Archive/File: orgs/american/codoh/usenet.response museum

From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!ukma!mont!golf!usenet Sun Mar  6 15:10:21 PST 1994
Article: 1709 of alt.illuminati
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From: c632930@muphnx9 (David Perera)
Newsgroups: alt.illuminati
Subject: Holocaust
Date: 6 Mar 1994 19:05:31 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia
Lines: 59
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <2ld9i9$ivh@golf.ustores.missouri.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.206.115.19
Keywords: Historical Fact


It's hard to believe that someone is actuallly disputing the existance of  
the gas chambers in concentration camps. ("YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE  
FACTS", posted by Dan Gannon on alt.illuminati) The Holocaust's existance  
is an established historical fact; the arguements brought up against it  
are weak and pitiful. However such a posting deserves retrobution:

Point 1. of the posting states "The notion that eyewitness testimony,  
given under highly politicized and emotional circumstances is PRIMA FACIE  
true, was refuted by the Israeli Supreme Court when it acquitted John  
Demjanjuk of being "Ivan the Terrible."
Eyewitness testimony was found to be unture in the case of one man, John  
Demjanjuk. Forty years of aging and forgetfullness makes it hard to  
identitify ONE man; however Holocaust suvivor's testimony as a whole  
concerning their experiences was NOT invilidated. Too many survivors have  
told corboratting tales (Primo Levi, Ellie Wiesel for instance) under  
different circumstances at different times for their testimony to be  
inviladated. Their testimony of gassing chambers and torture is further  
supported further by the physical sites of Auschwitz, Dachau, etc.

Point 2 states that NOT debating the holocaust is anti-intellectual. Do we  
debate the existance of World War II? Does anyone doubt that the Hundred  
Years War occured in France? Or that the Roman Emprie existed? It is  
useless to debate an established fact. Gannon is very selective in what he  
chooses to doubt and debate..if he wants to debate historical accuracy let  
him choose an unproven historical incident.

Point 3 is about the Holocaust Memorial Museum's display. He says that the  
photos displayed offer no evidence that they were really Jews. Well, think  
about this. It is an established fact that Nazi Germany was anti-semite  
(read Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler is you doubt THIS). It is an established  
fact that Jews were rounded up from their homes and ghettos and  
transported to selected places in Europe, including Auschwitz. It is an  
established fact that the Jewish population of Europe declined  
signficantly between the 1930's and 1945. Then, at Auschwitz we see photos   
burning corpses--coincidence?  
The posting also states that not one body was found to have died of gas.  
review your holocaust history--the dead bodies of gassed Jews were burned  
in the cremation ovens of concentration camps. 

The last paragraph asks for donations. There is no chance in hell that I  
would give one penny to that cause. 
	
	
	David Perera













 


From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!sun!oucsace!dspiegel Sun Mar  6 15:15:49 PST 1994
Article: 8529 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!sun!oucsace!dspiegel
From: dspiegel@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Dan Spiegel)
Subject: Re: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!"
Message-ID: 
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens
References: <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 16:15:07 GMT
Lines: 67

In article <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> dgannon@Nazi-boy.banished.com 
writes:
>
>
>You have a right to know the facts!
>
>
>     A REVISIONIST CHALLENGE TO THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM
       ^
  weak as always
>
>                          By Bradley R. Smith
>
>
>
>     This ad does not claim "the Holocaust never happened."  Those who say
>it does want to muddy the issue.  This is what the ad does claim:  The U.S.
>Holocaust Memorial Museum displays no proof whatever of homicidal gassing
>chambers, and no proof that even one individual was "gassed" in a German
>program of "genocide."

   Did it ever occur to Brad Smith or you, "Nazi-Boy" Gannon, that it is
not the intention of the Holocaust museum to prove anything? See, out here
in the real, non-deluded world, the holocaust is indisputable fact. The
vast majority accept that it is fact.
   To start with the assumption that the museum needs to prove something 
or exists in order to prove something is fallacious. Any conclusion 
Smith, "Nazi-Boy" Gannon, or anyone else draws from that assumption it 
not logically based in any way. 

