bull', 'followers of the panther' AND SUCH OTHER NONSENSE AS
YOU MIGHT NAME YOURSELVES:

You  seek revenge against those who were noncombatants.  While this
certainly demonstrates your true nature, it also exposes your ignorance. 
Your vaunted 'panther' fled from a penguin.  Ask him yourself...if you can
find him.


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  1 11:42:37 PDT 1996
Article: 22927 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 4:48:17 GMT
Message-ID: <835764497$28759@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Warning: If I Die on the Jersey Front
Lines: 13


In article <835722183$27037@atype.com>, mamacamp@aol.com (MamaCamp)
writes:

>
>Sorry... I must have hit the wrong key. The last message from me was
meant
>to be sent privately to Arlin.

No problem, Joyce - I don't mind *nice* messages being posted to the group
:-)

Arlin


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  1 11:42:38 PDT 1996
Article: 22948 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 26 Jun 1996 10:53:52 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 15:03:06 GMT
Message-ID: <835801386$29886@atype.com>
Subject: Re: to the remnants of those who style themselves 'phineas priests'.
Lines: 24


In article <835797791$29765@atype.com>, lance@shoppe.ucolick.org (Lance
Bresee) writes:

>Can anyone explain what the hell this guy means,
> other than to suggest that LSD dealers are transporting their
> product on AOL free disk labels?

No drugs, Lance, I promise! :-)

The three groups I mentioned in my post are, or at least until last
weekend *were* three elements of the secret orders in the upper levels of
the 'identity' movement and their associates in the AN.  Last weekend,
those folks received a lesson in humility, taught by a wide variety of
sources.  They (c.i./an) then proceeded to try to bother the families of
some folks they (incorrectly) thought were responsible.  Since we know
that the supremacists monitor this newsgroup, among others, the message
was phrased in their terms, so that they would understand it.  Of course
it also bothers the supremacists more than a little when their 'super
secret mega aryan orders' are mentioned in public:-)

Hope that helps explain it.
Best
Arlin Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:24 PDT 1996
Article: 22970 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 4:18:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: Oh, "Colonel" [note quotes] Ellenburg--- Poll Results
Lines: 9


In article <836187531$8419@atype.com>, Joseph Pothier
 writes:

> If you can't deal with the fallout from that, its your problem.

Ha! Just wait, J.P., sooner or later you'll run afoul of one of kaa's
preconceived notions...then you'll see! 



From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:28 PDT 1996
Article: 22992 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 2:03:12 GMT
Message-ID: <836272992$11280@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Who made you a Colonel
Lines: 14


In article <835976960$343@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>>couldn't say mark, but I'd bet good money that the number would be
>>significantly larger than those who would follow the leadership of a
>>lonely academic in ohio...
>
>What are you talking about?  I am a Brevet Eight-Star General of the
Rilly 
>Rilly Unorganized Militia of Ohio. 

Uh, mark, that kinda squirrely looking undergraduate who keeps following
you to the bathroom doesn't count, sorry, I forgot to mention that...


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:28 PDT 1996
Article: 22995 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 1 Jul 1996 21:57:52 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 2:03:50 GMT
Message-ID: <836273030$11328@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 50 Top Ten Demands
Lines: 10


In article <836000284$1375@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>If a kid can't support himself, he either goes on welfare or starts
>robbing the rest of us. 

sounds like about a third of the public highschool graduates out
here...you can tell them from the politicians because the politicans don't
dress as flashily...


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:29 PDT 1996
Article: 22996 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 1 Jul 1996 22:00:42 -0400
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 2:03:59 GMT
Message-ID: <836273039$11344@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Dahran Blast
Lines: 18


In article <835984983$893@atype.com>, whit@cs.utexas.edu (John W. Engel)
writes:

>>Why must every tragedy automatically be assumed to be a conspiracy by
the
>>paranoid and weak-minded?  BITCH PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>>Mike Taylor ( METaylor29 @aol.com )
>>"One idiot is harmless, two idiots are dangerous!" 
>Ain't it the truth?
>I take it you believe the truck bomb was not a conspired-upon attack
>by someone, but an Act of God, then?
>:^)

No, No, John!  mike T. is a liberal - he believes that the *bombers* were
the victims (at least as long as they aren't registered as either
Republicans or Libertarians, anyway)


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:30 PDT 1996
Article: 23000 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 2:18:36 GMT
Message-ID: <836273916$11412@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Alert: Illuminati in this newsgroup!!!!!!!!!
Lines: 10


In article <836000318$1407@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>He must get around. He and the Judds helped me change the oil in my truck
>yesterday. Then he told me that Feustel was _DEFINITELY_ an illuminati.
>
>

funny, he doesn't *look* like an Itallian car...


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:31 PDT 1996
Article: 23004 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 1 Jul 1996 22:21:25 -0400
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 2:33:34 GMT
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Subject: Re: Militia Statutes
Lines: 12


In article <835980483$758@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>No, the standard I've used is the one used by paramilitary laws, some of
>which are very old indeed, which have never--not even once--been
interpreted to 
>include the Boy Scouts.  The notion that they could is a fiction of your 
>overactive imagination.

The notion that they could not, having never been proven, remains simply
that, a notion.


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:32 PDT 1996
Article: 23010 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 1 Jul 1996 22:57:43 -0400
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 3:03:12 GMT
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Subject: Re: Will Pitcavage Have Any Comment on John Doe #2 Search?
Lines: 10


In article <836059763$3853@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>I skimmed your posts, did not read them closely.  I saw little in them I
>hadn't already read in newspaper articles.

Interesting, mark, since the mainstream media appear to find a significant
amount of new material in these posts...just what did you say your sources
were for your information on this?


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:33 PDT 1996
Article: 23039 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 21:33:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: Do NOT carry a gun!
Lines: 11


In article <836242383$9915@atype.com>, allenpete@aol.com (Allen Pete)
writes:

>Rest assured, we will clean up your blood and find a
>replacement for you within a day or two.
>
>THE MANAGEMENT

Why Allen, are you *sure* you aren't actually running as a democratic
party candidate for congress??:-)


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:34 PDT 1996
Article: 23041 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 21:33:26 GMT
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Subject: Re: Stop the madness
Lines: 7


In article <836237000$9685@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>What about pragmatism-loving statists?

a hint:  pragmatism is the word fascists love the best.


