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From: proud@tumby.com
Newsgroups: alt.history,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian,uk.media.tv.misc
Subject: Re: The revisionism of "The war of the century"
Date: 15 Nov 1999 00:30:20 GMT
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>    proud@tumby.com wrote...
>
>> Not really likely since Britain entered WW2 on behalf of the
>> Poles, not the Jews. This is a matter of historical record.
>> We didn't bat an eyelid during the thirties while Jews died
>> in Nazi concentration camps.
>
>     UK/US/USSR/Brazil... however they entered, they
>all left patting themselves on the dick with A Just War.

It was a Just War, the Justest War that ever was.

>BTW, up until the war, Nazis simply wanted Jews *OUT*. 

So why put them in concentration camps?  It seems a strange
way to encourage people to leave.

>IIRC, even on the "infamous" Kristallnacht, no
>Jews were killed.

Either you are a bare-faced liar or your sources are dodgy.

Martin Gilbert's THE HOLOCAUST, page 69:

	Kristallnacht-

	"In twenty four hours of street violence, ninety-one
	Jews were killed.  More than thirty thousand - one in
	ten of those who remained - were arrested and sent to
	concentration camps."

> This began only after the invasion of
>the USSR, when Judaeo-NKVD crimes were laid bare. 

Two lies in one.  The crimes were NKVD not Judaeo anything.  And 
many many Jews were murdered by the vile Nazis before the invasion 
of Russia in June 1941.

	"two or three months (after Kristallnacht) later, as many as a
	thousand had been murdered."

	"On November 23 the News Chronicle, a London newspaper,
	reported the arrival of sixty-two Jews, including two rabbis,
	at Sachsenhausen concentration camp, north of Berlin. At
	the gates, the police were hand them over to an SS unit.
	The sixty-two Jews were then forced to run a gauntlet of
	spades, clubs and whips.  According to eye-witnesses, the
	police, 'unable to bear their cries, turned their backs'.
	As the Jews were beaten, they fell.   As they fell they were
	beaten further.  This 'orgy' of beating lasted half an hour.
	When it was over, 'twelve of the sixty-two were dead, their skulls
	smashed.  The others were all unconscious.  The eyes of some
	had been knocked out, their faces flattened and shapeless."

	"The writer Dr. Geza Fischer was attacked in the street."
	"He was brought to the hospital half dead, and he died within
	a few hours.  His wife committed suicide."

	etc.  See Martin Gilbert's THE HOLOCAUST.  

Sept 3 1939, "As the German forces advanced, and within hours of
their occupation of a town or village, Jews were singled out for 
abuse and massacre by special SS groups acting in the rear of the
German fighting forces."

Well, I am sure it was uncomfortable for the germans to have the 
SS in their rear, a situation that was to persistent until 1945.

"a few hours after German troops had entered the frontier town of
Wieruszow, one of these SS groups siezed twenty Jews, among them
several prominent citizens, took them to the market place, and
lined them up for execution.  Among these Jews was Israel Lewi,
a man of sixty-four.  When his daughter, Liebe Lewi, ran up to
her father to say goodbye, a German ordered her to open her
mouth for her 'impudence', and then fired a bullet into it.  Liebe
Lewi fell dead on the spot.  The twenty men were then executed"

"Entering Piotrow itself on September 5, the Germans tried to
set fire to the predominantly Jewish section of the city, shooting
dead those Jews who ran from the burning buildings. After the
flames had died down, German soldiers entered a house which had
escaped the flames, took out six Jews, and ordered them to run.
As the Jews ran they were shot."

"In the first ten days of the German advance, such onslaughts 
against unarmed, defenceless civilians were carried out in
more than a hundred towns a villages."

"At the village of Widawa, home of one hundred Jewish families
the Germans ordered ordered the rabbi, Abraham Mordechai
Morocco, to burn the Holy books.  He refused, whereupon they
burned him, with the Scrolls of the Law in his hands."

"two hundred were driven into the synagogue, which was
then locked, and set on fire"

"thirty five Jews were arrested in the communal baths, taken
to the slaughterhouse, and then burned alive.  Another
twenty were burned alive in the synagogue."

There are many example of this kind, taken from Martin Gilbert's
THE HOLOCAUST, chapter 7 The Trapping Of Polish Jewry.

Chapter 8, 'Blood of Innocents', indicates clearly that 
the Nazi violence in Schindler's List was actually underplayed.

"Of the eighteen hundred Jews who has set off from 
Hrubieszow, more than fourteen hundred where murdered that day.
The surviving marchers had been given nothing but a small bread
roll each.  Seeing a fifteen-year-old boy without any food at
all, a fellow marcher threw him a piece of his own roll.  When
the boy bent down to pick it up, he was shot, by the commander
of the march himself"

I weep bitter tears that I was born so many years too late
to take a hand in emasculating Nazi Germany!  

>See
>     http://www.ukar.org/mclell07.shtml#Part1
>for some of the horrors uncovered in the Ukraine.

I know what was done in the Ukraine by the communists.  It
wasn't just in the Ukraine; it was the lower Volga basin
as well.  

