Archive/File: orgs/american/codoh/usenet.response museum From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!ukma!mont!golf!usenet Sun Mar 6 15:10:21 PST 1994 Article: 1709 of alt.illuminati Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!ukma!mont!golf!usenet From: c632930@muphnx9 (David Perera) Newsgroups: alt.illuminati Subject: Holocaust Date: 6 Mar 1994 19:05:31 GMT Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Lines: 59 Distribution: World Message-ID: <email@example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 126.96.36.199 Keywords: Historical Fact It's hard to believe that someone is actuallly disputing the existance of the gas chambers in concentration camps. ("YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS", posted by Dan Gannon on alt.illuminati) The Holocaust's existance is an established historical fact; the arguements brought up against it are weak and pitiful. However such a posting deserves retrobution: Point 1. of the posting states "The notion that eyewitness testimony, given under highly politicized and emotional circumstances is PRIMA FACIE true, was refuted by the Israeli Supreme Court when it acquitted John Demjanjuk of being "Ivan the Terrible." Eyewitness testimony was found to be unture in the case of one man, John Demjanjuk. Forty years of aging and forgetfullness makes it hard to identitify ONE man; however Holocaust suvivor's testimony as a whole concerning their experiences was NOT invilidated. Too many survivors have told corboratting tales (Primo Levi, Ellie Wiesel for instance) under different circumstances at different times for their testimony to be inviladated. Their testimony of gassing chambers and torture is further supported further by the physical sites of Auschwitz, Dachau, etc. Point 2 states that NOT debating the holocaust is anti-intellectual. Do we debate the existance of World War II? Does anyone doubt that the Hundred Years War occured in France? Or that the Roman Emprie existed? It is useless to debate an established fact. Gannon is very selective in what he chooses to doubt and debate..if he wants to debate historical accuracy let him choose an unproven historical incident. Point 3 is about the Holocaust Memorial Museum's display. He says that the photos displayed offer no evidence that they were really Jews. Well, think about this. It is an established fact that Nazi Germany was anti-semite (read Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler is you doubt THIS). It is an established fact that Jews were rounded up from their homes and ghettos and transported to selected places in Europe, including Auschwitz. It is an established fact that the Jewish population of Europe declined signficantly between the 1930's and 1945. Then, at Auschwitz we see photos burning corpses--coincidence? The posting also states that not one body was found to have died of gas. review your holocaust history--the dead bodies of gassed Jews were burned in the cremation ovens of concentration camps. The last paragraph asks for donations. There is no chance in hell that I would give one penny to that cause. David Perera From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!sun!oucsace!dspiegel Sun Mar 6 15:15:49 PST 1994 Article: 8529 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!sun!oucsace!dspiegel From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Dan Spiegel) Subject: Re: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!" Message-ID:
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens References: <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 16:15:07 GMT Lines: 67 In article <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> dgannon@Nazi-boy.banished.com writes: > > >You have a right to know the facts! > > > A REVISIONIST CHALLENGE TO THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM ^ weak as always > > By Bradley R. Smith > > > > This ad does not claim "the Holocaust never happened." Those who say >it does want to muddy the issue. This is what the ad does claim: The U.S. >Holocaust Memorial Museum displays no proof whatever of homicidal gassing >chambers, and no proof that even one individual was "gassed" in a German >program of "genocide." Did it ever occur to Brad Smith or you, "Nazi-Boy" Gannon, that it is not the intention of the Holocaust museum to prove anything? See, out here in the real, non-deluded world, the holocaust is indisputable fact. The vast majority accept that it is fact. To start with the assumption that the museum needs to prove something or exists in order to prove something is fallacious. Any conclusion Smith, "Nazi-Boy" Gannon, or anyone else draws from that assumption it not logically based in any way. Wait, here comes a great example of a logical step..... > > The question, then, is not, "Did the Holocaust happen?" The question >is: If there were no gas chambers, WHAT WAS THE HOLOCAUST? Great logical step fellows. Let's review: Premise: An entity whose intention is not to prove anything doesn't contain proof to our satisfaction Conclusion: The proof doesn't exist Let's present