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:35 PDT 1996
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 8:33:42 GMT
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Subject: Re: Who made you a Colonel
Lines: 8


In article <836112783$5927@atype.com>, mhollomo@ix.netcom.com (Michael
Hollomon, Jr.) writes:

>Oh I see.  Does the U.S. President get to pick the Chairman of Federal
>Express?  Just wonderin.

No, though the reverse may be significantly close to the truth...


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 10:03:36 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 1:48:22 GMT
Message-ID: <836272102$11225@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 50 Top Ten Demands
Lines: 25


In article <835871583$3874@atype.com>, pgissource@aol.com (PGISSource)
writes:

>In article <835849083$3058@atype.com>, ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) writes:

>I think this thread is getting a little out of hand, but I'll rather
>bluntly give you a few final points to think about and then say no more
on
>the topic.

I agree, that we've probably gone as far as we can in civility and, as
unlike mark and tim, you appear open to reason in other areas, it would be
foolish to alienate you based on an issue of only tangental importance to
the movement.  (and heaven forfend we should start debating statistics, or
I'll spend another two weeks debating kaa...).  Let me state that even as
you find it impossible to conceive of liberty without government, so I
find it impossible to conceive of liberty without free exercise of
religion AND seperation of education from the control of the state. 
Perhaps our stands on these issues best illustrate just how divided this
country has really become...it would seem that the most basic elements of
what we consider to be society vary widely...a demonstration, perhaps that
this country really is NOT in repairable condition after all...one
wonders.
Arlin H. Adams


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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 2:03:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: 50 Top Ten Demands
Lines: 11


In article <835999384$1347@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>FWIW, I've also had a chainsaw hit a spike in a tree from an old fence.
>BFD-the chain failed, but I don't see how I cwould have been hurt by it.

Then you were very fortunate Mike,  I've certainly seen them fail and fly
away, but I've also had at least two fly back at me - that is NOT a fun
position in which to find one's self trust me...although it did prove my
reflexes weren't all *that* bad :-)


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  2 18:26:19 PDT 1996
Article: 23073 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 8:33:04 GMT
Message-ID: <836296384$12468@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Who made you a Colonel
Lines: 18


In article <836111884$5899@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>In article <836099284$5473@atype.com>,
>Scott Alan Malcomson   wrote:
>>Actually, Mark DOES think we're being seditious simply because we're
>>organized into Militia units which *he* thinks are inherently illegal.
>
>
>Your paramilitary groups are inherently illegitimate.  Whether or not
they
>are illegal depends on state law.  In Ohio, unfortunately, they are
legal.

oh, that it explains it!  no, no, mark!  most of us had parents who were
married to each other...we're very legitimate!



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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 8:33:20 GMT
Message-ID: <836296400$12484@atype.com>
Subject: Re: TOO MUCH ALUMINIUM IN THE DIET (was: MESSAGE TO JOHN-DOE CENTRAL FROM A "...
Lines: 10


In article <836152384$7081@atype.com>, bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les
Griswold) writes:

>aluminium is known to impair the mental faculties.

I could see where that would excuse your parents, les, but as far as we're
concerned *you* are still responsible for your actions...

Arlin H. Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Wed Jul  3 16:15:11 PDT 1996
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 17:03:04 GMT
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In article <836274783$11472@atype.com>, bogart1@earthlink.net (Tim Hill)
writes:

> We all laugh 

Uh, tim, just how many of *you* are there...I don't think you ever brought
this up before...MPD is a serious mental illness, usually associated with
sexual molestation as a child...hmm, but then that would explain a lot of
your reactions to the real world, now wouldn't it...


From ahabiz@aol.com Wed Jul  3 16:15:12 PDT 1996
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 17:03:16 GMT
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Subject: Re: Arizona Viper Militia
Lines: 14


In article <836274793$11488@atype.com>, AJSJ92A@prodigy.com (James
Kessler) writes:

>.  I am having serious doubts about this entire story...   

Hi James,

I agree...why is this beginning to sound like a replay of the Georgia
frame job?  hmm, guess it's easier for the feds to do this than it is to
chase the neonazidiots - a job they seem to be leaving up to us....

Best
Arlin Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Wed Jul  3 16:15:13 PDT 1996
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 15:03:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: Viper arrests
Lines: 12


In article <836270305$11095@atype.com>, "Stiv" 
writes:

>It Would appear that a new crime has been created. Anyone who says
>anything against the Federal Government can be arrested for Conspiracy to
>"Sparking Civil Disorder".  
>What's next?????
>
>

Conspiracy to conspire???


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In article <836258667$10506@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>Where is that damn psy-ops company when we need them?

deleting those silly posts as soon as they show up :-)

next question?


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In article <836327926$13560@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>A good frame job.  They went back to 1994 in a time machine, shot a video

>detailing how to blow up federal buildings, came back to 1996....

Interesting.  sounds like a First Ammendment thing to me...guess we'll
see.


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In article <836258584$10474@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>Arlin-you left the door open _AGAIN_! I order you to spend 20 minutes on
>Timmy's website without dramamine.

uh, Mike, far be it from me to shirk my responsibilities with regard to
supervising who gets in, but I might point out that this guy is posting
>from  Alaska, which, as I recall is somewhat closer to Michigan, than
Virginia....


From ahabiz@aol.com Thu Jul  4 09:44:42 PDT 1996
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In article <836314422$13038@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>A few people here seem to have had too many cousins who were married to
each 
>other.

pseudoliberals can be that way...


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Subject: Re: Dahran Blast
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In article <836402654$17763@atype.com>, metaylor29@aol.com (METaylor29)
writes:

>I think that terrorists, whether they are foreign or DOMESTIC, are the
>type of bottom-feeding POND SCUM that humanity would be better off
>without!

Agreed.


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Date: Thu, 4 Jul 96 3:33:38 GMT
Message-ID: <836451218$1083@atype.com>
Subject: Re: A warning the vipers missed
Lines: 18


In article <836436786$485@atype.com>, wjb3@mindspring.com (Billy Beck)
writes:

>Michael Sears  wrote:
>
>>Without the services of the fed's we would not be the country we
>>are today.
>
>	(oh, man...did he *really* say that??)
>
>	Uhm...Michael?
>
>	Look around you, dewd.

Now Billy, in a very literal sense, michael is entirely correct - without
the corrupt federal bureaucracy, we would not find our country in it's
current condition...or don't you think that's what he meant?


