Archive/File: imt/nca/supp-b/nca-sb-02-streicher.03-00 Last-Modified: 1997/12/08 Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression, Supplement B What Streicher Meant by "Extermination" Excerpts from Testimony of Julius Streicher, taken at Nurnberg, Germany, 17 October 1945, 1050-1250, by Col. Howard A. Brundage, JAGD. Also present: Siegfried Ramler, Interpreter; S/Sgt. William A. Wiegel, Court Reporter. [Page 1427] Q. So, summarizing your testimony, there was a change in the basic teaching, merely because you read a book written by a man named Kaufmann? A. Yes. One only has to read the edition of Der Stuermer that related to that and one can see that a tendency has been adopted which was far more radical. Q. Just briefly, what was the teaching prior to that time? A. Always the same. I have been asked before whether it was my point of view that I thought it right that a Jewish national state should be established. I can say now that between 1941 and 1943 -- I don't know exactly at what period -- we wrote an article in our paper, where we asked that Madagascar should be given to the Jews. The German Censorship Department in Berlin sent back the finished article -- I think it was already printed -- and did not accept it. This can be certified by my chief editor, Ernst Hiemer. Q. Did you approve everything that Hiemer wrote? A. I have had different journalists. Naturally, I did not approve everything, not every single sentence; that is clear. Q. Did you approve the articles as published in your paper? [Page 1427] A. Yes, certainly, mainly, yes. I want to amplify something in the question of Madagascar. There was an International Anti-Semite League. On every Reichsparteitag in Nurnberg, anti-Semites gathered in Nurnberg from America, from England, from South America, from everywhere. It happened every year. There, repeatedly the question came up regarding a Jewish National State. I want you to ask Mr. Rosenberg. Rosenberg, who was in charge of the ideological education, can certify that he has spoken about this question of Madagascar. Q. What about Palestine? A. Palestine is a request of the Zionist Jews. Theodore Herzl has been one of the most famous and greatest Jewish leaders. It was Herzl who caused the Balfour Declaration. Balfour, after the request of the Jews, has given a written declaration where he stated that Palestine should be given for the creation of the Jewish State. At the beginning of this war, discussions in this respect have taken place. Q. If I understand you correctly, you have at all times advocated the removal of Jews from Germany? A. Yes. Always on an international basis. I have always propagated in my paper that the Jewish question should be solved by the Jews forming a national state, just like any other nation, and should create a home there. Q. What mechanics did you advocate that should be used for moving Jews out of Germany? A. Whatever I have advocated publicly is here written down in my paper. I can declare under oath that there is nobody, not here in the prison or anywhere else, who can say that at any time I have been asked by the Fuehrer to discuss with him the question of the Jews. I can declare here that my paper was the only one which was not recognized by the Party. My paper did not bear the Party stamp of approval. All the other papers did. I have not been asked to take part in the discussions of the Nurnberg laws. Everybody can certify to that. Frick has been taking part in it, but I have not. Q. Now will you direct your attention to my question. How did you preach that the Jews were to be moved out of Germany? A. I have made no public suggestions. Q. Did you ever use the word "exterminate"? A. I think my chief editor used it once, and in this article he also cited Kaufmann. This must have been one of his last articles, of February or March -- I don't know exactly. He pointed out Kaufmann's request. I don't know exactly, but I do not believe that [Page 1428] I myself have ever used the expression "extermination." Had I only used the expression "extermination" now, the extermination would have happened already anyway, as I found out here in Mondorf. [See footnote, p. 1193 of this volume.] May I say something about that? It is quite a general explanation. I want to declare under oath that there might be gentlemen present here, I don't want to defend them, of whom it is supposed that they know about this question. I declare that they did not know about it. In Mondorf a Jewish officer came to me and presented to me an illustrated paper which had been published by Eisenhower. I declare here, I was terrified myself. I did not think it was possible. I want to give another explanation. The Fuehrer is dead. I respect the majesty of the dead. I am not the defense counsel of the Fuehrer. In December 1938, when I visited the prison in Landsberg, [sic] I spoke to the Fuehrer for the last time. I declare here that up to the year 1938 I have not heard the Fuehrer express the opinion that the Jews should be exterminated, either in an unofficial talk or in a Party official talk. Q. Did you ever use the word "liquidate"? A. No. Q. Did you approve the article that was written by Hiemer where he used the word "exterminate"? A. "Exterminate" and "destroy" are two different words in the German language. At the moment I am speaking about destruction. This word "destruction" was used by the Fuehrer. A report might have come from the Fuehrer, "The English or American company has been destroyed. There were so many prisoners and so many dead." In the German language, when I say that somebody's life should be taken, I would use either "killed" or "murdered," but I think "kill" would be the right expression. Extermination can result by sterilization, as Kaufmann wrote. The word "extermination" does not necessarily mean killing. Q. Now will you answer my question: Did you approve the article that was written by Hiemer? A. I believe yes. I have