The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-03/tgmwc-03-26.02
Last-Modified: 1998/04/07

                                                  [Page 245]

Q. What, if anything, did you have to do with making up that

A. This chart was made during my interrogation.

COLONEL AMEN: For the information of the Tribunal, the chart
of which the witness speaks is Exhibit US.A. 493.

Q. Will you tell the Tribunal whether that chart correctly
portrays the basic organization of the R.S.H.A., as well as
the position of Kaltenbrunner, the Gestapo, and the S.D. in
the German Police system?

A. The organisation, as represented in that chart, is a
correct representation of the organisation of the R.S.H.A.
It shows correctly the position of the S.A. as well as the
State Police, the Criminal Police, and the S.D.

Q. Referring once more to the chart, please indicate your
position in the R.S.H.A. and state for what period you
continued to serve in that capacity.

(At this point the witness pointed to Amt III on the chart.)

Q. What were the positions of Kaltenbrunner, Mueller, and
Eichmann in the R.S.H.A., and state for what periods of time
each of them continued to serve in his respective capacity?

A. Kaltenbrunner was Chief of the Sicherheitspolizei and the
S.D.; as such, he was also Chief of the R.S.H.A., the
internal organisational term for the office of the chief of
the Sicherheitspolizei and the S.D.

Kaltenbrunner occupied this position from 30th January,
1943, until the end of the war. Mueller was Chief of Amt IV,
the Gestapo. When the Gestapo was established, he became
Deputy Chief, and as such he subsequently was appointed
Chief of Amt IV of the R.S.H.A.. He occupied this position
until the end of the war.

Eichmann occupied a position in Amt IV under Mueller and
worked on the Jewish problem from 1940 on. To my knowledge,
he also occupied this position until the end of the war.

Q. Will you tell us for what period of time you continued to
serve as Chief of Amt III?

A. I was Chief of Amt III from 1939 to 1945.

Q. Turning now to the designation "Mobile Units" with the
Army, shown in the lower right-hand corner of the chart,
please explain to the Tribunal the significance of the terms
"Einsatzgruppe" and "Einsatzkommando".

A. The concept "Einsatzgruppe" was established after an
agreement between the Chiefs of the R.S.H.A., O.K.W., and
O.K.H., in regard to the use of the Sipo in the area of
operation. The concept "Einsatzgruppe" first appeared during
the Polish campaign.

The agreement with the O.K.H. and O.K.W., however, was first
arrived at before the beginning of the Russian campaign.
This agreement specified that an official of the Sipo and
the S.D. should be assigned to the Army Groups, or the
Armies, and that this official would have at his disposal
mobile units of the Sipo and the S.D. in the form of
Einsatzgruppen, subdivided into Einsatzkommandos. The
Einsatzkommandos should be assigned to the Army Units as
needed, to the particular Army Group or Army.

Q. State, if you know, whether prior to the campaign against
Soviet Russia, any agreement was entered into between the
O.K.W., O.K.H., and R.S.H.A.?

                                                  [Page 246]

A. Yes, the Einsatzgruppen, just described by me,  and the
Einsatzkommandos were used in the Russian campaign,
according to a written agreement between the O.K.W., O.K.H.,
and R.S.H.A..

Q. How do you know that there was such a written agreement?

A. I was often present when the negotiations which
Schellenberg conducted with the O.K.H. and OKW were being
discussed, and I also had a written copy of this agreement
in my own hands when I took over the Einsatzgruppen.

Q. Explain to the Tribunal who Schellenberg was. What
position, if any, did he occupy?

A. Schellenberg was finally the Chief of Amt VI in the
R.S.H.A.; at the time when he was conducting these
negotiations as ordered by Heydrich, he belonged to the Amt.

Q. On approximately what date did these negotiations take

A. The negotiations took several weeks. The agreement must
have been reached about one or two weeks before the
beginning of the Russian campaign.