From ahabiz@aol.com Thu Jul  4 09:44:45 PDT 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 96 23:18:10 GMT
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Subject: Re: The art of War and propaganda NBC style
Lines: 43


In article <836417953$18806@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>In article <836351301$14829@atype.com>, Ukfan1a  wrote:
>>
>>I saw one report on the 2nd that had a few militia "experts" saying that
>>all militias targeted American citizens, to scare them into reforming
the
>>government.  I couldn't beleive that crap!  Is this REALLY what people
>>that are so-called "experts" (and no, none of them were Pitcavage)
beleve?
>
>Uhm, that's exactly the stated goal of the militias.  The threat of
>violence to control the actions of government, which is of course
>controlled by the people.  Of course, they'll try to talk their
>way out of my non-propagandist way of putting it.
>
>They don't realize that when they play the propaganda game they're
>in bed with the powers that be.

1.  There is no Constitutional  Militia anywhere in this country which
holds any form of targetting of the American people as a stated goal. 
There are a handful of cowardly loudmouths, mike being the current
example, whose self image is so low that they resort to feeble verbal
attempts at intimidation in order to bolster their own egos, but they are
*not* members of any CM or CCM organization, nor would they be allowed to
join one - our standards are significantly higher than that.


2.  The only one aiding and abetting the statist propaganda effort is YOU
mike.  By posting inflamatory rhetoric which *sounds* big mean and nasty
you give them further fuel for their ' the militia are all racist
lunatics' media sound bites.  The really pathetic part of this, of course,
is that you are much too cowardly to do anything *other* than talk.  Of
course this is also why so many of us believe you are actually taking the
feds money - though I doubt you'd have the courage to do that, either. 
Oh, and as far as your usual bandwidth wasting compilation of
anglosaxonisms which would constitute your *only* response to this - don't
bother. 


Arlin H. Adams


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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 13:19:16 GMT
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Subject: Re: ALERT, mass gun seizures, immediate action required!
Lines: 15


In article <836416294$18626@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>IMMEDIATE ACTION IS REQUIRED.  The officers involved should be
>confronted with like force.  Their headquarters, barracks and
>training facilities should be struck with the greatest speed
>possible.
>
>

Y'know, mike, considering you never actually do anything, it's amazing to
me that you can even have the temerity to talk like this.

Arlin Adams


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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 13:19:51 GMT
Message-ID: <836572791$390@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arizona Vipers
Lines: 12


In article <836418797$18875@atype.com>, mattn@netmanage.com writes:

>popular support is the only pillar of revolution. 
>	If a large portion of the population is not with you, your
>	revolution will definitely fail. 

Hi Matt,

Well Said!

Arlin


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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 13:49:09 GMT
Message-ID: <836574549$885@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected..  -  momp1.txt [1/1]
Lines: 13


In article <836368383$16324@atype.com>, Joseph Pothier
 writes:

>I would also like to point out at this point, and contrary to 
>Militia of Montana PROPAGANDA, that the Vipers called themselves a 
>MILITIA!!!

Uh, j.p., where did you come by this information?  I haven't heard a thing
>from  the Vipers themselves, just the usual untrustworthy newsmedia
sources...you need to remember that to most of us the MOM press releases
have *at least* as much credibility as anything the mainstream media put
out...


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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:48:37 GMT
Message-ID: <836578117$280@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected. colonel?
Lines: 15


In article <836460184$1585@atype.com>, Joseph Pothier
 writes:

>But why he would want to 
>claim a title for himself which takes other people decades of 
>training and education to obtain is an absolute befuddlement to 
>me.

Hi J.P.

has anybody explained to you about militia units electing their officers? 
I'm not sure you understand that clearly...

Arlin Adams


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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:49:06 GMT
Message-ID: <836578146$312@atype.com>
Subject: Re: McVeigh a pussy??  NOT!
Lines: 12


In article <836416998$18698@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>McVeigh is not a pussy, he is a warrior in a civil war with only a few
>active insurrectionists. 

The McV & N travelling clown show were nothing more than pawns manipulated
by a couple of white supremacist types out of Elohim City.  Barrel haulers
and fuse pullers.

Arlin H. Adams


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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:52:41 GMT
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Subject: Re: ALERT, mass gun seizures, immediate action required!
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In article <836419719$19038@atype.com>, Joseph Pothier
 writes:

>Why do you post this kind of trash?

uh, j.p. that's just mikey...he gets stoned and talks tough on the
internet, and I guess it makes him feel better...the word he uses (and I'm
not making this up) is 'manly', if you can believe it..  Sad, I know, but
since in the past he's also admitted to physically assaulting his wife, I
guess we look at his little rants as a significantly less evil way for him
to expend all that frustration, no?

Arlin Adams


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Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 16:42:28 -0400
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:53:36 GMT
Message-ID: <836578416$621@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the B.A.T.F.
Lines: 33


In article <836457571$1396@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>Which personalities have you identified? 

hiya mikey...well, either there are at *least* three seperate people who
have been posting from your email account over the last year, or you are
one seriously sick MPD patient.  Y'see there's this thing called text
analysis which helps to identify people's writing by such things as
vocabulary, usage, grammar, point of view indicators, and so on.  So
anyway, an analysis of your posts that a couple of us started early last
spring clearly indicates that there are three different primary authors of
the material that comes from your address.  One of them appears to be
fairly well read and well educated - writing at about the level of a
college senior; one of them appears to have a serious drug problem, and
generally writes at an 11th or 12th grade level, and the third writes at
about the 10th grade level, depending on obscenities to cover up his/her
lack of an adiquate vocabulary.  Patterns, mikey, people function in
patterns - this is especially true when they write, as they tend to use
vocabulary, sentence structure, and (more fundamentally) concepts with
which they are familiar.  Your posts show at least three *totally
distinct* patterns.

In other words, mikey, you're most likely an anarchist cell, probably made
up primarily of relatively immature adolescents, with a college kid or two
thrown in as leaders.  You are not now, nor were you ever, part of the
militia movement.  About the only thing we haven't figured out, due to
what appears to be gender role confusion on the part of your membership is
whether the poster who was sexually abused as a child is male or female. 
Patterns, mikey, patterns - your own words are what gave you away.

Arlin H. Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:06 PDT 1996
Article: 23420 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <836404414$17984@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 16:32:41 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:53:24 GMT
Message-ID: <836578404$605@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Who made you a Colonel
Lines: 20


In article <836404414$17984@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>In article <836402747$17797@atype.com>, AHABIZ  wrote:
>>
>>In article <836314422$13038@atype.com>,
mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>>(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:
>>
>>>A few people here seem to have had too many cousins who were married to
>>each
>>>other.
>>
>>pseudoliberals can be that way...
>
>I wish you wouldn't criticize Wizzy in that way.

