Archive/File: imt/nca/supp-b/nca-sb-02-kaltenbrunner.10 Last-Modified: 1997/11/23 Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression, Supplement B The Mass Execution at Lublin Excerpts from Testimony of Ernst Kaltenbrunner, taken at Nurnberg, Germany, 12 October 1945, 1545- 1715, by Lt. Col. Smith W. Brookhart, IGD. Also present: Capt. Jesse F. Landrum, Reporter; Capt. Mark Priceman, Interpreter. [Page 1309] Q. Did you know a Herr Morgan? A. No. Q. Inspector of concentration camps? A. No, definitely not. Q. Maybe it will help to refresh your recollection if I recall to you a few of the facts that occurred late in the autumn of 1943 as set forth in the report of Morgan [document referred to did not form part of the prosecution case as finally prepared and hence is not published in this series.], following the visit to Lublin. You do recall the time when several thousand Jews were slain in Lublin in one day? A. No. Q. And that their bodies were thereafter burned, there being so many that it caused a light dust to lie over the whole town and penetrate the air like smoke? A. These three stories are such fabrications, especially inasmuch as my person is concerned. Q. It was during the period in which you were Chief of the Reich Security Police. A. As I said, these stories are pure inventions, and besides your idea that I had anything to do with it in my official capacity is erroneous. Q. Referring again to the Lublin murders, the result of this mass execution could not have escaped your attention because as reported by Morgan after his inspection, it resulted in losing much of the available labor supply. There were no more people to work machines and in the handcraft shops. The factories were left with a tremendous stock of raw material, and the people in charge said that the order of the execution came as a complete surprise. A. I never saw any such report, and I never heard about them. Q. The local SS Oberfuehrer Muszfeld, who was formerly a confectioner, at Zuckerbaecker in the neighborhood of Kassel, was in immediate charge of the butchery at Lublin, and he told Morgan that he took credit for killing 20,000 by his own hand. Was he known to you? A. No. Q. A man of those attainments would certainly be pretty well known throughout the service, would he not? A. He definitely did not belong to my staff. [Page 1310] Q. You say you received no reports of the effects of this mass extermination because of the loss of manpower? A. Definitely not. Even if this report were true, it is obvious that such a report would not have been addressed to me, but it would have been addressed to a person concerned with manpower questions, for instance, Pohl, chief of the concentration camps, or to Himmler, because Pohl carried on production right inside the concentration camps. He was interested in manpower questions. If I ever had received a report like this, I would immediately have taken it to Himmler or Hitler, and I would have declared to them that things shouldn't be done this way. Q. The message that came, ordering the mass execution, read in the following terms: "By order of the RFSS [Reich Leader of the SS (Himmler)], the Jewish company in the camp Poniatowa is to be carried to its final conclusion." A. I have never seen any such order. Q. I will read you the description that Morgan gave as to what took place: "The proceeding was always the same. The night before the execution came the order to build very hastily shelters in zig-zag against air raids. In the early morning came troops and the execution began in these trenches. The prisoners had to leave their work and to attend in the neighborhood of the trenches. When their time came, they had to undress and naked, pass through the trench one after one in an infinite line. Coming to the first dead the victim had to lie down on the dead body and then was killed by a shot from a gun in the neck. This went on so long until the trench was filled and the last person was dead. Then the trenches were closed. The naked men had their own trenches, and the women theirs. Children were there with their mothers. None of the victims had been ill-treated before executions. All passed in a methodical, silent way. The troops formed only a cordon and had nothing to do with it. There had been a few German police, and the most were Ukrainian. On each place there were only two or three killers who were placed above the trench. Behind them were two or three other men who spent all their time charging empty magazines. So the executions were going very quick, and the responsibility was only in the hands of very few men." Here is a second sentence: "It was the old, tried system." Do you agree that it was an old tried system? A. I am not familiar with the method. Q. Further on, this report of Morgan's states that extermination had been so complete that there was at last nobody left to burn the cadavers, and it was only with great difficulty that they [Page 1311] rounded up enough Russian prisoners of war to do the burying. Did you know SS Sturmbannfuehrer Wippern, in command at Lublin? A. No. Q. What became of all the money, jewelry, and gold of the dead prisoners out of these camps? A. I don't know. Q. Didn't you ever receive any report as to what was done with these valuables? A. No. Q. You disclaim any knowledge of this incident that took place in the autumn of 1943 at Lublin? A. Yes. It is impossible that this report had been sent to me. I would have been to see Himmler or Hitler on the very first day; on the very same day. Q. When Morgan made inquiries into the reasons for the mass executions, he was told by the local Sturmbannfuehrer that this was top secret but that it had been ordered by Himmler himself, after a personal report by Dr. Kaltenbrunner. How do you account for that? A. Absolutely impossible. Q. What report did you ever make on the camp at Lublin, or camps holding Jewish inmates elsewhere, that contained any recommendation which would lead to extermination of these people. A. I have never in my life made any such recommendations. Q. That's all you have to say about it, is it? A. Yes.
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