an example that even the "great revisionist scholar" Smith can understand. Suppose you don't believe the My Lai massacre occurred. Then, by Smith's reasoning, it can be concluded that the My Lai massacre did not occur since the Vietnam war memorial does not specifically prove that it did. C'mon "scholars". Even you can see that your arguments here are more idiotic than usual. People only display their delusional nature by assuming that an entity for the purpose of memorializing widely accepted history would in any way take into account the fact that a few fringe lunatics, for reasons of ignorance, bigotry or to impress the people they parrot would deny history. To build the "Holocaust Memorial Museum to prove the Shoah occurred to the satisfaction of Brad "I speak" Smith and Dan "and my lips move" Gannon" would be a waste of time, right, fellows? Ego-check time, eh, Nazi-boys? > > > >-Dan Gannon > > -DS I speak for myself only. No unsolicited e-mail, please. I'll read your flames with everyone else. Please do not use my name in any subject headers. From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley Sun Mar 6 15:16:08 PST 1994 Article: 8535 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley From: email@example.com (Seth J. Bradley) Subject: Re: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!" Message-ID: <1994Mar6.firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: email@example.com Organization: Intel Corporation References: <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 21:14:10 GMT Lines: 52 In article <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> firstname.lastname@example.org writes: > Yet not even Winston Churchill in his six-volume history of World War >Two, or Dwight D. Eisenhower in his memoirs, made reference to homicidal >gassing chambers. How do the Holocaust Lobby and its Museum explain that? How can anyone explain how Gannon can keep posting this lie, even though its been refuted dozens of times? Churchill, in a letter to Foreign Secretary Eden, regarding the killing of Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz (from Churchill's book about WW2): --------------------------------------------------------------- There is no doubt that this is probably the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilized men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of Europe. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe": ---------------------------------------------------------------- "The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock. I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.' Some members of the visiting party were unable to through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton's headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt." ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SSD-CT Internet: email@example.com UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley ---------------------------------------- "A system admin's life is a sorry one. The only advantage he has over Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare. On the other hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions of their own innards!" -Michael O'Brien From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!princeton!faust!roger Sun Mar 6 15:19:51 PST 1994 Article: 23875 of soc.history Newsgroups: soc.history Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!princeton!faust!roger From: roger@faust.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) Subject: Re: LOCKED OUT OF THIS NEWSGROUP!! TAKE NOTE!! Message-ID: <1994Mar4.214410.1740@Princeton.EDU> Originator: news@nimaster Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: faust.princeton.edu Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org (Roger Lustig) Organization: Princeton University References: <9403031701.A6607wk@banished.com> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 21:44:10 GMT Lines: 195 In article <9403031701.A6607wk@banished.com> email@example.com writes: >Locked out of this newsgroup!! Take note!! >******************************************* > Administrators at Netcom have told me I cannot post any more messages >about Holocaust Revisionism to this newsgroup. They have given me a list of >the ONLY newsgroups they will allow me to post to in the future. I have no >choice but to comply. Fortunately, they are allowing me this one last >message. So you decided to include as many lies in it as possible. > Ken McVay and other "Holocaust activists" have been conducting a public >campaign to encourage people to complain to Netcom about my posts, in a >desperate attempt to censor me. As a result, Netcom received numerous >complaints. And why not? Your postings were rude, often slanderous, and far too many in number. You repeatedly post the same texts, without any comment, and without taking into account the clear and incontrovertible refutations of their content that have been posted. At the same time, you have prattled on about wanting open debate, but run from such debate whenever it is offered. You