I doubt that anyone besides you thought that remark was aimed at Mr.
Wizard, mark...


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:07 PDT 1996
Article: 23421 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 09:12:11 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:53:51 GMT
Message-ID: <836578431$653@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Naked Militiaboys 2 1/2
Lines: 9


In article <836407984$18207@atype.com>, jmk@worldnet.att.net (Joseph M.
Knapp) writes:

>Well, the militialoon roundup continues, and your weenies are hanging
>out for the world to see yet again.

Joey, you mom and dad are NOT going to be happy when they find out you've
been using their computer without permission.


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:08 PDT 1996
Article: 23422 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <836418821$18891@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 09:12:55 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:54:02 GMT
Message-ID: <836578442$669@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the B.A.T.F.
Lines: 14


In article <836418821$18891@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>No one in a federal office building is anything other than a tyrant or
>a child victim of the tyrants.
>
>No government worker who loved the constitution could do their job.
>They'd be fired for refusing to undertake almost every assigned task.

you, of course know ?how many? federal employees mikey?  and you have ?how
much? experience in dealing with the federal bureaucracy.  man, whatever
it is you picked up to party with over the 4th must be a *lot* stronger
than whatever you're usually on...


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:08 PDT 1996
Article: 23427 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <836422616$19252@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 09:13:05 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 14:54:50 GMT
Message-ID: <836578490$749@atype.com>
Subject: Re: A warning the vipers missed
Lines: 23


In article <836422616$19252@atype.com>, dveytsel@freemark.com (George W.
Trowbridge III) writes:

>Do you think there is going to come a time within
>the next couple of decades when this will become more realistic to a
>lot of people. It's interesting when I talk to someone about the
>militias. They start yelling Nazis and racists, perhaps I was affected
>by this garbage for a while... How can most people know what a militia
>is about? After all the average American turns on the TV and sees mild
>garbage of news stories, and trashing of "the right". It's hard for
>most people to see the danger of what you talk of for preparing above.
>It is too unrealistic. Too crazy. After all they say, we live in a
>democracy... 

All good points, George...we are indeed fighting an uphill battle in the
public relations area, and we have a considerable amount of power and
money arrayed against us.  None the less, we continue to grow...how? 
Primarily by word of mouth.  The message *is* spreading, slowly, and
people are beginning to realize that we are *not* as the media portrays
us.  Time, as they say, is on our side.

Arlin Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:09 PDT 1996
Article: 23444 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 16:32:31 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 16:48:38 GMT
Message-ID: <836585318$268@atype.com>
Subject: ABC NEWS  ON AOL RUNNING ANTI-GUN 'POLL'
Lines: 6


The ABC News site on AOL is running a poll on whether or not all guns
should be outlawed.  I strongly urge anyone currently on AOL to go to
keyword ABC NEWS and tell these folks what *you* think about the idea....

Arlin H. Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:10 PDT 1996
Article: 23453 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 4 Jul 1996 16:35:49 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 17:18:20 GMT
Message-ID: <836587100$400@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Viper arrests
Lines: 39


Hmm, well, gary's post doesn't seem to have made it onto aol, so I'm
having to respond by quoting firebird's quote of gary's post...if anybody
can follow that...:-)

>In article <836370184$16648@atype.com>, garyn@tir.com (Gary Newberry)
says:
>>On Tue, 2 Jul 96 15:03:03 GMT, ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:
>>:>In article <836270305$11095@atype.com>, "Stiv"

>>:>writes:
>>:>
>>:>>It Would appear that a new crime has been created. Anyone who says
>>:>>anything against the Federal Government can be arrested for
Conspiracy to
>>:>>"Sparking Civil Disorder".  
>>:>>What's next?????

>>:>Conspiracy to conspire???
>>Perhaps it would make more sense to have waited until they actually
>>blew something up, say an IRS office with 'EVIL' government people
>>inside and say your mother picking up tax forms .... would that be 
>>more to your liking Mr. Patriot ??????

Nice try Gary, but no sale.  You see, if we start arresting everybody who
talks about doing illegal things at some nebulous point in the future,
we'll end up arresting a fair portion of the population - say all of those
folks who are conspiring to repeatedly have unprotected sex with strangers
after consuming large quantities of adult beverages - thus *in point of
fact* conspiring to receive and transmit AIDS.  Then of course we have all
of those people who conspire to drive under the influence of alcohol - why
there must be several million of *them* every weekend - and they're
actually just conspiring to attempt to kill people with their drunken
driving.  Deadly possibilities? certainly!  Justification for arresting
them *before* they do anything other than talk about it?  Not likely!

Arlin H. Adams  




From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:10 PDT 1996
Article: 23466 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 04:44:36 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 8:48:05 GMT
Message-ID: <836642885$3280@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the B.A.T.F.
Lines: 7


In article <836578284$484@atype.com>, goryder@teleport.com
(1-800-Go-Ryder) writes:

>What were the children doing there?  Why were they there?

I believe that they were in the daycare center...


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:11 PDT 1996
Article: 23473 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 05:26:08 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 9:33:04 GMT
Message-ID: <836645584$3393@atype.com>
Subject: Re: SC Militia Plans Immediate ACTION
Lines: 9


In article <836578480$733@atype.com>, Ward Mead 
writes:

>The Time is ripe for all-out action. We don't just talk 
>a good game. If you've got what it takes, go to:

yet another weird adolscent wanders into the newsgroup..and his parody
page isn't even that well done - ward, you need to talk to tim...


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:12 PDT 1996
Article: 23474 of misc.activism.militia
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Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 05:08:09 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 9:18:04 GMT
Message-ID: <836644684$3334@atype.com>
Subject: Re: REVOLUTION REVEALED
Lines: 9


In article <836578239$442@atype.com>, discern7@aol.com (DISCERN7) writes:

> Do we as Christians want to
>Christianize and dilute July 4th, which is filled with so much darkness
>and wickedness in order to celebrate it?  It was wicked in its inception
>and it continues to be used for wickedness today.

LOL!  okay, Al, how much did pitcavage pay you?