>                      
>
>> ... Wall Street crash ... thirties ... Spitfire
>> ... early part of WW2 ... 1940 ...

"Achtung Spitfuer!"  I hope you haven't forgotten what that means.

>     Revolutions are made by *PEOPLE*, using whatever
>hardware comes to hand and Hitler was a uniquely charismatic
>*PERSON*, 

Ja Adolf Hitler, der Führer der Dummköpfe und der alten Frauen!

>who started early enough for NATIONAL Socialism
>(rather than Judaeo-Bolshevism/INTERNATIONAL Socialism)

Once again, the Bolsheviks were not Jewish, in fact they purged the
Jews:

Robert Conquest THE GREAT TERROR

page 65:

"Somebody among the Bolsheviks remarked jokingly that since the
Mensheviks were the faction of the Jews and the Bolsheviks that
of the native Russians, it would be a good thing to have a pogrom
in the party."

The civil war ruined Russia, and Lenin had to return to capitalism
(The NEP).  This meant that the Bolsheviks lost face, leaving the
way open for their rivals for power, the Mensheviks and Socialist
Revolutionaries.  The typical Bolshevik answer was to purge the
(Jewish) Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries, hence the 
idea that the Bolsheviks contained Jews or were Jewish is absurd.

>to be in a position to exploit the debauch of Germany's currency
>in the *TWENTIES* and to see off copycat Jewish-led uprisings
>all over Central/Eastern Europe, from Rosa Luxemburg (Germany)
>to Bela "Kun" (Bela COHEN, Hungary).

These socialist uprisings were led by *PEOPLE*, not Jews.

>> They may have been ex-Jews, since Judaism was a popular religion
>> in Russia before the revolution (and presumably this accounts for
>> the preponderance you cite above - assuming it is correct, and I
>> have no reason to believe you) but Judaism was surpressed like other
>> religions after the revolution, so if they were Jews they did not
>> practice Judaism, and evidently didn't feel very much for Judaism since
>> Marxism makes it clear that religion is a nonsense designed to distract
>> the masses: they would be taking part in the suppression of their
>> own identity, which doesn't make much sense, does it?
>
>     *THEY* knew who they were is what mattered and *THEY*
>formed the critical mass that made Bolshevism possible. 

and if they abandoned their culture, specifically adopting another,
that overwrote Judaism (i.e., communism) then they were not Jews.
Really, you are as bad as Mrs. Londhe claiming that Hitler's 
"GottGlaubig" means that Nazis were Christians.

Anyway, as we have seen the Jewish Mensheviks were purged by the
Bolsheviks.

>It is
>only diehard religious bigots (God's "Chosen" supremacists) who
>deny this, hoping to go on milking their holocaust forever, 

Or defending the true historical record of their immolation
forever.

>along with
>others peddling their own unsavoury agendas with all this Jewish
>"victimhood" crap.

My agenda is the defence of British culture preferably in an
offensive way that annoys our critics.  It is intended to be
unsavoury, and it is a response to the years of hatred I have
endured from Brit-haters on Usenet.  

>     I'll leave you with another quote about Bolshevism:
>
> "Immediately after the Revolution, many Jews were euphoric
>  over their high representation in the new government.

The operative word being "immediately", that representation was
quickly and substantially eroded as the Mensheviks (mainly
Jewish) were purged by the Bolsheviks (mainly non-Jewish).

>  Lenin's first Politburo was dominated by men of Jewish
>  origins. 

viz., ex-Jews, not Jews.  Then they were purged, long before the
atrocity of the Ukraine.  The phrase "Judaeo-Bolshevik", which
seems to mean a great deal to you, is an oxymoron, and even by
your own reference has little meaning in the context of a crime
which occurred decades after the formation of the first Politburo.

>  Under Lenin, Jews became involved in all aspects
>  of the Revolution, including its dirtiest work. 

Communism supersedes Judaism.  They could not practice Judaism under
communism since there was no allegiance allowed beyond the state.
They were no more Jews than the ex-Christians involved in the
Revolution were Christian.

>  Despite
>  the Communists' vows to eradicate anti-Semitism, it
>  spread rapidly after the Revolution - partly because of
>  the prominence of so many Jews in the Soviet administration,
>  as well as in the traumatic, inhuman Sovietization drives
>  that followed. 

Well obviously the russian communists aren't going to blame
themselves for their idiotic revolution; they needed a
scapegoat, and Jews are always convenient for that.

>Historian Salo Baron has noted that an
>  immensely disproportionate number of Jews joined the new
>  Bolshevik secret police, the Cheka, perhaps in subconscious
>  retaliation for the many years of suffering at the hands of the
>  Russian police. And many of those who  fell afoul of the Cheka
>  would be shot by Jewish investigators."

And you seriously expect this to be a justification for The
Holocaust?

>    (Israeli historian, Louis Rapoport, "Stalin's War Against
>     the Jews", New  York: 1990, pp. 30-31, 37, 43-45, 49-50).

One final note.  Notice that the lefts and their adherents, who 
constantly attack Brits of moderate political beliefs, have 
nothing to say about this.  They are only concerned with 
calling retired Labour voters "rabid rightists" and whingeing
about a cabal.

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