[Thread from another network discussing Einsatzgruppen reports and their significance in the extermination program. The discussion begins with a denial opponent providing documentation regarding the Einsatzgruppen] The following several messages are from the Einsatzgruppen Reports. The number of the report and the date will be noted with each excerpt. The Einsatzgruppen reported on their activities to their respective headquarters which sent the information to Berlin. There the RSHA compiled concise reports in the name of the Chief of Sipo and the SD. Copies were distributed to high- ranking army, police and SS officers, diplomats, members of the foreign office an even to industrialists as they related to economic factors in the Soviet territories. The Einsatzgruppen Reports were discovered by the U.S.Army in Gestapo headquarters in Berlin after the war. They were initially impounded by a research analyst attached to the Berlin branch of the Office of the Chief of Council for War Crimes. They were sealed and transported in the custody of the US Army to Nuremberg. During the first days of the Einsatzgruppen Trial, the authenticity of the reports was established beyond doubt and none of the German defendants challenged their validity. After the trial, the original reports were sent to the National Archives in Washington, DC. In 1960 they were given to the Bundesarchiv in Koblenz. Photocopies of all the reports remain in the National Archives and at Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Operational Situation Report USSR No. 17 7.July.1941 According to instructions by RSHA, liquidations of government and party officials, in all named cities of Byelorussia, were carried out. Concerning the Jews, according to orders, the same policy was adopted. The exact number of the liquidated has not as yet been established. Operational Situation Report USSR No. 19 11.July.1941 In Kaunas, up to now a total of 7,800 Jews have been liquidated, partly through pogroms and partly through shooting by Lithuanian Kommandos. All of the corpses have been removed. Further mass shootings are no longer possible. Therefore, I summoned a Jewish committee and explained that up to now we had no reason to interfere with the internal arrangements between the Lithuanians and the Jews. Operational Situation Report USSR No. 106 7.October.1941 In agreement with the city military command, all the Jews of Kiev were ordered to appear at a certain place on Monday, 29 September, by 6 o'clock. This order was publicized by posters all over the town by members of the newly organized Ukrainian militia. At the same time, oral information was passed that all the Jews of Kiev would be moved to another place. In cooperations with the HQ of EGC and two Kommandos of the police regiment South, Sonderkommando 4a executed 33,771 Jews on September 29 and 30. [NOTE: This took place in the ravine of Babi Yar outside of Kiev.] Operational Situation Report USSR No. 111 12.October.1941 These were the reasons for the executions carried out by the Kommandos: political officials; plundereres and saboteurs; active Communists and political representatives; Jews who gained their release from prison camps by false statements; agents and informers of the NKVD; persons who by false depositions and witness influencing were instrumental in the deportation of ethnic Germans; Jewish sadism and revenge; undesirable elements; partisans; politruks; danger of plague and epidemics; members of Russian bands; armed insurgents; supplying Russian bands; rebels and agitators; drifting juveniles; JEWS IN GENERAL. [emphasis mine] Operational Situation Report USSR No. 117 18.October.1941 The districts occupied by the Kommandos were cleansed of Jews. 4,091 Jews and 46 Communists were executed during the time span covered by the report, bringing the total to 40,699 [for the period of 1-15 October 1941 by Einsatzgruppen D]. Operational Situation Report USSR No. 126 27.October.1941 The difficulties in carrying out such a large action - first of all with respect to sowing disunity - were overcome in Kiev by a call via posters to the Jewish population that they were to move. Although at the start, one could count on the participation of about 5,000- 6,000 Jews, more than 30,000 Jews turned up who, due to extraordinarily skillful organization, believed in the transfer right up to the moment of their execution. Thus, even if about 75,000 Jews had been liquidated so far, it has already become clear that a solution of the Jewish question will not be possible in this way. True, we have succeeded in bringing about a total solution to the Jewish problem, particularly in smaller towns and also in the villages. However, in bigger towns it was observed that all the Jews have disappeared after such an execution. Operational Situation Report USSR No. 173 25.February.1941 In the course of a routine Security Police screening of an additional part of the civilian population around Leningrad, 140 more people had to be shot. The reasons for this were as follows: a) Active participation in the Communist Party before the arrival of the German troops; b) Seditious and provocative activity since the arrival of the German Army; c) Partisan activity; d) Espionage; e) Belonging to the Jewish race. So, from the Einsatzgruppen Reports we learn that Jews were being executed for no reason other than being Jewish, that these reports were being transmitted to Berlin and that these executions continued. From this we can conclude that Berlin did indeed order these executions. After all, Report 17 states that the executions were ordered and, if this was false, it is reasonable to expect that that misconception would be corrected quickly. However, almost 8 months later executions are still taking place because individuals belong to the "Jewish race." In Report 126 we learn that these executions are considered part of the Final Solution. This not only supports the conclusion that the Einsatzgruppen were performing these executions based upon orders but also that this was just a part of a bigger program to solve the "Jewish question." From this, even though a small fraction of the evidence has been presented, to conclude anything other than the fact that there was an extermination program against the Jews would defy Occam's Razor. [The Holocaust denier responds with the following remarks] However, you