The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-09/tgmwc-09-79.05
Last-Modified: 1999/12/6

Q. I understood your testimony to be that the
Reichsmarschall went to Hitler at some time and wanted this
campaign, against people who were in the Roehm revolt
stopped, and I want to know why he wanted it stopped.

A. In order to prevent innocent people being involved. Only
the really guilty were to be caught and accordingly
punished. It was clear that on this occasion someone or
other might like to take personal revenge and do away with
his enemy, and, in order to prevent this, the action should
be stopped immediately and only ordinary courts should deal
with the matter.

Q. Who was in charge of the selection of the people who were
shot or otherwise killed as a result of the Roehm revolt?

A. The Fuehrer himself.

Q. The Reichsmarschall had sufficient influence to stop that
immediately when he complained?

A. At that time, yes, the Reichsmarschall definitely had
sufficient influence.

Q. In connection with this Four-Year Plan, you said that it
was its function to eliminate the confusion in the labour
market?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you represented the Reichsmarschall at many
meetings, did you not?

A. Yes.

Q. And was not one of your functions to get prisoners of war
to work in the
armament industry and other industries that needed labour?

A. No.

Q. You never had anything to do with that?

A. The General Plenipotentiary for the Employment of Labour,
of course, called for prisoners of war for labour.

Q. You attended many meetings when that was discussed, did
you not?

A. I cannot recall that.

Q. Did you report to the Reichsmarschall what happened at
those meetings?

A. When questions of a general nature were discussed, a
report was made and
submitted to the Reichsmarschall.

Q. You were a member of the Central Planning Board, were you
not?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were representing the Reichsmarschall on that
board?

A. No. I did not represent the Reichsmarschall there. It was
a nucleus of three men - Speer, the Field-Marshal, and
myself. The Central Planning Board was set up in the spring
of 1942.

Q. Who appointed you?

A. The three of us were appointed to the Central Planning
Board.

Q. Who appointed you?

                                                   [Page 17]

A. As far as I remember, Goering.

Q. And you reported to him, did you not, what occurred from
time to time?

A. The Central Planning Board was merely an office for the
distribution of raw materials. We usually met every three
months in order to fix the quotas for the following quarter.
Previously the Four-Year Plan, in co-operation with the
Minister of Economics, handled the distribution and, from
the spring of 1942 on, the Central Planning Board handled it
in the interests of armament.

Q. Now, do you want us to understand that the Central
Planning Board only met every three months?

A. Yes, approximately. In very rare cases another meeting
was called, especially if there were urgent problems to be
solved. I remember, for instance, the case when agriculture
was not getting enough nitrogen and, if the nitrogen quota
was too small, agricultural production would suffer. In view
of this State Secretary Backe asked for a meeting to be
called and this took place in the Central Planning Board.

Q. Would you testify that Sauckel did not report to the
Central Planning Board at a meeting at which you were
present that, out of all the labour that came to Germany -
only 200,000 came voluntarily - out of the millions who came
only 200,000 came voluntarily?

A. I cannot remember that.

Q. Do you say that the Central Planning Board never
discussed labour questions?

A. In the Central Planning Board only demands for labour
were submitted, and the quota holders to whom raw materials
were allocated also demanded the necessary labour. Only very
rough figures were given and then passed on to the General
Plenipotentiary for the Employment of Labour.

Q. What about prisoners of war?

A. With these the Central Planning Board was not at all
concerned, as it was only given rough figures. For instance,
if some branch of industry needed so many thousand workers,
they were called for.

Q. What about concentration camp labour?

A. The distribution of labour was dealt with by the labour
exchanges. The Central Planning Board had nothing to do with
it.

Q. Are you familiar with a letter dated 9th March, 1944,
citing that 36,000 concentration camp prisoners were now
being used and wanting an increase to 90,000?

A. I do not know about these demands.

Q. Do you know about the use of Russian prisoners of war in
manning anti-aircraft guns?

A. No.

Q. After Goering closed the unauthorised concentration
camps, did you know that the number of concentration camps
increased very greatly in Germany?

A. This I do not know. What happened after they were turned
over to Himmler is beyond my knowledge. It may be that a
large number of concentration camps was then set up.

Q. How did you come to know about Goering's relations with
Himmler? Did he tell you?

A. Goering once spoke about it, and I concluded that the
relations were not at all good.

Q. Do you know about the appointment of Kaltenbrunner as
head of the Austrian State Police after the Anschluss?

A. No.

Q. Do you know who obtained that appointment for
Kaltenbrunner?

A. No, I have no idea.

Q. Now, you say that Goering and you were in Munich on the
night or nights of the anti-Jewish riots in Germany?

                                                   [Page 18]

A. Yes.

Q. Was Goebbels also there?

A. No.

Q. Go on; do you want to say something else?

A. On 9th November we travelled from Munich to Berlin, so
Goebbels could not have been there then.

Q. Why could he not have been there?

A. Because the Reichsmarschall, with his entourage,
travelled in his train to Berlin.

Q. I mean, did you know that Goebbels was in Munich before
these uprisings?

A. Yes, that I heard afterwards-that Goebbels had been in
Munich. All National Socialist leaders were in Munich,
because 9th November was a day when all of them met.