   Wait, here comes a great example of a logical step.....
>
>     The question, then, is not, "Did the Holocaust happen?"  The question
>is:  If there were no gas chambers, WHAT WAS THE HOLOCAUST?

   Great logical step fellows. Let's review:
Premise:	An entity whose intention is not to prove anything doesn't
		contain proof to our satisfaction
Conclusion:	The proof doesn't exist

Let's present an example that even the "great revisionist scholar" Smith 
can understand. Suppose you don't believe the My Lai massacre occurred. 
Then, by Smith's reasoning, it can be concluded that the My Lai massacre 
did not occur since the Vietnam war memorial does not specifically prove 
that it did.  C'mon "scholars". Even you can see that your arguments here 
are more idiotic than usual. 

   People only display their delusional nature by assuming that an entity
for the purpose of memorializing widely accepted history would in any way 
take into account the fact that a few fringe lunatics, for reasons of
ignorance, bigotry or to impress the people they parrot would deny history. 
To build the "Holocaust Memorial Museum to prove the Shoah occurred to the
satisfaction of Brad "I speak" Smith and Dan "and my lips move" Gannon" 
would be a waste of time, right, fellows? Ego-check time, eh, Nazi-boys?

>
>
>
>-Dan Gannon
>
>


-DS
I speak for myself only.
No unsolicited e-mail, please. I'll read your flames with everyone else.
Please do not use my name in any subject headers.


From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley Sun Mar  6 15:16:08 PST 1994
Article: 8535 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley
From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth J. Bradley)
Subject: Re: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!"
Message-ID: <1994Mar6.211410.23425@scic.intel.com>
Sender: news@scic.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corporation
References: <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 21:14:10 GMT
Lines: 52

In article <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> dgannon@banished.com writes:
>     Yet not even Winston Churchill in his six-volume history of World War
>Two, or Dwight D. Eisenhower in his memoirs, made reference to homicidal
>gassing chambers.  How do the Holocaust Lobby and its Museum explain that?

How can anyone explain how Gannon can keep posting this lie, even though
its been refuted dozens of times?


Churchill, in a letter to Foreign Secretary Eden, regarding the killing of 
Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz (from Churchill's book about WW2):

 ---------------------------------------------------------------
  There is no doubt that this is probably the greatest and
  most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the
  world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally
  civilized men in the name of a great State and one of the leading
  races of Europe. 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpted from Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe":

 ----------------------------------------------------------------
    "The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp.  It was
  near the town of Gotha.  I have never felt able to describe my
  emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable
  evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of
  decency.  Up to that time I had known about it only generally or
  through secondary sources.  I am certain, however that I have never
  at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.

    I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my
  duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about
  these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or
  assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just
  propaganda.'  Some members of the visiting party were unable to
  through the ordeal.  I not only did so but as soon as I returned to
  Patton's headquarters that evening I sent communications to both
  Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly
  to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative
  groups from the national legislatures.  I felt that the evidence
  should be immediately placed before the American and British publics
  in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt."
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SSD-CT
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien


From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!princeton!faust!roger Sun Mar  6 15:19:51 PST 1994
Article: 23875 of soc.history
Newsgroups: soc.history
Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!princeton!faust!roger
From: roger@faust.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: LOCKED OUT OF THIS NEWSGROUP!!  TAKE NOTE!!
Message-ID: <1994Mar4.214410.1740@Princeton.EDU>
Originator: news@nimaster
Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: faust.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
References: <9403031701.A6607wk@banished.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 21:44:10 GMT
Lines: 195

In article <9403031701.A6607wk@banished.com> dgannon@banished.com writes:

>Locked out of this newsgroup!!  Take note!!
>*******************************************

>     Administrators at Netcom have told me I cannot post any more messages
>about Holocaust Revisionism to this newsgroup.  They have given me a list of
>the ONLY newsgroups they will allow me to post to in the future.  I have no
>choice but to comply.  Fortunately, they are allowing me this one last
>message.