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 12:09:12 PDT 1996
Article: 23475 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 05:16:52 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 9:18:29 GMT
Message-ID: <836644709$3350@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Dahran Blast
Lines: 12


In article <836578354$522@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>If terrorism means targeting government office buildings of your enemy,
>I'd suggest that no military force in recent history has been anything
>other than terrorist and no war could be fought without this terrorism.
>Government workers and people in their buildings are not civilians, they
>are targets.

If that is your attitude, then you are no different from those you seek to
overthrow.  


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 14:34:44 PDT 1996
Article: 23520 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 04:55:50 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 9:03:03 GMT
Message-ID: <836643783$3306@atype.com>
Subject: Re: To those who deny our Nation was founded on GOD
Lines: 23


In article <836578229$426@atype.com>, jstevens@cyberg8t.com (Jason
Stevens) writes:

> How sad it is that some dwellers of the greatest Christian
>Nation, once favored by God, have forgoten and blinded themselves to
>the truth of our origin.

uh, Jason, there's this thing called the Bill of Rights - you may have
heard of it?  Article I of the Bill of Rights, otherwise known as The
First Ammendment to the Constitution, specificly requires that this
country's government remain absolutely NEUTRAL on religious matters.  Yep,
no kidding!  check it out! 

Now that's not to say that I don't think religion is a good thing - quite
the opposite, actually, as most people know from my posts on other issues.
 Indeed, I believe it is relatively essential for the survival of liberty
that people have some sort of spiritual relationship with their Creator. 
HOWEVER, from it's inception as a nation, The United States as a country
has promoted religious diversity, not sought to stifle it.  In other
words, you might want to rethink your analysis on this.

Arlin H. Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 19:10:32 PDT 1996
Article: 23523 of misc.activism.militia
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 07:51:15 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 12:03:04 GMT
Message-ID: <836654584$3611@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Majority Rules (minority crybabies)
Lines: 21


In article <836621284$2440@atype.com>, E London 
writes:

>Its funny that some people say that minority rights rule when it comes 
>to the majority passing gun laws, but balk at minority voting rights 
>when it comes to black voting districts.  In my book, the majority 
>rules.. that's democracy, and if you don't like it, you don't like this 
>country.

Hiya E.L. care to name a gun law that was put in place by referendum (i.e.
majority vote)?  Also, please be specific about who you think might be
balking at minority voting rights? For that matter, perhaps you might
define what you mean by 'minority voting rights' - I belong to a minority,
I'm a Libertarian, and I've never had anybody impinge on my voting rights.
 Every citizen has the same voting rights in this country, as long as
they're willing to exercise them.  You're going to have to be a bit more
specific if you've got problems with how people are acting - your current
accusations make no sense.

Arlin Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 19:10:35 PDT 1996
Article: 23524 of misc.activism.militia
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 07:52:55 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 12:03:13 GMT
Message-ID: <836654593$3627@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Georgia flag ban at Olympics
Lines: 9


In article <836621304$2472@atype.com>, E London 
writes:

>If Jews love blacks as much as everyone thinks, why does Farrakhan 
>dislike Jews so much?

faulty logic E.L. - just because there is appreciation in one direction,
doesn't automaticly mean that appreciation will be returned.


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 19:10:39 PDT 1996
Article: 23538 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 6 Jul 1996 12:14:34 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 16:18:30 GMT
Message-ID: <836669910$4139@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the B.A.T.F.
Lines: 21


In article <836640189$3141@atype.com>, mamacamp@aol.com (MamaCamp) writes:

>What do my posts say about me? Just wonderin'. 8-)

oh, no, wait a minute!  that bit with figuring out who/what/how many
'mikey' s there are took a *lot* of work  - you aren't expecting us to do
that sort of thing for *fun* are you? Besides, there are some real privacy
issues here - yes I know everything that's posted effectively becomes a
part of the public record, but very few people realize just how much of
themselves they reveal, over time, in their writing.  The only reason we
went through all of this in the case of the chapman entity was due to the
threat his ravings pose to the movement as a whole. 

Sorry, but I'd really rather not spend all those evenings sorting messages
again any time soon, especially in analyzing a friend...hmm, though if you
weren't married...oh never mind.

Best
Arlin



From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 19:11:15 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 16:34:04 GMT
Message-ID: <836670844$4215@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Children! Profanity! more.
Lines: 8


In article <836641094$3186@atype.com>, Morgoth  writes:

>Basically if you all want to expose the Feds, win our freedoms back, then
>we need to work together as adults! So what if the Feds want to be little
>children, then they will loose in the end!!

Exactly!  Well said Mike!  Well said!


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 19:11:16 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 16:48:30 GMT
Message-ID: <836671710$4362@atype.com>
Subject: Re: To those who deny our Nation was founded on GOD
Lines: 9


In article <836660906$3831@atype.com>, pgissource@aol.com (PGISSource)
writes:

> though as a country we have sometimes been less perfect in the
>implementation than in the ideal.

uh, Wiz, I think that has to do with the fact that we're a nation of
*human beings*, y'know?


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 21:14:55 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 17:48:04 GMT
Message-ID: <836675284$4535@atype.com>
Subject: Re: To those who deny our Nation was founded on GOD
Lines: 46


Hi Dan,


>Jefferson was not one to support organized religion.  In fact, he was
>known as somewhat of a "clergy basher."  But his interpretation of the
>First Amendment on the matter of religion is clear in this paragraph
>from his January 23, 1808, letter to the Presbyterian minister, Samuel
>Miller:
>
>    "I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by
>the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their
>doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the
>provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment, or
>free exercise, of religion, but from that also which reserves to the
>states the powers not delegated to the U.S. Certainly no power to
>prescribe any religious exercise, or to assume authority in religious
>discipline, has been delegated to the general government. It must then
>rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority."  

Okay, I don't have any problem with this, per se, as long as the last line
of the Jefferson quote is taken to mean what it says - i.e. there are
limits to human authority in religious matters.  My point in citing the
Bill of Rights was that the original poster appeared to be considering the
country as a whole, and as such, the *national* policy of religious
tolerance was set out in the 1st Ammendment.  While this has not always
been true at the state level, at least on the east coast [when the first
Unitarian congregation was formed in Mass. for example, a Presbyterian
minister rode through the countryside - a la Paul Revere - shouting "The
Unitarians are coming! The Unitarians are coming!" :-) ] it became defacto
policy the farther west this country grew. 

