From firstname.lastname@example.org Tue Apr 9 19:56:39 PDT 1996 Article: 30349 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!warwick!news.coventry.ac.uk!leofric!abels From: Nele Abels
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Repost: Rudolf Hoess describes the burnings Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:09:52 +0100 Organization: Coventry University Lines: 175 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: leofric.coventry.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: abels@leofric Bert Brecht said that it is justified to say a thing for the thousand and first time, just to ensure that is not said one time to little. On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Matt Giwer wrote: > >My point is that, apparently, numerous corpses of the victims > >(of the Allied bombing of Dresden) were burned, and they > >were burned in exactly the same fashion in which "revisionists" > >claim it was impossible to burn the corpses at Birkenau. I will > >try to get these photos of the corpse burning in Dresden and > >post them. > Actually the Birkenau reports are of an indeterminate mixture of > flammable liquids and nothing else. > ># Obviously there were > ># tons of wood laying around to throw on the pyres. > >And there was no wood in the vicinity of Auschwitz? > None is reported to have been used. This thread starts getting on my nerves. The historical evidence of corpses having been burnt is overwhelming, but okay: Let's see what Lagerkommandant Hoess wrote on that topic. Oh yes, I forgot, he was tortured into writing his testimony. But let's just assume that the notes of the psychiatrist Dr. Gilbert were not a cunning part of the Jewish conspiracy, which show Hoess' strange and sterile willingess to be extremely helpful with the examinations already in the Nuremberg trials, long before the Polish trial against him. This, by the way, arouse strong consternation in the rows of the accused Nazi-criminals. Let's do the same with Broszat's brilliant analysis of the validity of the text which can be found in the introduction (esp. pp. 8-11). And let's also forget that Hoess could possibly have no reason to lie about architectural and technical details and that it would have been very difficult for the Jewish conspirators to provide Hoess with an adequatly elaborated script. Anyway, that's what he wrote: I am using the following edition: "Kommandant in Auschwitz: Autobiographische Aufzeichnungen von Rudolf Hoess", Hrsg.: Martin Broszat, Stuttgart: Deutsche Verlagsanstalt, 1958. The English translation is by my humble self. (Oh yes, of course I'm falsifying, that needs no further mentioning, does it?) "Already the first attempts of burning in the open showed that this method could not be used in the long run. In bad weather or in strong wind the smell of the burnings was spread over kilometres which lead to the public in the vicinity speaking of Jew-burnings in spite of the counter propaganda of the party and of the administration." "Schon bei den ersten Verbrennungen im Freien zeigte sich, dass auf die Dauer dies nicht durchzufuehren sei. Bei schlechtem Wetter oder starkem Wind trieb der Verbrennungsgeruch viele Kilometer weit und fuehrte dazu, dass die ganze umwohnende Bevoelkerung von den Juden-Verbrennungen sprach, trotz der Gegenpropaganda von seiten der Partei und den Verwaltungsdienststellen." (S. 139) This and the objection of the air-defense who oppsed nightly burnings in the open, lead to the accelerated introduction of crematories. "The two big crematories I and II were built in Winter 1942/43 and started working in spring 1943. They both had five 3-chamber ovens and could burn in 24 hours est. 2000 corpses each. It was not possible to increase the burning capacity due to technical reasons. Experiments resulted in severe damage which lead in multiple cases to complete stops of the work. The two crematories I and II had changing and gassing rooms below ground, which could be ventilated. The corpses were transported with a lift to the ovens which were located above." "Die beiden grossen Krematorien I und II wurden im Winter 1942/43 gebaut und im Fruehjahr 1943 in Betrieb genommen. Sie hatten je fuenf 3-Kammer- Oefen und konnten innerhalb 24 Stunden je ca. 2000 Leichen verbrennen. Die Verbrennungskapazitaet zu steigern, war feuerungstechnisch nicht moeglich. Versuche fuehrten zu schweren Schaeden, die mehrere Male zum gaenzlichen Ausserbetriebsetzen fuehrten. Die beiden Krematorien I und II hatten unterirdisch gelegene Auskleide- und Vergasungsraeume, die be- und entlueft werden konnten. Die Leichen wurden durch einen Aufzug nach den oben befindlichen Oefen gebracht." (S. 160) Hoess continues to describe the smaller crematories III and IV which had a capacity of 1500 in 24 hrs each and illustrates the problems resulting >from the material shortage due to the war. This lead indeed to severe problems in burning the masses of murdered people, as most revisionists