So you decided to include as many lies in it as possible.

>     Ken McVay and other "Holocaust activists" have been conducting a public
>campaign to encourage people to complain to Netcom about my posts, in a
>desperate attempt to censor me.  As a result, Netcom received numerous
>complaints.

And why not?  Your postings were rude, often slanderous, and far too many
in number.  You repeatedly post the same texts, without any comment, and
without taking into account the clear and incontrovertible refutations of 
their content that have been posted.

At the same time, you have prattled on about wanting open debate, but 
run from such debate whenever it is offered.  You post pseudoscientific
junk, and offer nothing but nonsense when it is rebutted.

>     There is a lobby which opposes any critical examination or questioning
>of the "Holocaust story" or of Israeli policy.  

I challenge you to name one such person, let alone a "lobby."  

Moreover, I challenge you to present one of *your* postings that 
constitutes "critical examination."  Your postings tend to do the 
opposite.

As for Israeli policy, what does that have to do with the matter?

>Complaints from them are to
>be expected, especially when they think they have something to gain by
>complaining.  

Peace and quiet, and newsgroups undisturbed by recycled garbage.

>After they heard that complaints to Netcom were getting them
>somewhere, it greatly encouraged them and they began a public campaign to
>send complaints to Netcom about my posts.  They boasted of their previous
>"successes", encouraging the sending of ever more complaints.

And do you suppose that Netcom didn't consider the matter on its merits?

>     Numerous untrue complaints were sent.  For example:  I have never
>posted to  or certain  groups that I have been accused of
>posting to.  Vulgar forgeries have also been repeatedly posted in my name.
>The campaign of vicious slander against me (both public and private) has
>been constant and most deliberate.

But none of it has compared to your own campaign to defame yourself in 
the eyes of decent people.

>     Highly controversial issues are always like this, especially when

What's highly controversial?  You'v never presented a single piece of 
evidence that, when examined, would call into question the basic facts
of the Holocaust.  And your track record with what you *have* presented
is so pathetic that it would be hard to believe you if you *did* stumble 
across a fact one day.

>ENORMOUS sums of money are involved (the billions of dollars per year Israel
>receives from U.S. taxpayers, for example).  

Another lie.  The support of Israel is unconnected to the particulars
of the Holocaust.

>That money alone creates
>TREMENDOUS pressure and a VERY powerful lobby, as you can imagine.  Not to
>mention the incomparable power of the Jewish-controlled mass media.  (For

Still more lies.  
>proof of the Jewish control of the mass media, see Banished CPU's FTP Mail
>Server!)

Which contains some of Dan's most disgusting nonsense.  "Jewish-controlled"
would seem to mean that Jews work there in some capacity.

>     As a Libertarian economics professor of mine once explained, such
>"entitlement programs" are ALWAYS abused and inevitably create
>uncontrollable corruption.

Um, since when are the mass media an entitlement program?  Also, could
you show me how all entitlement programs are uncontrollably corrupt?
I can think of dozens that are not.

>     In fact, the Israeli lobby (a.k.a. the Holocaust lobby) has long been
>the MOST FEARED LOBBY ON CAPITOL HILL, and their PACs (Political Action
>Committees) spend more money per year bribing American politicians than ANY
>OTHER LOBBY, including the AMERICAN labor unions!  The Israeli lobby is not
>even an American lobby.

>     A book by ex-Congressman Paul Findley entitled _They Dare to Speak Out_
>documents all this very well, and from numerous primary sources.  So does
>_Stealth PACs_ by Richard H. Curtiss.  Both books are available from
>American Educational Trust:  1-800-368-5788 toll-free.  (If you call, ask
>for a free sample copy of _The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs_.)