 As immigrants from a wide variety of cultures moved west, each took with
them their respective religious beliefs and practices.  Each group brought
with them their own unique ways of acknowledging and interacting with God.
 A process which we see continued right through to today.  Indeed I would
submit this is one of our greatest strengths *as a nation*.  For, rather
than following the old model of attempting to force everyone to relate to
the Divine in only one way, a model which inevitably resulted in
alienation and discord; we have instead built a country in which each
person may find that manner of religion through which God speaks to her or
him most clearly.  Thus we insure that the spiritual needs of all citizens
may be met - One Nation Under God.

Arlin Adams 



From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 21:14:56 PDT 1996
Article: 23559 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 17:49:46 GMT
Message-ID: <836675386$4583@atype.com>
Subject: Re: INTERNET SHOCKER from GORE-->>
Lines: 16


In article <836670889$4263@atype.com>, jdulaney@nntp1.best.com (John
Dulaney) writes:

>	AS.....
>	Internet Access Providers are bought up, one-by-one, by larger
>	corps. and pressure is brought to bare we can only imagine that
>	POLITICAL WEB PAGES, NEWSGROUPS, FTP sites etc. will be
>
>	REMOVED/KILLED/CENSORED and/or CANCELED - possibly their authors
>	---------------------------------------
>	harassed, arrested or set-up and killed. All in the name of
>				National Security.


evidence/examples please??


From ahabiz@aol.com Sat Jul  6 21:14:57 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 18:03:22 GMT
Message-ID: <836676202$4625@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected. colonel?
Lines: 42


In article <836667194$3994@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>I vote for Arlin as eighteen-star general and grand mystic poobah!

uh, thankyou for your vote of confidence...I think.  Actually Mark, when I
was stationed with the Army in the southwest, there was a local gun store
that made a fortune selling military style caps with *twelve* stars on
them - I think just about every G.I. I knew had one in the closet some
place :-)

More seriously though, for any group to function effectively there has to
be someone arbitrating decisions,  someone with final authority and
responsibility for the groups actions.  The usual practice among militia
units is to elect those with the most experience to such positions.  Some
groups formalize this structure through the use of military ranks and
titles, some (such as the folks I work with) do not.  It varies by the
type of group, the culture and expectations of the local community,  the
background of the unit members, and so on.  

Which, I think, brings us to the critical issue in this whole discussion
of the use of ranks, titles, and what have you.  There are really *two*
types of authority in any kind of organizational structure - what might be
called *legal* authority - that is authority derived from a specific set
of legal requirements and responsibilities; and *actual* authority - that
authority a person has simply because it is acknowledged to exist by the
other members of the group or organization.  Anyone who has ever
functioned in a military organization in a real world environment, or even
in a corporate bureaucracy, can think for a minute and see that these two
types of authority are *not* synonymous - all they have to do is ask
themselves 'who did I go to if I needed to be sure something would get
done?' - generally speaking, *that* person was the one with real
authority.

Now understanding that you, and J.P., and Mike H. all deny the legitimacy
of our movement, you may, consistent with this, attempt to deny the
*legal* authority of militia ranks and titles.  I would submit, however,
that you *cannot* deny the actual authority of the the persons so elected,
within the units which elected them.

Arlin Adams 


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  8 20:05:38 PDT 1996
Article: 23577 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 96 4:18:15 GMT
Message-ID: <836713095$5899@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Dahran Blast
Lines: 100


In article <836675353$4551@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>If your attitude is otherwise, you have no intention of fighting any
>effective war for any purpose.  

Since no one in your cell has anything like a military background, you
have absolutely no basis for making this determination - which is why you
are just plain wrong.

>It's really easy for you to take this
>stand now; it will be unthinkable when you are forced to action.

again that is simply untrue.  As I've stated before, 'mikey' your cell
members need to stop drawing their 'military experiences' from cheap
paperback novels.

>  I don't seek to overthrow the targeting of government buildings in war,
I think
>it's a damned good strategy and you won't find many generals who
disagree.

hmm strategy for what?  You obviously aren't fighting a war, nor are you
preparing to do so  - none of your cell members do anything except post on
the internet.  certainly if what you are doing is trying to set real
militia members up to be perceived as terrorists then your strategy might
have some merit - that is if it wasn't universally condemned by all of the
real militia folks here.  

>I seek to overthrow federal and even state hegemony and the violation of
>rights.  

No, you don't.  You do nothing other than post on the net.  You are
nothing more than a group of adolescent anarchists who like to feel macho.
 You do nothing effective, and you will never do anything effective -
anarchists are some of the biggest cowards around - we all know that.

>You have no right to work in the buildings of an evil government,

'mikey' your cell members have no authority to decide anyone's rights
other than their own.

>and if you're there when that government comes under attack, TOUGH SHIT,
>take it up with them and wonder what the hell you were doing there
anyway.

no, that's not the way it works.  If you *were* ever able to work up the
courage to do something like this - a highly doubtful prospect at best -
then you would be nothing more than another terrorist, and as such we
would help bring you to justice, in the same manner we are currently
working toward the arrest of the other parties responsible for the OKC
bombing.

>Oh wait, you've SIDED with that government?  Good, defend it and DIE WITH
IT.

HAH! 'mikey' you're the ones whose insane rants are providing the
government with 'proof' that the militias are terrorist organizations -
it's your cell which is contributing to the negative public perception of
our movement...if there is anyone here who may be said to truly be aiding
and abetting the federal government, it's YOU.

>I deviate from the government in a very important manner.  I would never
>attack an organization whose intent was not immoral aggression.  Those
>who participate in immoral aggression lose their right to live through
>their participation in that violent conspiracy. 

uh, hello?  those statements aren't even rationale, nor do they accurately
reflect your true nature - your group simply wants others - we in the real
militias - to become involved in open and violent confrontation with the
federal government, while you sit back and do nothing.  As I noted above,
anarchists such as yourself are inherently cowardly, and your continued
presence in this newsgroup just re-emphasizes that fact.


>Let me repeat for you one last time (God willing) - WAR IS NOT
>DIRECT SELF-DEFENSE.

we are engaged in defense of our families, our communities, and the
Constitution - nothing more.  If you do not accept our limitations, then
you are NOT part of us, nor are you in any way related to our efforts.

>  IT IS DEFENSE AGAINST A GROUP OPERATING
>UNDER COMMON GOALS AND COORDINATION TO ATTACK YOU.  THE JANITOR
>IS NO MORE INNOCENT THAN THE SOLDERS WHOSE BUNKS HE CLEANS.