Q. Goebbels spoke in Munich on the Jewish question that
night, did he not?

A. That I do not know. I do not remember the speech.

Q. Goering was there to attend the meeting of the National
Socialist leaders, was he not?

A. Yes, on 9th November the entire leadership of the
National Socialist Party met in Munich. It was an
anniversary meeting.

Q. Goering attended regularly?

A. Of course he did.

Q. You did, too?

A. I also did, yes.

Q. Hess also?

A . As I said, all National Socialist leaders always
attended if they possibly could. Nobody ever failed to
attend unless he was ill or was prevented by official
duties.

Q. Which of the defendants in the dock attended those
meetings? Ribbentrop, of course?

A . Ribbentrop, certainly.

Q. Keitel?

A. I assume so.

Q. Kaltenbrunner?

A. I never saw Kaltenbrunner because Kaltenbrunner held a
public post only during the latter years, and during these
years the meetings were not as regular as before.

Q. Rosenberg, of course, was there?

A. Of course, as I said before.

Q. Frank and Frick?

A. Certainly.

Q. Streicher?

A. Not during the latter years, I think, but previously he
had always attended.

Q. When was that, during the latter years?

A. As far as I know, Streicher did not attend during the
latter years, but I do not know for certain.

Q. He attended in November, 1938, at the time of the anti-
Jewish uprisings, did he not?

A. I believe so, because at that time Streicher was in
Nuremberg.

Q. He was very active, was he not?

A. I did not understand the question quite correctly.

Q. He was very active in the anti-Jewish matters, was he
not?

A. Yes, this is generally known.

Q. And did you see Funk at those meetings?

A. I believe that Funk frequently attended those meetings.

Q. What was the subject considered at this meeting of 9th
November, the night of the anti-Jewish uprising?

                                                   [Page 19]

A. I do not know of any discussions as there was always a
fixed programme on that day, and I do not know about
anything else, nor can the Reichsmarschall.

Q. Who was the adjutant who informed him on his arrival the
next morning that something had happened during the night?

A. This I cannot say exactly as the adjutants were always
changing. I only know that an adjutant came and reported.

Q. What did he say had happened?

A. He reported that during the night anti-Jewish riots had
taken place and were still going on; that shop windows had
been smashed, and goods thrown into the streets. Goering was
infuriated about this.

Q. What was he infuriated about?

A. About the riots.

Q. You mean that he was taking the part of the Jews?

A. About the entire action.

Q. You mean that he was taking the part of the Jews?

A. Goering always showed a different attitude to the Jewish
question.

Q. You just tell us what it was. You may go into all
details. Tell us what his attitude was.

A. He always showed a moderate attitude towards the Jews.

Q. Such as fining them a billion Reichsmark right after the
fire, right after these outrages? You know that he did that,
do you not?

A. Yes. The Fuehrer demanded it.

Q. You know that the Fuehrer is dead, do you not? Do you
know that for a fact?

A. Yes, I know he is dead.

Q. That is generally understood, is it not, among all of
you, that the Fuehrer is dead?

A. Yes.

Q. So the Fuehrer ordered the Reichsmarschall to levy a fine
of a billion Reichsmark? Who ordered the confiscation of the
insurance of the Jews a few days after this assault?

A. That I do not know. I can no longer remember the details.

Q. Do you not remember that that was Goering's order?

A. I cannot recall it now.

Q. Why did Goering go to Hitler to get this stopped? Why did
he not go to the head of the police, which is supposed to
prevent crime?

A. Naturally he went to the highest chief so that an
authoritative order could be given that the riots cease
immediately.

Q. Did he have any idea who had started them?

A. It had been said that Goebbels had instigated these
riots.

Q. Did he know that the Gestapo and S.S. also participated?

A . I do not know. As far as I know the S.S. did not
participate.

Q. Did the Gestapo?

A. No, I do not know this either.

Q. So he went to Hitler to complain about Goebbels
instigating these riots, is that the fact?

A. Yes, that is correct.

Q. So that he knew the next morning that these riots against
the Jews had been instigated by members of the Government?

A. Yes.

Q. You were interrogated at Obersalzberg, the interrogation
centre, on 4th October of last year by Dr. Kempner of our
staff, were you not?

A. Yes.


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