Speaking of unbiased sources...

>The American Educational Trust and _The Washington Report_ was founded by
>and is run by veterans of the U.S. military, U.S. intelligence agencies and
>U.S. political offices.

All of whom have an abiding, unconditional hatred for Israel.

>Following are the ONLY newsgroups Netcom says I am still allowed to post to:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>alt.revisionism
>talk.politics.misc
>soc.culture.german
>soc.culture.jewish

We'd appreciate it if you stayed out of these two, also.  Unless your 
only purposes is to offend, your hateful postings have no business there.

>soc.rights.human
>alt.discrimination
>alt.conspiracy
>alt.illuminati
>alt.individualism
>alt.mindcontrol
>alt.politics.correct
>alt.politics.reform
>alt.censorship

>Newsgroups I am NOT allowed to post to any longer INCLUDE the following:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>soc.history
>soc.history.moderated
>talk.politics.mideast
>alt.activism
>alt.society.civil-liberties
>alt.society.civil-liberty
>sci.skeptic
>soc.culture.europe
>soc.culture.austria
>soc.culture.polish
>soc.culture.soviet
>soc.culture.usa
>soc.politics
>soc.veterans
>soc.answers
>alt.society.civil-disob
>alt.society.revolution
>alt.society.etrnl.vigilanc
>alt.politics.usa.misc
>alt.politics.libertarian
>alt.politics.reform
>alt.politics.media
>alt.cabal
>alt.journalism.criticism
>alt.extropians.forbidden.topics
>alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum      [Note:  I am NOT a Nazi!!!]

Something that would be hard to convince us of.  

You speak warmly of Nazism, and of Nazis.  You post the writings of 
Nazisd like Zundel and Weber.  You refuse to distance yourself from
the policies and lies of Nazism, and willingly repeat them.  And
your entire enterprise is devoted to whitewashing, covering up,
and denying the most ghastlydeeds of Nazism.

>alt.society.resistance
>--- And EVERY OTHER NEWSGROUP as well! ---

Well, considering that most of us would have to post three times
as much as we normally do FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES to match your
*annual* posting volume, it's not as though you didn't get a chance.

You blew it.

>     I just wanted to let everyone know a little about what's going on here,
>and how you can obtain more information if you are interested.  If you would
>like to protest or comment about this situation to Netcom, send mail to:
>support@netcom.com

>Thanks, and goodbye (for now anyway),

>-Dan Gannon
>"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2 + 2 = 4.  Once that is granted, all
>else follows."  --George Orwell, _1984_

Too bad your Orwellian Big Lies got you into so much trouble.  Some of
us told Netcom what you added up to.  

Roger Lustig



From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au!laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au!maddison Sun Mar  6 17:48:50 PST 1994
Article: 54789 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au!laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au!maddison
From: maddison@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (David Maddison)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: OPEN LETTER TO EDITORS OF BRANDEIS "JUSTICE"
Date: 28 Feb 1994 11:29:50 GMT
Organization: Macquarie University, Sydney Australia
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <2kskjf$m3u@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au>
References: <9402261450.A3823wk@banished.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au

In article <9402261450.A3823wk@banished.com> dgannon@banished.com writes:

[More Gannon Garbage deleted.]

1) Gannon, you are a moron.
2) You post the same things over and over again.
3) You do not understand how historical research works.
4) You quote from non-academic, non-peer-reviewed "journals".
5) You do not understand the concept of "sources" in historical research.
6) You post lies.
7) The way to prove that the Holocaust occurred is to examine the historical
     record.
8) You would not know a fact if you saw one.
9) True or false? 1 + 1 = 3 Quick, now Gannon.
10) You are truly a pathetic individual.
11) Judaism teaches that even in the most evil individuals, there is some
     spark of goodness, of life. Maybe you could try and discover what your
     spark of life is Gannon and stop your ridiculous postings.