Only in your minds, 'mikey'.  Innocence and guilt in a democratic society
are determined on an individual basis.  I realize fascism has an inherent
appeal to your adolescent macho mindset, but none of us here want anything
to do with it.  Once again you are totally and fundamentally wrong.


>WHEN THE BUILDING IS BOMBED, THE DEATH IS ON THE HANDS OF THE
>AGGRESSOR.

No 'mikey' it is the responsibility of those who bombed it - and should
you ever do so (hah!) we would hunt you down the same way we are hunting
down the supremacist types who were behind the OKC tragedy.  End of
discussion.


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  8 20:05:39 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 96 8:33:03 GMT
Message-ID: <836728383$6367@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arizona Viper Militia
Lines: 27


In article <836711356$5828@atype.com>, mhollomo@ix.netcom.com (Michael
Hollomon, Jr.) writes:

>suppose it might be more comfortable for you to assume it is some
>falsified government conspiracy rather than what, on the facts
>released to date, it plainly appears to be.

Hi Michael,

well, I'm not sure how many of the facts have actually been released so
far.  First off, all those 'threatening to blow up buildings' charges that
were bandied around the first day have apparently been dropped by the feds
- no sign of them on the charge sheet, as I understand it.  Next the
'hunter' who supposedly discovered these guys now turns out to have been
some sort of state law enforcement officer, a deputy U.S. marshal, and
'acting undercover as a biker'...whatever that means....in other words the
'facts' seem to be mutating in this case almost as fast as they did in the
Georgia frame up.

Thus it still smells funny, and we obviously don't have the whole story
yet...guess we'll just have to wait and see, no? [BTW: Personally I
recommend following, at a minimum, both the CNN and NandO net news sites -
they have a lot of overlap, but a lot of times one picks up details the
other one misses.]

Arlin Adams


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  8 20:05:40 PDT 1996
Article: 23622 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 96 4:18:03 GMT
Message-ID: <836713083$5883@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the B.A.T.F.
Lines: 40


In article <836674384$4476@atype.com>, mike@paranoia.com (Mike Chapman)
writes:

>Do you cry for all those German children and women who suffered
>from one tyranny only to be murdered by another in acts of outright
>terrorism?  Do you stop to think about those Japanese babies who
>were vaporized, burned and irradiated by the US government in yet
>further acts of terrorism?  Has the US ever indicated that those
>policies were actually murderous and unjustified?  Have you?

Yes I do, Yes I do, and Yes I have. Your cell needs to coordinate better
'mikey' we've had this discussion before...it's just that whichever one of
you is writing today doesn't seem to have been briefed on it - ah well,
yet another example of why adolescent-mentality anarchists will never
succeed.

>Do you call for the arrest of pilots who terrorized civilians in world
war II?

somehow prosecuting guys in their '70's doesn't seem like a very
profitable exercise, now does it?  Moreover we must learn from the
mistakes of the past - not use them as excuses.

>  Do you think pilots in desert storm were terrorists
>because they bombed iraqi office buildings housing all those innocent
>civilians and no doubt children?

Actually they bombed military facilities...in a couple of instances - the
fake command bunker in Baghdad being one that comes to mind, the Iraqis
managed to get them to con them into bombing civilians, but that nice high
rise you saw bombed was the Headquarters of the Iraqi Air Force...you
really need to start paying more attention to detail - Iraq is a
dictatorship and there is *very* strict seperation of military and
civilian facillities.

In other words 'mikey' there is *no* justification for terrorism under any
circumstances.

Arlin H. Adams 


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  8 20:05:40 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 96 3:35:00 GMT
Message-ID: <836796900$8991@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected. colonel?
Lines: 15


In article <836794089$8598@atype.com>, Joseph Pothier
 writes:

>I can not speek for Mark and Mike. As for myself, I certainly DO 
>deny the actual authority of these "elected" [note quotes] 
>persons. 

Hi J.P.

hmm, an alternative then: if such officers were elected by the voters of
the whole community, would you still object?  I'm not trying to be dense
here...just seeing what, if any, alternatives you might find reasonable.

Arlin


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  8 20:05:41 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 96 15:48:36 GMT
Message-ID: <836840916$10697@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected. colonel?
Lines: 8


In article <836836393$10558@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>The militia is a statutory institution and bounded by law.

in your mind, mark...to us it's a traditional institution, bound by
tradition.


From ahabiz@aol.com Mon Jul  8 20:05:42 PDT 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 96 13:18:13 GMT
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Subject: Re: Arizona Viper Militia
Lines: 11


In article <836796788$8835@atype.com>, jhistorian@aol.com (JHistorian)
writes:

>Hilter was not elected to office; he was APPOINTED.

technically true but dodging the issue, Jim.  Hitler was *appointed* as
chancellor after his party managed to gain enough elected seats (and
enough influence through intimidation) to force his appointment...if the
nazis hadn't been elected initially he couldn't have been appointed...so
he was, in fact, the product of an elected government.


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 10:37:46 PDT 1996
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 2:48:21 GMT
Message-ID: <836880501$12697@atype.com>
Subject: Re: To those who deny our Nat
Lines: 10


In article <836869714$12110@atype.com>, hempster@io.org (frankenchrist)
writes:

> Uhh..sorry to burst your bubble Steve, but God ain't real.
>
>

He (or She as the case may be) is very real to many of us frankie, whether
or not you are willing to deal with the issue personally.


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 10:37:47 PDT 1996
Article: 23776 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (bee05221ce510b5128e085c7d7af48f0)
References: <836842684$10751@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 8 Jul 1996 20:18:45 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 0:33:03 GMT
Message-ID: <836872383$12249@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected. colonel?
Lines: 11


In article <836842684$10751@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>I'm afraid that's not true.  When did you think that the militia was not
>bound 
>by law?
>
>

When did you think it was bound only by law?


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 10:37:47 PDT 1996
Article: 23777 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <836858894$11589@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 8 Jul 1996 20:19:23 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 0:33:37 GMT
Message-ID: <836872417$12281@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arizona Viper Militia
Lines: 11


In article <836858894$11589@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>They were a militia.  You folks are just going to have to live with the
fact 
>that YET ANOTHER MILITIA GROUP has done something wacko.

most of us don't see anything they've actually *done* as wacko...a bit
overly publicized perhaps, and certainly their leadership skills need some
work, but so far nothing 'wacko'.