post pseudoscientific junk, and offer nothing but nonsense when it is rebutted. > There is a lobby which opposes any critical examination or questioning >of the "Holocaust story" or of Israeli policy. I challenge you to name one such person, let alone a "lobby." Moreover, I challenge you to present one of *your* postings that constitutes "critical examination." Your postings tend to do the opposite. As for Israeli policy, what does that have to do with the matter? >Complaints from them are to >be expected, especially when they think they have something to gain by >complaining. Peace and quiet, and newsgroups undisturbed by recycled garbage. >After they heard that complaints to Netcom were getting them >somewhere, it greatly encouraged them and they began a public campaign to >send complaints to Netcom about my posts. They boasted of their previous >"successes", encouraging the sending of ever more complaints. And do you suppose that Netcom didn't consider the matter on its merits? > Numerous untrue complaints were sent. For example: I have never >posted to or certain groups that I have been accused of >posting to. Vulgar forgeries have also been repeatedly posted in my name. >The campaign of vicious slander against me (both public and private) has >been constant and most deliberate. But none of it has compared to your own campaign to defame yourself in the eyes of decent people. > Highly controversial issues are always like this, especially when What's highly controversial? You'v never presented a single piece of evidence that, when examined, would call into question the basic facts of the Holocaust. And your track record with what you *have* presented is so pathetic that it would be hard to believe you if you *did* stumble across a fact one day. >ENORMOUS sums of money are involved (the billions of dollars per year Israel >receives from U.S. taxpayers, for example). Another lie. The support of Israel is unconnected to the particulars of the Holocaust. >That money alone creates >TREMENDOUS pressure and a VERY powerful lobby, as you can imagine. Not to >mention the incomparable power of the Jewish-controlled mass media. (For Still more lies. >proof of the Jewish control of the mass media, see Banished CPU's FTP Mail >Server!) Which contains some of Dan's most disgusting nonsense. "Jewish-controlled" would seem to mean that Jews work there in some capacity. > As a Libertarian economics professor of mine once explained, such >"entitlement programs" are ALWAYS abused and inevitably create >uncontrollable corruption. Um, since when are the mass media an entitlement program? Also, could you show me how all entitlement programs are uncontrollably corrupt? I can think of dozens that are not. > In fact, the Israeli lobby (a.k.a. the Holocaust lobby) has long been >the MOST FEARED LOBBY ON CAPITOL HILL, and their PACs (Political Action >Committees) spend more money per year bribing American politicians than ANY >OTHER LOBBY, including the AMERICAN labor unions! The Israeli lobby is not >even an American lobby. > A book by ex-Congressman Paul Findley entitled _They Dare to Speak Out_ >documents all this very well, and from numerous primary sources. So does >_Stealth PACs_ by Richard H. Curtiss. Both books are available from >American Educational Trust: 1-800-368-5788 toll-free. (If you call, ask >for a free sample copy of _The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs_.) Speaking of unbiased sources... >The American Educational Trust and _The Washington Report_ was founded by >and is run by veterans of the U.S. military, U.S. intelligence agencies and >U.S. political offices. All of whom have an abiding, unconditional hatred for Israel. >Following are the ONLY newsgroups Netcom says I am still allowed to post to: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >alt.revisionism >talk.politics.misc >soc.culture.german >soc.culture.jewish We'd appreciate it if you stayed out of these two, also. Unless your only purposes is to offend, your hateful postings have no business there. >soc.rights.human >alt.discrimination >alt.conspiracy >alt.illuminati >alt.individualism >alt.mindcontrol >alt.politics.correct >alt.politics.reform >alt.censorship >Newsgroups I am NOT allowed to post to any longer INCLUDE the following: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >soc.history >soc.history.moderated >talk.politics.mideast >alt.activism >alt.society.civil-liberties >alt.society.civil-liberty >sci.skeptic >soc.culture.europe >soc.culture.austria >soc.culture.polish >soc.culture.soviet >soc.culture.usa >soc.politics >soc.veterans >soc.answers >alt.society.civil-disob >alt.society.revolution >alt.society.etrnl.vigilanc >alt.politics.usa.misc >alt.politics.libertarian >alt.politics.reform >alt.politics.media >alt.cabal >alt.journalism.criticism >alt.extropians.forbidden.topics >alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum [Note: I am NOT a Nazi!!!] Something that would be hard to convince us of. You speak warmly of Nazism, and of Nazis. You post the writings of Nazisd like Zundel and Weber. You refuse to