David Maddison
Cybernomad.






From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ai292 Sun Mar  6 21:38:26 PST 1994
Article: 8550 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ai292
From: ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee)
Subject: Re: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!"
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca
Reply-To: ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com>  
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 02:51:49 GMT
Lines: 46



In a previous article, dgannon@banished.com () says:

>
>
>You have a right to know the facts!
>
>
>     A REVISIONIST CHALLENGE TO THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM
>
>                          By Bradley R. Smith
>
>
>
[long lines of rubbish deleted]

Dan, you never stop posting this rubbish, do you?  Back to the old trick
of trying to deflect the debate from its real direction.  Let's assume
that the article is right, although it is not.  There were no gas
chambers.  What does that prove?  Does it prove the extermination of the
Jews was not attempted by the Nazis?  Of course not.  You haven't
forgotten the Einsatzgruppen, have you?  They killed about 2 million Jews
all by themselves.  You haven't forgotten the Wannsee conference, the
testimony of Ohlendorf at Nuremberg, and so on?

But the fact of the matter is that gas chambers were used.  I don't care
what is in the Holocaust museum.  If every artifact there is phoney, that
still doesn't matter a hill of beans.  The proof of the use of gas
chambers comes from the *Germans*, from the people who made them, supplied
them, operated them and sold them.  It comes from the victims, a precious
few who survived.  It comes from documents produced by the Germans during
the war.  And it comes from their admissions after the war.

How do you explain this?  You can't, so you indulge in your well-worn
tactic of confusing the issue.  It won't work, Dan.  Everyone is on to you.

Even Hermann abandoned you.

You continue to demonstrate that you are a little Nazi puppet, and a
rather stupid one at that.

-- 
Gordon McFee ai292

I'll write no line before its time!


Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,alt.illuminati,alt.individualism,alt.politics.correct
Subject: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!" - But Smith won't provide them
Summary: 
Expires: 
References: <9403060309.A8997wk@banished.com> <9403060324.A9003wk@banished.com> <9403060309.A8996wk@banished.com> <9403060324.A9001wk@banished.com> <9403060325.A9002wk@banished.com> <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com>
Sender: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Distribution: world
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Keywords: 

In article <9403060309.A8997wk@banished.com>, and ten others, Dan
   Gannon, Hitler-Cleanser, and owner-operator of Portland's shame,
   offers once again Bradley Smith's tired propaganda:

>You have a right to know the facts!

   And Mr.  Gannon, as he has demonstrated for two years, feels
   he has a right to ignore them completely. In fact he must, in order
   to digest the crap he shovels out with such dispatch.

>     A REVISIONIST CHALLENGE TO THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM
 
>                          By Bradley R. Smith
 
>     This ad does not claim "the Holocaust never happened."  Those who say
>it does want to muddy the issue.  This is what the ad does claim:  The U.S.
>Holocaust Memorial Museum displays no proof whatever of homicidal gassing
>chambers, and no proof that even one individual was "gassed" in a German
>program of "genocide."

   Ignoring the obvious, of course, which is this: the museum has no
   obligation to "prove" the gassing of Holocaust victims; this fact -
   repeat, for the reality-challenged (That's you, Nazi-Boy) - _fact_
   is beyond dispute. It offers encyclopaedias about Mr. Smith's
   approach to the Holocaust, and to the promulgation of the _big
   _ lie.

   It also offers typical proof of Mr. Smith's utter disregard for the
   targets of his continuing attack upon the Jews. He is, patently,
   catering to the simple-minded and brain-deficient specimens, much
   like our Mr. Gannon. Anyone blessed with a mind that works isn't
   going to be suckered that easily - I offer Mr. Gannon to establish
   my thesis.

   The Louve does not have to 'prove' that Michelangelo existed.
   NASA does not have to 'prove' that the moon exists.
   Elvis is dead.

   Some things, Nazi-Boy, are beyond dispute.  One such is the gassing
   of victims during the Holocaust.  Get used to it.