approved it, because he was my chief editor. He stated what different Jews had said, and referring to what Kaufmann, this Jew, has said, he also used the word "extermination." He just used it in one article. Q. Who became radical first? Hitler or you? A. I only know about myself. Q. When did you become radical? A. As soon as the book was published by Kaufmann, but we did not write anything about killing or murdering. [Page 1429] Q. Basically, what was the change that took place after you read the Kaufmann book? A. I think I have written that if the Jews want to exterminate us they should be exterminated, too. I think these articles should be presented to me. I cannot remember them in detail. Q. They will be presented to you in due time. A. Yes. Q. Is that the only time you ever made such a statement? A. I believe, yes. No letter and no correspondence exists in my file where I said or I suggested to anybody that Jews ought to be killed. Q. Do you accept any responsibility for the killing of Jews in concentration camps as a result of your teachings? A. Only such a person can testify to a thing like that, who is paid to falsify the truth. This is impossible. Here are the documents. The killings have been ordered from Berlin. Nobody in Germany would have carried through any killings without having received orders. Q. Do you remember on the 11th day of August 1938, that you gave the signal for the destruction of the main synagogue of Nurnberg? [See documents 1724-PS, vol. IV, p.224; 2711-PS, vol. V, p. 376.] A. No. No. I have not done that. Q. Do you remember that the issue of the Fraenkische Tageszeitung of 11 August 1938 came out with a banner headline "Julius Streicher Gave the Signal for the Destruction of the Main Synagogue of Nurnberg." A. I have not read this article, but I have already said that the main synagogue of Nurnberg has been removed by the Oberbuergermeister. Q. Do you remember seeing that edition where the entire four pages were taken up with pictures of yourself officiating at the ceremony and giving the text of your address, giving the order for the destruction of the synagogue? A. Even before the acquisition of power of Hitler in 1933, I have already made speeches and said that, in Nurnberg, "An oriental building in the middle of the town is a shame and it is high time that it disappeared." Q. Then you were there, and you did participate in that ceremony? A. Yes. We have also removed a Protestant church in Munich, [Page 1430] because it did not fit into the street. However, that has nothing to do with the 9th of November, with the burning of synagogues. Q. I didn't say it had anything to do with it. I asked you if you gave the signal for the destruction of the synagogue. A. Yes, for this synagogue, yes. Q. You then want the record to be changed where you said "No" the first time? A. At that time I thought you were referring to the burning of the synagogues. I mixed it up. Q. This article in substance says that "Many people are quite smug because the Jewish question in Germany is solved. The Jew is barred from civil life and politics. German blood is protected by the Nurnberg laws," and so forth. "Such persons," according to you, "are taking only a superficial view of the Jewish question. The German people will not be free of danger from the Jewish plague until the Jewish question is liquidated in its entirety. The danger of the plague infecting the German people will continue to exist as long as there is a seat of this pestilence anywhere in the world." A. This has nothing to do with killing. With that is meant that as long as a Jew anywhere in the world has the possibility either to mix sexually or acquire the power in the individual country. I beg to point to some other of my similar articles where I wrote, "as long as the power of the Jews is not broken," and these articles referred back to this time. Q. What do you mean by the word "liquidate"? A. I have not used the word "liquidate." Q. What is meant by that? A. No more sexual intercourse. No more political influence. No more possibilities for them to play off peoples against one another. Q. If you were proposing a safe haven for Jews, how do you consider that any seat of pestilence, as you say, can be cleared up? A. All this belongs to the solution of the whole Jewish question. Q. If you say there is a danger of the German people becoming infected so long as there is any place where Jews are in control, how did you propose to solve that question? A. The Jews are the only people that are distributed among all countries, and in spite of that, they have remained a people, a race, a unified religion, and a nation. There is only one solution, and this solution can only be arrived at in an international way by a conference of the big powers. In this state, they would be under their king or president, citizens of the state, and just like [Page 1431] any Chinese or Japanese, they could come into another country as members of their own country. This state would have the same international rights as every other state, with their ambassadors and delegations but the Jew would not have the right to make politics in another country as a member of a Jewish state. Q. Then you say that in connection with that particular article, that you didn't mean that the solution of the Jewish question would be the liquidation of the Jews? A. No. Q. Do you admit that the reading of that article permits that interpretation? A. Whoever knows all my writings and articles during my 25 years of journalism cannot have such an impression. Q. Why did you permit Hiemer to use the word "exterminate"? In view of this article of yours, that permits of some wrong interpretation. A. This is a way of expression which does not mean killing, but merely means exterminate them; get them out. At that time the article was read to me, but of course, I do not remember every detailed word.
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