distance yourself from the policies and lies of Nazism, and willingly repeat them. And your entire enterprise is devoted to whitewashing, covering up, and denying the most ghastlydeeds of Nazism. >alt.society.resistance >--- And EVERY OTHER NEWSGROUP as well! --- Well, considering that most of us would have to post three times as much as we normally do FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES to match your *annual* posting volume, it's not as though you didn't get a chance. You blew it. > I just wanted to let everyone know a little about what's going on here, >and how you can obtain more information if you are interested. If you would >like to protest or comment about this situation to Netcom, send mail to: >firstname.lastname@example.org >Thanks, and goodbye (for now anyway), >-Dan Gannon >"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2 + 2 = 4. Once that is granted, all >else follows." --George Orwell, _1984_ Too bad your Orwellian Big Lies got you into so much trouble. Some of us told Netcom what you added up to. Roger Lustig From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au!laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au!maddison Sun Mar 6 17:48:50 PST 1994 Article: 54789 of soc.culture.jewish Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au!laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au!maddison From: email@example.com (David Maddison) Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: OPEN LETTER TO EDITORS OF BRANDEIS "JUSTICE" Date: 28 Feb 1994 11:29:50 GMT Organization: Macquarie University, Sydney Australia Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> References: <9402261450.A3823wk@banished.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au In article <9402261450.A3823wk@banished.com> email@example.com writes: [More Gannon Garbage deleted.] 1) Gannon, you are a moron. 2) You post the same things over and over again. 3) You do not understand how historical research works. 4) You quote from non-academic, non-peer-reviewed "journals". 5) You do not understand the concept of "sources" in historical research. 6) You post lies. 7) The way to prove that the Holocaust occurred is to examine the historical record. 8) You would not know a fact if you saw one. 9) True or false? 1 + 1 = 3 Quick, now Gannon. 10) You are truly a pathetic individual. 11) Judaism teaches that even in the most evil individuals, there is some spark of goodness, of life. Maybe you could try and discover what your spark of life is Gannon and stop your ridiculous postings. David Maddison Cybernomad. From oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ai292 Sun Mar 6 21:38:26 PST 1994 Article: 8550 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: oneb!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ai292 From: ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee) Subject: Re: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!" Message-ID: Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Reply-To: ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet References: <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 02:51:49 GMT Lines: 46 In a previous article, email@example.com () says: > > >You have a right to know the facts! > > > A REVISIONIST CHALLENGE TO THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM > > By Bradley R. Smith > > > [long lines of rubbish deleted] Dan, you never stop posting this rubbish, do you? Back to the old trick of trying to deflect the debate from its real direction. Let's assume that the article is right, although it is not. There were no gas chambers. What does that prove? Does it prove the extermination of the Jews was not attempted by the Nazis? Of course not. You haven't forgotten the Einsatzgruppen, have you? They killed about 2 million Jews all by themselves. You haven't forgotten the Wannsee conference, the testimony of Ohlendorf at Nuremberg, and so on? But the fact of the matter is that gas chambers were used. I don't care what is in the Holocaust museum. If every artifact there is phoney, that still doesn't matter a hill of beans. The proof of the use of gas chambers comes from the *Germans*, from the people who made them, supplied them, operated them and sold them. It comes from the victims, a precious few who survived. It comes from documents produced by the Germans during the war. And it comes from their admissions after the war. How do you explain this? You can't, so you indulge in your well-worn tactic of confusing the issue. It won't work, Dan. Everyone is on to you. Even Hermann abandoned you. You continue to demonstrate that you are a little Nazi puppet, and a rather stupid one at that. -- Gordon McFee ai292 I'll write no line before its time! Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,alt.illuminati,alt.individualism,alt.politics.correct Subject: "YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE FACTS!" - But Smith won't provide them Summary: Expires: References: <9403060309.A8997wk@banished.com> <9403060324.A9003wk@banished.com> <9403060309.A8996wk@banished.com> <9403060324.A9001wk@banished.com> <9403060325.A9002wk@banished.com> <9403060309.A8991wk@banished.com> Sender: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Distribution: world Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac Keywords: In article <9403060309.A8997wk@banished.com>, and ten others, Dan Gannon, Hitler-Cleanser, and owner-operator of Portland's shame, offers once again Bradley Smith's tired propaganda: >You have a right to know the facts! And Mr. Gannon, as he has demonstrated for two years, feels he has a right to ignore them completely. In fact he must, in order to digest the crap he shovels out with such dispatch. > A REVISIONIST CHALLENGE TO THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM > By Bradley R. Smith > This ad does not claim "the Holocaust never happened." Those who say >it does want to muddy the issue. This is what the ad does claim: The U.S. >Holocaust Memorial Museum displays no proof whatever of homicidal gassing >chambers, and no proof that even one individual was "gassed" in a German >program of "genocide." Ignoring the obvious, of course, which is this: the museum has no obligation to "prove" the gassing of Holocaust victims; this fact - repeat, for the reality-challenged (That's you, Nazi-Boy) - _fact_ is beyond dispute. It offers encyclopaedias about Mr. Smith's approach to the Holocaust, and to the promulgation of the _big _ lie. It also offers typical proof of Mr. Smith's utter disregard for the targets of his continuing attack upon the Jews. He is, patently, catering to the simple-minded and brain-deficient specimens, much like our Mr. Gannon. Anyone blessed with a mind that works isn't going to be suckered that easily - I offer Mr. Gannon to establish my thesis. The Louve does not have to 'prove' that Michelangelo existed. NASA does not have to 'prove' that the moon exists. Elvis is dead. Some things, Nazi-Boy, are beyond dispute. One such is the gassing of victims during the Holocaust. Get used to it. > The question, then, is not, "Did the Holocaust happen?" The question >is: If there were no gas chambers, WHAT WAS THE HOLOCAUST? Sorry, Mr. Smith, but you have failed to demonstrate gassing did not occur; the question is moot. The Holocaust, by the way, was the deliberate and calculated extermination of roughly eleven to twelve _million_ victims, many of whom were Jews, and many of whom met their ends in homicidal gas chambers. Say and do what you will, twist and obfuscate to serve your end, but don't presume to offer such lame attempts at "historical logic" (for wont of a better phrase) to your readers here on the net. > This Museum promotes the charge that the Germans murdered the Jews of >Europe in homicidal gassing chambers. It therefore has a MORAL OBLIGATION >to demonstrate that the charge is true. Those who contend it is more >important to be sensitive than truthful about whether the gas chambers truly >existed are enemies of intellectual freedom and of the university itself. The museum promotes remembrance, Brad. And it works. Get used to _that_, too. Millions upon millions will learn from the museum, and take the truth home with them. That must gall you some. >WHAT ARE THE FACTS? > The Museum's "proof" for a gas chamber at Birkenau is a plastic model >created by a Polish ARTISTE. A plastic copy of a metal door is displayed as >"proof" of a homicidal gas chamber at Maidanek. And, incredibly, the Museum >has simply dropped the Auschwitz gas chamber, the basement room visited >yearly by hundreds of thousands of tourists in Poland. This is a museum, not a courtroom. The jury in this case decided the issue long ago, and neither you nor your Nazi associates will reverse their findings. > There is no mention of the alleged gas chambers at Buchenwald or even >at Dachau, where after World War II American G.I.s and German civilians were >assured that more than 200,000 victims were "gassed and burned." There is no mention of my bassett hound Buddy, either, but I assure you he exists. > The notion that eyewitness testimony, given under highly politicized >and emotional circumstances, is PRIMA FACIE true, was refuted by the Israeli >Supreme Court when it acquitted John Demjanjuk of being "Ivan the Terrible." >The Israeli Court found that the eyewitnesses who testified against >Demjanjuk could not be believed! Nonsense, Mr. Smith. The ISC established that insufficient evidence existed to sustain Demjanuk's identification as Ivan the Terrible. Nothing less, and a great deal more. (Those interested in learing more about Demjanjuk's trial may send the command INDEX DEMJANJUK to firstname.lastname@example.org. Add the command HELP GET for retrieval assistance.) > Deborah Lipstadt argues in her much-praised _Denying the Holocaust_, >that revisionists ["deniers"] should not be debated because there can not be >another side to the gas chamber stories. She charges that it is hateful to >demand proof that the weapon allegedly used to commit horrendous acts of >mass murder actually existed! She argues -- in this one instance only -- >that we betray America's old civil virtues