>     The question, then, is not, "Did the Holocaust happen?"  The question
>is:  If there were no gas chambers, WHAT WAS THE HOLOCAUST?

   Sorry, Mr.  Smith, but you have failed to demonstrate gassing
   did not occur; the question is moot.  The Holocaust, by the way,
   was the deliberate and calculated extermination of roughly eleven
   to twelve _million_ victims, many of whom were Jews, and many of
   whom met their ends in homicidal gas chambers. Say and do what you
   will, twist and obfuscate to serve your end, but don't presume to
   offer such lame attempts at "historical logic" (for wont of a
   better phrase) to your readers here on the net. 

>     This Museum promotes the charge that the Germans murdered the Jews of
>Europe in homicidal gassing chambers.  It therefore has a MORAL OBLIGATION
>to demonstrate that the charge is true.  Those who contend it is more
>important to be sensitive than truthful about whether the gas chambers truly
>existed are enemies of intellectual freedom and of the university itself.

   The museum promotes remembrance, Brad.  And it works.  Get used to
   _that_, too. Millions upon millions will learn from the museum, and
   take the truth home with them. That must gall you some.

>WHAT ARE THE FACTS?

>     The Museum's "proof" for a gas chamber at Birkenau is a plastic model
>created by a Polish ARTISTE.  A plastic copy of a metal door is displayed as
>"proof" of a homicidal gas chamber at Maidanek.  And, incredibly, the Museum
>has simply dropped the Auschwitz gas chamber, the basement room visited
>yearly by hundreds of thousands of tourists in Poland.

   This is a museum, not a courtroom. The jury in this case decided
   the issue long ago, and neither you nor your Nazi associates will
   reverse their findings.

>     There is no mention of the alleged gas chambers at Buchenwald or even
>at Dachau, where after World War II American G.I.s and German civilians were
>assured that more than 200,000 victims were "gassed and burned."

   There is no mention of my bassett hound Buddy, either, but I assure
   you he exists.

>     The notion that eyewitness testimony, given under highly politicized
>and emotional circumstances, is PRIMA FACIE true, was refuted by the Israeli
>Supreme Court when it acquitted John Demjanjuk of being "Ivan the Terrible."
>The Israeli Court found that the eyewitnesses who testified against
>Demjanjuk could not be believed!

   Nonsense, Mr. Smith. The ISC established that insufficient evidence
   existed to sustain Demjanuk's identification as Ivan the Terrible.
   Nothing less, and a great deal more. (Those interested in learing
   more about Demjanjuk's trial may send the command INDEX DEMJANJUK
   to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca. Add the command HELP GET for
   retrieval assistance.)

>     Deborah Lipstadt argues in her much-praised _Denying the Holocaust_,
>that revisionists ["deniers"] should not be debated because there can not be
>another side to the gas chamber stories.  She charges that it is hateful to
>demand proof that the weapon allegedly used to commit horrendous acts of
>mass murder actually existed!  She argues -- in this one instance only --
>that we betray America's old civil virtues of free inquiry and open debate.
>For the benefit of whom?

   Adolf Hitler, perhaps. Cleansing his reputation, and that of the
   Nazis, has been a high priority among deniers for long years. You
   know the truth, Mr. Smith - your literature condemns you.

>     I'm not in disagreement with Ms. Lipstadt and her CLIQUE on the gas
>chamber controversy because they may be Zionists or Jews.  That's
>disingenuous.  I'm in disagreement with her over the fact that she argues
>against "light of day," our understanding that in a free society ALL ideas
>are best illuminated in the "light" of open debate.

   Remember Dershowitz? He agreed to debate with you, providing
   Elvis-is-dead and the-earth-is-flat were debated at the same time.
   (Add the command GET HOLOCAUST DERSHOWITZ for the full story.. it's
   worth a read...)
   