claim. The two smaller crematories proved to be used beyond their capacity and were often out of order: "It could be seen soon that the less heavy construction of the ovens, they were each 4-chamber ovens, could not meet the demands. III was completely out of order after a short time and later could not used at all. IV had to be taken out of work for several times because after a short burning time of four to six weeks the ovens or the chimney were burnt out. In most cases the gassed were burnt in ditches behind crematory IV." "Es stellte sich aber bald heraus, dass die leichtere Bauart der Oefen, je zwei 4-Kammer Oefen, den Anforderungen nicht gewachsen waren. III fiel nach kurzer Zeit gaenzlich aus und wurde spaeter ueberhaupt nicht mehr benutzt. IV musste wiederholt stillgelegt werden, da nach kurzer Verbrennungsdauer von vier bis sechs Wochen die Oefen oder der Schornstein ausgebrannt waren. Meist wurden die Vergasten in Gruben hinter dem Krematorium IV verbrannt." (S. 160) Hoess then describes the process of the burning in detail: "Regarding the nature of the bodies, up to three corpses were put in one oven chamber. Also the length of the burning was dependent on the nature of the bodies. On average it took 20 minutes. [...] The ashes dropped during the un-interrupted burning through the grates and was taken away and ground continuously. The ash-powder was taken with a lorry to the Weichsel where it was thrown with shovels into the stream and where it dissolved and vanished at once. The same was done with the ashes from the burning ditches at Bunker II and the crematory IV." "Je nach Koerperbeschaffenheit wurden bis zu drei Leichen in eine Ofenkammer gebracht. Auch die Dauer der Verbrennung war durch die Koerperbeschaffenheit bedingt. Es dauerte im Durchschnitt 20 Minuten. [...] Die Asche fiel waehrend des ohne Unterbrechung fortgestzten Verbrennens durch die Roste und wurde laufend entfernt und zerstampft. Das Aschenmehl wurde mittels Lastwagen nach der Weichsel gefahren und dort schaufelweise in die Stroemung geworfen, wo es sofort abtrieb und sich aufloeste. Auch mit der Asche aus den Verbrennungsgruben bei Bunker II und Krematorium IV wurde so verfahren." (S. 167) Unfortunately Hoess does not describe exactly how the burning in the ditches was done. But on the other hand, this again is a proof for the authenticity of his remarks. Somebody forcing him to construct a falsified history would have been careful to provide him with plausible methods. His casual tone of his description does not allow the conclusion of a falsification. He gives following remarks on the work of the Jews at the ditches. By the way, in this context he deals not with the process of gassing in the first place, but discusses the mentality of the Jewish work groups. This would make an assumed forgery much more subtle than the intellectual level of Hoess, as visible in the text, would allow: "The work to keep the fire in the ditches going, the pouring of the collected fat on the heap, the poking in the mounds of corpses to provide air." "Das Unterhalten des Feuers bei den Gruben, das Uebergiessen des angesammelten Fettes, das Herumstochern in den brennenden Leichenbergen, um Luft zuzufuehren." (S. 126) The burning in Treblinka is described more accurately. Here, and not in Auschwitz, as Mr. Giwer correctly states, wood is used for the fires: "After one hour the chambers were opened, the corpses were pulled out, stripped naked, and burnt on a pedestal of rails. The fire was fueled with wood, the corpses were then and there poured with the remains of petrol." "Nach einer Stunde oeffnete man die Kammern und zog die Leichen heraus, entkleidete sie und verbrannte sie auf einem Schienengestell. Das Feuer wurde durch Holz unterhalten, die Leichen ab und zu mit Benzin- rueckstaenden ueberschuettet." (S. 165) What is to be concluded? Indeed some of the technical problems put forward by the revisionists are true and also mentioned by the contemporary reports. But these existing problems do not allow the conclusion that massive killings did not take place. On contrary, the problems occured because so many people were murdered. Revisionists describe very accurately the struggle of the SS against the seemingly impossible: to kill as many people as possible and to get rid of the corpses in a time of fuel and material shortage. But to conclude that since this struggle was so difficult, the problem was non-existing is ridicilous and illogical. The same line of argumentation can be applied to the gassings. It is true that gassings with motor-exhausts were unreliable and slow. But nethertheless they took place, as I will prove another time. Will somebody teach all these brilliant scientists eventually historical methodology? I would not dare to teach Mr. Giwer engineering. Why does he think, that he can teach us how to write history? It is not that simple, even if history "is only words"...
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