of free inquiry and open debate. >For the benefit of whom? Adolf Hitler, perhaps. Cleansing his reputation, and that of the Nazis, has been a high priority among deniers for long years. You know the truth, Mr. Smith - your literature condemns you. > I'm not in disagreement with Ms. Lipstadt and her CLIQUE on the gas >chamber controversy because they may be Zionists or Jews. That's >disingenuous. I'm in disagreement with her over the fact that she argues >against "light of day," our understanding that in a free society ALL ideas >are best illuminated in the "light" of open debate. Remember Dershowitz? He agreed to debate with you, providing Elvis-is-dead and the-earth-is-flat were debated at the same time. (Add the command GET HOLOCAUST DERSHOWITZ for the full story.. it's worth a read...) > The Museum is so confident no one will challenge its gas-chamber >gimcrackery that it even claims to have found a new "death camp" gas >chamber. Proof? The uncorroborated story of one man with the usual overlay >of sado-masochistic fantasy. THE MUSEUM'S HISTORIAN DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE >THE PLACE WAS! It "may have been" near Giessen. "May have been?" That's >the best historical writing $200 million can buy? As any competent historian will tell you, Mr. Smith, the documentation for the Holocaust is so extensive that it will probably require many more decades to sort it out. The prosecution team at Nuremberg was literally swamped with captured documents - including Frank's entire journal, for instance, and didn't begin to make a dent it what was available. So great is the mass of this material that scholars may study it for centuries, let alone decades. Real research, unlike the variety you and your associates are familiar with, involves tedious attention to reams of details.. obscure documentation in even more obscure archives, new material from the Eastern block which was never available before, etc. It shouldn't surprise anyone that it is difficult to determine all the facts overnight, or even in fifty or sixty short years. > When I challenge such gas-chamber vaporings I understand I'm going to >be slandered as an antisemite by the True Believers in the Holocaust Lobby. >These quasi-religious Holocaust zealots claim that because of the purity of >their own feelings about the Jewish experience during World War Two, mine >must be soiled when I express doubt in what they preach as "truth." The truth speaks volumes, Mr. Smith. > Yet not even Winston Churchill in his six-volume history of World War >Two, or Dwight D. Eisenhower in his memoirs, made reference to homicidal >gassing chambers. How do the Holocaust Lobby and its Museum explain that? The same way Dr. Keren has explained it, Mr. Smith. You are lying. Mr. Gannon has often repeated the same lie, and it is well documented... sending GET HOLOCUAST/B-CPU LIE.04 to my server will demonstrate this beyond question. Period. [snip] >THE OPERATION AND TECHNIQUE OF THE MUSEUM > The Museum's exhibit technique is a mixture of sinister suggestion and >dishonest omission. The first display confronting visitors beginning the >Museum tour is a wall-sized photograph of American soldiers looking at >corpses smoldering on a pyre. The "context" in which you see the photo >suggests that the dead pictured in it are murdered Jews. It is interesting that you somehow think you've scored a point here - does it really matter who the victims were? Perhaps they were Jewish, perhaps they were not. They were Holocaust. > But were the prisoners killed or did they die of typhus or some other >disease during the last terrible weeks of the war? Autopsies made by Allied >medical personnel found that inmates died of disease. Not one was found to >have been "gassed." ALL SUCH RELEVANT INFORMATION IS PURPOSELY OMITTED FROM >THIS EXHIBIT. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THE DEAD PICTURED IN THE PHOTO ARE >JEWS! Such ranting! Gannon and his upper-case dementia surfaces once again... The documentation, and the eyewitness testimony, is quite clear - those who were gassed were either immediately cremated in the ovens, or burned in massive pyres. Those who had been buried in mass graves early on were later dug up by Sonderkommandos and burned. All these things are known, all documented beyond dispute. You are kidding no-one here. > Unable to judge the significance of the photograph, and not wanting to >believe the Museum would mislead you, you are moved to accept the false and >manipulative suggestion that it somehow represents the "genocide" of the >European Jews. You see, Mr. Smith, that's just another case where you are wrong. I would feel the misery, and the sadness, and the horror of the Holocaust. I am already more than familiar with the reality of the Nazi genocide. Followups to alt.revisionism, where this article has been shot down more than once in the past few months, and where Gannon will no doubt ignore all such rebuttals - he is, after all, a coward, with no stomach or ability to deal with reality.
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