mention reports. Let's talk about some of the reports you have omitted reproducing. How about no. 127, from 31.Oct..1941, which states: "In this area the Security Police has come up against two major groups of adversaries. They are: 1) the Jews, 2) those once active in the former Soviet regime ... In this regard it should be pointed out that in the Ukraine, those who sympathized with the Soviets were prodominantly Jews ... It can now be stated without reservation that the Jews were, without exception, supporters of Bolshevism. "Over and over again, particularly in the cities, the Jews are cited as the real Soviet rulers who exploited the people with indescribable brutality and delivered them to their deaths at the hands of the NKVD. The (German Security Police) units have carried out approximately 10,000 interrogations during the past four months. Again and again, the Jews were cited as having worked actively for the Soviets, if not in responsible positions then at least as agents, collaborators or informers. Not a single Jewsh corpse had been found in any of the numerous mass graves. In any case, it is evident that the Jews share the greatest guilt with others for the slaughter of the Ukrainian people and the ethnic Germans. "For this reason, special measures against the Jews are considered necessary by the Security Police." --- You might have mentioned the reports of 24.July.1941 and 5.Aug.1941, which refer to the establishment of Jewish health centers in the newly-created Jewish ghettos to prevent the outbreak of diseases. --- You might have mentioned the report of 12.Sept.1941 (no. 81), which shows how relieved the Einsatzgruppen was to find large numbers of Jews gone upon entering areas previously under Soviet control. "During the first weeks considerable numbers of Jews fell under our control, whereas in the central and eastern Ukrainian districts it has been observed that in many cases 70 to 90 percent, and sometimes 100 percent, of the Jewish population has fled. This can be seen as an indirect result of the work of the Einsatzgruppen, since the removal at no cost of hundreds of thousands of Jews --- most of them reportedly to beyond the Urals --- represents a considerable contribution to the solution of the Jewish question in Europe." --- When you made reference to the "Final Solution," you might have reminded everyone that this did not mean extermination. This was pointed up in report 63, 25.Aug.1941: "Slowly but surely, one of the most important problems, the SOLUTION OF THE JEWISH QUESTION, is being tackled. In Kishiven, there were approximately 60- 80 thousand Jews before the war. Most of them were deported with the withdrawal of the Russians. When the city was captured, there were only about 4,000 Jews present, but that number has since increased. Upon the initiative of the Einsatzkomando the Rumanian city commander established a Jewish ghetto in the old city which currently contains about 9,000 Jews. The Jews are being organized into work groups and assigned to various German and Rumanian units for clean-up work and other kinds of labor." --- On the topic of the casualty figures, you forgot to mention that historians Reitlinger, Hilberg, Shirer, Paget, Maser, Bauer, Cargas, Krausnick, and Wilhelm acknowledge that these figures bear little resemblance to reality. For that matter, the testimony of Einsatzgruppen defendants Blobel and Nosske bear this out. Even Ohlendorf, who squealed like a stuck pig about high casualties in an effort to get himself off, changed his tune when he saw he was not immune from prosecution. --- As to your opinion that Hitler must have had some hand in this, even Hilberg no longer believes that. To quote Mayer: "Apparently, neither Heybrich, Hitler, nor Himmler ever issued a written command to liquidate these noncombatants." --- Finally, to your statement that none of the Einsatzgruppen defendants challenged the authenticity of the documents, I can only say that all the war crimes trials were kangaroo courts, and they must have adopted the position they thought best at the time. However, Mayer has recently interpreted and then eliminated one by one all of the documents or arguments which up until now have been used to make people believe that the Germans practiced a policy of exterminating the Jews (the Goering-to Heydrich letter of 31.July.1941, the Wannsee Conference transcript, the conduct of the Einsatzgruppen in Russia, Himmler's speeches at Posen in October, 1943, etc.). And if that is not enough, Hilberg acknowledges that the Einsatzgrupen did not kill Jews without a security reason (1985 edition). --- Perhaps most importantly, however, you neglected to mention that the Germans were fighting a guerrilla war in that area, which was started by Stalin's order of 3.July.1941. Under the circumstances, the Germans performed admirably. [this is the reply to the above] Here is the primary source upon which I based those comments. This comes from a Wehrmacht report on the extermination of the Jews in the Ukraine. It is dated 2.December.1941 and was sent from the Inspector, Armament in the Ukraine to Berlin. It is document: PS-3257. "From the outset the attitude of the Jewish population was anxious-willing. They tried to avoid anything that might displease the German Administration. That they hated the German Administration and the Army in their hearts is obvious and not surprising. However, there is no evidence that the Jews, either as a body, or even in any considerable numbers, have taken part in sabotage, etc. Without doubt there have been some terrorists or saboteurs among them, just as there have been among the Ukrainians. But it cannot be claimed that the Jews as such present any kind of danger for the German Wehrmacht." And, what about the mention in Einsatzgruppen Report 127 that the Jews had brutalized the local population under the Soviets? Is this true? Let's take a look at a report from SS Sturmbannfuehrer Magill of the 2nd SS- Cavalry Regiment dated 12.August.1941. "It was also conspicuous that in general the population was on good terms with the Jewish sector of the population. Nevertheless they helped energetically in rounding up the Jews. The locally recruited guards, who consisted in part of Polish police and former Polish soldiers, made a good impression."
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