>     The Museum is so confident no one will challenge its gas-chamber
>gimcrackery that it even claims to have found a new "death camp" gas
>chamber.  Proof?  The uncorroborated story of one man with the usual overlay
>of sado-masochistic fantasy.  THE MUSEUM'S HISTORIAN DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE
>THE PLACE WAS!  It "may have been" near Giessen.  "May have been?"  That's
>the best historical writing $200 million can buy?

   As any competent historian will tell you, Mr. Smith, the
   documentation for the Holocaust is so extensive that it will
   probably require many more decades to sort it out. The prosecution
   team at Nuremberg was literally swamped with captured documents -
   including Frank's entire journal, for instance, and didn't begin to
   make a dent it what was available.

   So great is the mass of this material that scholars may study it
   for centuries, let alone decades. Real research, unlike the variety
   you and your associates are familiar with, involves tedious
   attention to reams of details.. obscure documentation in even more
   obscure archives, new material from the Eastern block which was
   never available before, etc. It shouldn't surprise anyone that it
   is difficult to determine all the facts overnight, or even in fifty
   or sixty short years.

>     When I challenge such gas-chamber vaporings I understand I'm going to
>be slandered as an antisemite by the True Believers in the Holocaust Lobby.
>These quasi-religious Holocaust zealots claim that because of the purity of
>their own feelings about the Jewish experience during World War Two, mine
>must be soiled when I express doubt in what they preach as "truth."

   The truth speaks volumes, Mr. Smith.

>     Yet not even Winston Churchill in his six-volume history of World War
>Two, or Dwight D. Eisenhower in his memoirs, made reference to homicidal
>gassing chambers.  How do the Holocaust Lobby and its Museum explain that?

   The same way Dr. Keren has explained it, Mr. Smith. You are lying.
   Mr. Gannon has often repeated the same lie, and it is well
   documented... sending GET HOLOCUAST/B-CPU LIE.04 to my server will
   demonstrate this beyond question. Period.

[snip]

>THE OPERATION AND TECHNIQUE OF THE MUSEUM

>     The Museum's exhibit technique is a mixture of sinister suggestion and
>dishonest omission.  The first display confronting visitors beginning the
>Museum tour is a wall-sized photograph of American soldiers looking at
>corpses smoldering on a pyre.  The "context" in which you see the photo
>suggests that the dead pictured in it are murdered Jews.

   It is interesting that you somehow think you've scored a point here
   - does it really matter who the victims were? Perhaps they were
   Jewish, perhaps they were not. They were Holocaust.

>     But were the prisoners killed or did they die of typhus or some other
>disease during the last terrible weeks of the war?  Autopsies made by Allied
>medical personnel found that inmates died of disease.  Not one was found to
>have been "gassed."  ALL SUCH RELEVANT INFORMATION IS PURPOSELY OMITTED FROM
>THIS EXHIBIT.  WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THE DEAD PICTURED IN THE PHOTO ARE
>JEWS!

   Such ranting! Gannon and his upper-case dementia surfaces once
   again... The documentation, and the eyewitness testimony, is quite
   clear - those who were gassed were either immediately cremated in
   the ovens, or burned in massive pyres. Those who had been buried in
   mass graves early on were later dug up by Sonderkommandos and
   burned. All these things are known, all documented beyond dispute.
   You are  kidding no-one here.

>     Unable to judge the significance of the photograph, and not wanting to
>believe the Museum would mislead you, you are moved to accept the false and
>manipulative suggestion that it somehow represents the "genocide" of the
>European Jews.

   You see, Mr. Smith, that's just another case where you are wrong. I
   would feel the misery, and the sadness, and the horror of the
   Holocaust. I am already more than familiar with the reality of the
   Nazi genocide.

   Followups to alt.revisionism, where this article has been shot down
   more than once in the past few months, and where Gannon will no
   doubt ignore all such rebuttals - he is, after all, a coward, with
   no stomach or ability to deal with reality.

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