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 13:37:01 PDT 1996
Article: 23803 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 9 Jul 1996 11:02:32 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:18:25 GMT
Message-ID: <836925505$15023@atype.com>
Subject: Re: A little love note in my inbox
Lines: 13


In article <836893084$13439@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>Well, here's one of the little bundles of joy that people like to send
me.

uh, Mike, don't sweat it - all it means is that you are effective enough
that someone feels threatened by you...trust me, you ain't the lone ranger
on getting weird mail...:-)

Best
Arlin


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 13:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 23805 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 9 Jul 1996 11:03:51 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:18:48 GMT
Message-ID: <836925528$15039@atype.com>
Subject: Re: May I look in your trunk?
Lines: 10


In article <836895819$13771@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>Did this come from Chapman or Vargas?
>
>

naah, that was from helliot, the kid who trolled through here a couple of
times last winter, and then got bored....


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 13:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 23806 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 9 Jul 1996 11:02:13 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:19:06 GMT
Message-ID: <836925546$15055@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Viper Militia vs. Communist Party
Lines: 11


In article <836802207$9282@atype.com>, mcarp@qns.com (Michael Carpenter)
writes:

>The charges against them pertain
>specifically to explosives and firearms - nothing more.

actually I believe two of the three counts are 'conspiracy' charges, and
nothing more.  What I have yet to learn is whether any of these folks were
licensed as Class III owners...something that the media
not-so-mysteriously seems to be ignoring...


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 13:37:04 PDT 1996
Article: 23808 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <836901188$14039@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 9 Jul 1996 11:04:38 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:19:25 GMT
Message-ID: <836925565$15071@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Chapman Article
Lines: 9


In article <836901188$14039@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720)
writes:

>Uhh, Arlin? Which plant wrote this one? The high school sophomore?

actually Mike, that *may* have been written (longer posts are easier to
identify than shorter ones) by the college kid...the one who likes you so
much :-)


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 13:37:05 PDT 1996
Article: 23813 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 8 Jul 1996 09:15:34 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 96 13:18:28 GMT
Message-ID: <836831908$10311@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arizona Viper Militia
Lines: 47


In article <836796830$8887@atype.com>, jhistorian@aol.com (JHistorian)
writes:

>Arlin Adams wrote:
>
>>well, I'm not sure how many of the facts have actually been 
>>released so far.  First off, all those 'threatening to blow up 
>> buildings' charges that were bandied around the first day have
>>apparently been dropped by the feds -- no sign of them on the
>> charge sheet, as I understand it.  Next the
>
>They never were.

not true.  go back and read the 'leaks' to the media following the initial
arrests - I suggest you try both the CNN web site and the NandO Net web
site...the initial accusations were that the group was going to to blow up
both federal and state buildings.  

>
>The indictment read:
>
>18 U.S.C. x 231 (Furnishing Instruction in the Use of Explosive Devices
>and Other Techniques in Furtherance of Civil Disorder) Count 2
>
>18 U.S.C. x 371 (Conspiracy To Unlawfully Make And Possess Unregistered
>Destructive Devices) Count 3
>
>18 U.S.C. x 922(o) (Unlawful Possession of Machine-guns) Counts 4-7
>
>> Next the 'hunter' who supposedly discovered these guys now 
>> turns out to have been some sort of state law enforcement officer,
>> a deputy U.S. marshal, and 'acting undercover as a biker'...what
>> ever that means....
>
>Where does this gem come from ??
>
>None of the reports that I've seen identifies the hunter as anything
other
>than "Joe Anybody" out on a hunting trip.

Jim, you've got to stop getting all of your current events information
>from  the NBC news people...really, it's embarassing...again, go back to
the two news sites I mentioned above and read ALL of the articles - the
information is *all* there for you, or anyone else willing to take the
time to read it. 



From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 13:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 23822 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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References: <836858114$11497@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 8 Jul 1996 20:19:11 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 0:33:26 GMT
Message-ID: <836872406$12265@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arizona Viper Militia
Lines: 9


In article <836858114$11497@atype.com>, jhistorian@aol.com (JHistorian)
writes:

>It wa *they* -- and not a bunch of loud-mouthed piss-willy Nazis -- who
>convinced Hindenburg to appoint Hitler.
>  

evidence please?


From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 15:44:04 PDT 1996
Article: 23832 of misc.activism.militia
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From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 9 Jul 1996 16:05:11 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 20:19:07 GMT
Message-ID: <836943547$16270@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected. colonel?
Lines: 33


In article <836929984$15432@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>In article <836872383$12249@atype.com>, AHABIZ  wrote:
>>
>>In article <836842684$10751@atype.com>,
mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>>(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:
>>
>>>I'm afraid that's not true.  When did you think that the militia was
not
>>>bound
>>>by law?
>>>
>>When did you think it was bound only by law?
>
>What -other- things it may or may not be bound by is not relevant. 
Please 
>answer the question.
>

ah, and here is the crux of our disagreement, for you see your
interpretation of the law as the fundamental factor in determining whether
the movement is right or wrong.  We, on the other hand, not only interpret
the law in a vastly different manner from you, but we do NOT consider the
law to be the sole factor in judging legitimacy (and yes I know the latin
root, but I'm using the term in it's modern sense). Tradition and moral
values also play key roles not only in our determination that our movement
is legitimate and just, but also in how we interpret the law.  So now it's
*your* turn to answer *my* question, mark - what makes you think that the
militia of the whole is bound *only* by law?



From ahabiz@aol.com Tue Jul  9 15:44:06 PDT 1996
Article: 23835 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <836927385$15365@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
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Return-Path: 
Posted-Date: 9 Jul 1996 16:04:33 -0400
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 20:18:24 GMT
Message-ID: <836943504$16238@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Info on Viper Here!! Just as expected..  -  momp1.txt [1/1]
Lines: 18


In article <836927385$15365@atype.com>, FrankR@uoknor.edu (Frank R)
writes:

>Yes, I know a few libertarians.  Most of them are not advocating violent
>overthrow of the government, however.  They are, like me, interested in
>slowing the erosion of liberties (hence the name libertarian) we are
>experiencing. 

We aren't advocating the violent overthrow of the government either,
Frank.  We're just willing to go a bit further in defending our liberties.
 Forget slowing the erosion, we intend to reverse it.  The reason that
we're losing our liberties so fast is that there is very little functional
difference between the democrats and the republicans.  Just think of us as
the activist wing of the LP.

Arlin Adams
[who among other things, happens to be a member of the Libertarian Party.]



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