Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3786-ps.04 Last-Modified: 1999/11/26 Goering: The Wlassow-men surely are so hated over there, that they'll be punished if they are caught. The Fuehrer: Don't say that, they are deserting just the same. Goering: That is the only thing they can do: desert, they are not capable of more. Guderian: Shall the division garrisoned in Muensingen be gotten ready speedily? The Fuehrer: Yes, indeed, have them made ready. Fegelein:The Reichsfuehrer wanted to be put in command of the two divisions. The Fuehrer: Wlassow will not desert. Goering: They can't do more than desert. Then they'll no longer eat here. Fegelein:The men will not desert, either: I have seen them. The Fuehrer: They look mad. We have experienced it in France, they did desert. [Page 678] Fegelein: The Russians will kill them all, because the Russians also kill all the laborers who have worked for us. We already have the proofs. They will beat them all to death. The Fuehrer: We do exactly the same with those who have worked in the West. The Allies find it already difficult to find a mayor. Goering: I would use the Wlassow-men just the same. Fegelein: And the officers from Sagan. Goering: Obergruppenfuehrer Tuettner shall move the 10,000 prisoners away from Sagan. The Fuehrer: They must be moved away by all the means available, Volkssturm will have to be called out with the most energetic men. Attempted flight will be punished with shooting. Fegelein: We have a man for it, who guarded the KZs. That is Gruppenfuelirer Gluecks, he will have to do it. Guderian: Schoerner is complaining that Group Rudd has been called away. He asks for a written report on it and is beside himself. This is really inexcusable, after all one has to give something to the Reichsfuehrer. The Fuehrer: Because he has nothing at all. Rudel can move much better out in the open than in the industrial section. Guderian: Then may I tell Schoerner, that this is your order. I have talked it over with ZolIer once more. He is of the same opinion. Then there are 1,800 men of the SS antitank replacement and training unit at Kastenburg. They shall be moved out immediately. I believe, they will have to be left in Koenigsberg, so that that man has something. The Fuehrer: But there is no SS-unit here. I would put them also at Himmler's disposal, he needs them. There they have nothing at all. They must be given to Himmler, so he can gradually get a skeleton force. Guderian: At present they are with the combat group Hauser, which has been at Loetzen. The Fuehrer: If they were defending Loetzen, I would not say anything. But after that is gone anyhow! [Page 679] Guderian: The question is, whether they are to be left in Koenigsberg, so as not to create a complete vacuum there. The Fuehrer: I am afraid they will not get to Koenigsberg, but go to the West. Guderian: An order can be given to that effect. The Fuehrer: You can give orders alright. But whether they'll be carried out! Nobody carries out the orders. Guderian: Yes, they do. Burgdorf: Rendulic has just arrived up there. Guderian: Rendulic and Natzmer have taken over the command. Goering: The decisive question is arms.We screen out men. The men are here and get no arms. Guderian: Here are the strength reports. I don't know if you have asked Wenck for them. (Report) The 203rd has 3400 men, the 541st has 3100 still. Of the "Hannibal" -- that is to say the police unit -- there are 900 men; combat unit Hauser and 21st could not be obtained, however, "Grossdeutschland", still halfway OK: 2 medium, 1 average, 3 weak battalions, 4 light batteries, 39 pieces of heavy artillery. This means the corps artillery and army artillery. Armor strength considerably diminished. Yet altogether still some 25. Then, my Fuehrer I wanted to request the authorization, to remove the recruits of 1928 from the Eastern military districts, so that they will be trained only in somewhat safer military districts. Keitel:Otherwise the Russians will take them. Every month about 50- to 60,000 men, we need them under all circumstances. Guderian: Military districts I, XX and XXI; VI and XII have dropped out, VIII has dropped out also. Already II and 11I have to be exempted too. Keitel:For the next 3 or 4 months. I have had everything discussed once more with Juettner today. Goering: Arms! Arms! The Fuehrer: That is quite clear. We are losing industrial areas all the time and do not have as many arms. Goering: But we mobilize men and thereby everywhere harm our reserve. [Page 680] The Fuehrer: What are you talking about reserves. At present we cannot work to capacity in the industry, anyhow. Goering: No I mean military reserves. Without any consideration everything is crowded together to the utmost, to get men free, and we have no arms I want to call attention to one thing only. I was obliged to turn in all the small arms of the anti-aircraft. And I have done it. Now the anti-aircraft stands there with their heavy guns and has no small arms. So and so many heavy batteries were overpowered in combat because they had no small arms and could not shoot with the heavy guns. The Fuehrer: A large program is coming up. I hope that it can be carried through with the forces at our disposal; I can not say. 900,000 assault pistols are to be manufactured monthly. Buhle: That will require some time yet. The Fuehrer: And the People's Rifle [Volkswehr]? Buhle: The People's Rifle is being delivered now. This month we will get the first 8,000, next month 25,000, and the month after that 50,000. That's the prognosis. Goering: The arms, which Field Marshal Keitel has taken away from us. The Fuehrer: Where are our rifles manufactured? Mainly in Upper Silesia? Buhle: No, the rifle factories are located more in Central Germany, in Sulil and Oberndorf. But there are also a lot of them in Wuerttemberg, and there is the terrible shortage of coal and electricity. The Fuehrer:As far as I know, the rifle and machine-gun factories are not afrected by it. Buhle: This is going to be shortened now. It will be completely adapted to the emergency program for coal and electricity, to