Q. Did you yourself ever see a copy of this written

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have occasion to work with this written

A. Yes.

Q. On more than one occasion?

A. Yes; and in regard to more than one question which had to
do with the use of Einsatzgruppen in the Army.

Q. Do you know where the original or any copy of that
agreement is located to-day?

A. No, I do not.

Q. To the best of your knowledge and recollection, please
explain to the Tribunal the entire substance of this written

A. First of all, the agreement stated the fact that
Einsatzgruppen should be set up and that  Einsatzkommandos
should be used for joint efforts in this operation. Up to
that time the Army had completely taken over the tasks that
the Sipo should have done itself.

THE PRESIDENT: What is it that you say the Einsatzkommandos
did under the agreement?

A. The second was the authority of the Army in regard to the
Einsatzgruppen and the Einsatzkommandos. The agreement
specified that the Army Groups or Armies should be
responsible for marching and maintenance so far as the
Einsatzgruppen were concerned. Particular  instructions came
from the Chief of the Sipo and S.D.

Q. Let us understand. Is it correct that an Einsatz Group
was to be attached to each Army Group or Army?

A. Every Army Group was to have attached to it an
Einsatzgruppe. The Einsatzkommandos, in their turn, were to
be attached to the Armies by the Army Group.

Q. And was the Army Command to determine the area within
which the Einsatz Group was to operate?

A. The operational region of the Einsatzgruppe was
determined by the fact that the Einsatzgruppe was attached
to a specific Army Group and therefore marched with it,
whereas the Einsatzkommandos functioned in territories as
determined by the Army Group or Army.

                                                  [Page 247]

Q. Did the agreement also provide that the Army Command was
to direct the time during which they were to operate?

A. That was included under the concept "March."

Q. And also to direct any additional tasks they were to

A. Yes. As far as the actual instructions of the Chiefs of
the Sipo and S.D. were concerned, they were guided by the
general practice that they could issue orders to the Army if
the operational situation made it necessary.

Q. What did this agreement provide with respect to the
attachment of the Einsatz Group Command to the Army Command?

A. I cannot remember whether anything specific was said
about that. At any rate, an attachment was established.

Q. Do you recall any other provisions of this written

A. I believe I can state the essential content of that

Q. What position did you occupy with respect to this

A. From June, 1941, to the death of Heydrich in June, 1942,
I led Einsatzgruppe D, and was the Deputy of the Chief of
the Sipo and the S.D. with the 11th Army.

Q. And when was Heydrich's death?

A. Heydrich was wounded at the end of  May, 1942, and died
on 4th June, 1942.

Q. How much advance notice, if any, did you have of the
campaign against Soviet Russia?

A. About four weeks.

Q. How many Einsatz Groups were there, and who were their
respective leaders?

A. There were four Einsatzgruppen, Group A, B, C and D.
Chief of Einsatzgruppe A was Stahlecker; Chief of
Einsatzgruppe B was Nebe; Chief of Einsatzgruppe C Dr.
Rausche, and later, Dr. Thomas; Chief of Einsatzgruppe D,

Q. To which army was Group D attached?

A. Group D was not attached to any Army Group, but was
attached directly to the 11th Army.

Q. Where did Group D operate?

A. Group D operated in the Southern Ukraine.

Q. Will you describe in more detail the nature and extent of
the area in which Group D originally operated, naming the
cities or territories?

A. The most Northern city was Czernowitz; then Southward to
Mogilev-Podelsk; South-west to Odessa; North-east of that,
Melitopol, Mariupol, Taganrog, Rostov and the Crimea.

Q. What was the ultimate objective of Group D?

A. Group D was held in reserve for the Caucasus. An Army
Group was provided for this operation.

Q. When did Group D commence its move into Soviet Russia?

A. Group D left Duegen on 21st June, reaching Romania in 21
days. There the first Einsatzkommandos were already being
demanded by the Army, and they marched at once to the goals
set by the Army. The entire Einsatzgruppe was made use of at
the beginning of July.

Q. You are referring to the 11th Army?

A. Yes.

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