that everything else will stop with one stroke and something will come along there. Hence this month will be a very bad one. Guderian: Then regarding the situation of south I want to state: The army group believes, that in that sector they cannot get along with only one division. [Page 681] They propose, to have the entire Corps Gille with 2 divisions remain there, to get out the first and 23rd and to take together the entire group under Breith. The Fuehrer: Here we have to protect ourselves also; because here will be the next very large attack. The moment we leave there the big push will start. This is even more dangerous. v. Freytag- Loringhoven: The 346th has arrived with 6 troop trains. The Fuehrer: But this has no fighting power yet. These trains cannot be considered. All that comes from Italy are at first the service forces. Guderian: There were, however, already a few combat troops among them. I shall find out, how much it is. The Fuehrer: When he withdraws the 23rd, he has here only the cavalry. When this goes over to the defensive he will come over with his armor. This is a great danger. Guderian: He will have to leave his armored group long enough until the danger is entirely removed. The Fuehrer: He has to leave his armored group by all means here. Jodl: The combat echelon went at first, and is departed. It has now completely left down there. Winter: It travels about with speed? The Fuehrer: But this is the decisive point. If he succeeds in breaking through here, everything is lost, we have to be clear about that. I have no objection to the Korps Gille going also over to the defensive. Guderian: The Ist panzer division out and assigned to the 3rd. and whatever can be relieved of the 23rd, in addition the Generalkommando Breith. The Fuehrer: He believes that he can not do it with the 1st alone. Guderian: I do not know it, I have to discuss that myself. The Fuehrer: How does the Ist look on the whole? Guderian: It is not too strong any more. It was replenished once more in numbers. The 23rd is in fact the stronger one, it is better. The Fuehrer: When I speak of danger, I would say: Danger-point one is here, danger-point 2 is here, danger-point 3 is here. If he breaks through at this [Page 682] place everything is lost. If he advances here, this part will collapse too. Guderian: This is the 1st, the 3rd, the 23rd. The Fuehrer: The 23rd is the best. Guderian: Yes, passable, also the 6th, and then the two SS divisions. This is the position of the 24th. It has somewhat suffered naturally in the fighting. But in spite of that, it is always the best with regards to replacements -- I shall discuss that. The Fuehrer: Say it again: This is the most critical point. The next one is here. When he breaks through at this place the thing is lost. This is also a dangerous point. Guderian: Here are artillery and mine throwers. The Fuehrer: When one is forced into a hose, it will slow up the retreat. But here you have the wide plain. When he penetrates in here the whole thing collapses, this is the most dangerous. Jodl: No important change has been noticed with the enemy apart from the 6th English airborne division which went into the lines in the. sector of Venlo which caused a slight consolidation of these very wide division sectors. In the attack on the Roer bridgehead also no additional divisions have been deployed, apart from a few panzer brigades, so that the English guard panzer division and the 50th English division, also the 11th English panzer division are here still in the reserve. The American group around Luettich is very likely still there. The Fuehrer: What about the English air attacks in the south in connection with the weather situation. Keitel: No attacks on a large scale. Jodl: It was bad, it was snow storm and fog. Goering: No action on both sides. I therefore do not believe solely in the weather condition. Keitel: There was no large scale attack. Jodl: Only five trainloads have been dispatched of the 1st SS panzer division. The division is now moving into the sector. Gasoline is there. If now further delays should occur it will be the fault of the march technique or of the strongly snow-covered roads. Here too the conditions did not deteriorate. [Page 683] The Fuehrer: One day without flying is of course better than five days with flying, if they move fast on such a day. Goering: There is no flying today, Bucchs? Buechs: No. v. Below: Very little, so far. Jodl: The 12th SS pz. division is moving now with the advance units into the zone of embarkation. The 9th SS pz. division has also started moving. It is unknown in what direction the 2nd must come. The Fuehrer: If the weather stays like that for one or two days, do you believe that he will attack? When can we count on the arrival in Vienna of at least the combat troops of this panzer army, not before two or three weeks? Jodl: The one corps will be there in a fortnight. The Fuehrer: And the 2nd corps? Jodl: That one will mix. Winter: That will take 12 days. The 2nd Corps can be there in another 4 or 5 days., if it keeps going like it did so far. The Fuehrer: They are arriving just in time, because down there will be the next crisis. Jodl: The railroad will probably run then very smoothly. If they are assembled now we should think that in 16 days the complete 4 divisions will be there and the speed with 40 trains will then be rather fluid. The Fuehrer: This is the first real fighting power. Keitel: Across Germany it goes very fast. Goering: In a fortnight he can be deployed up there. Jodl: 23 trains arrived with the second mountain division. The 25th did not start moving yet. The Fuehrer: How did the 2nd stand up? I understand it had a slight failure. Jodl: Yes, I have such a report. I shall ask the division commander for another report. The Fuehrer: But it proved itself very well up there. The best division can once sustain a reverse somewhere. Jodl: There are entirely new conditions here. It is always like that. When a division comes into a new theatre of operation. there is always a little crisis at first.
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